Did you read the book or watch the show first?

[Path]

I read the book in for the first time in 1997, and watched the show when it came out. I am really happy with how well the TV show came out.

[Deni]

I read the books first and was soooo excited about show...I knew it would be awesome since George was involved with creating the show :)

[Huw]

Funnily enough, I agree with Ruby (and am old enough to remember when adult themes were invented); there was too much in the TV series that was graphic, particularly the sex scenes. To my mind they were a combination of idiot's eye candy and time filler and did nothing to help the plot move in any direction.
Otherwise I thought the show was a superb rendition of the book.

[Sara]

Huw wrote: "Funnily enough, I agree with Ruby (and am old enough to remember when adult themes were invented); there was too much in the TV series that was graphic, particularly the sex scenes. To my mind they..."

My thoughts exactly. I'm 23 (24 in a couple weeks) and had to roll my eyes at that scene with what's-his-face and the girls. I thought "Oh, HBO...You try so hard to maintain your status as King of Quality TV with Random 'Cut-To Porn' Scenes." It just felt ridiculously contrived to me. Like in old movies where the villain turns to the camera and strokes his mustache while explaining his evil plan.
In fact, here ya go: TVtropes.org explains it perfectly.
My feeling is, if I wanna watch porn, I'll go watch porn. I don't need it in my TV shows... Not that I want everything all Brady Bunch, either. I think Breaking Bad does just fine w/o an overt amount of sex. (in fact, there's hardly any)

[Sara]

And Ruby! :O I'm shocked that you're watching this show at eleven years old! I was making mummies out of Barbie dolls, collecting Pokemon cards, and punching boys at your age!

[Amma]

Oh I totally watched the show first (which is awesome). I don't even remember how I stumbled upon it, TV Tropes, probably.
I find it funny considering I always saw the series 'A Song of Ice and Fire' and swore up and down I'd never read it.
Guess what I'm reading and loving ^^...

I have no regrets about watching it first. Except maybe it's hard for me to finish Book 1 knowing what happens. Then again, reading, being in a character's mind is much more fulfilling than watching.

[Torie]

Sara wrote: "Huw wrote: "Funnily enough, I agree with Ruby (and am old enough to remember when adult themes were invented); there was too much in the TV series that was graphic, particularly the sex scenes. To ..."

Oh are you referring to the scene where Littlefinger is just making those two prostitutes touch each other and fake moan? I remember letting out an audible groan at watching that. There was really no reason for that to be in there

[Sara]

Torie wrote: "Sara wrote: "Huw wrote: "Funnily enough, I agree with Ruby (and am old enough to remember when adult themes were invented); there was too much in the TV series that was graphic, particularly the se..."

lol Yes. That's exactly the scene I was referring to. smh. It got a big eyeroll from me.

[Huw]

Absolutely right but HBO sell themselve short every time they do this. How long will it be before they lose all credibility?

[Ruby]

Huw wrote: "Funnily enough, I agree with Ruby (and am old enough to remember when adult themes were invented); there was too much in the TV series that was graphic, particularly the sex scenes. To my mind they..."

Thank you, sir! No, I loved the show, don't get me wrong. I thought it was absolutely brilliant. But since it's HBO...they just had to.

[Ruby]

Torie wrote: "Sara wrote: "Huw wrote: "Funnily enough, I agree with Ruby (and am old enough to remember when adult themes were invented); there was too much in the TV series that was graphic, particularly the se..."

It was just to tell Littlefinger's story, really.

[Will]

It was a great scene, and it's not like it was for ratings because it wasn't that erotic, which was the whole point. It was a facade of fake acting, a farce. It's the art of seduction with the viewer given a privileged look into an intimate deception.

How are you guys not getting this?

[Milo]

I read the books after hearing people rave about them on various forums that I freqent, namely Heresy Online. I'm only on a Clash of Kings at the moment.

[Huw]

Will wrote: "It was a great scene, and it's not like it was for ratings because it wasn't that erotic, which was the whole point. It was a facade of fake acting, a farce. It's the art of seduction with the view..."

I am always delighted to have somebody in authority correct the error of my ways. I am always equally delighted to disagree totally with the view of those who profess authority. I was referring generally to the unnecessary over-sexualisation of the entire series when compared with the original Martin plotline, rather than one specific scene.
I would agree that the acting in the scene involving Littlefinger was fake. It was certainly farcical. In what way did it advance the plot? To use the Socratic argument that the general is proved by the particular has been discounted on so many planes that I am surprised to see it being used. Precisely what am I not getting?

[Will]

I'm always delighted when somebody in authority thinks I'm talking to them or about them, when I'm not, or when they infer things about me from a couple sentences. I am always equally delighted when they use trite sarcasm to try to assert their dominance. I was specifically not referring to what you were saying at all, instead, I was referring to those who remarked on that specific scene and those that said it had no significance, or no worth or value. Notice how my post didn't mention your post or anything in it at all.

In what way is every single scene necessary for advancing the plot? Most stories involve scenes where we learn about a character's background, influence, or motives, none of which are "necessary" for the advancement of the plot, but instead enhance it. In that specific scene, we get all of this information in just a 2 minute scene. Boy, are those writers just wasting their time on idiotic eye candy!

Huw wrote: "Precisely what am I not getting?"

Well, you're not getting that, one, I wasn't talking directly to you, which you've obviously assumed since you corrected me about what you were specifically referring to, when I was specifically not referring to you at all. Two, rhetoric in general. Three, I used no Socratic argument. My last question wasn't an assertion that my analysis was the only correct one, or that it proved others wrong, but a rhetorical one, in which I was demonstrating that even if the scene was unimportant to some people, or that it had no reason or purpose for others, does not mean that it was not important or that it served no reason or purpose, as the poster who I was referring to suggested.

And I hope you have a good sense of irony before you respond.

[Huw]

Thanks for replying so quickly, Will. I certainly did not mean to upset you, nor to infer that I have any authority at all myself. As to your reference to my sarcasm I can only say that one man's irony (and I do understand the term, in this situation the use of one word when the opposite is intended) is anothers sarcasm. Again if I have upset you, I apologise

I do not disagree with your view that character enhancement is as important as plot advancement and, if anything there is a significant overlap (one could even be seen a a subset of the other). I disagree with you regarding that particular scene's value in being enhancing of Littlefinger's character. His overwhelming trait from the outset is his obsession with Catelyn Stark. I accept that to some people it will be important, even if I cannot fathom why myself - hence my question. As for my extending your particular into my general that is my bad.

You may have not been talking to me directly but this is an open forum where everbody's views are open to challenge, hopefully constructive. Once again I apologise if I have upset you.

[Will]

Okay good, I didn't want to see a response about me being hypocritical, etc., so I thought it necessary to point out the irony in my post.

I think annoyed is a more correct term to apply than upset because you seemed to think I was directly referring to your previous posts when I hadn't even read them. I was responding to Torie and Sara's posts, although, in hindsight, I probably should have made that more clear.

I don't understand being upset by a stranger over the internet, although people seem to all the time.

[Sara]

Hey, Will. 'Sup?
I got that you were referring to we "specific sceners," but I see I've arrived late to the party.
I'll be as brief as I can.

It's not as if I don't "get" something. I dislike it. It's your opinion that the scene was good and mine that it was bad.

I like character to be subtly demonstrated. The old "show, don't tell" rule of writing. I like intentions to be hinted at or kept secret. I don't like villains doing near-monologues about how they've achieved their position and the techniques they'll use to further their ambitions. I'm not an idiot and I don't need things spelled out for me. I think American television (and probably tv in general) often underestimates the intelligence of its audience and that annoys me. Period.

I found the scene idiotic and thought it lacked only a fancy mustache for Littlefinger to twirl.

Most women don't need the art of seduction spelled out to them like that. It's not that difficult. I found it even harder to believe two prostitutes would need such a lesson. Anyone whose livelihood depends upon their patrons, picks that art up real fast.

[Torie]

Will wrote: "It was a great scene, and it's not like it was for ratings because it wasn't that erotic, which was the whole point. It was a facade of fake acting, a farce. It's the art of seduction with the view..."

Lulz. No need to be condescending, Will, really. It would be kind of hard not to understand that they were being fake when Littlefinger chided them on how their moans weren't "real" or "good enough." It was pretty obvious, I think. So there wasn't anything I didn't "get."

I agree with Sara in that all this information could have been incorporated with more subtlety rather than having him spill everything out at once. And come on. The scene was shown primarily to get higher ratings for its gratuitous breast shots and softcore porn. Really. I'm not complaining about the sex content in the show because I felt some scenes were necessary and helped us understand or helped develop relationships between characters (E.G. Dany and Drogo). It was just that when then this scene came on, I was kind of like, "Wut. Where did this come from?" And then he poured his heart out about his history to two of his whores while they faked sexual pleasure. It was just weird and random. My BF probably liked it though. Haha!

[Will]

Guys, It's a short television show that can't exactly explore every detail of every character subtly. Sometimes, it's necessary to just tell the audience right out what a character is thinking. I too would love it if every piece of character development could be viewed by the audience as the developments happen within the character, but that isn't realistic. Every show I've ever seen either ignores fascinating insight into a character's development, or it goes about it in a less than subtle manner when deemed a necessary insight, such as the case with Littlefinger.

And as much as you might think you don't need things spelled out for you, sometimes you do. We all do. Don't act so arrogant. Those that were watching the show that had never read the books received vital information about Littlefinger's character in that scene that would have taken scores of scenes to accomplish "subtly," something a TV show doesn't have the luxury of attempting.

And being condescending was actually the opposite of what I was attempting by my comment. There really does need to be a sarcasm font.

[Will]

Torie wrote: "And then he poured his heart out about his history to two of his whores while they faked sexual pleasure. It was just weird and random."

My point is that the scene is neither random nor weird. I think I explored all the reasons why I think so in previous posts.

[Torie]

Will wrote: "And as much as you might think you don't need things spelled out for you, sometimes you do. We all do. Don't act so arrogant. Those that were watching the show that had never read the books received vital information about Littlefinger's character in that scene that would have taken scores of scenes to accomplish "subtly," something a TV show doesn't have the luxury of attempting."

Haha! I was one of those people who watched the show before reading the books. Yes, I learned vital information about Littlefinger that I didn't know before, but no, I didn't think that this unloading of information was done as well as it could have. I don't know, it would have suited me better if Littlefinger revealed this in smaller doses rather than spilling it out all at once or if he did it to different people or in a different setting. The dramatic monologue was a little too much for me and I, personally, found it strange that he was saying it in the company of two whores he was trying to train.

I haven't watched that episode in a while, but I do remember how that scene caught me off guard and how I thought it was a bit off. But, y'know, to each their own. I'm sure tons of viewers enjoyed it and thought it was done as masterfully as you did. I just wasn't one of them. A+ moans though.

[Alpha]

I read the book first and loved it. I originally read this novel back in 2000 and just reread it again because of the show. Hoping the show is good enough.

[Dionna]

I watched the series first and enjoyed so much that I had to read the books.

[Sara]

Lol, Will, I was also one of those who watched the show first! :\
It still made me go,"Oh, please."
As Torie said, this scene just seemed to come out of nowhere. Kind of incongruous, as I remember. I didn't have a problem w/any of the other sex scenes. Just this one w/the almost-monologue and the very unnatural spillage of information.

btw, a sarcasm font would be awesome. Or a designated color.

[Ruby]

Sara wrote: "And Ruby! :O I'm shocked that you're watching this show at eleven years old! I was making mummies out of Barbie dolls, collecting Pokemon cards, and punching boys at your age!"

Heehee. Hey I tortured Barbies too! Ah well. My best friend Rebecca is 14 so she reads/watches them and also her sister was home for the holidays from college, so they all had watched a couple and really liked it. Then I found out they were books and I just HAD to. So good! And now I've been pestering everyone about them and my friends are reading them and liking them too! Yay! Spread the love.

[Candace]

I watched the tv series first and then started the first book. I am so impressed that they followed the book so closely. There were only two parts that I could see that were different. I am now up to book three, but I can't wait for the second season. I really hope that the success of the tv series and other fantasy movies will make someone consider doing Robert Jordan's books or David Eddings. I would really love to see the Belgariad come to life on the screen.

[Will]

Perhaps being a fan of Dostoevsky has made me numb to unrealistic monologues.

[Alice]

I saw a few episodes of the tv show first,
and i liked it so much i knew i had to read the books!
I'm currently reading a storm of swords.

[Craig]

show first. love the books now

[Clyde]

Read all the books first -- twice. The TV show is a pretty good adaptation so far; I quite enjoy it.
The books are all big, so some sub-plots will have to be dropped or greatly cut down for the show. I am looking forward to seeing how HBO handles it.

[Jaye Latts]

I watched the television series first because I had never heard of this book series. But, once I had watched it, I bought all of the books and devoured them! Then I told a friend about them and now he's hooked, too!

[[deleted user]]

Will wrote: "It's the fact that he's manipulating these women right before our eyes as he tells us how he manages to do this on a political level that makes the metaphor so powerful. A wonderful scene.

Petyr Littlefinger is kind of a political evil genius, isn't he? Kind of like Varys, except that Petyr is motivated purely by ambition (and in his actions towards Sansa, by his obsession with her mother). I love their scenes together in the show -- the whoremonger and the eunuch...

[[deleted user]]

Sara wrote: "Lol, Will, I was also one of those who watched the show first! :\
It still made me go,"Oh, please."
As Torie said, this scene just seemed to come out of nowhere. Kind of incongruous, as I remember...."

Honestly, I think you guys were just offended by/didn't want to see the porn. Whatever. I understand completely (little hard to focus on Petyr while there are bouncing breasts in the foreground). Note: the camera mainly *did* focus on his face, rather than on the 2 ladies. And yet he was completely cold and unemotional, not turned on at all...possibly helping to reveal more of his creepy obsession for Catelyn?

I really don't see a better way they could've done it w/o stretching it out over long episodes. Who else is he going to pour his heart out to? Cersei? The show has already established that "Men like to talk when they're happy. Before your brother bought me for you, it was my job to make men happy." Prostitutes play a huge role in these books. Viserys spills his entire backstory to Doreah in the bathtub, and Tyrion tells sad stories about his childhood to Shae, yet I don't see anyone objecting. Maybe because no boobs were shown? I mean, if you're offended by showing naked people, just say so, and don't act like you're offended by the trite plot device.

Also, the fact that you had watched the show first and "got it" when Littlefinger was telling his story just proves Will's point about how the directors wanted to make it easy for people who hadn't read the books to understand.

I just think that, if there were excessive boobs that didn't do much for plot, that wasn't the scene to complain about. More like the scene where Tyrion makes out with topless Shae for a good 20 seconds before the camera cuts, or where we get to see that Hodor has a huge dick.

[Will]

Laura wrote: "where we get to see that Hodor has a huge dick"

It is quite impressive.

[Katie]

I am ashamed to say I watched the show first because I always pride myself on reading the book before I see a movie (and I usually read the book loooong before) but fantasy is not my usual genre and I got hooked on this show first. Now I have read 1-4 in the series and just started on book #5. I am absolutely addicted!!!

[Torie]

Laura wrote: " I mean, if you're offended by showing naked people, just say so, and don't act like you're offended by the trite plot device. "

LOL. No, as I said before, I'm cool with the nudity, but I just remember this scene was a little jarring and out of place to me, personally, upon first watching it. I thought the Shae and Tyrion scene was okay, because it showed their initial attraction/relationship with one another and the Hodor dick scene was put in for humor.

I'm not suggesting that they little by little reveal how he once pursued a relationship with Catelyn nor do I think they should have extended the backstory over a series of episodes. I don't know what I would have preferred. Catelyn revealing it? I know she did for a good chunk of the books. It just seemed weird to me that he'd be telling it to two of his whores. It's kind of like, "Hey. Hey you guys. Moan louder. Man, I used to be in love with Catelyn. I even took her maidenhood. HEY MOAN LOUDER. YOU CALL THAT AN ORGASM? Sigggh. Oh Catelyn." I guess it does contribute to the fact that he has an all encompassing obsession with her, but I still felt this scene was pretty meh. Yeah, there were a lot of other scenes that were visually unnecessary, (Theon's wiener and his prositute's snatch), but I thought those specific scenes contributed to character development (e.g. how we begin to see Theon as a complete tool). I guess we learn how Petyr is completely detached and unattracted to any woman other than Catelyn, but it was still awkward to me.

[Brian]

I had heard of the books before I watched the HBO series. I thought the series was so great and the cliffhanger final episode was so dramatic that I had to read the books. The books were even better than I thought they would be and I can say they are among the best I've ever read.

[FAT MAN]

Read the book first... Started the series a while ago and was half way though Clash of kings when I got sick and ended in the hospital... just got a way from me and never ended up going back...

[Ruby]

Brian wrote: "I had heard of the books before I watched the HBO series. I thought the series was so great and the cliffhanger final episode was so dramatic that I had to read the books. The books were even bet..."

Same.

[Dennis]

I'm a big fan of HBO and their original programming. Watched the first episode and was hooked to the series. I began to read the books after the first season was complete. I'm on Storm of Swords now and am really enjoying it.

[Alpha]

The thing I heard about the series to the book is that the series does such a good job as if were directly from the book, those who watched the series first than read the book say it's like reading the series. Does that make sense?

[MJ]

Read the books first. Actually stumbled across the first book almost by accident (or maybe kismet) when I was stuck at the airport without a book to read and found the paperback at a bookstore. Hated to put it down when it was finally time to board the flight. :)

[Jp36]

I saw most of the first season first then went to research the book only to find it was seveal books and not done yet. I learned the outcome of the series before it concluded and then didn't have any interest in reading the actual books, a wiki i found summed the books up.

I started reading the books recently in anticipation of the next season though and have certainly gone beyond what season 2 will cover.

[Alissa]

My hubby is a big fantasy fan...really all he reads. He read the series and raved about it. I picked up A Game of Thrones and finished the book before the series started. I'm on A Clash of Kings now after taking a break. Have to finish it before the next season starts on HBO.

[Ruby]

Jp36 wrote: "I saw most of the first season first then went to research the book only to find it was seveal books and not done yet. I learned the outcome of the series before it concluded and then didn't have ..."

Same. I didn't even know there were books at first, and then I saw it on my friends bookshelf and I was like, "YES."

[Konihamaru]

watched the show first. read the book after. im now on the 3rd book and im all hooked up! looking forward to season 2 of the series, cant wait!!!!

[[deleted user]]

Arnold wrote: "I read the entire series first, before the show came out. I hear it's good, but I don't have cable..."

The DVD comes out in March. Guess what I'm asking for for my birthday... ;)

[S.]

I've read the first book and am still in the beginning of the second. I attempted watching the show (after reading the first book) and found I couldn't get past the second episode. I much more prefer the book(s)!

[LindaJ^]

I read the books. Have not yet seen the HBO series. Books 1 & 2 were great, book 3 not so great, and book 4 so needed to be edited. Book 5 was much improved, with a great last 50 pages! Maybe the series will get us Book 6 in less than a decade.