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Could Obama Be Headed For a Landslide?
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If I could just be completely honest for a second this news is so depressing. The republican candidates suck and frankly I am not all that impressed with the incumbent. Really it all just sucks!
This is not the Republican party of my youth. We had a bunch of elected Republican state representatives shouting at the election commission of New Hampshire trying to get the President off the ballot because he is not an American. They are nuts. What's depressing for me is why liberals are going down the anti-Obama road. I still don't get it. I just love the man.
Especially when you consider how truly scary the alternative...
I understand why people are angry at Obama, but I think people expected too much. He started out with an agenda that kept getting shot down. Then mid-term he got an obstuctionist Congress to work with. Now I understand that the Democrats are thinking of dropping the millionaire surcharge. All I can say is, "NOOO!!!"I hope you all write to your congresspeople to protest. I did as soon as I saw that on the internet.
Drop the millionaire surchrge??!! The thing that is really wrong with American politics is the amount of money which can be poured into the coffers of the political parties and the amount of money which is needed to stand for President at all. Controlling all that would vastly improve your system and free it from a lot of corruption IMO.
Jimmy wrote: "What's depressing for me is why liberals are going down the anti-Obama road. I still don't get it. I just love the man."
Didn't I explain this on another thread?
Didn't I explain this on another thread?
Jimmy wrote: "What's depressing for me is why liberals are going down the anti-Obama road. I still don't get it. I just love the man...."i, too, love the man. but not the president. i think he is a very poor negotiator -- always giving up what he thinks the GOP wants before they even ask for it.
MadgeUK wrote: "Drop the millionaire surchrge??!! The thing that is really wrong with American politics is the amount of money which can be poured into the coffers of the political parties and the amount of money ..."Of course that's wrong. There's a lot that's wrong. Unfortunately, it's really difficult to get these systematic items fixed when no one wants to focus on them.
Naomi wrote: "i, too, love the man. but not the president. i think he is a very poor negotiator ..."Very true, too nice perhaps. He negotiated too much away at the beginning of his term, compromising when he did not need to do so because he had a majority. Sometimes you just have to go for it!
MadgeUK wrote: "Very true, too nice perhaps. He negotiated too much away at the beginning of his term, compr..."at first i thought it was the case that he was trying to be "fair" and give the GOP what he thought was equitable before they even asked for it. but he's a very intelligent man, and i don't believe that he hasn't learned that tactic doesn't work. so i have to believe that he is only giving up what he wants to give up -- right from the start. that's a sad conclusion to reach
What people seem to rarely mention is that the Senate Republicans forced the Democrats to get 60 votes to pass anything because of the filibuster. That has never happened in my lifetime. Here's a story from another decade: Clinton passed a tax increase that ended in a 50-50 vote with Al Gore having to give the tie breaking vote. Newt Gingrich predicted economic collapse. The economy boomed. Such a vote can no longer happen.
And Donegal, you explained why you were not supporting him. That doesn't mean I'm suddenly supposed to change my opinion about what happened while he has been president. What should be something for our country to be immensely proud of--the election of a president whose dad was born in Kenya--has ended up in great disappointment for me because of what the Republican party has done to his administration.
Naomi: Being intelligent does not necessarily make him a good politician or tactician and I believe he has shown himself to be inept politically, perhaps because he is too intelligent and takes a too academic approach? Politics is a tough game and not for the fainthearted.Jimmy: Post 12 - why is such a vote no longer possible? I empathise with your disappointment:(.
Jimmy wrote: "What should be something for our country to be immensely proud of--the election of a president whose dad was born in Kenya--has ended up in great disappointment for me because of what the Republican party has done to his administration."
And I'm saying that it's not just something that's been done to him; he has been complicit in some of the worst aspects and actions of his administration. Yes, it's incredibly unfortunate that even the meager health care bill he got through is under constant attack by right wingers and it's wonderful that we, for the most part and against the wishes of many Republicans, are finally getting out of Iraq, but Obama was not forced by partisan politics to execute by drone strike 2 American citizens, nor was he coerced into detaining without charge Bradley Manning.
You say you don't understand the anti-Obama attitude of some liberals. I say I don't understand how one can look the other way and speak as though these and other horrific negations of civil and human rights aren't happening or important.
And I'm saying that it's not just something that's been done to him; he has been complicit in some of the worst aspects and actions of his administration. Yes, it's incredibly unfortunate that even the meager health care bill he got through is under constant attack by right wingers and it's wonderful that we, for the most part and against the wishes of many Republicans, are finally getting out of Iraq, but Obama was not forced by partisan politics to execute by drone strike 2 American citizens, nor was he coerced into detaining without charge Bradley Manning.
You say you don't understand the anti-Obama attitude of some liberals. I say I don't understand how one can look the other way and speak as though these and other horrific negations of civil and human rights aren't happening or important.
You say you don't understand the anti-Obama attitude of some liberals. I say I don't understand how one can look the other way and speak as though these and other horrific negations of civil and human rights aren't happening or important.I think it is very understandable Donegal - he has failed spectacularly on these fronts and the weak health care bill was both an early failure and an indication of what was to come:( If he does get a landslide (though I doubt it) perhaps a large majority will put some fire in his belly.
I agree with Jimmy. Yes, these things were not just done to him. Nevertheless, despite all the roadblocks, there have been some accomplishments. I don't think it's an all or nothing question. Some things have gone ok and others have not. The meager health care law took 100 years to get through. No one else was able to get anything. We did finally leave Iraq- a place we shouldn't have been to begin with. And he's had to fight the Tea Party et al just to keep the social safety net weak as it is from being totally dismantled which at least it hasn't. Case in point, even extending unemployment benefits has to precipitate a brinksmanship fight in the Senate. So I don't give Pres. Obama a 0. Maybe a 55. I gave Bush a 0 and I think his Republican opponents would also get a 0.
MadgeUK wrote: "Naomi: Being intelligent does not necessarily make him a good politician or tactician and I believe he has shown himself to be inept politically, perhaps because he is too intelligent and takes a t..."you're right, of course, Madge. it takes a lot more than intelligence to be a good politian (although, honestly, shouldn't that be a start? don't the republicans think that intelligence should be a requirement? but i digress) my point was that if he were stupid, i could understand that he continued to use a failed strategy. the fact that his negotiating technique hasn't changed means that he doesn't really want to push for the results he claims to want.
Madge, he needed 60 votes in the Senate to pass the health care bill to avoid a filibuster by the Republicans. That means they had to desperately get the last few votes. For example, the "blue dog democrat" Senator Nelson from Nebraska forced them to put in a special clause to benefit Nebraska. When it became public, Nelson backed down. It was a desperate effort to get those last few votes. If it could have been a simple majority of 50 votes and the vice presidential tie breaker, we could have done so much more. Why are liberal Americans having so much difficulty understanding this? It has been a deliberate effort by the Republican party to get back the White House at all costs. And I stand by that statement.
It is simply incorrect to blame the Republicans for all of Obama's failures.
- Bradley Manning
- Guantanamo Bay
- drone strike assassinations
NONE of these were caused by Republican obstructionism, and ALL of them are, in my opinion, heinous violations of liberal principles and values.
- Bradley Manning
- Guantanamo Bay
- drone strike assassinations
NONE of these were caused by Republican obstructionism, and ALL of them are, in my opinion, heinous violations of liberal principles and values.
Donegal wrote: "It is simply incorrect to blame the Republicans for all of Obama's failures.- Bradley Manning
- Guantanamo Bay
- drone strike assassinations
NONE of these were caused by Republican obstructionis..."
i was appalled when President Obama told somebody (at a white house function, i believe) that Private Manning was guilty. this was a year ago! at that time he'd been held for 6 months without even a hearing and the *PRESIDENT* was declaring him guilty.
yes, the Obama administration has had to deal with the republicans, but there are plenty of issues where we were hoping for, even expecting, a FIGHT from the democrats and they just rolled over.
Naomi wrote: "i was appalled when President Obama told somebody (at a white house function, i believe) that Private Manning was guilty. this was a year ago! at that time he'd been held for 6 months without even a hearing and the *PRESIDENT* was declaring him guilty."
From what I understand, Manning's lawyers are trying to have the case dismissed because this event may have made it impossible for him to receive a fair trial. I'd like to live in a world where that would work, but I fear that I don't. I'm starting to think justice is an extinct beast in America.
From what I understand, Manning's lawyers are trying to have the case dismissed because this event may have made it impossible for him to receive a fair trial. I'd like to live in a world where that would work, but I fear that I don't. I'm starting to think justice is an extinct beast in America.
I often wonder about these type of well known cases where it seems that everyone knows about them and must have an opinion. I wonder how they find an impartial jury. It sometimes seems impossible, but I guess there are a lot of people out there who don't pay any attention to what's going on in the world. I think the people in this group myself included are more well-informed and more opinionated as well.
I agree that the President stepped into a mess but I think he started a lot of his issues. When he came in to office he would have been smart to regulate the banks deal with the issues of the central bank, and HUD he would have had the pubic support and the timing was perfect. Instead he went off on the healthcare bill tangent why the final bill was awful and probably will be overturned by the Supreme Court this spring. Mean while the banks have more power than they did a year a go with less regulation. Not to mention while they did repay TARP they turned around and borrowed money at a lower rate.In terms of the bi-partisan politics he should have played a better game go after what it is you want then compromise, instead he compromises first then again later.
Other things that drive me nuts is the lack of effort in controlling the federal governments size nor creating better methods of accountability...still riding off of Clinton/Gore and a little of Bushes policies.
On another not did anyone read about the rise of sexual assaults in military schools but no one is doing anything about it.
If he is re-elected I hop he will grow a pair and act like he is in charge.
Lisa wrote: "I often wonder about these type of well known cases where it seems that everyone knows about them and must have an opinion. I wonder how they find an impartial jury. It sometimes seems impossible, ..."Sadly people do not read and it is shocking what people do not know.
I agree that Obama's performance has been lacking, especially in the area of human rights. As a country we've done these things at least since Eisenhower's administration, but they used to be covert and are now out in the open. However, the alternative is abhorrent! My main concern is that liberals will be so disenchanted that they won't vote. I hope Obama stays in office, but more importantly (to me) I hope we can take back the house and not lose the Senate.
Change takes time and the pendulum swings. I can only hope that the extreme right of the Republican party has been exposed and the majority of Americans can see that it's gone too far.
Agreed, Obama has not been what we hoped for and has done things wrong. Nevertheless, the alternatives out there are horrible! We will all have to vote to re-elect him.
While I agree that it's important to at least vote for the sake of one's Congressperson and Senators, I'm honestly having trouble imagining how the Republican candidate (likely to be Romney) would do much worse. I suspect they'd have the same policies, the only difference being that Romney would be more flagrantly abusive as he wouldn't have to wear a mask of false liberality.
He would be surrounded by Republicans and would have to bend to the Republican right wing base of the party. The health care bill would probably be repealed and who knows what would happen to abortion rights.
Are we returning to the days of Ralph Nader? He still won't admit he did anything wrong in two elections. He just helped to get G W Bush elected. Let's not make the same mistake again.
I would be very suspicious of candidate as religious as Romney because of the policies the religious right hold dear on abortion, homosexual rights etc. Beware!
A Republican win will allow the GOP to once again believe that they have a "mandate" and believe me, they will take advantage of it! The results will be devastating to human rights worldwide.
I agree and coupled with the current Coalition government in the UK, who are sympathetic towards the Republicans (a la Margaret Thatcher/Reagan) it could be devastating for the UK and our sphere of influence too.
While I can see how he might cause trouble with abortion rights (though nowhere near the level of damage that Ron Paul would do), I don't think he is dedicated enough to pro-life politics to really accomplish much, especially if we're fortunate enough to have a Democratic majority in Congress. I also can't imagine that he'll do much to damage gay rights; again, I don't know that he's dedicated enough to the anti-gay movement to fight the uphill battle of reinstating DADT and he certainly can't do any less than Obama in terms of advancing gay marriage rights.
I guess the question with Romney is, would he revert to the relatively moderate politics of his previous political office or would he continue catering to the far right?
I'm by no means saying that I would support Romney, let alone any of his Republican running mates. I just don't see how he could be much worse than Obama.
I guess the question with Romney is, would he revert to the relatively moderate politics of his previous political office or would he continue catering to the far right?
I'm by no means saying that I would support Romney, let alone any of his Republican running mates. I just don't see how he could be much worse than Obama.
Aren't you forgetting that he isn't just Romney but that he is heading up the Republicans and TPartyists?? Combined they are much worse than Obama:(.
If Republicans wake up next Nov. 7 to see that their extremist-obstructionist posture of the last four years has only reelected a president who started the year below 50 percent (as he will) and whom they should have been able to beat, then they might finally return to earth.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles...