Dune
discussion
what is the best order to read the Dune books in?
JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "S wrote: "JT wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That's a trick question as there's only one book in the Dune series :3"And there you have it."
I don't understand...."
Ah, I see what you're saying. Still, it sounds like you did read the others. Did you not see any value in reading them, if nothing else because of the way they fleshed out the entire prescience premise?
Matthew wrote: "JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "S wrote: "JT wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That's a trick question as there's only one book in the Dune series :3"And there you have it."
I don't ..."
Was there value to reading them? Yes. Was it greater than the annoyance? It's very close, but on the balance, probably not.
JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "S wrote: "JT wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That's a trick question as there's only one book in the Dune series :3"And there you hav..."
Well we agree on the quality (or lack thereof) of the books that followed Herbert's original six. I take it you read Hunters and or Sand Worms too? And if so, please convey in the most visceral, unapologetic terms possible what you thought about them.
Matthew wrote: "JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "S wrote: "JT wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That's a trick question as there's only one book in the Dune series :3"And th..."
Frankly, I have blocked them out. I seem to remember something about Cat people and Aquatic, armored sandworms, and something like the junction of Tlielaxu and Salacious Crumb, but details evade me, thanks be to the most high. The quality of writing harkened back to Brain Herbert's second (I think) novel, the aptly named "Garbage Chronicles".
Still a better love story than Twilight.
JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "S wrote: "JT wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That's a trick question as there's only one book in the Dune se..."Yes, it's a shame when children don't live up to the expectations we, the reading public, place on them. But then again, it's an even bigger shame when untalented writers who just happen to share a brilliant writer's name decide to pimp out a venerable franchise for all its worth!
1. Dune2. Dune Messiah - Not as good as Dune but still worth reading
10. Children of Dune thru Chapterhouse Dune, written by Frank Herbert, not nearly as good as Dune Messiah but at least readable.
999999. Anything written by BH/KA - Unreadable. The only time they might be of value is if you need them for kindling to start a fire so you can read the original Dune.
Alberto wrote: "1. Dune2. Dune Messiah - Not as good as Dune but still worth reading
10. Children of Dune thru Chapterhouse Dune, written by Frank Herbert, not nearly as good as Dune Messiah but at least readab..."
The older I get, the better I like God Emperor. I used to think that Heretics was the next best one after the first, but God Emperor has gotten ahead of it in my personal estimation.
Isaac wrote: "A shame of a sentiment, imho God Emperor of Dune is just as good as Dune. Really though, I'll always be disappointed that no one is bothering to reprint the rest of Frank Herbert's novels. They..."
God Emperor is a strong runner up, but, IMO, still a big step down from the original. Perhaps a re-read is in order.
As for the rest of his work, there are a couple I need to get to yet, but I'm thinking that they could do worse than reprinting Whipping Star and The Dosadi Experiment.
JT wrote: "Isaac wrote: "A shame of a sentiment, imho God Emperor of Dune is just as good as Dune. Really though, I'll always be disappointed that no one is bothering to reprint the rest of Frank Herbert's..."
They are his next best after Dune (1). I love Jorj
God Emperor is certainly the last of Herbert's readable Dune books.
S wrote: "God Emperor is certainly the last of Herbert's readable Dune books."God Emperor is a sociological treatise poorly disguised as SF.
Peter wrote: "S wrote: "God Emperor is certainly the last of Herbert's readable Dune books."God Emperor is a sociological treatise poorly disguised as SF."
You misspelled "The Dune Series"
I have read all nineteen books. The six original ones were very good. However I found GE Dune very confusing even after re-reading it. Brian's books are brilliant. They fill in a lot of the questions I had about the Butlerian Jihad and they make a lot of sense. I love DUNE and I cannot get enough. The next book is going to be the Navigators of Dune and I cannot wait. Give all of the books of Dune the respect they deserve.
I found Brian Herbert's writing to be very poor in comparison. He abandoned most of the themes that his father explored in the Dune novels. If you want pulp action and violence and just want to have a good 'ol time in the Dune universe with all sorts of good guys killing bad guys and bad guys killing good guys and plenty of intrigue and betrayal, then BH is somewhere between average and good.
If you want books that explore the human condition and wrestle with the same themes Frank Herbert brings up (the dangers of hero worship, the manipulative nature and moral failure of those who would call themselves heroes, the flexible but overpowering nature of the natural world, the inevitability of the future, etc.) then Brian Herbert's writing is atrocious.
He uses the setting of the Dune universe just fine for what he wants to use it for, but extremely poorly for its originally intended use.
JT wrote: "Peter wrote: "S wrote: "God Emperor is certainly the last of Herbert's readable Dune books."God Emperor is a sociological treatise poorly disguised as SF."
You misspelled "The Dune Series""
Where? Certainly not in this stub.
"Give all of the books of Dune the respect they deserve." I think we do. It's just that most of us are less than impressed with Brian's treatment of his father's universe.
DuneDune Messiah
Children of Dune
After that read the reviews and follow your interests.
I liked Heretics and the Dune Houses.
Hamish wrote: "Dune then Dune MessiahIf you go past those 2 the quality really starts to drop off."
This is where I stopped too.
I have been looking around the web and have made an interesting observation. I find that many people are scared to read DUNE because of its size. I have read the original six novels and near the end it was difficult to follow. Frank Herbert left decades and then thousands of years between his novels. What happened between the novels ?? GE DUNE was very hard to understand and I thought everytime Leto II would talk, please keep it short and understandable. I feel that those of you who have not read all the books by Brian are being unfair. They follow the Herbert tradition of telling a great story. Granted Brian is a different writer because he is not his father. Where Frank would go of on a number of tangents and cofuse the heck out of us, Brian stays on the golden path. I find it gratifying to finally KNOW what happened in the past. All those years will finally be revealed to us and we as readers will be happy. I DO NOT REGRET reading one word of this amazing series and will continue to do so. All I am asking is that before you guys jump on the I hate Brian's work bandwagon, actually read them and please do not listen to anyone else. To gain courage say the following mantra, " I shall not fear, fear is the mind killer!!".
My issue here is that as a scholar of philosophy, and of occult literature, I can with confidence state that Frank Herbert was by far the most cultured science fiction writer to grace us with his work. For example, several names are direct copies of demon names from 15th century grimoires, attached to surnames taken from texts explaining the philosophy behind the concept of demon summoning. His concepts behind the truly consciousness altering effect of OVER dosed psychadelic experience, and how it advances the understanding of life... none of these things were commonly in print in his day, the psychadelic movement hadnt even begun to consolidate their learning into such cohesive ideas and systems to implement them such as mentats and the bene gesserit. (essentially frank herbert projected terrence mckenna x100) Further, the masonic concept best discussed in aleister crowleys now banned (by the OTO) and almost impossible to obtain(currently 400 dollars, id screenshot the page im discussing but i sold my copy! lol) Appendices to the original OTO rituals of "creating gods" for the common people to follow as a way of shaping history was so elegantly laid into the bene gesserit that it at times shocks me even though Ive read them over and over. Frank herbert said more about these things in his subtext than he ever said about "science fiction" tropes. I say all of that to paint the background for, and qualify a quite simple snapshot conclusion:Brian Herbert & Kevin Anderson might be science fiction writers, but they'll never in their wildest dreams grasp society, and the human condition, or the LHP concepts of human deification, or social engineering in the way Frank Herbert did. so for someone like me who recognizes and digs into these aspects of a story, nothing will ever meet or surpass what he did. So, regardless of order, if you read the way i read, prepare to be disappointed by the novels that came from somewhere other than Frank Herberts imagaination.
On a somewhat side note: Star Wars is hailed as a grand mythology of epic porportions: but no one mentions that the whole basis of one of the main characters, and most beloved characters, Han Solo, wouldnt exist if he wasnt A SPICE SMUGGLER. Why does no one ever mention this? Because most star wars fan wouldnt even be able to grasps Frank Herberts books, so those that know, see no need to really point it out as it only brings uninformed backlash from george lucas worshippers. Star wars is (no offense im a huge star wars fan, but truth is truth) science fiction for dummies, just like the non-frank dune books, whereas Frank Herberts work does approach the level of a coherent mythological tale based on an actual understanding of the concepts involved.
So to make it short and sweet: Best order to read the books is based first of all on whether or not you want to read stuff that is unable to reach the depths of Franks work alongside his work, or you would rather spare yourself the step down?
Daoine wrote: "My issue here is that as a scholar of philosophy, and of occult literature, I can with confidence state that Frank Herbert was by far the most cultured science fiction writer to grace us with his w..."The Kevin Anderson book Jedi Search is a total rip off of Dune! Han and Chewie (yeah, I'm a huge Star Wars fan too) go to Kessel and are forced to mine spice. It's glitterstim spice, and it heightens psychic powers. There's a monster in the mines that kills people, and guess what? It turns out to be a worm like beast and it actually produces the spice. I guess it could be an homage, but I think they at least should have made some kind of joking comments that allude to its similarity to Dune.
Daoine wrote: "My issue here is that as a scholar of philosophy, and of occult literature, I can with confidence state that Frank Herbert was by far the most cultured science fiction writer to grace us with his w..."Frank was up there with the best, but Silverberg, Ellison, Disch, Zelazny, Asimov, Bester, Bradbury, Vance, Wolfe, Le Guin, and 3 dozen others give him a run for his money in depth of cultural literacy.
And excellent work to read is Medea: Harlan's World, which started as a round table, including Ellison and Herbert and Silverberg and several others, and turned into a book of short stories about the world they designed in the seminar. Brilliant stuff, but the neat thing is seeing the byplay between the authors. Herbert might have (OK, was) a genius author steeped in the arcana of the western canon, but he was (o far as one can tell from their conversation) an humorous, prickly SOB.
Genius writer, though. A favorite.
I guess my true problem is age - I started reading them as they were published which, as we well know now, is not a true order per se. I am not averse to moving back and forth through time, but I have lost track of what I last read by publication date. . .so many with the newer covers look different to me and, having started reading a couple already and realizing I've read them. . .(synopsis did not jog my memory), I am perplexed on what to do. At Emerald City Comicon today in Seattle there were, apparently, even newer books (collaborations) I had not seen. Thoughts? Suggestions? HELP!
Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune. If you must - God Emperor, Heretics and Chapterhouse. Then STOP.I'm fairly sure (100%) the order that the six written by Frank were the order they were published in.
I have no idea what publication order his son's cashing in have. Nor do I care.
Thanks - I think Heretics is the one I have yet to read. Read all the "house" books by family & "Chapter"
Ann wrote: "Thanks - I think Heretics is the one I have yet to read. Read all the "house" books by family & "Chapter""I have gone through them all recently. Honestly, Brian and Kevin are no where near the writing prowess of Frank Herbert. But they do have their moments!
And by all means, do check on God Emperor! It may not snatch you away like the original Dune (none of them really do) but it does grow on you as you read it. It's one of my favorites now.
Here is the in-universe chronological reading order, the story makes more sense this way (pediod names are of my making :p) :
Machine Wars Period:
* The Butlerian Jihad
* The Machine Crusade
* The Battle of Corrin
Buttlerian Period:
* Sisterhood of Dune
* Mentats of Dune
>> There will be a new book on this period
Muad'dib Era:
* House Atreides
* House Harkonnen
* House Corrino
* Dune
* Paul of Dune
* Dune Messiah
* The Winds of Dune
* Children of Dune
Golden Path:
* God Emperor of Dune
* Heretics of Dune
* Chapterhouse Dune
* Hunters of Dune
* Sandworms of Dune
Dune is by far the best of all books. Everything by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson is not exactly on par, BUT it doesn't mean it's bad. Take it for what it is (as in, don't try to compare) and they become easier to get along. There are actually really good moments and some fine plot twists (as well as terrible blunders - but hey, no book is perfect, not even Dune!).
Ann wrote: "Thanks - I think Heretics is the one I have yet to read. Read all the "house" books by family & "Chapter""Ann, stick to the originals. That's my advice. If you venture into Brian/KJA territory, you will either be getting regurgitated material (which isn't bad if you're looking for more of the same) or their own absurd take on the Butlerian Jihad and Kralisec. I'll give you a hint, they are related! :)
Diego, you got the order right, but the best way to go is read the original six by Frank Herbert in their chronological first. After that, read the Brian Herbert/KA books in their order. There's a reason that Frank Herbert left all those thousands of years between the later books. Keep it pure!
Yes, and would could make the case (I would be one of them) that Brian and KJA only wrote these interquels (as they call them) to further exploit the Dune franchise's name. Having felt that they had exhausted all the prequel and sequel material, they turned to books that fell between the originals - before going back to prequels again.
Hamish wrote: "Dune then Dune MessiahIf you go past those 2 the quality really starts to drop off."
Agree completely. Don't bother with the others.
Don't bother with any of the sequels. I have not taken my advice, mind you.
Jonesmikey, yeah I suppose!And I have to retcon something about Brian/Kevin. It's not that they work is not on par. Their writing style is differnt.
But while Frank focus on political and ecological issues, B/K give us a strong argument about the many issues blind faith and the manipulation of it brings.
So, sorry Brian. Sorry Kevin. Now kill those damn Buttlerians in some gruesome way. :)
Diego wrote: "Campbell wrote: "Hamish wrote: "Dune then Dune MessiahIf you go past those 2 the quality really starts to drop off."
Agree completely. Don't bother with the others."
I still think that it takes a second read to trully appreciate Dune as a series. So please, do read them and then read them again. You'll probably find Dune is just like a fine wine: Better with time.
Matthew wrote: "Yes, and would could make the case (I would be one of them) that Brian and KJA only wrote these interquels (as they call them) to further exploit the Dune franchise's name. Having felt that they ha..."
One could argue that and one would be very likely right... :)
I have read the full set several times. Dune was worthy of the accolades it got. The rest rapidly descended into money-making. The B&K are a cynical money-making venture. And neither consistent nor well written.Try the Jorj books - Whipping Star, The Dosadi Experiment.
Or any of Frank's stand alone novels and shorts.
Peter wrote: "...Try the Jorj books - Whipping Star, The Dosadi Experiment..."I heartily endorse this.
When i first read this series of books it was a nightmare. i had to figure out which book went were and it was not much fun but this is the order i would recommend them.- The Butlerian Jihad
- Machine crusade
- Battle of Corrin
- House Atredies
- House Harkonnen
- House Corrino
- Dune
- Dune Messiah
- children of Dune
- God emperor of Dune
- Heretics of Dune
- Chapter House
i don't know past that as that was where i had stopped at the time
Thomas wrote: "When i first read this series of books it was a nightmare. i had to figure out which book went were and it was not much fun but this is the order i would recommend them.- The Butlerian Jihad
- Ma..."
If you want to spend the time reading the Brian Herbert ones, and the ones listed aren't a total waste of time, just not as good as Frank's, I recommend moving Dune though Chapter House to the front, and then reading the Backstory ones. And then, if you're a glutton for punishment, the ones that wrap the story.
JT wrote: "Thomas wrote: "When i first read this series of books it was a nightmare. i had to figure out which book went were and it was not much fun but this is the order i would recommend them.- The Butle..."
I agree first the Frank Herbert books and if you are really a fan you can read the other books by his son.
I've read Dune, Dune Messiah, and .My advice is read the Dune, then stop. Frank Herbert has written other sf; Dune may have been his best work, but its sequels were not.
Here's the official chronology. as for now Navigators is not on the list but finishes the great schools trilogy. http://www.dunenovels.com/articles/of...
Nice link and website; thanks for posting.
I wanted to try this saga, so I went chronologically.First I read all about the distant past and the battle against the machines, I really enjoyed this:
- The Butlerian Jihad
- The Machine Crusade
- The Battle of Corrin
Then I went for the immediate past, and I loved those even more:
- House Atreides
- House Harkonnen
- House Corrino
Then I got to read what Frank wrote himself, and was awed:
by Dune itself
In between I read Paul of Dune and The Winds of Dune
Then I did Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, but when I got to God Emperor of Dune I found I was extremely bored by now and couldn´t finish the saga
I know I'm missing Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune to finish Frank's saga..
And also Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune to read the close up by Brian and Kevin
Plus, Sisterhood of Dune, Mentats of Dune and Navigators of Dune..
I really don't mind reading a lot, I'm currently on my 7th re-read of the Ice and Fire Song by GRRM, so neither size, nor deep worldbuilding overwhelms me..
But honestly, I would like to start all over, so is there any other order that won´t bore me? Or God Emperor is just a heavy book to go trough?
Thanks!
Read the 6 Frank heebert books without his sons books. They are pure Dune and worthy of being read on their own.
Tomás wrote: "I wanted to try this saga, so I went chronologically.First I read all about the distant past and the battle against the machines, I really enjoyed this:
- The Butlerian Jihad
- The Machine Crusa..."
I would warn you not to read Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune. They not only do a crappy job of wrapping up Frank's original work, but they don't even honor it. They drastically change the ending in order to make it accord with their own work from the Legends of Dune series, which wasn't even based on Frank's original work.
Tomás wrote: "I wanted to try this saga, so I went chronologically.First I read all about the distant past and the battle against the machines, I really enjoyed this:
- The Butlerian Jihad
- The Machine Crusa..."
The first time through God Emperor was hard work for me too. I think I was 15. I re-read it again in my late 20's and found it to be one of the two or three best of the series. It has a very different approach than the rest of Frank's Dune series, and can feel turgid if you don't approach it differently.
I tend to view God Emperor as one of the best works of the series. It is critical to have read the other original series books in order first, but GE delivers a powerful ending like a true Greek tragedy. I agree with reading the original 6 first, if this is the first reading of the series done. Then going in chronological order, with a re-reading of the original 6 when their place is reached, would greatly enrich the experience I think.
Matthew wrote: "Yes, and would could make the case (I would be one of them) that Brian and KJA only wrote these interquels (as they call them) to further exploit the Dune franchise's name. Having felt that they ha..."Orson Scott Card, referring to his own work, calls them "midquels".
Pius wrote: "I have been looking around the web and have made an interesting observation. I find that many people are scared to read DUNE because of its size. I have read the original six novels and near the en..."DUNE is not that long-about 500 pgs. It is, however, exceptionally dense.
My two cents: here's the order in which I read them: (I left off the "Of Dune" in my list)Hunting Harkonnens (Short Story)
Butlerian Jihad
Machine Crusades
Faces of the Martyr (SS)
Battle of Corrin
Sisterhood
Mentats
Navigator (haven't read yet)
House Atreides
House Harkonnen
House Corrino
Paul (Chapters 2, 4, 6)
Wedding Silk (SS)
Winds (Chapter 2)
Dune
A Whisper of Caladan Seas (SS)
Paul (Ch 1, 3, 5, 7)
Winds (Ch 4)
Road to (SS)
Messiah
Winds (Ch 1, 3, 5)
Children
God Emperor
Heretics
Chapterhouse
Sea Child (SS)
Hunters
Treasure in the Sand (SS)
Sandworms (reading as of Jan 2017)
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And there you have it."
I don't understand."
I think he's ..."
Hence the precipitous dropoff.