Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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Wicked Gentlemen
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October Read 2011: Wicked Gentlemen
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Yes! Exactly. This is the (what I find) challenging (stressful?) part of writing fantasy. It HAS to make sense. There have to be rules and logic to the magic and the supernatural/otherworldly elements.
It can't simply be a matter of making it up as you go along.
I advertised this in Ginn's thread. I'm looking forward to the discussion. ''Awesome'' doesn't even start to qualify this book! Here the cover as an hommage to the lovely art of Dawn Kimberling:
I think the hard part about writing fantasy is to introduce a new world in a natural way. You can't list the properties of the world to the readers, you have to let the characters live it in a natural way but still get vivid pitures across to the readers so they can build the world in their head.The thing that stood out about WG to me was actually not the world buildning but the understated romance. I like when the romance is not smack center of a story-line but understated romance can sometimes be... too understated? I loved how Ginn solved that by letting actions speak instead of words. Like stealing a glove, like trying to stop using, like risking a career to save the other.
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It's even more than that. I'm sure no matter how hard you plan some things will emerge during writing, but you can't pic..."
Yes. Granted, this is the problem in a lot of writing -- characters suddenly developing hitherto unknown abilities or resources to solve a seemingly insurmountable obstacle, but it's worse (much worse) in fantasy and paranormal because the genre does allow for magical saves and divine intervention.
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I hadn't read any steampunk previously so the JM Barrie-esque landscape really stood out for me.
I like when the romance is not smack center of a story-line but understated romance can sometimes be... too understated? I loved how Ginn solved that by letting actions speak instead of words. Like stealing a glove, like trying to stop using, like risking a career to save the other.
It's a wonderful blend of mystery and adventure and romance, I agree.
Forgot to mention that the characters in WG also really stand out to me. I don't know how to explain it, but to me they're sharp, outlined. Not simple, but clear. I feel I would recognise Belials sarcastic voice anywhere.If I compare to Lord of the White Hell (the next fantasy Ginn wrote) I feel the characters in that story were much more fussy. Maybe that was a side-effect of having a larger character gallery, but I felt even Javier (main character) got fussy in the edges now and then.
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That particular feeling is exactly why I decided to acquire the MS for Blind Eye Books in the first place. And I had to do a lot of arguing to make the case that WG was worth the money, because it's a very unusual book, structurally speaking.
Nicole wrote: "it's a very unusual book, structurally speaking"Care to explain? I don't catch this. Thank you in advance!
But whatever ''structurally unusual'' might mean, I think that a reader, and a publisher as well, would be able to grasp immediately the greatness of the story.
I think Antonella that it's the fact that there's a first part in Belimai's 1st-person POV and the second in Harper's 3rd-person POV. Or the fact that it's like two episodes of a story. Or I don't know, I know I loved it, lol, it was a revelation
Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "I think Antonella that it's the fact that there's a first part in Belimai's 1st-person POV and the second in Harper's 3rd-person POV. Or the fact that it's like two episodes of a story. Or I don't ..."Grazie, Emanuela!
I had thought of this, but I couldn't see why this should be a problem for a publisher or a reader.
As a reader I liked it and I must confess that I almost didn't realize it at first. I felt there was something different, I knew there was another POV, but I had to wonder for a few pages what had changed :)
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Yes. That was a risky choice for Ginn. Losing Belimai's voice from the narrative. But at the same time, it's wonderful seeing him through Harper's eyes.
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Because the book is strictly divided between the two view points. There's no moving back and forth. Part one is Belimai and part 2 is Harper. It's a choice you might find in literary fiction, but not typically in genre fiction.
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Here the cover as an hommage to the lovely art of Dawn Kimberling:
..."
I love Dawn's work. She did these little portraits for the press release sheets on Irregulars. I wish there was a way to share them. They're so clever and well done.
I'd suggest you check that she is properly mentioned everywhere. Because I've just noticed that on the postcard of ''Wicked Gentlemen'' there is no mention of her. You can see who's the author of the drawing only in the book itself.
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Sure. I think that's because we have so many publishers in this particular genre that began life as authors who couldn't get their work published through mainstream and spotted a great opportunity. That's not a criticism, it's simply fact.
So you have entrepreneurs with vision and daring, but on the flip side of that is a lack of business and publishing experience -- or even much of a literary background.
So we have really awful pubs and really excellent pubs. BEB is a really excellent pub and their partnership with Ginn has been advantageous for all concerned.
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Yeah, that's the main unusual structure. You've got it quite correct.
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Oh, I'm sure we'll find a way to share them :)
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Ha! I've told her to mention herself many times, but she forgets. Dawn is the actual publisher of Blind Eye Books, which is to say that she owns the company. So I think when she does illustration work for it, she just has an "all part of the service" mentality.
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Yes, it is. Normally something like that would be a dealbreaker for me. Technically WG is 2 novellas rather than one novel.
I'm looking forward to the discussion of Wicked Gentlemen. I liked it a lot and will gladly re-read it for this month's group read. I would be interested how other readers experience this break in structure because it wasn't so easy for me to get in the mood for the second part where it changed to 3rd person POV.
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Just how on earth am I supposed to wait patiently? I'm already having to do that for our December read! GAH! lol.
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You're building character, Jordan. This discipline is GREAT for you. ;-D
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I defy anyone to read just the first page of Wicked Gentlemen and not tumble head-first into that world. It's a brilliant, inspired piece of work that simply transcends genre -- one of the best books I've read in the past decade.
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The wait will prove well worth it, Jordan. Isn't that good to know? Imagine feeling such anticipation for a read that turns out to be as exciting as a reheated Happy Meal. ;-)
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However, I'm still excited.
Normally patience is my middle name. For most things. But for books... not so much. lol.
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Discussion starts on the 21st, I do believe.
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I began my re-read yesterday night and I don't know why I didn't catch the first time how the first lines, I hope I can quote themThe night hung in tatters.Gas streetlamps chewed at the darkness.
brought me into T.S. Eliot's The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherized upon a table;
[...]
The yellow fog that rubs its back upon the window-panes,
The yellow smoke that rubs its muzzle on the window-panes
Licked its tongue into the corners of the evening,
Lingered upon the pools that stand in drains,
Let fall upon its back the soot that falls from chimneys,
Slipped by the terrace, made a sudden leap,
And seeing that it was a soft October night,
Curled once about the house, and fell asleep.
Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "I began my re-read yesterday night and I don't know why I didn't catch the first time how the first lines, I hope I can quote them
The night hung in tatters.Gas streetlamps chewed at the darknes..."
Oh good catch. They are very alike aren't they?
I love that poem! I need to reread WG sometime this week. Why am I always behind???!
The night hung in tatters.Gas streetlamps chewed at the darknes..."
Oh good catch. They are very alike aren't they?
I love that poem! I need to reread WG sometime this week. Why am I always behind???!
I love that poem too. There are times that by the time I get to the end of it, I cry. I don't know why. I don't understand the half of it. There's a quiet desperation though that makes me ache. There's also a loneliness and a feeling of inadequacy and this feeling of seeing life from the outside and not participating that I think it's a little bit like Belimai at the beginning of the book.
Yes! That sense of melancholy, of being lost, not quite understanding the people/world around you.
I don't think anyone can take that poem apart and say "here's what this line means" and "this is what this poem is about". It's a mood piece more than anything, where the feelings get inside you and make you cry. Somewhere on youtube was a great reading of it by a man with a very deep baritone voice. Gave me shivers!
I don't think anyone can take that poem apart and say "here's what this line means" and "this is what this poem is about". It's a mood piece more than anything, where the feelings get inside you and make you cry. Somewhere on youtube was a great reading of it by a man with a very deep baritone voice. Gave me shivers!
Kate Mc. wrote: "Yes! That sense of melancholy, of being lost, not quite understanding the people/world around you.I don't think anyone can take that poem apart and say "here's what this line means" and "this is..."
Except for Khalil Gibran, I mostly read poems for mood too. And I'm so glad you guys also enjoy TS Eliot without fully understanding what he meant. I love The Waste Land most of all. Now I'm in love with Duino Elegies by Rilke. So beautiful.
Ok, enough derailing, carry on...
Cleon wrote: "I love The Waste Land most of all..."This is a bit Wicked Gentlemen-esque too:
A woman drew her long black hair out tight
And fiddled whisper music on those strings
And bats with baby faces in the violet light
Whistled, and beat their wings
And crawled head downward down a blackened wall
And upside down in air were towers
Tolling reminiscent bells, that kept the hours
And voices singing out of empty cisterns and exhausted wells.
I have never thought TS Eliot could be so steampunkish, lol
Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "Cleon wrote: "I love The Waste Land most of all..."This is a bit Wicked Gentlemen-esque too:
A woman drew her long black hair out tight
And fiddled whisper music on those strings
And bats ..."
I've always pictured TS Eliot strolling on London's streets at a cold night, smoking a cigar, the smog heavy in the air, looking at worn out people and beggars under the dim streetlights... Then he went home and typed or wrote about the bleakness of it all...
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This is a bit Wicked Gentlemen-esque too:
A woman drew her long black hair out tight
And fiddled whisper music on those strings
And bats ..."
Yes, you can see that Ginn's lyrical voice evolved from a passion and familiarity with poetry.
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If you're interested, it's OT, I know, but here'sT S Eliot Reading The Love Song Of J Alfred Prufrock
I like hearing authors reading their own works.
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So, I just finished reading this book over dinner and I don't know what I'm going to read before bed tonight.
Josh, I believe it was you who recommended Wicked Gentlemen for this month? Well, if it wasn't, whoever it was THANK YOU!!! This book was awesome, and I'm extra glad I have a print copy for my bookshelf. I know I'll be reading it again and again and again and again and...
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Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "I began my re-read yesterday night and I don't know why I didn't catch the first time how the first lines, I hope I can quote themThe night hung in tatters.Gas streetlamps chewed at the darknes..."
Great observation, Emanuela! Without a doubt, it was the raw beauty of the prose that drew me into WG.
Lisa wrote: "I do wish we knew more about what happened with Harper's stepdad and mom."I have just re-read the part where Harper remembers when his stepfather asked him why he wanted to become an Inquisitor, he ended up telling the opposite of what he was feeling for Prodigals. It's one of the most heartwrenching examples I've read of the damage you can do when what you feel is larger than what you are able to explain. So, yes, I would also love to know about his parents and how they met and what was Harper like before joining the Inquisition.
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That scene with Harper and his father WAS heart wrenching! I just felt so terrible for them both. But I'm glad there was a HFN ending. One never knows what could happen in the future, but I thought the ending was a good one for the book.
Q&A with Josh Lanyon
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Discussion begins October 22nd, so crack open your copy and commence perusing.