Creative Reviews discussion
?'s for the Members of CR
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The importance of negative reviews?

I follow GR's rating system too, although most follow their own standard, particular 5-starring books to include the "kinda like it" ones. It's interesting to see how some readers are easy rater and others hard to please.
We readers don't mind if you rate your stuff 5-stars, I used to be irked by at it but then I realize authors need every help they can get, even if it mean using their own vote. It's not as if once you're an author, you stop being a reader and lose your reader's rating right. =)
@ Kirk
Well, it's debatable whether negative reviews can hurt a sale. It's important on Amazon because they use it in their algorithm to see how much publicity your book should get. But on Goodreads? I don't think so since Goodreads is cataloguer, not a retailer.
There's a school of thought that silence is the worst thing an author can received on her books, more so than negative reviews. After all, who among us readers would be brave enough, pocket-money enough to try out a new book without reviews or rates, let alone a new author — hell let alone an *indie* author.
I can understand your feeling. I been there myself. I don't want to look ungrateful but I don't want to compromise my honesty. Pity acclaims, imo, are bad as negative reviews.
#
I feel bad for authors. It's like once you start being an author, you stop being a reader or something. As if your reviews are now reviews as a fellow author, not as a reader — which is absolutely ridiculous imo. I don't like censorship when it comes to reviews, and authors should be able to review books just as much as readers. I think it's fine if an author thinks their books are better than someone else's, I mean most people think their stuff — be it books or hobbies or whatever — are the best anyway. Every parents who have their baby think their baby is the best baby ever (as if someone is going to say your baby is ugly, unless that ugliness is a health issue then it needs to be said and dealt with).
Experiment wrote: "@ Georgina
I follow GR's rating system too, although most follow their own standard, particular 5-starring books to include the "kinda like it" ones. It's interesting to see how some readers are e..."
Silence would hurt. There's nothing worse than the thought that your stories are uninteresting. Hate, like or love--people are reading them.
Self-rating still confuses me. To me a five star rating means a book that will remain with me throughout my life, something truly amazing. Maybe one day I might rate one of my books as a five star (I'm hoping my novel will be amazing, after the developmental editor, rewrites and a copy editor--we'll see) but not now. I do love and nurture my babies but I believe in tough love (not with my real children of course!).
I don't have an issue with authors rating their own books highly, I often agree with them. But I don't enjoy pitching my books and I don't really want to. So I'll have to leave it to people stumbling across them and hopefully liking them. But the Shiny Little Stars (no matter how many) do draw people in and the lack of them is silence.
I follow GR's rating system too, although most follow their own standard, particular 5-starring books to include the "kinda like it" ones. It's interesting to see how some readers are e..."
Silence would hurt. There's nothing worse than the thought that your stories are uninteresting. Hate, like or love--people are reading them.
Self-rating still confuses me. To me a five star rating means a book that will remain with me throughout my life, something truly amazing. Maybe one day I might rate one of my books as a five star (I'm hoping my novel will be amazing, after the developmental editor, rewrites and a copy editor--we'll see) but not now. I do love and nurture my babies but I believe in tough love (not with my real children of course!).
I don't have an issue with authors rating their own books highly, I often agree with them. But I don't enjoy pitching my books and I don't really want to. So I'll have to leave it to people stumbling across them and hopefully liking them. But the Shiny Little Stars (no matter how many) do draw people in and the lack of them is silence.

To be completely transparent, I started my review by saying that the subject matter of this book was far outside my normal reading genres, and also stated that the writing was good and the book was interesting (it was non-fiction).
Now, in my 'rating' system, 3 is good and 4 is great. So in fact, by rating the book 3 1/2 it wasn't even a neutral review, it was good, almost great. But the author didn't perceive it that way, which I find quite interesting. After all, if I was told by my boss I was doing a 'good' job, I would consider that positive feedback.
What does everyone else think of neutral reviews? Do they put you off the book, or is it helpful?

A 4, for me, is above average, or very good. Several aspects of it may be great, but I would need all of it to be great, AND affect me emotionally, psychologically, etc, for me to give it a 5.

What do you think about my new policy for Amazon reviews? I've heard from a ton of authors, but I'd love to hear from more readers.

Like I once saw this book that had good reviews and then a few one stars. All the one stars was because they said the book was a children's book. The funny thing was clear that the book promoted itself as a children's book.
Other times a low review might dislike a book, because of something I might find interesting. Mostly though, I just pick a book because of the blurb and if I'm on the fence or what a little more detail on the book I look over the reviews.
One thing I wanted to ask, as an author, I don't ever comment on my reviews. I really want to say thank you to everyone who read and reviews, even the ones who didn't like the book, but I'm worried to do so. I noticed that many authors, even the ones that are polite and sincere, are accused of being snarky for even simple thank you. So what do you do in that sort of situation? Do most author not reply to comments? Do readers just prefer for authors not to acknowledge their reviews?

I do appreciate when an author stops by and thanks me for my review - particularly when it's a book I've reviewed on my blog, as I've also put a little of my own heart and soul into it :), but it's not something I routinely expect. It's more of a pleasant surprise - authors who show me a little love get some in return by me checking out their other work.


On your last point, commenting on reviews, I never comment on reviews of my books by readers who are not themselves authors. The latter I thank and sometimes ask for additional feedback (whether the review was positive or negative). This has led to some relationships and friendships I value as well as valuable feedback. I don't do this with pure readers because I don't want to seem, as some have said, snarky and don't want to intrude on their reading experience. If they seek me out (as some have done), fine and I'm more than glad to interact with them.

See my prior response to R.E. Bloggers are something else. If a blogger contacts me to do a review or an interview, I always respond but do not always agree - it depends on whether the nature of the blog is in sink with the kind of books I write.

Consider reading this review policy: http://www.ilona-andrews.com/2011/01/...
Or the author suffered a sudden bout of masochism and went to trawl blogs and Amazon for reviews. A response to positive reviews is easy enough to formulate. Thank you! But what about negative reviews, the ones that make you cringe? Equally easy. Say nothing. Say nothing, say nothing, say nothing.Granted the author is a NYT-bestseller and instantly get reviews the day a book is out — no, I am not exaggerating, their fans are that fanatic — but the author do make some good points here. It's very hard to respond to reviewers, and if you do respond, almost always both sides will end up throwing pots and pans at each other.
But what if they said this unfair thing…
Say nothing.
But they brought up a really good point…
Say nothing.
If you argue with the review, you look unprofessional. You are a weakling who can’t take criticism.
If you agree with the review, you look unprofessional. You are sucking up in hopes of future positive reviews.
You can’t win. Remember the guiding principle: if you are an author, everything is your fault. You can’t show that you are emotionally hurt or angry. You are not a person. You are a representative of a brand. If you have to say something, if you just can’t help yourself, say, “Thank you.” You must find your inner customer service representative, smile, and say, “Thank you so much for taking the time to read the book.”
I recently came across two events earlier this month where authors commented on reviewers. One author talked about how some reviews were useless and weren't to her liking, as if she was the be all end all judge of all things review. *roll eyes* She instantly ended up on some readers' blacklist. Another author commented very professionally and apologize to the reviewer for failing to entertain the reviewer, and this author still got some flack.
Authors, contact reviewers at your own risk. Some of us are receptive to you, others... not so much and one wrong word can cause the reviewer to start a boycott campaign against your books. If you're mainstream, you can handle it; if you're indie, it's the kiss of death for you. I know I know, authors are people too and can make mistakes. But here's the deal, every day new books are released. Even if people stop making new books, we still got countless books to last for a long long long time. So much books, so little time to read them. That's why we readers have to be selective, and authors who behave badly — thanks for letting us readers know who to avoid. Our money and time will go to a more deserving author.
It is better safe than sorry to not contact reviewers unless they initiate the contact with you, imo.
@ Kat
Following Goodreads' rating system, I neutral-rate book as 2-stars. 'Cause 2-stars book on Goodreads means "it was okay". Yeah, most authors don't see it that way too. I guess it's because they're used to people who are easy raters but when they come across raters like me, people who rarely hand out 4-5 stars, they're not very happy. These authors are so used to getting compliments that when they do not get one, it is as if that one non-compliment somehow eclipse all the rest. I think it's human nature, it's easier for us to focus on the bad things than on the good things.

Great advice, thanks.
I'd be happy enough with a 3.5. I recently had a 3.5 rounded down to 3, star review. It was extremely well written and I happen to agree with the reviewer in her opinion on the strongest and weakest of the short stories. 3 stars is 'I like it', it's 2 stars that's the neutral 'o.k'.
I had a Goodreads friend review one of my short stories recently. She gave it 3 stars. I was delighted. She's right, it's the weakest of my stories, and now I know I can trust that she is honest in her feedback (and I feel great about the four stars she gave to other stories!).
I agree that I'd never, ever respond in any way to a negative review. I can't see the point. If the reader missed the gist of the story, didn't fall in love with the characters, didn't like the writing style--that's their valid opinion.
And rudeness is the kiss of death, not just for indies.
A couple of articles of interest on the issue of the importance of politeness (L.T is my former agent, I think her points are very valid):
http://www.angelaslatter.com/i-am-lis...
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/0...
I had a Goodreads friend review one of my short stories recently. She gave it 3 stars. I was delighted. She's right, it's the weakest of my stories, and now I know I can trust that she is honest in her feedback (and I feel great about the four stars she gave to other stories!).
I agree that I'd never, ever respond in any way to a negative review. I can't see the point. If the reader missed the gist of the story, didn't fall in love with the characters, didn't like the writing style--that's their valid opinion.
And rudeness is the kiss of death, not just for indies.
A couple of articles of interest on the issue of the importance of politeness (L.T is my former agent, I think her points are very valid):
http://www.angelaslatter.com/i-am-lis...
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/0...

I like getting feedback from the authors because it helps me keep a balanced perspective. I've made my name on snarky reviews, but I also have a degree in literary criticism. Both ends of response are valid, depending on the work being reviewed, but it helps to hear what authors and other readers think, too.

However if the reviewer has asked for information, I like to answer where possible - if it's a neutral or good review I'll leave it as a comment.
Bad reviews- if it's a random review I'll probably not comment but if it's a requested review and I have their contact details I might have the conversation just to see how their idea of what it should have been differs from mine. Might ignore it, might consider it, but at least that way I know what their point was.
I wouldn't do that in the public forum though, I don't think, because even if the reviewer and the author are trying hard to keep it impartial, there are always other people who will find aggro where no aggro was supposed to be, and that's just a recipe for trouble.
JAC

To answer a question, a rating of three does not help much, in my view. As an author, I feel that a three is bad.

I disagree about 3 ratings. I'm happy to get them because it means the reader enjoyed my book. They also lend credibility to the range of ratings my books get. Finally, a 3 is the most common rating I give as a reader because I enjoy most books I read and only want to signal that the book was more than good with a 4 or extraordinary with a 5.
Lee wrote: "Debra wrote: "I always feel bad if a reviewer says that they did not like my genre. I certainly don't expect them to read something that is not up their alley. I would rather they said they do not ..."
I'm happy with a three too, it means the reader liked it. A rating of two stars would feel a little grim.
I'm happy with a three too, it means the reader liked it. A rating of two stars would feel a little grim.


A comfort read puts it very well. Sometimes it's nice to be able to read for pure entertainment without a wow factor. I read quite a few of such books. They are 3s and I'm glad to spend my money on them. I hope there's something more to my books, but if I can attract a fan base that sees them as comfort reads, I will be thrilled.
Damali wrote: "A 3 is a comfort read. You're not expecting to be blown away, but you are entertained, and there's obviously several things you enjoy about it. You can read it on the beach, or while on the ellipti..."
Exactly. But if we are viewing a three as a negative review, then it changes the meaning of the entire system. Then four is more like 'I liked it' and five becomes 'I really liked it' so where do we put the 'amazing' books? Or do the two last ratings become blurred?
Exactly. But if we are viewing a three as a negative review, then it changes the meaning of the entire system. Then four is more like 'I liked it' and five becomes 'I really liked it' so where do we put the 'amazing' books? Or do the two last ratings become blurred?


3 is a C and 4 is a B. A 4 can never mean "I liked it," because 5 is the last choice. There's a lot of room between like and love.
I don't know what the problem with the scale is.
5=A
4=B
3=C
2=D
1=F
It's subjective, that's why most people do the half stars. It's just like a grade in school, and that's worked out pretty well, since forever. :)
Damali wrote: "3 isn't negative. 3 on GRs means "I liked it."
3 is a C and 4 is a B. A 4 can never mean "I liked it," because 5 is the last choice. There's a lot of room between like and love.
I don't know what ..."
Yes, but I remember that my parents were never too happy to see any 'C's' on my report cards. :) Georgina.
3 is a C and 4 is a B. A 4 can never mean "I liked it," because 5 is the last choice. There's a lot of room between like and love.
I don't know what ..."
Yes, but I remember that my parents were never too happy to see any 'C's' on my report cards. :) Georgina.
Damali wrote: "I was smiling from ear to ear when I got my Cs in Physics and Trig in college. :D"
Just doing Physics and Trig in college is an achievement! I had to finally grasp physics when I studied photography, but maths (which you need for photography too)...
Just doing Physics and Trig in college is an achievement! I had to finally grasp physics when I studied photography, but maths (which you need for photography too)...


"Regardless of whether the book was written by a new or established author, being positively reviewed significantly increased sales; a positive review generated between a 32% and 52% percent increase in demand [...] In contrast, estimates indicate that the effect of negative publicity depended on existing author awareness [...]. For books by established authors, a negative review led to a 15% decrease in sales (this estimate is slightly imprecise due to the relatively small sample size). For books by relatively unknown (new) authors, however, negative publicity has the opposite effect, increasing sales by 45%."Food for thought.
In other words, bad reviews hurt established authors, but any reviews—good or bad—helped relatively unknown writers, boosting sales by almost half. The study’s authors cite this example:
— http://fictionwritersreview.com/blog/...

"Regardless of whether the book was written by a new or established author, being positively reviewed significantly increased sales; a positive review genera..."
Surprising.
Experiment wrote: "I thought this was interesting to read:
"Regardless of whether the book was written by a new or established author, being positively reviewed significantly increased sales; a positive review genera..."
Very surprising, but I like it!
"Regardless of whether the book was written by a new or established author, being positively reviewed significantly increased sales; a positive review genera..."
Very surprising, but I like it!

It is different when the book is published by a small print-on-demand publisher or self-published. The book may not have been well checked out for quality. If such a book gets a bad review, it is not a terrible thing. Not everyone will like it, no matter how good it is. However, if such a book is getting repeatedly bad reviews and low ratings, it might behoove the author to work on it further, hire a better editor and make a second edition. It could probably be a better book than the one that gets repeatedly low ratings, and what author does not want good ratings?
There are some reasonably priced online courses for writing and getting published. Author Barbara Kyle teaches such a course (I have not taken it, so am not able to recommend it, but she does sell a lot of books.) This is her site: http://www.barbarakyle.com/. I barely know her from Twitter, and I did a giveaway for her months ago. In other words, no real affiliation.
Debra wrote: "It was to do with exposure. Even if your book was given a bad rap, people heard of it for the first time. The above blogpost was talking about reviews in the Times, so the readers knew it was a boo..."
I wrote my first blog yesterday (attached to my website).
http://www.georginaannetaylor.com/1/p...
It concerns publishers and why I chose to go the indie way and what a great pool of resources we now have in terms of editors, beta readers, etc. (This is not a pitch--no mention of my own books, but an overall statement about the rise of indie authors).
Other than the prestige, I'm not sure publishers can offer more than I'm getting now. I'm not looking for one anymore, and I'm feeling a lot happier within myself now that I've made that decision.
I wrote my first blog yesterday (attached to my website).
http://www.georginaannetaylor.com/1/p...
It concerns publishers and why I chose to go the indie way and what a great pool of resources we now have in terms of editors, beta readers, etc. (This is not a pitch--no mention of my own books, but an overall statement about the rise of indie authors).
Other than the prestige, I'm not sure publishers can offer more than I'm getting now. I'm not looking for one anymore, and I'm feeling a lot happier within myself now that I've made that decision.

http://feralintensity.com/2012/01/05/...
Emme wrote: "I really like this blog post by G.L. Drummond on negative reviews:
http://feralintensity.com/2012/01/05/..."
A good article, Emme.
These three points struck a cord with me:
'-You cannot tell readers how to feel about your books.
-Behave like a professional (actually, better than some of the ‘professionals’).
-Don’t react emotionally.'
http://feralintensity.com/2012/01/05/..."
A good article, Emme.
These three points struck a cord with me:
'-You cannot tell readers how to feel about your books.
-Behave like a professional (actually, better than some of the ‘professionals’).
-Don’t react emotionally.'

http://feralintensity.com/2012/01/05/..."
Good link. I like to share this as well: http://www.ilona-andrews.com/2011/01/...

http://feralintensity.com/2012/01/05/..."
A good article, Emme.
These three..."
There's some major, major trauma of a drama going on right now, this very minute and second, on "When Authors Attack Readers"... I don't want to give the impression of spreading drama, so just be safe, does anyone wants links to these, uh, drama? It's happening right here on Goodreads. I don't know if it's the water or the impeding apocalypse of 2012, but a few YA authors decided to start the new year disparaging readers.

I'd like that link, Experiment. Thanks.
Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Emme wrote: "I really like this blog post by G.L. Drummond on negative reviews:
http://feralintensity.com/2012/01/05/..."
A good article, Em..."
Yep. I'd like the links too. Drama is always good to watch--from a distance ;) (that's a smile with a wink, if anyone is wondering).
And I'd like to clarify that although I'm saying 'I'm an Indie Writer and I'm Saying it Loud and Proud', I'm certainty not against anybody doing it differently. Peace to all!
http://feralintensity.com/2012/01/05/..."
A good article, Em..."
Yep. I'd like the links too. Drama is always good to watch--from a distance ;) (that's a smile with a wink, if anyone is wondering).
And I'd like to clarify that although I'm saying 'I'm an Indie Writer and I'm Saying it Loud and Proud', I'm certainty not against anybody doing it differently. Peace to all!

Case 1: Kira versus Krokos
The Stage: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
The Offending Author: Dan Krokos
Moral of the Story: Authors are authors first and foremost in readers' mind. Do not ever delude yourself into thinking you can "defend" against a book on a negative review as a "fellow reader."
Good books defend themselves.
Ironic enough, the author Julie Cross whose book was criticized by the reviewer Kira was gracious enough to accept the negative review. Even though they didn't enjoy her book, they complimented her and said she was a classy dame if they ever saw one. The other authors who were against reviewers... well, they were battered with the metaphoric rotten tomatoes.
Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Emme wrote: "I really like this blog post by G.L. Drummond on negative reviews:
http://feralintensity.com/2012/01/05/..."
A good article, Em..."
And isn't it too soon to get caught up in the apocalypse mode? Months and months to go on that one. Time to have our t-shirts made, which such helpful slogans as 'I'm One of the Chosen. Beam Me Up!'.
Or am I being distasteful? We humans do love a good doomsday theory...
:) Georgina.
http://feralintensity.com/2012/01/05/..."
A good article, Em..."
And isn't it too soon to get caught up in the apocalypse mode? Months and months to go on that one. Time to have our t-shirts made, which such helpful slogans as 'I'm One of the Chosen. Beam Me Up!'.
Or am I being distasteful? We humans do love a good doomsday theory...
:) Georgina.

The Stage: http://www.goodreads.com/user_status/...
The Offending Author: Leigh Fallon
Moral of the Story: Naming-calling is a no no. Quite frankly, if authors are going to vent, best to do it in person with friends rather than over an email where it can get "leaked"...
I put quotation marks over the word leaked because I don't believe it was the author's intention for that email to be private between close friends when her message clearly show she wanted her fanbase to vote down negative reviews on Amazon, effectively censoring them because Amazon deletes anything and everything that gets enough down-votes.
For the sake of disclosure, Ms. Fallon did apologize later on.

The Stage: http://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_...
The author deleted her more recent, disagreeable replies and some comments, so not entirely the full story there.
The Offending Author: Jamie McGuire
Moral of the Story: Authors, if you're going to defend your fans, do it without disparaging reviewers. Do not go on twitter and disparage some more.
http://twitter.com/#!/JamieMcGuire_My favorite commenter is SubterraneanCatalyst
Jamie McGuire @JamieMcGuire_ 1 Jan Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Dear Online Review Sites: Please stop telling readers what the characters in my books will
Jamie McGuire @JamieMcGuire_ 1 Jan Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
"likely" start doing. If you want to write a book - do so. Stop trying to write mine.
I agree that freedom [of speech] is a priority. I also think authors should be able to say whatever it is that they want. But is it wise to criticize reviewers? In most cases I would say not. But if an author does so, then she or he will reap the consequences good or bad.*Paragraph indentations are my own
I also agree with what Ilona Andrews said about an author's position and it's certainly uncomfortable and unfortunate that an author cannot blatantly "defend" their work without it seeming unprofessional. It's only really worth it if it is a matter of disputing technical details such as veracity if it is nonfiction or if plagiarism is suspected for example. Since most 'user reviews' are subjective — there is very little real reason for an author to address them unless they are reaching out to their fan base and saying something positive. If they do anything else they are despoiling their own public image and that is just the truth.
Whether its "fair" or not. This is the same issue with a myriad of other professions in the world, news reporters can't yell at the audience, actresses usually can't scream at the camera without being labeled as asses, and for a reason.
There are more good comments but I can't post them all without breaking this thread. =P

The Stage: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
The Offending Author: Danielle Weiler
Moral of the Story: Reviews are not for authors, they're for other readers. And apparently a 3-stars review is not good enough for this arrogant author. Entitled, much? And it wasn't even her book that was being reviewed. Geez louise. *facepalm*

Georgina wrote: "Yep. I'd like the links too. Drama is always good to watch--from a distance ;) (that's a smile with a wink, if anyone is wondering)."
Y'all wishes have been granted; I did warned y'all. All four cases happening just this week. And please, please, please, whatever you do, do not antagonist readers & reviewers further (even if you believe they're totally wrong as heck). Your moment of a satisfaction in biting back is just that, a moment.
ETA: Actually three cases this week, one case last week. But you get the idea. =P
Experiment wrote: "Debra wrote: "I'd like that link, Experiment. Thanks."
Georgina wrote: "Yep. I'd like the links too. Drama is always good to watch--from a distance ;) (that's a smile with a wink, if anyone is won..."
This is sad, scary stuff--for everybody who's involved.
As a writer it makes me nervous about writing. Seriously. My fantasy series was labeled 'YA' but it's not, none of my characters are supposed to be role models for anyone. Is that our job?
But for an author to attack reviewers? Name calling is not on, not for any reason, what-so-ever.
Maybe you're right, Experiment, there's something in the air at the moment? Maybe we all need to take a chill pill and go out into the sunshine for a while.
My motto, and one that I have raised my children with is:' Long Live Difference!'
Writers, readers, reviewers, bloggers, lets stand (politely) united in what we all love-books!
(No way I'm going near those arguments! Ahh, I hate angst-ridden confrontations!--except from a distance--a lot like snakes really)
Georgina wrote: "Yep. I'd like the links too. Drama is always good to watch--from a distance ;) (that's a smile with a wink, if anyone is won..."
This is sad, scary stuff--for everybody who's involved.
As a writer it makes me nervous about writing. Seriously. My fantasy series was labeled 'YA' but it's not, none of my characters are supposed to be role models for anyone. Is that our job?
But for an author to attack reviewers? Name calling is not on, not for any reason, what-so-ever.
Maybe you're right, Experiment, there's something in the air at the moment? Maybe we all need to take a chill pill and go out into the sunshine for a while.
My motto, and one that I have raised my children with is:' Long Live Difference!'
Writers, readers, reviewers, bloggers, lets stand (politely) united in what we all love-books!
(No way I'm going near those arguments! Ahh, I hate angst-ridden confrontations!--except from a distance--a lot like snakes really)

I wanted to add that tolerance for other peoples opinions also extends to faith and religion, and therefore I'm sorry if I caused offense with the 'beam me up' comment. But I won't delete it, (unless it really did offend!) as it was intended as a joke. :)

Hey, no trouble at all. I'm glad to satisfy your and Georgina's curiosity. And no need to read it all, the whole matter is just one unpleasant package to swallow. Bleh.
Silver lining side, I found authors who are actual professionals and will be reading their books.

yes, difference is what makes this world beautiful and tolerance is the only way to be happy in it! :-)
Long live difference and tolerance! :-D
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It is hard. I've decided I'd rather find books, read them because they look interesting, write reviews if I'm really impressed and not if it doesn't feel right. I've done this with the last four or five books, nobody is expecting anything, nobody is hurt.