Dune
discussion
what is the best order to read the Dune books in?
IMHO, just read the first one and skip the rest.
The simple(and BestIMO)answer is the order in which they were published. Also, for me it is all over with the passing of Mr Herbert. Call me a purist, but it was his series, his story, for me, when he passed Dune ended.
I would read the original novels in order, and then the prequel novels, in order of publishing. That is what I did, and I very much enjoyed them.The stuff written by Herbert jr, and Anderson do not make it near the level of penmanship, themes and grandeur that Fran's novels did, but unlike many, I don;t think they're bad books, and they get better depedning on how much of a fan you are, unless you hold the originals as holy.
If you enjoy the universe I, unlike many would very much recommend the newer novels. They are not as good, but still enjoyable. I don;t see why they should ruin the series for anyone, nothing can ruin the originals for you, if you don't let it. You'll always have those.
The quality of Herbert jr and Anderson does seem to go up. Paul + Wind of Dune were both pretty good, maybe even compared to the originals. The current trilogy being written is also leaps better than most other stuff they've written so far.
Just read Dune, then stop.
And read his other stuff. Expecially the Jorj Mackay ones.
Sorry to all the detractors but I am ready to reread the whole series AGAIN.I have read and reread Dune 20 times in the last 8 or 9 years and ALL the original 6 books, a couple of times.
A few days ago there were 25 books. I would appreciate another (updated) chronological sequence suggestion.
I reread Dune, Paul of Dune and am currently rereading Dune Messiah.... So what next and next and next? :)
I want to reread ALL 25 in story chronology, not written sequence thanks :D
The order of original puplication. Once you get past Chapterhouse Dune who cares.
I do :DI have read and reread the Frank books MANY times.... Now I have 25 of them and would like to know what sequence to read them.
I don't claim to be a reader and before this I didn't read a book for 10 years, too much else to do :)
I doubt anyone has, recently, read ALL 25 available but I thought I would ask?
TIA....
I thought there were 19. I read the first 17, but bailed ; enough is enough.
Here is my complete list.I applied the sequence from one of the earliest messages and left the ones that I don't know where to place at the end :(
I suspect all the short stories should be considered ONE book thus making it 19 as per message 217 :)
So where would the short stories and Mentats go chronologically?
01 Dune
02 Paul of Dune
03 Dune Messiah
04 The Winds of Dune
05 Children Of Dune
06 God Emperor Of Dune
07 Heretics of Dune
08 Chapterhouse Dune
09 The Butlerian Jihad
10 The Machine Crusade
11 The Battle of Corrin
12 Sisterhood of Dune
13 Hunters of Dune
14 The Sandworms of Dune
15 House Atreides
16 House Harkonnen
17 House of Corrino
?? Mentats of Dune
__ A Whisper of Caladan Seas (short story in The Road to Dune)
__ Hunting Harkonnens (short story in The Road to Dune)
__ Sea Child (short story in Tales of Dune)
__ The Faces of a Martyr (short story in The Road to Dune)
__ Treasure in the Sand (short story in Tales of Dune)
__ Wedding silk (short story in Tales of Dune)
__ Whipping mek (short story in The Road to Dune)
there you go. We each have our own perception.My list would be -
Dune
Dune Messiah
Children of Dune
Then, for masochists -
God Emperor of Dune
Heretics of Dune
Chapterhouse: Dune
I do not believe, given they are posthumous, that Frank consented to his son making money from his intellectual property. I do not care, really. The original 6 where enough of a slog, after 3 anyway.
Louwin wrote: "Here is my complete list.I applied the sequence from one of the earliest messages and left the ones that I don't know where to place at the end :(
I suspect all the short stories should be con..."
Mentats goes after Sisterhood. The 3rd in this 'series' is Navigators of Dune.
Thanks for that.... :)Now, I have to go looking for Navigators of Dune as I didn't have THAT on my list :D
I see why people do no appreciate the books done by B and Anderson but, in large part, I say they are all good works and 'worth the trouble'. I have read most but not all of the books. I am waiting for the third book from the new trilogy to be completed before I touch Sisterhood of Dune and Mentats of Dune. I am also yet to read Road to Dune.
My suggestion for a first time reader would be the following:
1 Dune
2 Paul of Dune
3 Dune Messiah
4 Children of Dune
5 Dune House Atreides
6 Dune House Harkonnen
7 Dune House Corrino
8 Winds of Dune
9 God Emperor of Dune
10 Heretics of Dune
11 Chapterhouse Dune
12 Dune The Butlerian Jihad
13 Dune The Machine Crusade
14 Dune The Battle of Corrino
15 Hunters of Dune
16 Sandworms of Dune
My own order has been very different
1 Dune House Atreides
2 Dune House Harkonnen
3 Dune House Corrino
4 Dune Messiah
5 Children of Dune
5 Heretics of Dune
6 Chapterhouse Dune
7 Dune The Butlerian Jihad
8 Dune The Machine Crusade
9 Hunters of Dune
10 Sandworms of Dune
11 Dune the Battle of Corrin
12 Dune
13 Paul of Dune
14 God Emperor of Dune
16 Winds of Dune
Melhor wrote: "I see why people do no appreciate the books done by B and Anderson but, in large part, I say they are all good works and 'worth the trouble'. I have read most but not all of the books. I am waiti..."
I cannot believe you would put Dune at 12, after most of the rest of Frank's books. Do you not consider the first book was written for a reason? Maybe it was the genesis of the rest?
Of the originals written by Frank Herbert...I really started to lose interest by the last two. (sigh)
retroj wrote: "What is the best order to read the Dune books in?1) Dune
2) Doon
3) Something else entirely.
IMHO none of the sequels were anywhere near as good as "Dune", so you're better off skipping them altogether.
Hamish wrote: "Dune then Dune MessiahIf you go past those 2 the quality really starts to drop off."
I would definitely agree with this. Although, I did still enjoy Children of Dune.
But, beyond that, the quality did drop off quite a lot, in my opinion. I did read up to Chapterhouse: Dune, but never finished that.
I also did read some of his son's prequels, but, while good in their own right, did not stand up against the original Dune. But, then, neither did much of the father's work after that, either.
I would semi-agree.I can't remember where the Jorj X McKie ones fit, chronologically, but they are definitely worth a read or several. Whipping Star and the Dosadi Experiment, if your memory needs jogging.
The Eyes of Heisenberg, Hellstrom's Hive, The Godmakers... are also good yarns.
Does anybody know what the 'X' in Jorj's name stand for?
FRANK Herbert is not solely defined by Arrakis.
So as someone who's read the Original Dune Series through to I think Heretics of Dune. I might have made it through to Chapterhouse, if they are all the musings of someone changing into erm something else (to avoid spoilers), then I might have made it through to the end. However I did find it progressively harder going.Dune: Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, God Emperor of Dune, Heretics of Dune, and Chapterhouse: Dune.
However, having decided that the children should really benefit from Dune, I looked at the new ones and I've thoroughly enjoyed House Atreides, House Harkonnen and House Corrino.
My temptation for a new reader (i.e my Children) to say start out at those and finish with Dune.
However, I'd welcome suggestions about the far past ones
remote past:
- Dune: Hunting Harkonnens (short story)
- Dune: The Butlerian Jihad
- Dune: Whipping Mek (short story)
- Dune: The Machine Crusade
- Dune: The Faces of a Martyr (short story)
- Dune: The Battle of Corrin
As to if any of those also set the scene for going forwards, or they are best left until you've read dune itself.
I say read the original six by Frank Herbert. Then go and read the ones by BH and KA. I don't accept the BH and KA as canon, though. As far as The Butlerian Jihad goes, the whole "enslavement by machines" thing was strictly metaphorical. I'm now talking about the allusions made to it in Frank Herbert's works. Humanity wasn't literally enslaved by big robots with whips. The "enslavement" Frank Herbert described was that humanity became way too lazy and stupid. Humanity saw that and destroyed any machine that "resembled a human mind."
Brian and Kevin got it all wrong. Then they make that old couple from Chapterhouse into the two main robots from their version of the Butlerian Jihad? Nope, I'm not even going to consider that a part of Frank Herbert's ingeniously conceived universe.
I must confess. When I first heard that Brian and Kevin were going to write prequels I was excited. I read and bought "House Atreides," "Corrino," and "Harkonnen." They were neat books but I knew that Brian and Kevin were taking to many liberties with Brian's dad's vision.
I read and bought the Butlerian Jihad trilogy too. After that I said enough is enough, this is getting ridiculous. But then I heard they were writing "Dune 7" and it was based off notes they found in Frank Herbert's study. I thought, hmm, they have notes, they'll be respectful. Nope again, I refuse to believe that Frank Herbert envisioned the old farming couple as Erasmus and freaking Omnius. After that I quit. I haven't touched another Expansion book since.
Jonesmikey wrote: "I say read the original six by Frank Herbert. Then go and read the ones by BH and KA. I don't accept the BH and KA as canon, though. As far as The Butlerian Jihad goes, the whole "enslavement b..."
Thank you! I've always believed the exact same thing. The way I envisioned it, the Jihad was either a Luddite rebellion of sorts, fought on an interstellar scale. Or perhaps it was a civil war, as there were some hints that certain factions of humans used their machines to enslave others. Either way, I found the way KJA and BH presented it as completely ludicrous!
The one thing that I find interesting is the contrast in responses. The thing I loved about Dune was the futuristic setting of an ancient governmental system with a hybridization of emperor with ruling houses and the preternatural addition of the Bene Gesserit and the guild with their own power. That is why I love science fiction and fantasy. I love the building of universes and intricate systems. My personal favourite focus is military, and I am trying to construct my own universe to write a book of my own in (a much harder process than it sounds). In that regard, I recommend that you read in the method of message 2, but choose your own order of blocks and which books to read.And by looking at the comment above I see why I should never write professionally...run on sentences and tangents within tangents. I don't get that mass I just wrote and I just wrote it.
Read them in publishing order. That means reading the original six Frank Herbert novels, then the Kevin J. Anderson ones from first to last as they originally came out. There will be references and homages you won't get from the originals if you try to put them in some screwy and choppy chronological order.
This is a tough one for me. I can't stand what Brian Herbert does in his Dune novels. I did a ton of research on Frank Herbert in college and I'm confident he'd be turning in his grave if he saw the themes of Sandworms/Hunters of Dune. I haven't read the prequels because it was so evident that Brian Herbert missed the point of his fathers writing so utterly, I can't imagine they're any good. Maybe I'm wrong.The original Dune is excellent and easily the best to read. After that I'd say the next best one in the series (and maybe my favorite) is book four, God Emperor of Dune, but both book two and three are rather weak tea compared to the original Dune. Chapterhouse Dune (book six) is also better than book five imo.
I guess I'd ultimately recommend reading the original books in order, with the caveat that book four makes it "worth it" to read book two and three. It'd be worth it to me anyway, though.
Take it from someone who's read all but 2 of the Dune novels (prequels and sequels). Read DUNE, then stop.
Isaac wrote: "This is a tough one for me. I can't stand what Brian Herbert does in his Dune novels. I did a ton of research on Frank Herbert in college and I'm confident he'd be turning in his grave if he saw..."I agree with you 100%.
The best way to read the Dune series is in the order it was written. It just makes more sense. Frank Herbert wrote in a very specific order and his son just filled in some gaps, but the gaps aren't noticeable in the first series. I think it might be more confusing to read the newer ones before the older ones.
Nancy wrote: "The best way to read the Dune series is in the order it was written. It just makes more sense. Frank Herbert wrote in a very specific order and his son just filled in some gaps, but the gaps aren't..."Or, just read the older ones and let Brian Herbert's series go.
Although, reading that series as a stand alone about a similar subject does help a bit with the younger Herbert's series.
Isaac wrote: "This is a tough one for me. I can't stand what Brian Herbert does in his Dune novels. I did a ton of research on Frank Herbert in college and I'm confident he'd be turning in his grave if he saw..."You're definitely NOT wrong. Between the extremely piss-poor rendition of the Butlerian Jihad Brian and KJA wrote, not to mention the way they tried to plug that material into the ending of the series, showed a total lack of understanding.
They not only took a proud franchise's deep background and presented it as pulp sci-fi fan fiction, they wrote an ending that completely contradicted the original series. For shame!
Matthew wrote: "Isaac wrote: "This is a tough one for me. I can't stand what Brian Herbert does in his Dune novels. I did a ton of research on Frank Herbert in college and I'm confident he'd be turning in his g..."I never read the ending, I quit about halfway through #7.
Jonesmikey wrote: "Matthew wrote: "Isaac wrote: "This is a tough one for me. I can't stand what Brian Herbert does in his Dune novels. I did a ton of research on Frank Herbert in college and I'm confident he'd be ..."I know the feeling. Shall I tell you what happens? I think it's safe to say that if you still have the book lying around, you'll want to drop-kick it across the room.
Something about a legion of Pauls, right? I'm up for a larf
Jonesmikey wrote: "Something about a legion of Pauls, right? I'm up for a larf"Not quite, but close enough. Hang onto your hat, because this is going to made you either laugh or cry...
So, at the height of the story, the Icarus crew comes to a dead planet that was protected by a no-field. They land and find out (with immense ease, I might add) that the planet's population was killed by a plague. They realize this is the plague that sent the Honored Matres packing and set out again.
Murbella finished preparing for the immiment attack by the Outside Enemy. Meanwhile, through Other Memory, realizes who Daniel and Marty (the old man and woman in Duncan's visions) are - turns out they are Erasmus and Omnius, the evil robots from the Butlerian Jihad series. And it seems that they were the ones sending the freed Face Dancers all along.
The Oracle of Time, the Navigator patron saint who shows up in the story at some point, is revealed to be Normah Cenva, the genius girl from the Butlerian Jihad trilogy, who then jumps into the fray just as the machine armada is encroaching on the known universe and sends Omnius into another dimension. The fleet stops.
Duncan confronts Erasmus and convinces him that humans and robots need to live in harmony. Erasmus agrees. The Face Dancers try to turn on both of them, but Erasmus activates their fail safe and takes them all out. And just like that, the universe is saved.
Duncan, is told by their Paul ghola that he is the last of the Kwisatz Haderachs, which makes him the "Ultimate Kwisatz Haderach". And there's a dual between the two Paul gholas, one that Duncan the crew of the Icarus created, and the one the Face Dancers grew - whom they named Paolo. Paul wins, and he and all the other gholas live happily ever after on their old homeworlds. Except Leto II, who allows himself to be eaten by a worm so he can "go back into dreaming".
So basically, it's shit that makes no sense!
S wrote: "Ampoliros wrote: "S wrote: "In one of Brian Herbert's sequels, we finally find out who the farmers were"We find out at the end of Chapterhouse who they were.
Then the new books flat out ignored ..."
Not sure anyone answered your questions already, S, especially since you posted a long time ago. But since it's an important question and relates directly to the sequels that Brian and KJA wrote, I'll recap it for you anyway...
The old man and woman - aka. Daniel and Marty - that Duncan Idaho was seeing in his visions in Chapterhouse: Dune were revealed to be face dancers. And not just any, but a type of free face dancers who explain that they evolved to the point where they don't obey masters and have their own sense of identity and purpose.
This is apparently what was driving the Honored Matres away from the Scattering and back into the Old Empire. Apparently, they had been hit with a biological weapon that devastated them, hence why they wanted to conquer the Bene Gesserit and learn their abilities since the Sisterhood has the ability to neutralize poisons and diseases that enter their bodies.
This is why some fans hate the sequels by Brian and KJA. In these, Brian and Marty turn out to be the robots Erasmus and Omnius, and the Face Dancers were apparently their creations who were preparing the Old Empire for the invasion of the machines. This made no sense for a number of reason, and more importantly, contradicted what Frank had wrote, leaving many to suspect that they altered the ending to fit in with their own prequels and not Franks "copious notes".
Matthew wrote: "S wrote: "Ampoliros wrote: "S wrote: "In one of Brian Herbert's sequels, we finally find out who the farmers were"We find out at the end of Chapterhouse who they were.
Then the new books flat ou..."
So if you read Chapterhouse, Hunters and Sandworms without reading the prequels, Sandworms doesn't make sense. You wouldn't know who Erasmus and Omnius were.
S wrote: "Matthew wrote: "S wrote: "Ampoliros wrote: "S wrote: "In one of Brian Herbert's sequels, we finally find out who the farmers were"We find out at the end of Chapterhouse who they were.
Then the n..."
Bingo! Just goes to show you how Sandworms and Hunters couldn't possibly have come from Herbert's own notes, or as a sequel to his series.
Stephen wrote: "That's a trick question as there's only one book in the Dune series :3"And there you have it.
JT wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That's a trick question as there's only one book in the Dune series :3"And there you have it."
I don't understand.
S wrote: "JT wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That's a trick question as there's only one book in the Dune series :3"And there you have it."
I don't understand."
My sentiments, exactly.
S wrote: "JT wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That's a trick question as there's only one book in the Dune series :3"And there you have it."
I don't understand."
I think he's trying to say that the first book in the series is the only one worth reading. Could be wrong, but that opinion has been expressed (ad nauseam) throughout this thread.
A shame of a sentiment, imho God Emperor of Dune is just as good as Dune. Really though, I'll always be disappointed that no one is bothering to reprint the rest of Frank Herbert's novels. They're hit or miss (as is the case with anyone who writes so prolifically) but some of them are quite good. Does whoever owns them think they wouldn't sell?
Seems like they could just slap "From the author of DUNE" on all of them and make buckets of cash.
Isaac wrote: "A shame of a sentiment, imho God Emperor of Dune is just as good as Dune. Really though, I'll always be disappointed that no one is bothering to reprint the rest of Frank Herbert's novels. They..."
That would be Brian Herbert, I believe, who owns the estate and rights pertaining to it. And he's already making buckets of cash through his and KJA's spinoff novels that bear the proud name of Dune. However, given the way they keep going back to that well, I can't imagine why they wouldn't try to do the re-release thing.
I have copies of The Lazarus Effect and Destination: Void that I've been meaning to read. Which other Herbert books have you read that you'd recommend?
For me Dune, Messiah & Children as in essence one big story that rounds up Pauls life. God Emperor is the finale of the choices made in the first big story and one finally finds out why Paul ran away from his destiny to leave that to his son.The Heretics & Chapter house books are about the Bene Gesserit struggling with Paul & Leto's heritage and to make sense of what his golden path was really aimed at.
The Frank Herbert Dune books are a brilliant series worth to be read.
Brian and Co has had his better moments in his vision of his Dune series. But overall they have never lived up to his fathers ideas and writing.
That said I very much wait for the closing book of the Schools of trilogy, that for once is quite original and fun to read.
But for the love of Dune steer clear from the two books that were written by Brian & Co that wants to clear up Franks amazing cliffhanger. Which on his own is far better than what son and friend managed to make up. I do agree that Brian probably never had any notes on Dune 7 or he willfully chose to ignore them. And if the last option fits it might be that such a book by Frank Herbert might have sold whereas anybody else might be struggling to sell the idea.
Matthew wrote: "I have copies of The Lazarus Effect and Destination: Void that I've been meaning to read. Which other Herbert books have you read that you'd recommend?"The Jesus Incident / The Lazarus Effect / The Ascension Factor make up a trilogy, with Destination: Void being the sort of "prequel."
Destination: Void isn't really necessary to read... it's not terrible, but it feels pretty clunky/dated.
Jesus/Lazarus/Ascension, though, are definitely worth the read. The stories are pretty interesting, and they have Frank's signature hard science, biology based approach to world building that gets him so much praise for Dune. It rivals any Dune novel in that regard.
Whipping Star and The Godmakers are also pretty good.
I wouldn't say any of them are "as good as Dune" overall, but they're definitely worth reading.
I'd start with The Jesus Incident, personally.
Matthew wrote: "S wrote: "JT wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That's a trick question as there's only one book in the Dune series :3"And there you have it."
I don't understand."
I think he's trying to say that the firs..."
That's a little stronger than I was going for, but there is a significant drop off after the first, and a precipitous one after the sixth.
Here's my suggestion: read Dune and Dune Messiah, then forget the rest of them. They are derivative and weak and don't really introduce any really compelling material after the first two.
JT wrote: "Matthew wrote: "S wrote: "JT wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That's a trick question as there's only one book in the Dune series :3"And there you have it."
I don't understand."
I think he's trying to s..."
After the sixth? The sixth was the last novel in the series, at least in terms of those penned by Frank Herbert. Anything after Chapterhouse: Dune was Brian and KJA, which (I am obviously quite biased in saying this but) are not canonical Dune.
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