Dune Fanatics discussion
Newer Series of Dune
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That's my hope too. And the rest of the proposed trilogy should give us origin info on other schools of interest.The Honored Maters origins were given in The Sandworms of Dune. But I'd like to get more info even though I'm not as interested in them as the Bene Gesserits.
I know that millions of Dune fans the world over will want to lynch me for saying this, but I find the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson books to be more consistently entertaining than the originals.Dune is one of the greatest books ever written, and will remain so for all time, but the rest of the original series was sporadic at best. God Emperor of Dune was quite boring, and even at their best, the rest of the series didn't come anywhere close to Dune.
Brian's material on the other hand, has been great. I have not read all of them, but I have read most of them, and I have yet to find one that I did not thoroughly enjoy.
Colin wrote: I know that millions of Dune fans the world over will want to lynch me for saying this, but I find the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson books to be more consistently entertaining than the originals...Bravo, Colin! That took balls. I think I have a crush on you (*joking*).
I've read them all and think they're great. They address so much that Frank didn't. I can't get enough. I want more, more, more.
It's not an either/or situation for Dune lovers:not a Herbert vs. Brian thing. While I love "God Emperor" for showing the end product of Leto II's (actually Leto III, if you count the child killed in the Harkkonen raid) evolution, and I think that "Chapterhouse" was boring; each brings something valuable to the table for other Dune lovers.Respecting our right to have different views and still sharing a love of the Series is what makes Dune so powerful.
Tee wrote: "It's not an either/or situation for Dune lovers:not a Herbert vs. Brian thing. While I love "God Emperor" for showing the end product of Leto II's (actually Leto III, if you count the child killed ..."Well said, my friend. I quite agree.
Jackie wrote: "That took balls. I think I have a crush on you Please don't use "balls" and "crush" in the same sentence. It scares me.
(kidding)
Ouch, you're right! Technically, they're separate sentences but I get your meaning. LMAO
Colin wrote: "Tee wrote: "It's not an either/or situation for Dune lovers:not a Herbert vs. Brian thing. While I love "God Emperor" for showing the end product of Leto II's (actually Leto III, if you count the c..."Hi Colin,
With so much other-memory there is room for many realities. Thanks for your support!
James wrote: "the prequels are not worth the paper they are printed on. they practically take place in a different universe from the books of Frank Herbert, not to mention the complete lack of literary style or ..."I agree to an extent. But I also felt that the style of Dune was different to the style of the other 5 original books.
I agree that the first books practically took place in a different universe to the books of Frank Herbert, mainly because there was a few thousand years between them and the books dealing with the machines.
But I see them as part of the overall Dune Universe, and not as being Frank Herbert books, fleshing out the beginnings of the machine crusade, the origins of the Orange Catholic Bible, Serena Butler, the House Harkonnen/Atreides enmity, etc.
The same with the Prelude books. Those books fleshed out the whole era around the buildup to the Atreides move to Arakis.
I am looking forward to the proposed new books and am interested to see how he evolves the Sorceresses of Rossak into the Bene Gesserit, how the Spacing Guild evolve from Norma Cenva and How the Suk School came to be.
Bill wrote: I am looking forward to the proposed new books and am interested to see how he evolves the Sorceresses of Rossak into the Bene Gesserit, how the Spacing Guild evolve from Norma Cenva and How the Suk School came to be.You and me both, brother.
I actually start reading Dune from "Butlerian Jihad". Then I just kept on reading till the Battle of Corrin. I like the serial. Now I am really into the story and planning to read the original Dune books. One thing puzzled me. I believe Dune is a great story. But looks like there are not many movies about it. Kind of been forgotten by the sci-fi world.
David wrote: Kind of been forgotten by the sci-fi world.Not at all. The original Dune is the single most purchased scifi novel of all time.
There's a lot to Dune and a simple 2 hour movie won't cover it, not unless it leaves a lot out. It's just a difficult movie to do, not forgotten, not by a long shot.
Jeanine wrote: To get the whole feel of the story you would have to split it up into more than one movie. That's why I'd like to see a pay cable channel like HBO do a full series. 13 episodes could do Dune justice.
If HBO doesn't have the money then nobody does. Have you seen the trailer for their 'A Game of Thrones' series? Yeah, they got the money. Syfy Channel blows. 'Nuff Said on that, LOL
Completely agree that SyFy blows. HBO could do a good long serious series if they really wanted to. When Peter Jackson gets done with The Hobbit, perhaps we could prevail on him to do Dune?:-)
Hey, it is a fiction/fantasy, right?! LOL
--Wag--
Lou, that would be awesome if Jackson would do it.
Jackson, can't, its not fantasy, science fiction is dying, for most its so last century. Plus I don't think he has this connection with books as he does with Lord of Rings. I mean you get to be 17 only once.
I agree about him being a huge fan of LOTR but if that's the only way he can make great films, then he'd be out of a job. It doesn't necessarily have to be Jackson, just someone of his caliber who has an eye for details.
Scifi will never die. There's always some new tech, some new threat that'll keep it alive. If there's less scifi fans, it's not the fault of the genre but of those who lack imagination.
Yeah, looking forward to seeing more Dune movies and TV serials! Compares to Star Wars and Star Trek, it's so unfair to Dune.
Just to go on record:The new books are crap. In Paul of Dune, Kevin J. Anderson & the other guy with the right name reduced Frank Herbert's original novels to in-universe propaganda penned by Irulan. I find it hard to believe that Frank Herbert would have agreed to that, especially when it was a fairly transparent attempt by the "authors" to silence criticism based on the inconsistencies they have introduced with the originals over the last decade.
It was bad enough that the House books ended with Paul being born on Kaitain, but Paul of Dune & Winds have him leaving Caladan repeatedly. (In the latter he even runs off and joins a "Jongleur" Face Dancer circus troupe.)
"McDune" is not Dune. Anyone who thinks it is has obviously never really appreciated the originals for what they are: classics of American Science Fiction. Dune isn't "just a story." It's a masterpiece and a work of genius.
And yes, I spell the word out in full: I'm a fanatic.
SandChigger wrote: Anyone who thinks it is has obviously never really appreciated the originals for what they are ... Fanatic or not, you have no right to judge those of us who do like the newer books, to say we don't appreciate the originals. You don't know what we appreciate and cannot make such a ridiculous and insulting statement. You don't have to like them, that's your choice but you don't have to make a blanket judgement of those who do.
The newer series are entertaining. No, they are not the same. Taste and preference is subjective and all are valid.
All I know is, they keep writing them, I'll keep reading them. Any Dune is better than no Dune, for me.
SandChigger wrote: "The new books are crap..."We all are entitled to our opinions, and your post leaves no doubt as to what your opinion is.
But that works both ways; if you are entitled to your opinion (and you are), then we are also entitled to ours. That does not mean that our understanding of the originals is somehow less than yours.
And while I agree with your statement that Dune is "a masterpiece and a work of genius", that doesn't change the fact that, in the final analysis, it's still "just a story".
If you are entitled to opinions about books, then why not as well to opinions about the tastes and preferences of the people who like those books and find them "entertaining"?My opinion, Colin, is that if you accept these cheap pulp knockoffs (none of which has required more than a few months to create) as valid continuations or extensions of Frank Herbert's originals, then yes, there must be something lacking in your understanding or appreciation of the originals. Anderson plays too loosely with continuity for anyone to take "McDune" seriously.
"Any Dune is better than no Dune, for me."
And that, Jackie, speaks volumes. Me, I only accept melange. I don't need any of that fake "amal".
Ok, SandChigger, you're apparently convinced of your own superiority. I hope the original 6 books keep you company while I've got plenty of new Dune books to look forward too.You are the rudest person I've ever had the displeasure of 'conversing' with at goodreads, and that, SandChigger, speaks volumes.
And if it's opinions on people's preferences you want: it's my opinion that people who believe their preferences are superior are arseholes. How's that?
Dune is a universe. Not just a world or a set of stories. If one is a Dune lover, one loves the good, then not so good and the outright trash printed in it's name. Why? One should not discourage creativity. There are sure to jewels in with the dross, but those will be undiscovered if hard core "Purists" began to take the functions of Guilds that lock out all but the very best- which a relative point of view at best. Don't follow in Paul's steps by thinking to control the future of a vision to effect outcomes.
Dune is about possibilities and heritage. Brian has a right to continue the work of his father and follow a vision that differs - just as Leto III made the choice to walk where he father did not.
I'm not saying the "any dune is good dune". One must make that determination in accord with one's reading tastes. To do otherwise is to play into the hands of the Bene-Js and Honored Maters.
And this is just one opinion among the millions of Dune lovers....
No, its not "just a friggin' story". Dune is literature that is being given a bad fan fiction whitewash.I seriously don't see how people heap all this 5-star praise on these books. Entertaining I can see, but they are vapid, 1-dimensional, hollow, and farcical. It actually makes me angry at how badly written they are.
Paul joining the circus? Worm Duels? That's not drama its a slap in the face to a monument of sci-fi.
Would you enjoy a prequel to Lord of the Rings where Frodo becomes a Traveling fool in Aragorn's father's court and pals around with a good troll and his Ent buddy? Then to top it off they tell anyone who complains that it's blatantly not consistent with Tolkien's works that Lord of the Rings was written by Bilbo and he was getting senile when he wrote it and under the influence of the ring, and that's why its different. That's not filling in gaps, its exploiting a series for monetary gain.
Please, I would love to have someone who 5 stars these books reflexively to explain to me why they think the book deserves as many stars as some of our greatest literature. Personally I find them extremely offensive in their mediocrity.
I'd also like to point out that I don't fault anyone for enjoying the new books, but I really don't understand how they came to that conclusion, its like speaking in 2 different languages.I don't expect a book to be perfect, but I do expect someone writing in another authors universe to give at least some respect the original work, and I definitely lay down the gauntlet on that point. (I'll cede the point that they definitely respect its marketability.)
In the end it matters little, the new books are not Dune, and won't be considered canon. That's just historical fact.
Frank Herbert set the bar for all science fiction. As a former English major, the original six books are still my favorite works of literature of all time.I wanted so badly for the prequels and sequels to be as extraordinary as Frank Herbert's novels. If I were Brian Herbert, I would be embarrassed to publish the prequels and sequels.
As I like good trashy sic-fi and horror on TV, I can understand the appeal of Brian's work. For me, it simply falls far short of Frank Herbert's genius. I cannot read Brian's novels as I find them shallow and silly.
That said, I can certainly understand the appeal of more "Dune" books regardless of the poor writing and content. But, the Bene Gesserit started by a little person who morphs her body?! The Butlerian Jihad simplified into a battle againt a ring of evil robots?! I feel Brian is pissing on his father's grave.
However, if other fans find enjoyment and a sense of completion in these works, I'm quite happy for them!
Actually, I'm of the opinion that Brian is already embarrassed about what they've done and is weakly resisting Kevin. One of the reasons that the Interquels have been 'cancelled' while they move on to 'Sisterhood of Dune'.
(Wow, I've been called an "arsehole" by yet another McDune fan. Yawn.)
It must be a popular trend.
I have a friend who listens to Lady Gaga. Personally, I'd rather hear a continuously looped recording of nails on a blackboard. But my friend likes it.Doesn't make her a bad person. Doesn't make her an idiot. Doesn't even mean that she has no understanding of music. Just means she likes stuff that I don't. Believe it or not, we're still friends.
I've got a revolutionary idea: if you don't like a particular set of books, DON'T READ THEM!!!!
But don't try to pretend that just because you don't like a particular group of science fiction novels that it makes you somehow superior to those who do.
Ah, the if you don't like it, don't read it argument.Is there something you hold sacred Colin? Are you religious, or is there anything you consider worth fighting for?
Dune is that for me. It is the closest thing I've had to a secular "spiritual" feeling. It changed my life.
So when someone comes along and profanes something I consider sacred, I will not stand by and be silent. That is why I draw a line between Frank's books and Kevin's. Frank was trying to entertain, sure, but he also had something worth saying and worth reading beyond mindless entertainment.
Kevin wants the recognition and the checks, he cares nothing for the actual craft. His work is Crayola scribblings on recycled cardboard next to great artwork. And he demands we consider them equal and ridicules us for disagreeing. He chose this route, not us. He chose to label us 'talifans' rather than even listen to our initial complaints, even taunted one of us with 'don't worry we're not done with this'. That was a mistake. I could respect an author that would take however breif a time to respond even once with "I can see what you mean, but this is why I did it this way." If you want the origin of the "No, YOU'RE wrong" argument, look no further than Kevin J Anderson.
Now of course there will be a difference in tastes, some people prefer mindless wiz-bang-pow. Some people prefer story and substance, and some of us even want both from time to time. I don't mind a good mindless entertainment from time to time, and I love a good story that was lovingly crafted. But I want the one I paid for, and I especially don't want someone telling me I'm the one who was wrong when the product was clearly mislabeled as to what it actually is. McDune is such a creature.
Kevin can write stuff that "entertains", but I don't want that Philistine anywhere near my substantive story.
I don't consider myself 'superior' to you. The books entertained you and that's that, I cannot change that nor do I seek to change that. I would hope that in return you can see that I find them offensively bad, written by a pretentious leech who cares only for how many paper bricks he can move.
I'd love for you to mention something from the books you particularly liked, something that has stuck with you.
"But don't try to pretend that just because you don't like a particular group of science fiction novels that it makes you somehow superior to those who do."Who's pretending?
You're going to get your wish, in part:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/4...
Herbert and Anderson plan to publish a trilogy about "the formation of ..."
Thanks, I have this on my Dune radar. Hoping it answers some those many culture questions about the Sisterhood and the Honored Maters.