Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
discussion
"Please, Severus."
Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him cuz he was suffering and Snape was a bit skeptical about it but when Dumbledore pleaded he did it.
Snape was a good guy.i mean James wasnt exactly the best to him n still he protected Harry.And he did right by killing Dumbledore cuz thats what he had asked for.
Well, when I first read it, I was sure Dumbledore was pleading with Severus to get Draco out of there, and not kill him. I wasn't really looking into it too much; I had never liked Snape, and I still don't. I don't enjoy horribly bitter characters, no matter how strong they are. I admire him, yes, but I do not like him. So, because of this, I was perfectly ready to accept the idea that Snape was evil. Why not? Lots of stories have traitors. Plus, after Hermoine, Harry has always been the character that I feel I understand the best. Therefore, when Harry hated Snape, I hated Snape. (The same cannot be said about how Harry was freaking out about Draco. I thought he was being obnoxious. Turns out I was wrong there too. I didn't really have my wits about me when I read this book. ;) ) It also didn't help that Snape attacked Harry with such vehemence outside Hagrid's cabin. (They ruined that in the movie. Alan Rickman made it waaaayyy to obvious that Snape was really a "good guy.") Of course, I understand everything perfectly now. After Snape's memories, I nearly smacked myself on the forehead for being so naive. But hey, I was in 8th(?) grade. I wasn't all that intuitive. And there really weren't that many signs. Besides, at the time, people were more concerned with whether Dumbledore was dead or not, which I always argued fiercly with "OF COURSE HE IS, YOU CRAZIES!" So I didn't really put much thought into Snape. Like I said, I already didn't like him anyway.
i thought dumbledore was asking snape to help him because he was so badly hurt. when snape did what he did, i hated him! i was shocked and soo mad! i was actually kinda pissed when he turned out to be a good guy. and yeah i didn't like how the movie lets you in on the secret before you should know. everyone should have walked way from the movie hating him.
Laura wrote: "i thought dumbledore was asking snape to help him because he was so badly hurt. when snape did what he did, i hated him! i was shocked and soo mad! i was actually kinda pissed when he turned out to..."Why? Why should millions of people hate Snape? I for one thought he was brilliant, I mean sure I was upset when he killed Dumbledore but he was the only one who stood up to Harry Potter. Everyone else though he was the amazing boy who lived but Snape was right, Harry's dad was a terrible bully and he had every right to hate him. Now putting years of terrible bullying together and James marrying the love of his life I don't blame Snape at all for being the way he was or how he treated Harry. Even in the first book you realize he saved harry from Professor Quarrel(Spelling?) I knew that Snape was not the bad guy and overall he became my favorite character and now I know why.
Avada Kedavra! wrote: "Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him cuz he was suffering and Snape was a bit skeptical about it but when Dumbledore pleaded he did it."Oh! When he was pleading, he was pleading for Severus to DO it--to kill him. Oh. Wow. I am slow. Revelations, man.
@Love~Like~Woe: I just gave you my reasons for thinking Snape was the "bad guy." So you always thought Snape was pure at heart? See, a lot of people say the same thing, and I just don't get it. He was rarely anything other than mean, both to the other students as well as Harry. And hating the father of a child does not give you the right to hate the child itself. Especially when the child has never done anything to you, ever. Besides, I don't think James was the only one who was a bully. I'm sure Snape taunted and cursed James when given the chance, and Lily had mentioned the horrible people he hung out with and how they tortured other students. James and Snape just hated eachother, like so many other teenage boys.I don't think J.K. should have written his character any differently though. I agree that he was wonderfully defined and very interesting. So, as a character, I liked him. As a person, I didn't. Like I said before, I have always been able to understand Harry quite well, even when I don't always agree with him. In this case, I agree that Snape was horribly cruel to him from the start. I mean really, what did Harry actually do to deserve the loathing that Snape expressed? And he "stood up to Harry Potter"? Why would he need to "stand up to" a little 11 year old orphan who is horribly disoriented and wonderfully happy with his new life? Harry wasn't a bully, he was anything but. Like Dumbledore said, Snape only saw the characteristics in Harry that he was expecting to see, and couldn't look past them. I don't think he is evil, though his true intentions will always be debatable. If it had not been for Lily, who would he have become?
And its Quirrell.
I love Snape always have and always will in the beginning he was mean but I knew he would be a great part in the book later on.I'm not saying he isn't mean and rude to Harry and most people but I feel really bad for him.I mean he loved one girl forever(Lily) and she loved the man he hated the most (James) and he just got really angry so he became a death eater I think that if they didn't get married He wanted to be one but..........you know
When I first read the book and that scene I was all "that traitor -continues rant" but right after I read it I went on a forum to discuss and someone placed up a good argument in favour of Snape and this instantly convinced me that Snape was a good guy or at least he was on Dumbledore's side. They broke down that scene and said Dumbledore was begging Snape to kill him and Snape didn't want to do it, and he was angry at having to do such a thing and so on. So I can't remember if I trusted Snape before the end of book 6 but I did trust him before I started book 7.
I knew Snape was a good guy just because that's how these stories work. Build up someone as being horrible, then *TWIST* they were actually good all along. Remember in the first book where we think Snape is casting spells to make Harry fall and then it turns out taht was a protective spell against the bad guy? So it was obvious early on that Snape, on the one hand, is protecting Harry and on the other hand hates his guts. What I couldn't figure out was why. In the end when everything comes out, of course it makes sense.As for killing Dumbledore, I didn't figure out it was planned. I thought maybe Snape did turn to bad again. In the movie they didn't do it right because "please" came off as an order rather than a plea so it was obviously a setup.
Masha wrote: "I knew Snape was a good guy just because that's how these stories work. Build up someone as being horrible, then *TWIST* they were actually good all along. Remember in the first book where we think..."
I thought(I didn't really know)that the death of Albus was planned because he froze Harry when he could have stopped Draco.
I thought(I didn't really know)that the death of Albus was planned because he froze Harry when he could have stopped Draco.
i thought he was a bad guy but after reading number seven i thought he just did it so he could keep his cover. so he could protect harry and defeat voldemort
the thing that I think is weird about this is that actually VOLDEMORT KILLED DUMBLEDORE. The ring poisoned him. Snaped just hurried up the proces.
I will never think that Snape was innocent or good or amazing, I honestly don't like him. He is a horrible human being, but a brilliant character. I think Dumbledore might've either added it for effect or he just wanted to remind Snape of what he still had to do.
but since he died because of Snape ultimatly Voldemort couldent use the wand.
Jdfield wrote: "the thing that I think is weird about this is that actually VOLDEMORT KILLED DUMBLEDORE. The ring poisoned him. Snaped just hurried up the proces."Great point. All that happened, really, is Snape saving Draco from doing the kill AND protecting his cover at the same time.
~Love like Woe!~ wrote: "Laura wrote: "i thought dumbledore was asking snape to help him because he was so badly hurt. when snape did what he did, i hated him! i was shocked and soo mad! i was actually kinda pissed when he..."millions of people should have hated snape because that's how the author wanted it. or there would have been clear signs he was good in the book like in the movie.
Snape was always my favourite character and I kept faith with him during the events of this book. This was partly cos I loved him but there were also several points in the book that gave a hint that this was pre arranged by Dumbledore.
The scarred hand. We are given a int that it could be the sign of an impending death when Hermione remarks'It looks like its died'. Since we are not given a total explanation it linked in with my pre arranged death theory.
Also the conversation Hagrid overhears when Snape tells Dumbledore he 'doesn't want to do it anymore'.This was never explained fully either and I thought J.K was too good a writer simply to put this in and forget to tie it up.
The 'Please Severus',could have been interpreted in numerous ways.
Finaly the whole relationship between Snape and Dumbledore. We are always told that Dumbledore trusts him implicitly but never elaborates as to the reasons and this gave me the impression that he would and Snape had a close and frank relationship and that if he had something in mind along the lines of planning his own death Snape would be the one he went to.
J.K often commented in interviews that there was a lot more to Snape than we believed and that he would keep us guessing until the end.
I don't whether my desire for him not be pure evil prompted me to look for proof or that I would have come to the same conclusions if he had not been my favourite character. I think J.K left just enough evidence to keep us guessing,just like she promised. So I don't think that the people who believed he was guilty were being unintelligent or missing anything obvious. It would have been just as plausible if he had been just a pure evil piece of scum all along and was deceiving every character who believed in him and every reader like myself. I just went with my instincts like in a good whodunnit. Either way he was a fantastic character and his story kept me guessing right to the end. Which is why I love J.K.
The scarred hand. We are given a int that it could be the sign of an impending death when Hermione remarks'It looks like its died'. Since we are not given a total explanation it linked in with my pre arranged death theory.
Also the conversation Hagrid overhears when Snape tells Dumbledore he 'doesn't want to do it anymore'.This was never explained fully either and I thought J.K was too good a writer simply to put this in and forget to tie it up.
The 'Please Severus',could have been interpreted in numerous ways.
Finaly the whole relationship between Snape and Dumbledore. We are always told that Dumbledore trusts him implicitly but never elaborates as to the reasons and this gave me the impression that he would and Snape had a close and frank relationship and that if he had something in mind along the lines of planning his own death Snape would be the one he went to.
J.K often commented in interviews that there was a lot more to Snape than we believed and that he would keep us guessing until the end.
I don't whether my desire for him not be pure evil prompted me to look for proof or that I would have come to the same conclusions if he had not been my favourite character. I think J.K left just enough evidence to keep us guessing,just like she promised. So I don't think that the people who believed he was guilty were being unintelligent or missing anything obvious. It would have been just as plausible if he had been just a pure evil piece of scum all along and was deceiving every character who believed in him and every reader like myself. I just went with my instincts like in a good whodunnit. Either way he was a fantastic character and his story kept me guessing right to the end. Which is why I love J.K.
Suzanne wrote: "Snape was always my favourite character and I kept faith with him during the events of this book. This was partly cos I loved him but there were also several points in the book that gave a hint tha..."Ah, excellent review. I agree with you 100%. Even though I myself couldn't see all of the hints, (again, I was in 8th grade) I saw them all very clearly when the truth came out. And I guess I never really took into account Dumbledore and Snape's relationship. It was a clear sign that something else was going on, I just ate up the book too fast to see it. That's one of the problems with reading a book in a day, you tend to miss things. Unless your a freaking super genius! (Which, I suppose, some of you could be.) ;)
Emma wrote: "Suzanne wrote: "Snape was always my favourite character and I kept faith with him during the events of this book. This was partly cos I loved him but there were also several points in the book that..."
Thank you. I read the 7th book in a day and then went back and read it more slowly and found there were bits that I missed the importance of the first time. I think I'll be rereading Harry Potter in my nineties and will probably still be finding bits I missed before.
Thank you. I read the 7th book in a day and then went back and read it more slowly and found there were bits that I missed the importance of the first time. I think I'll be rereading Harry Potter in my nineties and will probably still be finding bits I missed before.
It's funny, but when I first read this book, my immediate reaction to "Severus... please..." was what turned out to be the truth - that Dumbledore was pleading for Snape to get on with it. Not to spare him. It seemed inconsistent for Dumbledore of all people to beg for his life. And I was sure there would be some great revelation about Snape's true loyalties, and I couldn't believe it when Snape fled the grounds and it looked like, after all, he was a bad guy. After all Dumbledore's trust in him, which I did not believe had been fully explained, if nothing else it would be an awful message to get from this book: don't give someone a second chance because they never change. Despite all the evidence I wanted to believe in Snape. If he was good, he was the most interesting character of them all - highly unpleasant and yet on the side of right. If, after all, he was a villain, that complexity of character was lessened. And yet, he'd killed a man, an act that was stressed in the book as literally soul-destroying. I couldn't get around that. I never subscribed to DumbledoreIsNotDead.com ;) and indeed once we arrived at the tower, the outcome seemed inevitable. I didn't feel surprised at all. It wasn't until I reached the end of the book that I thought maybe Snape was a villain after all. I really hoped that wasn't the case.
When Dumbledore says "Severus, please" I thought in his mind Dumbledore would rather his death be on Snape's head then on Draco's, who I believe was only 17?? Snape at this point had already killed somewhere along the way when he was deep into the DeathEater's I'm sure, but Draco, nasty as he was, was still relatively innocent. Afraid once Draco kills someone in cold blood something inherently changes inside u and it becomes much easier to be evil and to kill again and again. Just my thought. Been quite awhile since I read the series (1 year+) so hoping to pull it out again soon! Great Thread
Katie wrote: "It's funny, but when I first read this book, my immediate reaction to "Severus... please..." was what turned out to be the truth - that Dumbledore was pleading for Snape to get on with it. Not to s..."That's exactly what I thought. My first reaction was, "When has Dumbledore ever pleaded? When has he ever showed weakness in a life or death situation? (because in the BOOK his plea is pathetic, not a command like it was in the movie)" It had to be a set-up.
I was on team Snape from the 4th book on, I think. The quickness that Snape took to Ddore's orders at the end of book four, and when Ddore asked him if he was "prepared to do," what they had planned for him.. i knew something was up. There had to be something there. I didn't know what it was, and I CERTAINLY didn't know that it was Lily that kept him a good-guy, but I kept a torch burning for Snape. :)
That was brilliant, quite a mature thing to do as well. Dumbledore knew Snape would be able to do it, based on his character! I don't see any other character being able to do what Snape was entitled to perform. I admit at first we can't accept that Dumbledore is dead, but later on everything falls into place ;)
I kinda wish Dumbledore didn't die I mean it was a good story but I really liked him.
~NeRdFigHteR~ wrote: "Laura wrote: "i thought dumbledore was asking snape to help him because he was so badly hurt. when snape did what he did, i hated him! i was shocked and soo mad! i was actually kinda pissed when he..."I completely agree with your comment about not hating him. I mean James really was a jerk and Harry was a bit of an arrogant hothead so yeah I think that after all the books Snape was an amazing person that I revere almost more than Dumbledore now.
You're exactly correct Marie that's the samething I felt
One of the brilliant things about this book series is that Rowling writes "real" characters. Few people are 100% good or 100% evil, 100% right or 100% wrong. Snape had his bad qualities and also his incredibly noble ones. Dumbledore was generally wise and good, but he made mistakes and misjudgments as well. This is a lesson that Harry continually learns throughout. For instance, he's horrified to learn that his dad was a bit of a jerk, but eventually can accept that he was basically a good guy overall. And while he hated Snape for 6+ years, in the end, he discovered one of the bravest men he'd encountered. No one is one dimensional. It's a good lesson for us all.
I think that it was all part of the act.
i forgot but dumbledor told him to . they planned it. something about the elder wand i forgot
i have never liked Severus, until i saw the last movie (havent read the book yet, on the 5th one) and i LOVEE him now!! he is my fav character!!!
Hanna when did you come to this group?saw your comments at harry's dad too
I'm not sure what the pleading on the tower was, but I think it was part of the "act" so it made it look like Snape killed him on Voldees orders, but he really killed him because DDore asked him to (he was already dying).
Katniss990 wrote: "I'm not sure what the pleading on the tower was, but I think it was part of the "act" so it made it look like Snape killed him on Voldees orders, but he really killed him because DDore asked him to..."He was pleading with Snape to follow through on the plan as Snape was reluctant to do it in the end. In the movie it came across as more of an order, which defeated the whole point.
Emtee wrote: "Why? Snape was a product of his environment. He was who he was... starting with an abusive childhood, school years filled with both emotional and physical bullying from the supposedly good guys who..."I don't think everyone changed their view about Snape after reading the last book, I still don't like him and know quite a few people who detest him as much or maybe more so. Yes, he may be a brilliant character, but he's a horrible person.
HE WASN'T a horrible person! Snape was a good guy. He never really wanted to be a Death Eater.
Snape had both good and bad in him. Even as a child/teen he had an arrogance about being pureblood, which is one of the things that turned Lily off. So he was susceptible when he got an opportunity to become a Death Eater. He does get redeemed because of his love for Lily and because Dumbledore gives him a chance, but to say he was a great person all along would be overstating and unfair to the complexity of the character.
Well, yeah, I guess from before Harry he wasn't all good. A lot of bad.
Suzanne wrote: "Snape was always my favourite character and I kept faith with him during the events of this book. This was partly cos I loved him but there were also several points in the book that gave a hint tha..."Perfection.
Marie wrote: "HE WASN'T a horrible person! Snape was a good guy. He never really wanted to be a Death Eater."Yes, he was. He chose being a Death Eater over Lily, he wanted to become a Death Eater from the very beginning.
This by far was one of the SADDEST moments of any of the Harry Potter books. I cried. A lot. :(And to always knowing Snape was a good guy? Uh, no. I thought he was evil, up until the point where you find out he was protecting Harry.
William wrote: "This by far was one of the SADDEST moments of any of the Harry Potter books. I cried. A lot. :(And to always knowing Snape was a good guy? Uh, no. I thought he was evil, up until the point where ..."
Yeah, I was completely played by J.K.
Snape killing Dumbledore was part of the plan. Dumbledore was dying from a curse and this way Snape could unquestioningly confirm his allegiance to Voldemort. Snape and Dumbledore were close friends, with Dumbledore a father figure to Snape, so Snape had trouble going through with it.By the way, I did always think Snape was good at heart. But, Snape was, at the same time, a bitter angry person.
When I first read it, I didn't think for a second that Snape was good, or doing this for anything but awful reasons. Possibly because I was too busy being horribly, horribly upset over Dumbledore, but still. Maybe I was missing the obvious, but I honestly believed that Dumbledore was begging to be helped. I'm probably just stupid for that, though. And I've never thought Snape was good, not even after DH. He was strong, and he did things that most probably couldn't have, but I don't believe he is a good person because of it. Yes, he loved Lily, and yes, she got 'taken' from him by somebody he despised. It was sad, I'm sure. But he was a Death Eater. He didn't care in the slightest until it was somebody he cared about getting hurt. He admits as much, if I remember the book right. A great charater, sure, but somebody who deserves all our sympathy? No, not for me, anyway.
Lily wrote: "When I first read it, I didn't think for a second that Snape was good, or doing this for anything but awful reasons. Possibly because I was too busy being horribly, horribly upset over Dumbledore, ..."Agreed.
Andre wrote: "Snape killing Dumbledore was part of the plan. Dumbledore was dying from a curse and this way Snape could unquestioningly confirm his allegiance to Voldemort. Snape and Dumbledore were close friend..."Completely agree. Empathy, yet not.
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SPOILER ALERT
I mean, He killed Ddore, and we have no evidence up to this point to believe that they planned this, or that Snape is a good person at all, other than the fact that Ddore trusted him.
I have my own opinion on why I felt he was innocent.. what about you guys?