Fantasy Book Club Series discussion
Malazan Book of the Fallen
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Return of the Crimson Guard-Book 1 Diaspora's End
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I had to finish the Farseer trilogy before I jumped back into this one. That second book was quite the cliffhanger. I couldn't wait until the 1st to read it. (Plus, it was easier to bring Assassin's Quest with my to work, a much smaller book to carry around. Thus, starting Return of the Crimson Guard has been pushed back a little for me. I will be getting to it soon, I hope anyway.
Maggie wrote: "Oh, and since there are only 3 books in this novel, we will do one book for 10 days!"Wierd I couldn't see this discussion earlier today!?
Return is a great book in so far as we see ICE start to mature as a writer! To me Stonewielder is his best book, althought that perspective is due to being starved of anything Malazan for a year when I read it!
Yes take a moment to read the very first page of the book where dark and light converge on shadow...
The whole Spur event doesn't make since except we see the CG close up! Young Kyle is so refreshing much as young Kiska was in Knight! I also liked meeting Graymane!
Anyways this is a great read and I can't wait to see Traveler again! Oh and I love Eruko!!!! :)
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I do like how Kyle has no idea who are avowed and who aren't, even though he is part of the company. Gives everything a feeling of confusion.
Maggie wrote: "Yeah-the fight at the Spur does seem odd at first...a year long seige? But,like anything in Malazan you have to just go with it!I do like how Kyle has no idea who are avowed and who aren't, even..."
I'm at the place where Skinner returns, pretty crazy times for young Kyle!
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And all the 'Drowning' victims are hanging out in Falar? WHo'd a thunk???? lol
I've started this finally. I'm not too far yet, just have read the prologue and first chapter.
Amelia wrote: "I've started this finally. I'm not too far yet, just have read the prologue and first chapter."YAY!!!! Just remember ICE is not SE!! I have to tell myself that every so often with ICE!! I really like the way SE sets up his books, the flipping flopping of chapters/characters works for me, I don't get confussed, with ICE he just throws everyone into each chapter and I have a hard time going back and finding something I'm looking for. :(
Otherwise it's a good book! Last night I read Travelers and Ereko defending the small village where they are building a boat! So I'm just about to book II!
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YEP HE IS!!!!! Ereko is on my list of favorite characters, he's AWESOME!!!! :)
On chapter two. I can't believe Mallick Rel worships Mael! And it seems like he thinks he can control him or influence what he does. Like Mael would ever let anyone dictate what he should do. Ha!
Amelia wrote: "On chapter two. I can't believe Mallick Rel worships Mael! And it seems like he thinks he can control him or influence what he does. Like Mael would ever let anyone dictate what he should do. Ha!"Yeah that's a kicker isn't it! Friggin hate Mallick! :(
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Maggie wrote: "I wonder if Mael as of yet even realizes Mallick Rel exists...I mean, he is a little busy being a manservant and all....lmao"LOL! That and trying to keep Tehol alive!
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Maggie wrote: "What did you all think about Storo's crew? Obviously a lot of talent there...I liked Hurl's random thought that their roads had purposely led them together....something is definitely up!"Yeah Storo and company at Li Heng have been thru some shit already and there's more to come! Silk and Liss are freaky and I really like Hurl! :)
Also forgot to mention Rellick and the Wickens!! I really like that story line, so many suprises on the way!
Just finished Book one yesterday and started book two where Kyle and Stalker plan on stealing a new boat....Hmm!
Maggie wrote: "What did you all think about Storo's crew? Obviously a lot of talent there...I liked Hurl's random thought that their roads had purposely led them together....something is definitely up!"Rell holding off 40 plus soldiers in the dome was pretty cool. Defending that door until Silk could come and bascially decimate everyone inside with his blast of pure light. I am confused why the Old Guard is choosing this moment to rise up and rebell against the empire. I'm not convinced that Storo's gang are complete 'loyalists'. I think there might be some other goal behind all of their actions, especially with Silk kind of guiding their actions.
Is it Rillick with the Wickans? I can't believe that those settlers would just be trying to decimate the Wickans. Actually, yes I can. With Mallick Rel's actions, the Wickans are not in favor with the majority of the Malazans. Only a few know the truth of Coltaine's march.
I've been trying to figure out how this story fits chronologically with SE's timeline. Does this story take place after the Adjunct and her army go awol? It's definitely after Kalam attacked Malaz City. It seems like the Claws are in a major upheaval right now, so I'd think this is after their decmation in Malaz City.
Amelia wrote: "Maggie wrote: "What did you all think about Storo's crew? Obviously a lot of talent there...I liked Hurl's random thought that their roads had purposely led them together....something is definitely..."Yes this occures after the 14th and the Adjunct go awol and just before Toll the Hounds, so durning Reapers Gale.
Shelley wrote: "Amelia wrote: "Maggie wrote: "What did you all think about Storo's crew? Obviously a lot of talent there...I liked Hurl's random thought that their roads had purposely led them together....somethin..."That's what I was thinking. I know that there are dates at the beginning og the book, but somehow I've never been able to grasp when so many years after Burn's Sleep is, or how all of the prologue stuff fits in with the rest of the story. At least for this book, the prologue is in 'the Elder Age, time unmeasured'. I grasped that time period easily enough.
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I guess I have to visualize the events more than the dates. It makes more sense to me to say that this book takes place while Adjuct Tavore and the 14th are down doing their stuff in Reaper's Gale than that it is year 1165th year of Burn's Sleep, 99th year of the Crimson Guards' Vow and 11th year of Laseen's Rule. Ok that does add some perspective, but I still like to know what is happening elsewhere.
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Amelia wrote: "I guess I have to visualize the events more than the dates. It makes more sense to me to say that this book takes place while Adjuct Tavore and the 14th are down doing their stuff in Reaper's Gale..."Again... LOLLLLL...Amelia, too funny! Yeah it only makes since to Maggie and I cause we've read it before, my first read thru I ignored all that time stuff, was to confussing! :)
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She is so obviously being used here...and is self deluded enough to think that she is actually in charge? It's kind of funny....
I am really having trouble working out how it all fits in. It is very obvious when you jump from a SE to an ICE book, which is understandable, but I feel that you dont get a grounding on who is who and where they fit. So Ghelel is a good example, I have no idea who she is or what part of the story she is relative too.
Traveller and Ereko, is this the same Traveller that was guarding the unclaimed throne on the island? that was Traveller right? oh god, so confused. Did he leave the island or die on the island? sigh
Rallick is back, yikes, slime time, pushing Mael around? can't wait to see him get stuck with a knife, but doubt it is anytime soon.
Looking forward to getting back to SE.
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Ghelel is recent, new to this book, but she is actually the true descendent of the original rulers of Quon Tali, and thus the 'rightful' empress. The Talian League, which consists of all the 'drowning victims' who took off when Lasseen betrayed Shadowthrone, are using her as a figurehead in their battle against Laseen.
Yeah Lee, ICE isn't as smooth as SE is, but you will get used to his writing style!! As Maggie said that is indeed the same Traveler, we don't know how he was able to leave Drift Andii and end up on the Wall?? But there it is! There are some great characters here that we get the background story on now, like Toc the Elder! :)I really like Rillish, he reminds me of WhiskyJack sometimes! Ereko is a favorite of mine and we learn more of the history of the world, where the races come from ect!
Hopefully by the end you'll see why Maggie and I had you guys read Return thou!! :)
I read some more last night, and I don't know, maybe I was in a different frame of mind, but I did find myself getting more into it. Rallick is just great, I dont think ICE writes him as slimy as SE does, but still, you gotta love to hate this guy. What a character. Why would anyone trust him with their plans?Silk is interesting, obviously has a lot more power than most expected, (Kurald Liosen?) they have just entered the palace whilst the coup is under way, and who or what is Rell?
So I think I am beginning to understand a bit more of the history now.
So you have the Malazan part of the story with Rallick.
The avowed with Kyle and the GreySomething who are returning to fight the Malazans, but have their own internal struggles, with which we may see Skinner again,
And finally the Talians who have their own agenda, but I am not sure how they link to the other 2 story lines.
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Storo and crew are the Li Heng guards.
The Talians are the former 'drownees' who have a bone to pick with Laseen, and have kind of 'commandeered Ghelel, but she seems to think she is in charge, so...
Rallick is a Malazan who refused to give up the Wickans---which makes him a fool and traitor to some, but a hero to others.
The Avowed are having all kinds of problems...
Methinks there will be a battle here soon!
Rallick is just great, I dont think ICE writes him as slimy as SE does, but still, you gotta love to hate this guy. What a character. Why would anyone trust him with their plans?Ok so I got a name wrong here, I meant to say Mallick, and so since there is a Rellick this came out all wrong.
Lee wrote: "Rallick is just great, I dont think ICE writes him as slimy as SE does, but still, you gotta love to hate this guy. What a character. Why would anyone trust him with their plans?Ok so I got a nam..."
Let me help, before the Malazans concurred the Quan Tali continent the Talians ruled the Tali region, The Crimson Guard ruled by Prince Kazz are also from the Quan Tali continent, they vowed to fight the Malazans and would one day return to claim their rightful place, hence the Avowed! So first the Talin League rebel's against the Malazans with all the "drowned" commanders as leaders...this all occurs because Rellick creates the situation with the Wickens, we also see him rushing the Guard long to Quan Tali, which is why it's funny when the Guard land in Unta instead of Crawn like he thought they would!
More fav characters are Nait and Ho!!! :)
Thanks for that Shelley. That does make sense. There are all sorts of potential "big stories" going on all over the place.
The 2 guards on the Otatarial Island with Ho, Bala (sp?) the mage with the fan on the Guard ships. Kyle and what ever windy conclusion he is going to bring, the character in the Imperial Warren and the alien ships (?) that seem to have converged there, and of course what ever Traveller is up to. Fenners lost ass, this is complex, it like when these two write all they do is create more opportunities for more books.
Laseen, wtf? is she an agent of the Crippled God??!! I cannot name one thing that she has done that has benefited the Empire. Admittedly she is not in the story much, but when she is, its a freakin disaster.
Chain of Dogs, Seven Cities Rebelion, Kordomo Dom and Mallick Rae promoted ??!! Tavore, Tayschrenn, WHAT are you doing woman? I mean it is obvious what Kordomo and Mallick would do, you could see that a mile off, so you have to assume that she knows it too. So giving them the positions to enact their nefarious ways only means that she wants the Empire to collapse. Why else would she have tried to kill Tavore, she probably knew she would escape and take the army with her. Nothing makes sense, unless her ultimate goal is to rid the world of the Empire.
Lastly, when are we going to see more of the Mott Irregulars? Or at least read about the war they were involved in (Black Swamp?) with the Malazans in the beginning. SE teased us, giving us some info and insight to the Mott families and I have been dying to read about them.
Lee said 'Lastly, when are we going to see more of the Mott Irregulars? Or at least read about the war they were involved in (Black Swamp?) with the Malazans in the beginning. SE teased us, giving us some info and insight to the Mott families and I have been dying to read about them.' I think the Mott Irregulars need their own book!
I'm still not sure what the heck Laseen's motivations are and I've finished this book. In some ways it seems like she knows more than she's letting on, then the next thing you know, she's done something really aggravating.
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Then, when she feels people are about to act, she can have
Maggie wrote: "It's my own opinion, but I think she is so paranoid of betrayal, and basically feels like everyone is going to betray her eventually, that she is of the 'keep your enemies close' line of thought...."
This kind of makes sense. But she's picking the wrong people to keep around her (Mallick Rel and Korbolo Dom) and driving those who want to be loyal away (Tavore and the Ninth).
Lee wrote: "Thanks for that Shelley. That does make sense. There are all sorts of potential "big stories" going on all over the place.
The 2 guards on the Otatarial Island with Ho, Bala (sp?) the mage with t..."
I began to realize that Laseen was a vehicle to drive the Empire, and nothing more....for Shadowthrone!! Him and the Rope have a need and they use her fears against her! Remember everyone this is ALL Shadowthrone's game!!
Kind of think the Seti are spreading themselves a bit thin. What distance is between the siege on teh Wickan plains and the seige at Li Heng?When did the siege at Li Heng happen? The last I read, Storo stopped the take over in the Palace, the next there are in lockdown.
I can't seem to engage as well with this story, I am either missing bits or not concentrating as much as I should. Maybe I have become so used to SE writing that the small differences are taking me out of my comfort zone.
Lee wrote: "Kind of think the Seti are spreading themselves a bit thin. What distance is between the siege on teh Wickan plains and the seige at Li Heng?When did the siege at Li Heng happen? The last I read, ..."
Yeah Lee I feel ya!!! I felt the same when I first read Return, all the story lines are all mixed up, with SE, he is really very organized, with all the varied plot lines paired into opposing chapters so you can one, keep everything organized in your mind and two, feel the convergence when it comes!!
As to when the siege starting in Li Heng, Storo and his crew stayed loyal to the Empire and so when they repelled the insurrections, that's basically when the siege started. At the same time that Rillish defended the Wickens in the Fort! So the Seti's at the moment have free rain!
Stonewielder really is ICE's best book to date, IMHO, you see him mature!! :)
Storo and his crew stayed loyal to the Empire and so when they repelled the insurrections, that's basically when the siege started But i did not think that the insurrection was driven by the Seti. I can't remember the guys name, but was well known by Storo. I just feel the whole insurrection, after events and subsequent siege was not very well written. Well, let me re-phrase that, it wasn't written at all.
I really feel that Li Heng is intergral to the story and whats about to happen there and I dont have enough back story, which is something I thought I would never say reading a Malazan book.
Anyway, onwards as they say, the convergence is about to happen. I have moved to book 2.
Lee wrote: "Storo and his crew stayed loyal to the Empire and so when they repelled the insurrections, that's basically when the siege started But i did not think that the insurrection was driven by the Seti...."
I agree with you Lee, with SE you'd get an extra 300 pages of information, you may still not understand things, but (and this is important) sometimes you're not supposed to!
ICE does warm up and his battles, and the character Nait make the ending very good!! :))
I'm so frustrated with this book. Lost. Confused. Way too many new characters. Too many scene switches. Characters talking about other characters that I think maybe I should know but I don't think I do. It's not terribly written. But would be better if I cared about the characters. To me it feels like trying to read The Bonehunters (or any of the later books) as your first Malazan book. Really struggling. Hate to give up. But very close.
Agreed that ICE's format is different then SE who seems to keep everything very organized!! ICE has everyone smoshed into each chapter and it is confussing!! Traci just hold on, you will enjoy the book, and it has a REALLY GOOD ENDING that you WON'T see coming!!!! :O Plus all the backstory you get on all the old timers is AWESOME!!!
I won't give in to the temptation to give up. If I did I couldn't read the next one. Or the new one when it comes out. I wish I had read it in the suggested order. Maybe next time. I'm almost at the end of part one and its becoming a little clearer.I actually think ICE does a great job of capturing the feel of the other books. If I didn't know I might think it was written by SE. Its just too much too fast. Imo.
In the prologue here-we get to see some history between The Son of Light and Draconus. We haven't seen that much about light yet, so it is good to get some clues!
In the main section, we meet Kyle, who is going to be a developing player here, a recent recruit into the Guard.
So far the Crimson Guard have been a little bit of an enigma, what with their rumoured immortality and the pledge to defeat Malazan.
Sounds like we are about to find out the other half of the story!