October Read 2011: Wicked Gentlemen

[Charming]

On this read I realized I would not have liked the first half much without the second half. Too dark and grim and hopeless. The second half still had the Crapsack World, but the protagonists weren't so helpless in the face of it, and that made all the difference.

[Emanuela ~plastic duck~]

Sorry for the rambling.

On this re-reading I tried to focus more on Harper than on Belimai. I think the first time you read the book, Belimai steals the spotlight, probably because he is the one we meet first, or because the first-person narration is more intimate, or because he is at a disadvantage in his world. I sort of re-discovered Harper. He tells or seems to imply that he's lost his faith, but it's as if he is aspiring to God (or to a spiritual dimension) through Prodigals. He told his friend Edward: Even the most degraded and ruined Prodigal is still closer to divinity than any of us born of Adam's flesh.

I also liked how private Harper is and how Belimai and Harper's romance is woven through the pages in a very private way. In the second part of the story, when Belimai is not on the page, he is with us nonetheless, because he is in Harper's mind, and we are waiting for him, we miss him and even the way Harper doesn't talk about him reveals how much he cares and protects him. Sometimes talking about feelings openly make them cheap.

As I said in a previous comment, I also savored Ginn Hale's poetry even more. The first time I read it I was attracted to Belimai's cynic and snarky comments, but they were clearly a shield to protect himself, because Belimai's innocence was betrayed during his detention by the inquisition and his gesture of love for a friend was turned against himself, making him feel guilty. It's as if Harper can see through the addicted Belimai and reach his childish, pure, naive soul. The way they banter is very relaxed and childish, sorry for repeating it. I also liked seeing Harper's jealousy and a bit of bossy attitude, because I imagine Belimai was the bossier between them until that moment.

I also found very poetic the part where Harper experiments Belimai's power through his blood, how the elements of nature - air in Belimai's case - bend to his power. When Harper lets himself be carried away by currents and Belimai goes and fetches him, it's light and simply beautiful.

Then a few scattered observations about the first part of the book.

In the tavern, I liked how Belimai got into Harper's personal space, playing with Harper's hat and then sharing the gin. When Harper took off the gloves and showed his perfect hands it was almost erotic. Wonderful.

I like seeing how at ease Belimai and Harper are with each other. It happens and they don't really question it.

The way Nickolas Sariel projects his desires with smoke is very sensual.

Even if both men are pretty private and not chatty and they've known each other for a short time, they are incredibly comfortable together. Harper's acceptance of Belimai probably comes from Harper's family history, not only from Belimai's attraction. It may be that he didn't want to put Belimai in danger, but didn't he know that he would put Belimai in a dangerous position nonetheless, exposing him to the attention of people close to the church and inquisition? Belimai was probably disposable at the beginning, but he was able to get under Harper's skin. They share loneliness, probably a feeling of not belonging.

I like Belimai's lies, how indifferent he is at being caught in them. They're small, useless lies, and Harper lets him get away with them.

Finished. Sorry. I adore this book.

[Jordan]

Emanuela, don't be sorry for the rambling! I think you hit everything spot on. And, since I seem to be brain dead today, I'm just imagining that you spoke for both of us. lol. I adored this book as well, and can't wait to reread it already!

[Antonella]

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, cara Emanuela! I loved to read your insight about Belimai and Harper.

And now I'm going to re-read the book, I can't remember if it is the third or the fourth time ;-)

[Becky]

I can appreciate the beautiful language, but what I really read for is character. Belimai and Harper are such interesting characters. On the surface two people who have nothing in common and would never want to be together, the Prodigal and the Captain of the Inquisition. They should almost be natural enemies.

The story of why Harper joined the Inquisition was heartbreaking. And the description of the conversation with his step-father-- it's like a classic case of homophobia. He couldn't admit to his true desire, so instead it came out as hate. I wonder what happened to the step-father. It sounds like he just disappeared one day. I wonder if Harper's rant had anything to do with it. I'm sure Harper thinks so.

It was so satisfying to see Harper fly during the escape from White Chapel. It was a dream come true for Harper, to be as a Prodigal, at least for a little while. That he got to share the experience with Belimai, and that he kissed him in mid-air is, to me, the most romantic moment of the book.

It was interesting in part two to see Belimai and Harper change places a little bit. It was Belimai who was logical and reasonable, saying that Harper would insist on following him into danger and that Belimai should be given the same opportunity. If asked which character I thought would have said that, it would have been Harper. But when it happens, it feels perfectly natural coming from Belimai. It doesn't feel like a violation of his character at all. Maybe because we're in Harper's POV, and he looks on Belimai with kinder eyes than Belimai does himself. Belimai would probably have some snarky thing to say in his head about the whole thing.

I thought it was fascinating that Harper walked away from the promotion in the end because he felt he'd be no better than Abbot Greeley. My attitude was basically the same as Belimai's, that Harper would be the good guy, bending the rules for all the right reasons. But he was right that it's a dangerously corrupt place to rule from.

At the end I find myself hoping that they're able to make a home and new lives for themselves at Foster Estate. They both have so much to heal from, somethings that they'll never heal from. But if they are careful, I think they could meet both their goals-- to get away from the city and to be happy.

[Emanuela ~plastic duck~]

Becky wrote: "I thought it was fascinating that Harper walked away from the promotion in the end because he felt he'd be no better than Abbot Greeley. My attitude was basically the same as Belimai's, that Harper would be the good guy, bending the rules for all the right reasons. But he was right that it's a dangerously corrupt place to rule from."

Yes, it was perversely satisfying to see that. You know, there's the Law and there's Justice and as we all know, they don't always coincide, so to have Justice sometimes you have to break the Law. Harper killed Branson, made him sign a false confession implicating the abbot, he used their means to bring them down. It was very enjoyable to read :-)

I think that Harper didn't accept the promotion because he did what he did because he wanted revenge, not justice.

[Jordan]

I agree that when Belimai said Harper would follow him, so he should follow Harper, it did come out natural. I remember stopping at that point, and rereading that line, going "what? He said what? I didn't expect that out of him." And yet, it belonged coming from him. It showed how much he'd changed in the short time since meeting Harper.

I was also glad to see Harper quit his job too, and not take the promotion. I think that surprised Belimai but made him very happy in the end. I know I would have been if I were him!

[Josh]

I'm trying to compare my original feelings on my first read with my feelings now.

The first time I read it, which was a few months after it had been released, I began it with a sense of dread. Which seems funny to me now.

I had put off reading it because it sounded like it might be tragic or gruesome or just too fantastic. (I wasn't reading any fantasy at the time -- hadn't read much in years.) I'd never read anything featuring a demon, and I didn't see how THAT could end well. ;-D

But I really liked Ginn through our brief online interactions, and the book had stellar reviews and word of mouth, so one day I finally opened it and I believe I was hooked from the first sentence.

There was such an instant, evocative sense of time and place, and the story moved along at a fast clip, and within the first chapter I was engrossed and fearful for Belimai.

Really, that sense of dread, of something awful going to happen, stuck with me throughout much of the book. Many, many times I wanted to read ahead. In fact, the only reason I didn't was I'd heard the last line quoted so many times.

From a writing standpoint, I was busily observing and taking notes. I really loved Ginn's style and I think she was probably the first writer I bumped into in this genre who I realized I couldn't out-write.
;-D

Damn her.

I was unaware of Steampunk, so the world building seemed especially original (and it is excellently done, no question). There were Barrie-esque elements I recognized and loved, and the fact that it was all a kind of mystery novel just made it better.

When the second novella begins, I felt a sense of loss that we no longer had Belimai's voice, but I liked having the insight into Harper. His voice is not as compelling as Belimai's, but it's still well done and I think we need his perspective to get the complete story.

[Jordan]

lol, well said Josh. I was prepared for losing Belimai's voice for the second half since I'd been warned here on the threads, so I don't know how that affected how I would have read it if I hadn't had that warning. But, I definitely agree that his perspective completed the story, for sure.

I didn't know about steampunk until just a few months ago, really, maybe a year at most, and I can't wait to read more of it. It seems really pretty cool to me, and I think Hale did a fantastic job drawing us a picture we could step into, as if we were actually there, smelling the smells, and seeing the people stumble along in Hells Below. She's great with detail, in a way I probably never will be, that's for sure. Thankfully, each and every author has their own strengths and weaknesses, and that's a good thing. You write one way, she writes another. lol, she's probably thinking she can't out write you in some other dimensions.

I don't how how you couldn't be hooked by that first sentence! I know I was. And then I couldn't put the thing down until I'd read the last line. A very fast, yet thoroughly enjoyable read for sure.

lol, I love your sense of dread over demons. And I'm glad there was a happy ending to give you a different perspective. I think it helped my perspective on demons too a little bit. Though Cleon's story for the HJD challenge had a good demon in it too, but I really like the idea of good demons, or even bad demons who do good and end up good people. There's just something about that which interests me for some reason.

[Josh]

This is a book that as much as I want a sequel -- and I do, very much -- I'm also okay with it stopping where it did and imagining where the characters went to next.

So while I would love a sequel, I don't feel that I was shortchanged in any way or that anything was left unresolved (except in the way that all stories are left unresolved unless we follow the characters to their death). In fact, this is a story where I've enjoyed ruminating and filling in the blanks. So many rich possibilities.

[Emanuela ~plastic duck~]

Josh wrote: "In fact, this is a story where I've enjoyed ruminating and filling in the blanks. So many rich possibilities."

Between the ending of the first part and the beginning of the second a few months pass, during which the relationship between Harper and Belimai continues and probably develops, but we don't actually see it happen, we see the effects of it. Even if I usually like knowing everything of the characters, I wasn't frustrated. When Harper, talking with Edward I think, remarks that he has been spending too much time with Belimai, since Edward can't grasp a sarcastic observation, I think that tells about them more of pages of interaction.

[Emanuela ~plastic duck~]

Jordan wrote: "She's great with detail..."

Yes, especially because she's not like a camera, the descriptions are filtered through the eyes and emotions of the characters.

[Emanuela ~plastic duck~]

Lou wrote: "I especially loved that despite all the tension and suspense there was a light touch of humor throughout."

That's what I thought too. The characters are so involved in their own survival, which they pursue in a very no-fuss way, that the obstacles they have to face are almost a given and they are overcome with such practicality that the read feels light.

[Josh]

Lou wrote: "I don't read much fantasy either. I'm afraid I associate it with pseud-medieval stories, plus magical creatures, and minus the restraints of historical accuracy. But I figured, if Josh like this bo..."

The humor, yes. I love the humor that infiltrates what could be a really grim story.

I read this during the period that I was reading tons of m/m and this story is probably the one I best recollect. It's still so vivid in my mind.

Like the scene where Belimai is recovering in the old nursery at Harper's family estate and he blows all the windows out with his shrieks. :-D Funny and poignant and so visual.

[K.Z.]

I must admit, I did wonder and blog about the sex scene. Not that it detracted one hair from my enjoyment of WG, but . . . Belimai does have (ouch-ouch-ouch!) very sharp teeth. Know what I mean? ;-)

[Charming]

Jordan wrote: I didn't know about steampunk until just a few months ago, really, maybe a year at most, and I can't wait to read more of it."

I am going to copy a comment I made on my M/M bingo group:


If you want to try steampunk (for free!), Shousetsu Bang*Bang had a steampunk issue last winter:

http://s2b2.livejournal.com/tag/issue29

I especially liked this one:

http://s2b2.livejournal.com/168145.html
Duet for Tenor and Transradial Orthosis
by shukyou

It's about a guy who has a very bad steam powered orthotic hand, and meets up with an inventor who makes him a better one.

[Josh]

Charming wrote: "Jordan wrote: I didn't know about steampunk until just a few months ago, really, maybe a year at most, and I can't wait to read more of it."

I am going to copy a comment I made on my M/M bingo gro..."

Thanks for the tip, Charming.

[Josh]

Also that train journey. I found that so tense and yet so tender.

I was so sure they wouldn't get away safely. And I was so relieved that they did.

[Jordan]

you know, I was thinking about a sequel right after I finished it and I wanted one at first. Because, yes, even though I thought it was going to be a thick slow read, it was actually very fast. And I thought, wow, too fast, I need more. But when I stopped to think about it, and to think what a sequel might entail, I began to realize this story didn't need a sequel and that I could be happy without one.

Overall, it's kind of odd, how the whole novel felt natural, from the "missing" sex scene to the months we don't get, to them caring about each other in a non-flowery way. It was just so... normal for those characters, but not so normal that it was boring to read about, you know? I also wondered about the sex scene, but at the same time didn't feel I was cheated out of it or anything. I didn't feel I was cheated out of anything in this book. Not at all.

Thanks for that tip Charming! I'll have to check it out. I actually just got the book Steampunk! that I can't wait to tear into. It's a YA, but it's supposed to be very good.

[Sagajo]

Josh wrote: "Also that train journey. I found that so tense and yet so tender.

I was so sure they wouldn't get away safely. And I was so relieved that they did."

I was so suprised when I realised that Belial actually had decided to try and get rid of his addiction. I never ever expected that, given the "speach" we got in the first part of the book, when Belial was a narrator. And I think I realised that first during the train journey... that was the ultimate act of affection from Belial imo, that's when I realised that this was beyond a curious fling from his side.

[Josh]

Sagajo wrote: "Josh wrote: "Also that train journey. I found that so tense and yet so tender.

I was so sure they wouldn't get away safely. And I was so relieved that they did."

I was so suprised when I realise..."

Yes. It tells everything without having to come right out and say, "I want to change my life for you."

[Karan]

Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "Lou wrote: "I especially loved that despite all the tension and suspense there was a light touch of humor throughout."

That's what I thought too. The characters are so involved in their own surviv..."

I thought as I read, this is what it must have been like during WWII or other time in history when a ghetto has been created. Hells Below is a ghetto and the individuals who live either in or outside have learned to survive the best they can within that framework, until even the unnatural state they live in takes on a natural quality.

[Calathea]

Is the question why Belimai's ancestors left their realms, bowed to the cross and settled in Hells Below actually answered in the book?

I'm still in the middle of my re-read and remember that (when first reading it) I thought "Why would they?". What made them come up from their depths and then stay in this ghetto? Maybe I overlloked it on the first read through as I'm constantly stumbling over details I missed the first time.

[Antonella]

Josh wrote: "There were Barrie-esque elements I recognized and loved, and the fact that it was all a kind of mystery novel just made it better."

Could you have mercy with someone who never read ''Peter Pan'' and quote some of those elements?

And what about Conan Doyle? I ask because of the dedication to Victor Trevor. Or is this a RL Victor Trevor I don't know about?

[Cheryl]

This was first time I've read this book and I had to use quite bit of willpower not to come into this thread every time I got nervous. It wasn't easy since people were posting almost as soon as the thread was opened!

I really enjoyed the juxtaposition of Mind Fuck and Wicked Gentlemen. Both featured worlds with an cruel, corrupt and unjust legal system, but told from different sides of the story. Mind Fuck was disturbing, but the world seemed so sterile and detached that it was easier to distance yourself from it, especially when viewed through Toreth's dehumanizing eyes. Wicked Gentlemen felt more visceral, especially the first half told through Belimai's perspective, the perspective of someone on the outside, someone who had already been through the system and come out physically and emotionally scarred. I was nervous and afraid for Belimai throughout most of the first half. I wasn't afraid at all for the second half, I'm not sure if that was due to the POV change or me just assuring myself that nothing too bad could happen to them at this point in the book. I think a lot of it was due to the change of voice, Harper, as an insider, while not safe at least knew how the system worked and could use that to some small advantage.

I was as struck by the beauty of the writing as many of you were. I found myself reading sentences a few times over or going back to find a particular paragraph because it was just so beautifully written or so poignant. The biblical phrases and the quote form the book of demons were wonderful and felt very authentic.

I want to read more of this world. I don't necessarily need a sequel to this book, though I would love to read that, too. I just want more stories set here, more background, more history, more characters. I could get as involved in this universe as others get in the Star Wars/Star Trek universes, or in the world of hobbits.

[Cheryl]

Calathea wrote: "Is the question why Belimai's ancestors left their realms, bowed to the cross and settled in Hells Below actually answered in the book?

I'm still in the middle of my re-read and remember that (whe..."

Calathea, I'm not sure how specifically this was addressed in the book, but i felt it had to do with trying to regain grace. That somehow by subjecting themselves to this life they were being given a chance to redeem themselves and achieve heaven.

I wondered at the way demon powers seemed to be weakening from one generation to the next. It made me wonder if there was much interracial breeding with humans diluting the powers, or if the decreasing power was a sign of the demons as a whole getting closer to humans and therefore closer to being saved.

[Jordan]

I didn't actually notice the decreasing power of demons... I'll have to reread it again to see where that came into play. (Oh darn, why would I ever want to reread such a wonderful book? lol)

But speaking of rereading it... I do want to. In fact, for some reason, I wish I had it with me right now. And I only just read it last week. There's something about that book that draws you in and keeps you hooked, even after you've read the last page.

Something I noticed, was that there didn't seem to be any actual angels in the world. Or, I guess they were off somewhere else, probably still in heaven, but they didn't have anything to do with the humans or demons? I found that kind of odd, but yet it was ok. I didn't feel the need that they had to be there, even though there were demons. I think not having them there made it more interesting a world, actually.

I also agree that it made a perfect follow up to Mind Fuck. They seemed to fit together so well, I didn't even realize it. If we'd chosen something sickly sweet, the difference would have been jarring. But these two really do work well together, even though one is much more harsh than the other.

[Emanuela ~plastic duck~]

Jordan wrote: "I also agree that it made a perfect follow up to Mind Fuck."

I agree too. Cheryl made a great observation.

[K.Z.]

Jordan wrote: "Something I noticed, was that there didn't seem to be any actual angels in the world."

Hm, I don't believe this even occurred to me. The world as Hale constructed it was so absorbing, I didn't (couldn't?) think beyond it.

[Cheryl]

My thought was that the angels were in Heaven, but the demons had left Hell and were only allowed as far as the human realm.

There wasn't much mention of decreasing power, but that was the impression I got. Belimai and Sariel were one of the last few with the ability to fly. I could be reading into it. I think there was another part where Belimai is looking at a painting of previous demons and finding it hard to believe himself related to them, thinking "the blood had thinned", which may have just been sarcastic self-deprecation.

[Antonella]

I had noticed that comment, which indeed could be interpreted in different ways, but Belimai also relates that Prodigals who could fly were rare and growing more so with each generation.

[Cleon Lee]

I just finish this book. Finally!

The first time I read it, I stopped at the part where Rofcalle was discovered because it's so gruesome. Institutionalized torture always always horrify me. I can identify with Harper, esp his anger of the injustice in the system he used to be in. But I love Belimai most, I love suffering hero I guess.

What strikes me most is that although I love reading about Harper and Belimai's blooming love, I find it the secondary. The book for me is about a world, a very cruel world parallel to the Middle Age and how Belimai survived and how Harper tried to find sense and justice in the midst of it.

That doesn't mean their love isn't important. If they don't have affection for each other the story would turn out very differently. Belimai wouldn't have tried to stop using ophomorium for one, let alone intending to surrender to Inquisition.

So glad there isn't more Belimai torture scene though. My stomach literally churned reading what's hinted or described about the brutality of the world.

[Jordan]

I love suffering heros too! Belimai was such a great character for that role. He was perfect.

Now I do recall him saying that about the flying. I guess it depends on how you interpret it, but that's certainly a big conclusion. I clearly wasn't thinking about that a great deal when I read it, but that little tidbit does make the world more interesting.

[Antonella]

I finished as well my (I'd say) third re-reading. What an awesome book! Probably I already said this.

I've got two questions.

1) page 194 of the print edition

Harper ask Belimai if he remembers the first time they slept together. And then says: ''You wanted to make sure that I didn't harbor any romantic inclination toward you. I assured you that I didn't''.
(And then the scene goes on and we all go ''aww!'' ;-).

But my question is: IMO that morning it was Harper who started to talk, to make sure that Belimai didn't harbor any romantic feelings. Not the other way round.


2)
Can someone explain exactly what happened when Belimai faced the Inquisition's torture to avoid even a small betrayal of Sariel? Apparently Sariel doesn't catch it either, so I'm not the only one unsure here ;-).

In their conversation on the roof (page 65) Belimai says that he didn't know that Sariel would have had to pay only 50 coins. So out of loyalty and love he tried not to betray Sariel because he thought his lover would end on the stake?

Thank you in advance!

[Josh]

Karan wrote: "Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "Lou wrote: "I especially loved that despite all the tension and suspense there was a light touch of humor throughout."

That's what I thought too. The characters are..."

That's a good observation!

[Josh]

Antonella wrote: "Josh wrote: "There were Barrie-esque elements I recognized and loved, and the fact that it was all a kind of mystery novel just made it better."

Could you have mercy with someone who never read ''..."

I don't have the book in front of me but the whole feel was very Peter Pan-like to me -- the Victorian landscape with that otherworld shadow falling across it. The descriptions of flying are I think what clicked. I picture Harper's sister as a kind of darkside Wendy. ;-)

You're right, it also does have a Sherlock Holmes vibe too -- again, it's the gaslight effect which is captured so well.

[Josh]

Cheryl wrote: " was nervous and afraid for Belimai throughout most of the first half. I wasn't afraid at all for the second half, I'm not sure if that was due to the POV change or me just assuring myself that nothing too bad could happen to them at this point in the book. I think a lot of it was due to the change of voice, Harper, as an insider, while not safe at least knew how the system worked and could use that to some small advantage. .."

I was feeling just the opposite. I knew Belimai couldn't die while he was narrating, so the switch to Harper scared me. I did not trust Ginn one little bit. ;-D

[Josh]

Cleon wrote: "So glad there isn't more Belimai torture scene though. My stomach literally churned reading what's hinted or described about the brutality of the world.
..."

I definitely didn't want to see that either. I'm apparently getting very squeamish in my old age.

[Cheryl]

Well, I didn't think he'd die, but I was afraid he might end up back in the hands of the inquisition.

Perhaps demon powers weren't diminishing. Maybe demons with certain powers were targeted by the Inquisition and given higher rates of execution. Jeez, that's a grim thought.

[Cheryl]

I love that anything questionable in the world-building doesn't draw me out of the story. Instead, questions draw me further in and make me want to read more and more of this world until I have all the answers.

Any theories on what, exactly, the prayer engines were and how they worked? At first I thought it was something only demons would be susceptible to, but then it was mentioned that they could be used on humans, too. I thought that was how Belimai came to have his scars, but maybe that was a different form of torture.

[Cleon Lee]

Josh wrote: "Cleon wrote: "So glad there isn't more Belimai torture scene though. My stomach literally churned reading what's hinted or described about the brutality of the world.
..."

I definitely didn't ..."

You should try Dusk Peterson's Eternal Dungeon Omnibus. *shudder*

[Cleon Lee]

Cheryl wrote: "Any theories on what, exactly, the prayer engines were and how they worked? At first I thought it was something only demons would be susceptible to, but then it was mentioned that they could be used on humans, too. I thought that was how Belimai came to have his scars, but maybe that was a different form of torture. "

NO! lol. I don't want to know.

[Emanuela ~plastic duck~]

Cheryl wrote: "Any theories on what, exactly, the prayer engines were and how they worked? At first I thought it was something only demons would be susceptible to, but then it was mentioned that they could be used on humans, too. I thought that was how Belimai came to have his scars, but maybe that was a different form of torture."


Maybe it's because I adore Kafka, but I think it was something like the device he depicted in his story (In der Strafkolonie) In the Penal Colony, but on a smaller scale. I'm citing wikipedia sorry I can't find a suitable translation:

In the Penal Colony describes the last use of an elaborate torture and execution device that carves the sentence of the condemned prisoner on his skin in a script before letting him die, all in the course of twelve hours.

ETA: I found the English Translation, it was at the bottom of the page. I think it's one of the best Kafka's stories. http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/kafka...

[Emanuela ~plastic duck~]

And here's a summary if you don't feel like reading the whole Kafka's short story.

[Cheryl]

Emmanuela, I haven't read that one. Thanks for the info, I'll be sure to check it out!

[Jordan]

I noticed that too, actually, but my mind kind of glanced over it for some reason. I think it was Harper who thought Belimai didn't want any relationship after their first encounter and started to say something before Belimai could. He didn't want to look bad, wanted to seem as if he already knew what Belimai wanted, even if he could have been wrong, because perhaps at the time that's what he wanted too. He assumed Belimai wanted it as well.

I'm not sure what happenedt to Belimai at the inquisition, but yeah, out of love he got tortured all for 50 coins, that he didn't know about. Crazy, huh? I wish I had a guy who would go to all that just for me.

[Cleon Lee]

Jordan wrote: "I noticed that too, actually, but my mind kind of glanced over it for some reason. I think it was Harper who thought Belimai didn't want any relationship after their first encounter and started to ..."

Not me, definitely. I'd rather die than having someone get tortured like that on my behalf.

[Jordan]

Oh, of course I'd rather die too. But just the idea that someone would go that far if they had to. Clearly, I'd stop them, at all costs to myself, as they would (hopefully) do the same for me if the roles were reversed.

[Cleon Lee]

Jordan wrote: "Oh, of course I'd rather die too. But just the idea that someone would go that far if they had to. Clearly, I'd stop them, at all costs to myself, as they would (hopefully) do the same for me if th..."

I know. It's just an uncomfortable thought.

[Antonella]

Jordan wrote: "I noticed that too, actually, but my mind kind of glanced over it for some reason. I think it was Harper who thought Belimai didn't want any relationship after their first encounter and started to say something before Belimai could. He didn't want to look bad, wanted to seem as if he already knew what Belimai wanted, even if he could have been wrong, because perhaps at the time that's what he wanted too. He assumed Belimai wanted it as well."

Thank you, Jordan! That's a plausible explanation.


About the machines: I had interpreted them like Manu, they carve prayers or holy verses in the skin.


About torture by the Inquisition: I cried when I found out how horribly was the philosopher and astronomer Giordano Bruno tortured (for real, not in a book). He was then burned at the stake in 1600 for his belief in the plurality of worlds and other heretical thoughts. Last time I went to Rome I was with a friend who brought flowers to the famous monument to Giordano Bruno in Campo de' Fiori, where he was burned.