City of Bones
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Can't stop thinking of plagarism
message 351:
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Mizuki
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rated it 2 stars
Feb 16, 2014 10:41PM
Now things make perfect sense thanks Andre.
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I thought all the silent brothers were killed?
Andre wrote: "When checking as to when book 6 will come out I saw some quotes from the book:a) Alec will try to get back with Magnus"
Repetition. Why am I not surprised?
Andre wrote: "b) Brother Zachariah/Jem is suddenly stated as hot by Isabelle, so at least Jem will appear. And Tessa probably too. Not that this explains why she was absent so far from TMI, except for that one second cameo in City of Glass. "
LOL.... Silent brothers are always scary.
But I suppose Jem has lots of privileges as a character. Long sick shadowhunter to a very special silent brother to a free-of-illness shadowhunter. If he can be mortal then immortal then mortal again, surely he can be HOT!
I thought the idea is hilarious enough but Ms Clare hasn't failed to amaze me still.
Andre wrote: "a) He has to get back with him because Clare has no idea about relationships."And because the idea of them stay separated will upset Magnus-Alec fans and might boycott the book.
Synesthesia wrote: "I thought all the silent brothers were killed?"You really think this kind of unimportant detail can stop Clare from adding Jem into TMI?
Nurlely wrote: "Not exactly sure about that. The possibility of having Jem-Tessa in the 6th book is also annoying.You said it all, Nurlely. Like Andre had already mentioned, why on earth Tessa has been nowhere in sight through the first five TMI books?
I wonder if it also shadows Emma Carstair, to tease the fans into the prospect of the next sequel.
Famous Ms Clare is milking her cow diligently? "
The thought of Emma Carstair being inserted into the sixth book just to tease the fans into reading the next series about Shadowhunters really gives me a headache.
And is something that is very likely if you ask me.The last TBC book will come out tomorrow and I am dreading that prospect.
Either way City of Heavenly Fire already has a 4.68 rating, biiigggg surprise (rolleyes) and these are the quotes from the book so far:
“Alec looked down at the shattered pieces in disbelief. “You BROKE my PHONE.”
Jace shrugged. “Guys don’t let other guys keep calling other guys. Okay, that came out wrong. Friends don’t let friends keep calling their exes and hanging up. Seriously. You have to stop.”
Alec looked furious. “So you broke my brand new phone? Thanks a lot.”
Jace smiled serenely and lay back on the grass. “You’re welcome.”
“Okayyyyy,” Isabelle said in a low voice, “When did Brother Zachariah get hot?”
“We shouldn’t,” protested Isabelle. “The Clave has a plan.”
“The Clave has the collective intelligence of a pineapple,” said Jace.
Alec blinked up at them. “Jace is right.”
Isabelle turned on her brother. “What do you know? You weren’t even paying attention.”
“I was,” Alec said, injured. “I said Jace was right.”
“Yeah, but there’s like a 90% chance of me being right most of the time, so that’s not proof you were listening,” said Jace. “That’s just a good guess.”
Magnus rolled onto his back and put his feet up on the arm of the sofa. “What do you care if Alec’s miserable?”
“What do I care?” Jace said, so loudly that Chairman Meow rolled off the couch and landed on the floor. “Of course I care about Alec; he’s my best friend, my parabatai. And he’s unhappy. And so are you, by the look of things. Takeout containers everywhere, you haven’t done anything to fix up the place, your cat looks dead —“
“He’s not dead.”
Clary,” Jocelyn said. “I want you to meet Tessa Gray.”
“No killing,” Jordan said. “We’re trying to make you feel peaceful, so you don’t go up in flames. Blood, killing, war, those are all non-peaceful things. Isn’t there anything else you like? Rainforests? Chirping birds?”
“Weapons,” said Jace. “I like weapons.”
“I’m starting to think we have a problematic issue of personal philosophy here.”
Jace leaned forward, his palms flat on the ground. “I’m a warrior,” he said. “I was brought up as a warrior. I didn’t have toys, I had weapons. I slept with a wooden sword until I was five. My first books were medieval demonologies with illuminated pages. The first songs I learned were chants to banish demons. I know what brings me peace, and it isn’t sandy beaches or chirping birds in rainforests. I want a weapon in my hand and a strategy to win.”
Jordan looked at him levelly. “So you’re saying that what brings you peace … is war.”
“Now you get it.”
“Isabelle tugged her tank top back down and glared at her brother. “You don’t knock now?”
“It’s my bedroom!” Alec spluttered.”
“I think,” Jace said, “that you don’t want to tell your secrets, so you decided to break up with Alec because..”
“Your boyfriend's dead. Thought you should know.”
“He’s not feeling well,” Clary said, catching at Simon’s wrist. “We’re going.”
“No,” Simon said. “No, I — I need to talk to him. To the Inquisitor."
Robert reached into his jacket and drew out a crucifix. Clary stared in shock as he held it up between himself and Simon. “I speak to the Night’s Children Council representative, or to the head of the New York clan,” he said. “Not to any vampire who comes to knock at my door —“
Simon reached out and plucked the cross out of Robert’s hand. “Wrong religion,” he said.”
“Simon,” said a voice at his shoulder, and he turned to see Izzy, her face a pale smudge between dark hair and dark cloak, looking at him, her expression half-angry, half-sad. “I guess this is the part where we say goodbye?”
At first I wanted to quote them all but its just too many and they speak a pretty clear language if you ask me:
https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes...
Morons over morons and everyone thinks Jace is great.
Veronica wrote: "Is it really plagiarism if you're using your own stuff?..."No, unless the material has been bought by a publishing company and owns the copyright.
Andre wrote: "At first I wanted to quote them all but its just too many and they speak a pretty clear language if you ask me:https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes...
Morons over morons and everyone thinks Jace is great. "
Oh... my poor Jace. I need to protect him from you... LOL
Excuse my behaviour when Jace is involved.
I read the link.
As I have predicted, although with the wrong character, Jules instead of Emma, Ms Clare is so diligently adding her next sequel into CoHF. Darn!
And Sebastian might live by the end of the day to satisfy Seb's fans and to prevent them from boycotting the book. Ms Clare made the whipping so important to make Seb look less guilty for what he has been doing. He was tortured! That was not totally his fault was screaming at me. LOL... and what about Jace and his tortures? He is a big jerk and arrogant but with being an evil with no remorse whatsoever?
I can't say that I didn't see that coming. Consistency is not what Ms Clare is good at.
Tessa and Jem will be in the story. Yuck!
Oh my gosh, I saw which quote you referred to... it really sounds as though she wants to redeem him now. YuckAnd why does she, whoever she is, even refer to him as Sebastian?
“She turned to look at Sebastian, lying on the bed. He was shirtless, and even in the dim light the old whip weals across his back were visible. She had always been fascinated by Shadowhunters but had never thought she would find one whose personality she could stand for more than five minutes, until Sebastian.” ― Cassandra Clare, City of Heavenly Fire
tags: clary, sebastian, siblings
Did Clary find Sebastian as a shadowhunter whose personality she could stand for more than five minutes? Darn funny.
What about Jace?
Maybe another possession or anything, or maybe some other person entirely. I will just be glad when its over.
I don't think she plagiarized Harry Potter. Like many have already said, many story lines are repeated over and over again. Plus, this series doesn't actually resemble the series of Harry Potter. They have so many differences. Clare creates her own mythical world in these books as well as characters that each have their own three dimensional personalities. Sure people may find some similarities, however, if you look hard enough, you could find cross-overs between any two books. I personally enjoyed reading this series and her other series, The Infernal Devices.
Amrita wrote: "Sy wrote: "Cassandra Clare's characters are so similar. Meaning Jace and Will are both agonized, brooding, rude teenagers. Clary and Tessa cannot decide between Simon/Jem the kind, steady guy and J..."I agree. I think she was just scared of losing her best friend (or basically only friend), so she did whatever it would take to keep him as her's, but she was just too confused to decipher her own feelings.
If you are talking about Clary/Tessa: what confusion of feelings?As for your "repeated story lines" excuse: That is not what people talk about when speaking of her plagiarising/ripping-off Harry Potter, they talk about the basilion similar elements.
And since you are the trillion who said so, maybe you can enlighten us, what are the many differences you are referring to?
I was talking about Clary, and how she really didn't seem that romantically engaged with Simon. Like, I kind of got the vibe that she was internally confused about how she felt about him, whether she loved him in a romantic way or just as a friend. How do you think she felt about Simon?And I apologize for not fully understanding the reason for the debate, but I did look it up and read it more closely. Is this about how the characters closely resemble those in the Draco Trilogy? I understand that the characters do sound very similar, however, I don't think it should be considered plagiarism. Authors tend to find their inspiration anywhere. Also, Clare perceived the characters and defined them in her own way and resembled them based on her interpretation. Though Jace and Draco sound very similar, they are still different. Jace seems like he's more broken, while Draco seems more scared.
As for the differences, some may include the more superficial ones, like the world itself. The monsters, villains, and heroes are all different. Plus, Valentine actually has a nose. So does Sebastian. And just when you think the main villain is defeated, along comes another one. Also, the hierarchy established in Harry Potter like the mudbloods, halfbloods, and purebloods doesn't exist in the universe Clare created. etc, etc.
I mean she keeps the same fanbase and I think that that is really smart. Even if her original characters came from (are similar too) her fanfic character. Either way they are hers
I personally do not consider her smart but rather fans who do not notice what is wrong with her stories as incredibly gullible. Not only does she repeat herself, the storytelling is incredibly clumsy, the similes horrible, she has no idea about consistent characterization or basic strategic thinking. She forgets powers, sentences, backgrounds and events. And not simply from one book to the other but often within the same book.Diana wrote: "How do you think she felt about Simon?
"
He is basically her little underling. Her concern for his feelings are nearly non-existent, she only defends him when she feels like it, she doesn't listen to his advice and basically lead him on in CoA and bullied him into submission in CoLS. In short: I have no idea why he is her friend. Plus his feelings were so obvious that you need to be retarted not to notice them.
Diana wrote: "And I apologize for not fully understanding the reason for the debate, but I did look it up and read it more closely. Is this about how the characters closely resemble those in the Draco Trilogy? I understand that the characters do sound very similar, however, I don't think it should be considered plagiarism. Authors tend to find their inspiration anywhere."
The plagiarism accusation are based on her proven plagiarism in her Draco fanfic and the fact that she not only took the same characters and relabelled them but also that she copied entire passages from the Draco fanfic and used that for City of Bones, thereby getting money out of her plagiarism.
And most critics do not consider her being inspired by anything, but that she simply ripps-off what she can find, which explains why there is no rhyme nor reason to her elements, like Jace playing piano, the vampire powers, the fairies kidnapping babies, the werewolves or the way characters look.
Plus "Mortal Instruments" is a title of a Ron/Ginny fanfic with incestuous elements. Kind of like her book Clockwork Prince.
Diana wrote: "Jace seems like he's more broken, while Draco seems more scared. "
What is that supposed to mean?
Diana wrote: "As for the differences, some may include the more superficial ones, like the world itself. The monsters, villains, and heroes are all different."
So the Clareverse does not have a ruling body that considers itself superior to others? So it does not have a guy everyone feers, believed to be dead, who creates panick, tried to overthrow the government, has a band of devoted followers who have a dark mark on them and is all about purity?
The Clareverse does not have fairies of all sizes and forms, vampires, werewolves, dragons, unicorns and djinn and mermaids? Also flying motorcycles, a special sowrd, mirror and cup, wand-like objects for doing magic, looking down upon non-human beings, part-humans and non-magical humans. So it doesn't have a magical place shielded from non-magical humans, although being shielded from demons would make more sense?
Diana wrote: "Plus, Valentine actually has a nose."
Seriously? That is your big difference? How about the basillion similarities? Like his status as the most evil villain, his purity mania, his alleged good looks (remember "Tom Riddle?"), his gang of devoted followers with the black mark, his access to special magics, his willingness to use what he despises to get what he wants?
Diana wrote: "So does Sebastian."
What?
Diana wrote: "And just when you think the main villain is defeated, along comes another one."
Just when you think? Sebastian was dead at the end of CoG, he was revived several months later. There would have been new antagonists had Rowling wanted to go on with HP. What sort of argument is that?
Diana wrote: " Also, the hierarchy established in Harry Potter like the mudbloods, halfbloods, and purebloods doesn't exist in the universe Clare created. etc, etc. "
Downworlders use "half-breed" as a derogatory term for warlocks, mundanes are looked down upon, except for those having the sight, they are convenient servents and property, and Downworlders are tools. You were saying?
Andre wrote: "What is that supposed to mean?"It means exactly what I wrote. Jace is BROKEN as in his mental and emotional state is in disarray. While Draco does and acts the way he does in fear.
Andre wrote: "So the Clareverse does not have a ruling body that considers itself superior to others? So it does not have a guy everyone feers, believed to be dead, who creates panick, tried to overthrow the government, has a band of devoted followers who have a dark mark on them and is all about purity?
The Clareverse does not have fairies of all sizes and forms, vampires, werewolves, dragons, unicorns and djinn and mermaids? Also flying motorcycles, a special sowrd, mirror and cup, wand-like objects for doing magic, looking down upon non-human beings, part-humans and non-magical humans. So it doesn't have a magical place shielded from non-magical humans, although being shielded from demons would make more sense?"
What mythical book doesn't contain those types of monsters? It's just that later on in the series, Clare invites new ones, like that weird slime thing they battled before Mia stepped in during the war that erupted after Sebastian took down the wards, and the Shadowhunters paired up with the demons to fight Valentine rather than admit defeat. And what book doesn't include a guy who everyone fears and tries to overthrow the set "system" because he/she thinks it's wrong, however, his/her tactics aren't exactly the best approach to solving a corrupt system.
Andre wrote: "Seriously? That is your big difference? How about the basillion similarities? Like his status as the most evil villain, his purity mania, his alleged good looks (remember "Tom Riddle?"), his gang of devoted followers with the black mark, his access to special magics, his willingness to use what he despises to get what he wants?"
Umm no. But why doesn't he have a nose??? Did Valentine get revived and deformed as well as separate his life into many different horcruxes? As for the similarities between Valentine and Tom Riddle, I agree, they do sound pretty darn similar. But so do many other villains. I'm not exactly sure if you've ever read any, but many romance novels tend to depict the "villain" as a charismatic guy that everyone loves but turns into some horrific, too-faced douchebag towards the end.
Andre wrote: "Just when you think? Sebastian was dead at the end of CoG, he was revived several months later. There would have been new antagonists had Rowling wanted to go on with HP. What sort of argument is that?"
But she didn't.
Andre wrote: "Downworlders use "half-breed" as a derogatory term for warlocks, mundanes are looked down upon, except for those having the sight, they are convenient servents and property, and Downworlders are tools. You were saying?"
Downworlders, shadow hunters, and mundanes with the sight are all different. Mudbloods, halfbloods, and purebloods are all wizards and witches.
Taylor wrote: "I have read City of Bones and parts of the Harry Potter series and I don't see how they could be related. I mean really, everyone takes bits and pieces from movies, stories, photos, and other thing..."agree!
@DianaI think you should read the books again since there were several gross errors in your answer. But one thing at a time.
When it comes to emotional states being broken and being scarred are usually used synonymously. And in what way is Draco's emotional state not in disarray when he acts out of fear? And in what way is Jace in disarray? The guy has at best daddy issues and is at worst a giant dick who loads his crap on others and is totally arrogant.
What mythical book doesn't contain the monsters I noticed? Well Journey to the West has at most dragons and these are Lung and not western dragons. Wolfgang Hohlbein's books generally lack them. The books of Jenny Mai-Nuyen miss vampires, dragons and werewolves, at most they have elves. I am planning to read a Scandinavian one who has none of those. So, you were saying?
And here we go to your mistakes:
It was "Maia" not "Mia" and that slime thing was a giant slug called Behemoth, which (as usual for Clare) has nothing to do with its mythological counterpart and so would never fit in a fictional world that allegedly so closely mirrors our own. Also it wasn't a war, it was simply a surprise attack by the demons. And here the next thing: the Shadowhunters paired up with the Downworlders to fight Valentine's summoned demon forces, they did not pair with demons to defeat Valentine.
And what book has not the kind of bad guy you described? Again, look at my examples from above. Then there is pretty much every book from Anne Rice, Pillars of the Earth, The Never Ending story, plenty of Stories by the Brothers Grimm and Hans-Christian Anderson, several American fairy tales. Peter Pan, Frankstein, Dracula, The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide, several Arthur Conan Doyle and H.G. Wells novels, Watership Down, the Dark Elf trilogy etc. Etc. Etc. Shall I go on?
What is your obsession with the nose? Do you honestly think Clare is so dumb to have an exact copy of Voldemort? She basically mixed him with her version of Lucius Malfoy, since he Jace background was the one she gave Draco in her fanfic before Rowling made clear that Lucius is not an abusive father. Not that Clare did a good job in Jace's case since there doesn't seem to have been much abuse, if any.
And if romance novels all have such villains than it is only further proof for this unoriginality since romance novels tend to copy each other constantly.
And Shadowhunters and mundane are both human so not exactly different. Also there have differences on where you come from within the Shadowhunter world. Remember the Lightwoods?
Jumping into the discussion...So, just to make sure I understand, the MI series is basically the already-proven-to-be-plagiarised Draco Trilogy? And the reason why people are upset it because Clare plagiarised in her fanfiction and now is making money off of it?
That's disappointing.
Elise wrote: "Jumping into the discussion...So, just to make sure I understand, the MI series is basically the already-proven-to-be-plagiarised Draco Trilogy? And the reason why people are upset it because Cla..."
1) Why is it dissapointing in your eyes?
2) Her ripping off so many other titles, not being able to handle it and keep things consistent and her writing style plus that she gets money for this "upsets" people.
I can say it with 100 % confidence: her books are the worst I have ever read. And I regret giving my word to read them until City of Heavenly Fire.
AlbertaJenn wrote: "Pffft! In her fanfiction, she purposely quoted various books, TV shows, and moives. It was intentional, and her audience (the early fan fictioners) were totally aware of that. That does not make it..."Exactly!
AlbertaJenn wrote: "Pffft! In her fanfiction, she purposely quoted various books, TV shows, and moives. It was intentional, and her audience (the early fan fictioners) were totally aware of that. T..."Wrong! She only admitted it after she was caught.
One cannot copyright an idea.
Yeah you can.
No you can't. If you could there would be far less entertainment in the world than there is. Harry Potter for example (since everyone else is using it). If I want to write a book about a boy wizard with two outcast friends I am perfectly within my rights. Will it be well received? Probably not. But I could. Just a fact.www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protec...
"Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed...Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work."
Those two were not even outcasts. And who just wants to copy other people's ideas all the time? I'm trying to create my own ideas here!
...not at all my point.
Here's a tip about the publishing world if the Immortal Instruments was a plagiarised story it would of got picked up asap, there is a computer system that checks each story published for key similarities that could be considered for plagiarism, it's the same software schools use to make sure you're not cheating on school essays or college applications.Each writer is an individual and has their own unique style of writing, now taking inspiration from music, art, books, nature wherever you get it from is not plagiarism if they're not identical, the term for taking something and using it as your muse is called "Appropriation" artists, writers, the whole world has been doing it forever and there is a line between the two which is why someone often goes out and uses the word plagiarism rather then appropriation.
Think about Plagiarism and Appropriation being black and white and then there is this grey line with the two over lapping, it's this grey line most things fit into because they used something as a muse or concept but it's not plagiarism because they're not identical.
In a painting where appropriation has been used if you compare it to the thing that was what it was based on you'd see differences because it's two different artists with two different visions. Now if you have say an original Rembrandt painting and one that's identical but is a counterfeit then that's plagiarism. In writing plagiarism can be having identical characters, setting, word for word copying, but if you read two things and they're different though you think they're similar then they've not been branded as plagiarism.
My own opinion is the Immortal Instruments is appropriated to a lot of books I've read or TV shows and movies, Harry Potter, Vampire Diaries and even Twilight but it's not copied or plagiarised.
Just because a writer writes fanfiction before they're famous doesn't mean squat, the author of 50 shades Grey wrote her novels and they were fanfiction to begin with before they became an international best seller, fanfiction is just a new genre of writing and pleanty of writers do it, now if you're going to say fanfiction is plagiarised I'm not going to lie it can be considered yes. But if you've invented new characters and it completely deflects from the original concept then it can be considered as appropriation, also if corporate giants really cared about fanfictions they'd make them illegal to write and would sue every unknown writer for writing one. And if that were the case online publishing sites like WATTPAD or FanFiction and Figment wouldn't be able to have unknown writers writing fanfictions for free online which the companies who allow people to use the sites for free make big money from advertising on them. The writing world is cut throat and big money, so companies that publish famous authors don't have the time to muck around with someone who plagiarises, money is money...
Laurana wrote: "No you can't. If you could there would be far less entertainment in the world than there is. Harry Potter for example (since everyone else is using it). If I want to write a book about a boy wizard..."Then you would be called ripping off. Unless you truly only use an archetype, but Clare did way more than that. She downright ripped off from all sorts of popular titles and tropes. All they way never truly knowing what she is talking about as it seems.
I have read both series, Harry Potter and the Mortal Instruments. I see no plagiarism. The similarity I see is that both authors created believable worlds and characters. Characters are well drawn. Both authors tell a good story.
Plagiarism? From her own work? I don't think THAT is illegal. ahahaha..
“A real writer learns from earlier writers the way a boy learns from an apple orchard -- by stealing what he has a taste for, and can carry off”
― Archibald MacLeish
“Good writers borrow. The best writers steal.”
― Aaron Sorkin
Remember Stephen King's First Rule of Writers and Agents, learned by bitter personal experience: You don't need one until you're making enough for someone to steal ... and if you're making that much, you'll be able to take your pick of good agents.”
― Stephen King
As I'm cutting and pasting these quotes, I'm wondering... Is it still considered plagiarism if I cite my sources?
Guess I'm OK with some stealing on this front. I forget which philosopher remarked that we are all standing on the shoulders of giants.
What I really enjoy are books where a GREAT writer has taken the work of a mediocre writer and created something phenomenal... Did you know that most of Shakespeare's plays had their plot-lines from other playwrights?
Well since you three apparently know so much, please enlighten us.Why is there no hint of plagiarism or ripping off?
What about her world and characters is believable?
What about her story is good?
Andre wrote: "Well since you three apparently know so much, please enlighten us.Not sure that I'm one of the three that you're referring to but there are bigger problems with this series of books than plagiarism.
They're not particularly good storytelling. The number 1 job of the writer should be to inform, and/or entertain the reader, ideally both. After reading a GREAT book, the readers should be entertained, and enlightened and perhaps a bit wiser and more world aware.
In my opinion, the best authors create characters that the reader identifies with and sympathizes with and wants to spend some more time with.
As I've indicated in my reviews of the first two books in this series https://www.goodreads.com/review/show... and https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Clare hasn't done the best job of meeting those goals.
even after the second book, the characters lack depth and any strong appeal. To use a term that you'd find in the books themselves, the characters are kinda "Mundane."
The prologue started out rather badly in my eyes when I encountered the following... The window glass was perfectly translucent, providing such a complete illusion that there was nothing between the viewer and the view that it had been know to induce vertigo even in those unafraid of heights. The author clearly intended us to imagine something transparent. The wordsmith in me was offended at such an egregious error in word choice.
Something can be bad writing without being plagiarism.
Stephen wrote: "“A real writer learns from earlier writers the way a boy learns from an apple orchard -- by stealing what he has a taste for, and can carry off”
― Archibald MacLeish
“Good writers borrow. The be..."
Shakespeare recycled old plots because that's what was expected from playwrights at the time. Much like the fact that Shakespeare was known to spell his name about 5 or more different ways. It was just the time era he lived in.
But we don't read/watch good old Shakes for the plot threads, we do so because of his language skill.
The way he tells the plots, the way he shows his characters, the way he deftly handles appealing to the lowest common denominator whilst still having something intelligent to say.
So I do actually agree with you. Authors steal all the time, but to get away with it, they have to tell the story from a different angle, with different language, paint another interpretation for the audience, so to speak.
I mean all stories are based off the "original 7" right? Nothing is original anymore right? It's all about how you package it?
That being said, Clare has been accused of actual plagiarism during her FanFic days and apparently was actually guilty of said transgression. So I guess she can never truly escape the ghosts of her past. And agree with your assessment of her writing skills.
Somerandom wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That being said, Clare has been accused of actual plagiarism during her FanFic days and apparently was actually guilty of said transgression. So I guess she can never truly escape the ghosts of her past. And agree with your assessment of her writing skills. "Things would have been better if Clare owned up to her past mistakes by apologizing to the authors she had stolen from, and to the people who were cyber-bullied for calling her out on her plagiarism. But I see no evident that she had ever done this, that's a large part of the reason why she's still 'haunted' by her past.
It's NOT plagiarism if you are the original author, just lazy writing. Lots of people recycle characters, i.e. every harlequin romance writer ever, it's when plots and worlds are repeated that books become boring. That's where these books are interesting is the world and the plot, the writing itself is fair to middling.
That still doesn't even remotely answer the question as to why her stories and elements are allegedly not rip-offs or in what why they are good or her characters believable.
Somerandom wrote: "Shakespeare recycled old plots because that's what was expected from playwrights at the time. ..."I think we agree on that. I was (apparently ineptly) citing the bard as a writer who took mediocre material and made it phenomenal.
As to the "Good Writing" vs "Bad Writing" and "good storytelling vs "bad storytelling"... F. Scott Fitzgerald has some amazing prose in The Great Gatsby but I really disliked the characters enough that it will never be my favorite book. I'm more likely to re-read Twilight despite Stephenie Meyer wretched prose. At least the story was fun.
Stephen wrote: "Somerandom wrote: "Shakespeare recycled old plots because that's what was expected from playwrights at the time. ..."I think we agree on that. I was (apparently ineptly) citing the bard as a writ..."
Ahh, but what is enjoyable is not always technically sound. =)
I know a few film students who adore a few horribly made movies, despite them acknowledging how they "broke all the wrong rules." But at the same time, they usually have at least one "masterpiece" that they just can't get into, for whatever reason.
For me personally, I don't enjoy Dickens. Despite deeply respecting his talent.
But Richelle Mead's Vampire Academy series? Reread after reread. It's like my Twilight. I mean it's certainly clunky, rather cheesy, very cliche and the prose isn't stellar by any means. But dammit if it's not just a fun roller coaster of........ just fun-ness lol =D
Mizuki wrote: "Somerandom wrote: "Stephen wrote: "That being said, Clare has been accused of actual plagiarism during her FanFic days and apparently was actually guilty of said transgression. So I guess she can n..."Oh don't get me wrong. I'm not defending her by any means. Merely making an observation.
Stephen wrote: "“Guess I'm OK with some stealing on this front. I forget which philosopher remarked that we are all standing on the shoulders of giants.
"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
- Isaac Newton
"We are like dwarfs standing [or sitting] upon the shoulders of giants, and so able to see more and see farther than the ancients."
- Bernard of Chartres
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/...
City of Bones is a hackneyed story beset by weak crafting skills overridden with too many tropes too thinly disguised. It could have been a fun read but instead was an eye-rolling "Well, duh, that was going to happen" affair. The published book was not a piece of plagarism. I have no knowledge of her fanfic but since the thread's title doesn't differentiate between the published novel and her fanfiction, it appears that the OP is hinting at the writer plagarizing in her published works. For all the faults City of Bones suffers, it doesn't suffer from plagarism.
Veronica wrote: "Is it really plagiarism if you're using your own stuff?..."It is if your stuff is based off another person's stuff. Or essentially your own version of someone elses stuff. Jace is just her version of Draco but he is still based on Draco who is not hers so its still plagiarism.
Ali wrote: "I think it's ridiculous that everyone is making such a big deal about minor similarities between Cassandra Clare's works and Harry Potter. The only reason people are being so nit-picky about her bo..."Well then maybe Cassandra should not have been so open after she published her book about her fanfiction. It's always going to look suspicious if a famous author writes fanfiction based on another very famous person's series. JK Rowling did not leave herself open to that criticism because she doesn't write fanfiction, or if she does she doesn't broadcast it.
Kirby wrote: "Sophie wrote: "It is NOT plagiarism. The dictionary definition of plagiarism is:-an act or instance of using or closely imitating the language and thoughts of another author without authorization..."
Um guys have you actually read this list? It's huge!!! She has plagiarized form so many sources so many times its crazy!
Somerandom wrote: "Oh don't get me wrong. I'm not defending her by any means. Merely making an observation. "Don't worry, I was just offering up my opinion that Clare's problem with plagiarism and how people would not let her past go, is more or less her own making. The keywords here are: own up to your past mistakes.
Hannah wrote: " JK Rowling did not leave herself open to that criticism because she doesn't write fanfiction, or if she does she doesn't broadcast it. "Well, when she decided to publish her novels under the name of Cassandra Clare, which is nearly identical to her fanfic writer name Cassandra Claire, she had more or less made the move of 'broadcasting' her fanfic past.
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