The Time Machine Chapter 5 ~ 7

[Marialyce]

For discussion of these chapters

[Marialyce]

Wells mentions the rhododendron many times in his descriptions of the enviorment. This flower in Victorian times cautioned one to beware.
The symbolic meaning of the rhododendron is beware, I am dangerous and caution. Rhododendron means "rose tree." Some spices are toxic to animals and may have a hallucinogenic and laxative effect on humans, thus the symbolism related to warning and danger.

Within chapter V, we see Wells commentary on the idea of class. The Eloi representing
the wealthy, entitled class while the Morlocks that of the working class. Certainly this
chapter does cast aspersions onto the idea of capitalism. Through the Eloi, we see the
results of the haves of society....shiftless, enjoying the wonders of life, but quite stupid
and lacking the true knowledge of the world. In the Morlocks, we find a society of looked
down upon people, ones to be frightened of, ones to certainly be avoided.

[Sasha]

Interesting point about rhododendrons. That totally went over my head.

Okay, so now we're getting into Wells really talking about socialism*, yeah? I'm gonna try to summarize some of Marx and Engels' The Communist Manifesto despite it being over a year since I've read it: the idea is that the ruling class dominates the working or proletariat class, forcing them to do all the work while the rulers reap the rewards. They discourage movement between classes for obvious reasons (this movement being a predominant theme in Victorian novels).

Society ought long ago to have gone to the dogs through sheer idleness; for those of its members who work, acquire nothing, and those who acquire anything, do not work." (Marx p. 70)

In Wells' vision of the future, this has succeeded all too well. In fact, the two classes have evolved into different subspecies. The Eloi do no work whatsoever, and have lost most of their problem-solving skills; the Morlocks have an evolutionary drive to do work to support the Eloi, and live underground:

The exclusive tendency of richer people...is already leading to the closing, in their interest, of considerable portions of the surface of the land. About London, for instance, perhaps the prettier country is shut in against intrusion. And this same widening gulf...will make that exchange between class and class, that promotion by intermarriage which at present retards the splitting of our species along lines of social stratification, less and less frequent.

That passage comes near the end of Chapter Five; there are two more pages that continue in this vein, and I think this is where Wells makes his most direct political argument.

* For an explanation of the sometimes-hazy differences between socialism and communism, see this essay. An excerpt:

Socialists...see capitalism as a possible part of the ideal state and believe that socialism can exist in a capitalist society. In fact, one of the ideas of socialism is that everyone within the society will benefit from capitalism as much as possible as long as the capitalism is controlled somehow by a centralized planning system.

Wells was a self-proclaimed socialist, but I see clear echoes of The Communist Manifesto in The Time Machine, so I brought it in anyway.

[Marialyce]

What you said Alex certainly reflected Vicrtorian society from what I have read. They were certainly a group of haves and have nots. There was no middle ground really or any to speak of.

I know currently we often hear tell that the route we are heading here in America is one that purports Socialism as its base. Looking again at the above, I do tend to think that is where we are going should things continue in this vein.

Even though he wrote in many different genres, he is most recognized for his science fiction writings.

Interestingly Wells was considered to be a futurist, pacifist. as well as a socialist. He was born into a poor, unhappy family. He won a scholarship and was able to pursue his main interest which was science, studying under Aldous Huxley's grandfather. Unable to finish school and losing his scholarship, he later married for the first time. The marriage was a disaster and later he married one of his students and later still had his second child with another woman.

He ran in intellectual circles having such friends as Sir Julius Huxley (Aldrous' brother) and collaborated with his son a noted zoologist. His mind was very active and he developed his passion for reading when as a child he broke his leg and was forced to stay inactive.

“It is possible to believe that all the past is but the beginning of a beginning, and that all that is and has been is but the twilight of the dawn. It is possible to believe that all the human mind has ever accomplished is but the dream before the awakening”

[Sasha]

Thanks for that info about Wells! I didn't know any of that.

Marialyce wrote: "I know currently we often hear tell that the route we are heading here in America is one that purports Socialism as its base. Looking again at the above, I do tend to think that is where we are going should things continue in this vein."

Do you mean you think America is headed towards socialism? If so, I think this is one of those weird examples of how radically differently people can see their own countries: in my view, the disappearance of the middle class points to exactly what Wells was warning us about: a widening gulf between the haves and the have-nots. (Let's not get into a political debate, though; I'd prefer to leave it at "Funny how two smart people [well, okay, one smart person and me] can perceive things so differently, huh?" and get back to literature.)

[Bea]

So is the feeling that Wells is talking about the future as it would be without socialism? Because I would think socialism/communism and the disappearance of the middle-class are diametrically opposed. Bear in mind that is from someone who has not studied socialiasm, communism, or political thought deeply.

[Sasha]

Yep! No fear, you've totally got it right. This is Wells warning us of what the future might hold (in his socialist opinion) if we don't turn to socialism: a widening gulf between the haves and the have-nots, resulting in the human race actually splitting into two subspecies, neither of which has much going for them.

[Marialyce]

Alex wrote: "Thanks for that info about Wells! I didn't know any of that.

Marialyce wrote: "I know currently we often hear tell that the route we are heading here in America is one that purports Socialism as i..."

I do think so. Alex, but you are right we are not debating any politics. You know what they say to never talk about...politics and religion...

So I guess we think that Wells was quite a bright, astute man.

[Bea]

I believe Wells was also influenced by Darwin via the Huxley connection. That's something to think about with regard to this story as well. Though somehow the fittest do not seemed to have survived here!

[Sasha]

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of Darwin. Good point. And neither race is exactly fit, huh? Ha.

Lots of Darwin in The Island of Dr. Moreau, too.

[Marialyce]

As you read this 116 year old novel, is there anything that bothers you about the science part or does all of it just kind of gel with you?

[Sasha]

Not me! I think he's got a pretty good handle on how things work. I mean, the idea of humanity splitting into bright-eyed morons and murderous trolls seems unlikely, but then I look at the internet.

[Marialyce]

Very funny, Alex. Just wondering if anyone who is a "science" type person would be bothered by any of this.

interestingly, when the astronauts go at those amazing speed does not time speed up, so that they are seconds ahead of where they should be?

[Sasha]

Yeah, sorry - I couldn't resist.

Anyway. I'm not a scientist but sometimes I pretend to be while I read books about animals, so those are some pretty awesome qualifications, and I think he gets it.

So I guess he figures the Eloi have conquered the "survival of the fittest" rule. "Intellectual versatility is the compensation for change, danger and trouble" (ch 10), but "In a state of physical balance and security, power, intellectual as well as physical, would be out of place." (End of Ch. 4) That's kinda like the situation in Guam today; the birds there are so adapted to a life free of predators that when the brown tree snake was accidentally introduced 60 years ago, it almost completely wiped out every single one. They had lost their defense mechanisms.

As for the Morlocks, after being driven underground,

Such of them as were so constituted as to be miserable and rebellious would die; and, in the end...the survivors would become as well adapted to the conditions to the conditions of underground life...as the Upperworld people were to theirs. (End of Ch. 5 again)

So that's just like any other animal species that ends up underground, and he's explaining the process of evolution pretty solidly.

Yeah, I think Wells nails it.

ETA I edited this whole post because it was too long and dumb.

[Marialyce]

Do you think that by making the Morlocks sightless that Wells again brings forth more commentary of society. They can't "come into the light" can they? They can't become privileged.

What about the significance of the cannibalism? I do have a bit of a hard time with that as since I think the Eloi represent the titled classes, why did Wells have the "working" class, (Morlocks) feed off of them? Shouldn't it have been the other way round? Is it the workers way to extract revenge on the titled class?

[Sasha]

Ha, those are really good points.

Yeah - now that you mention it, Wells' explanation that more and more poor people are driven underground (like the London metro!) is a little forced, huh? (I mean, honestly, the poor are as often driven up - to teetering three-story tenements.) The Morlocks are underground because, symbolically, he wanted them there. And blind. Totally.

And I've been struggling with the cannibalism too. According to Marx, the only conclusion to a proletariat / ruling class is armed struggle; does Wells mean this to be the beginning stages? No, I don't think that holds water; he never gives any hint that the Morlocks are organized. Just that they sometimes prey on the Eloi.

Maybe it symbolizes everyday crime in London? "If you push the poor into the shadows, they will lurk there and occasionally strike back at you from them?"

Oh hey - Jack the Ripper was active in 1888; Time Machine was published in '95. Do you think it's possible Wells had him in mind?

[Chris]

Alex wrote: "...he never gives any hint that the Morlocks are organized."

Perhaps I'm reading between the lines a bit too much here, but what about the machinery that the Morlocks operate? In practice, machinery requires skilled maintenance, which to me insinuates some kind of education (at least apprenticeship). Mass production and production lines were first realized around 1860, so when Wells was writing this it was probably really taking off (I'm getting out of my depth here, historically speaking -- so feel free to correct me).

That said, does Wells ever explain the purpose of the machinery? It's been several months since I last read the book so I can't remember.

I do agree though that in other more directly discussed ways, including the concrete examples of the Morlocks' behavior, seem to point to them acting more like packs of predatory animals than something deliberately organized.

[Bea]

Wells says that the machinery is to keep the above ground society operating. The Morlocks are making all the Eloi's clothing, for one thing. Wells chalks this up to habit. The Morlock have the "habit" of serving the Eloi! I still don't get it.

[Marialyce]

Anna, that's what I am thinking that perhaps the roles are reversed and since the Morlocks are the caretakers of the machinery, they in fact,are the titled class. It does seem to make more sense at least to me especially in the idea of the aspect of cannibalism. The wealthy feeding off of the working poor. .....although the Eloi were not working were they?

[Sasha]

Huh...that's an interesting perspective. Since I'm totally hung up on the socialism argument, I'd be more inclined to say that Wells intended this as a warning about what Marx called inevitable: the working class by definition controls the economy, and after enough oppression they're bound to rise up and revolt. But I like that you're taking a completely opposite tack; I'm gonna roll that around in my head for a while.

[LauraT]

My impression in reading his description was that, more than describing an ipotetic future, he was describing a different planet! Too many differences: is it possible that we've changed so much?

[Jamie]

Marialyce wrote: "Very funny, Alex. Just wondering if anyone who is a "science" type person would be bothered by any of this.

interestingly, when the astronauts go at those amazing speed does not time speed up, so..."

One thing I am bothered with is that after so many years the plates would have shifted and England would not even be where it is today. The world would be totally different. There could be an ocean there for all we know. I find it interesting that there are no insects, bacteria, fungus, and hardly any other animals (pigeons were mention I think). I am guessing humans eradicated these as an improvement but you need animals and insects to help pollenate plants although wind would help and fruit trees would still be able to grow. In prehistoric times insects were large so it's interesting Wells cut them out completely.

The higher temperatures mentioned could be the result of the Sun slowly growing in radius and heating as it becomes a red giant star and the Earth being pulled towards the Sun. I don't known how much difference around 800,000 years would have but on Wikipedia it mentions life being able to last for another billion years.

Since humans have branched into two different species having the Morlocks attacking the Eloi would almost be like having a wolf eat a dog. Also, I feel like the tide is turning and the Morlocks are starting to gain control. The scenarios I see are the Eloi being killed off for food and the Morlocks having to turn to themselves, fruit, or starve or the Eloi reproduce at a rate that keeps things like it is until the Morlocks use their skills to take over or the Eloi gain skills to fight off the Morlocks.

[Marialyce]

I think that the predictions of the future do have that eventually the sun will burn itself out, become a black hole and assimilate everything around it including planet Earth.

I also thought I read that humans were suppose to get more and more intelligent and that we were suppose to become more brain than brawn. Right now we only use about 10% of our brain's capacity. In 800,000 years from now who knows what abilities our brains will perform that are only guessed at now. Things like heightened ESP, telekinesis, reading another's mind, etc. might be our future. The need for our body or certainly some its parts might result in their not being there somewhat like our appendix now. It was used in the past but has not a function now.

[Sasha]

I'm not sure about this, but I feel like I remember Wells specifically mentioning that there were no bugs, and assuming that we'd wiped out the annoying creatures. Can anyone confirm or deny? If so, you're right Jamie: that's a science fail, as wiping out insects would cause a catastrophic chain reaction.

Also a good point re. plate shifting. I have no idea if we knew about that back then.

Eventually, the expansion of the Sun (prior to its collapse) will result in higher temperatures on Earth. I'm not sure what the timeline is, or whether that's my ignorance or global ignorance.

I'm under that impression too, Marialyce: we're supposed to be getting smarter. Wells' opposite vision seems more or less scientifically viable, but unlikely; I'd say that part was more "making a point" than "this is really the most likely scenario."

BTW: Ipotetic, for anyone else who doesn't know that word: hypothetical.

[Jamie]

I feel like history has a way of repeating itself. To this day we question how the pyramids were built and with such percision to north, south, east and west and other things as well. Much knowledge has been lost. I think there was a huge fire sometime during the Romans and spreading of Christanity that destroyed a library and we lost many important documents. Also, though Wells would not know (although machines were thought of at the time) war and the weapons we have could cause us to revert back to simpler times. Both species seem to be continuing what was done years ago. Being in a pattern could have made them lose knowledge and technology. (think of how cursive hand writing is not required now in Indiana schools. These kids will lose the ability to even read it. Continue things like this for thousands of years and who knows what you lose)

[Sasha]

Yeah, Caesar "accidentally" burned down the Great Library of Alexandria and all 40,000 of its books. Jerk.

[Jamie]

That would be it.

[Scott]

Marialyce wrote: "I think that the predictions of the future do have that eventually the sun will burn itself out, become a black hole and assimilate everything around it including planet Earth.

I also thought I re..."

[Scott]

The condition of the sun is not the only factor in the earth's tempereature. There is a 30,000-year cycle in which the orbit of the earth around the sun goes from circular to more elliptical. This is the most widely held theory of glacial cycles. When the orbit is circular, temperatures are moderate, as they are now. As the orbit becomes more elliptical, the earth is closer to the sun part of the year, but twice as far away at opposite seasons. The result is that equatorial areas get hotter, while areas father from the equator become colder, freezing some of the oceans, resulting in mass migration of people. I think that investigations of the glaciers in the Alps were in their infancy in Vic times. BTW, the earth is at the peak of the curve, at its warmest, so the earth is starting to get colder, however, mankind may be reversing this trend.