Fantasy Aficionados discussion
Reading Recommendations
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Book Eligibility: FA's top 100 books of all time
Colleen of the Crawling Chaos wrote: "Oh, just the comment about members being too mature and sane to vote to tweeny YA romances. I happen to quite like a few tweeny YA romances. Probably wouldn't nominate any of them as all-time ..."
Same here! It's not worth arguing about, IMO.
I think that people will vote for the books that they want, so a lot of the in between stuff probably won't make it on the list if there isn't a strong following one way or another. As probably the biggest (or only, not sure) Twilight fan on this group, I am pretty sure that it won't make it, because most Twi-fans consider it romance with fantasy elements as opposed to pure fantasy. I don't love Twilight for the fantasy anyway, so it's a moot point.
I think that I Am Not A Serial Killer and the rest of the series firmly qualify as fantasy. I can't say my reason, as it's a huge spoiler, but I think fantasy is a safe bet!
I think MG = Middle grade, MrsJ.
*Sigh*If only... if only I had read Twilight
*deep sigh*
I don't have any bias against YA--I happen to love many books in the teen target age. I was just wondering where we stood--I haven't thrown my top 10 in yet. Do I include The Blue Sword ? Wrinkle in Time? When I saw Percy Jackson, I just was a little surprised, since they were written even younger than Harry Potter.
Dropping back to another question and "chiming in". I agree that I Am Not A Serial Killer has to be recognized as fantasy. it's sort of a "surprise fantasy" as the fantasy element sort of arrives late, though it works oddly well.
Ok - here's my two cents.I think if we're going to allow author self-nominated titles on the premise that majority rules so it won't get votes if no one else has read it or liked it - then the same thing should hold for MG and YA books.
As long as it's fantasy it should be allowed to be nominated, and then let the votes decide.
(I say this knowing full well there's a lot of anti-YA sentiment around these parts and that most of the books I nominated will probably not make it on the list in the end, or will get voted low. Hell, I'm pretty sure I could predict the top 20 already, but that's neither here nor there.)
Another argument in favor of non-discrimination when it comes to YA or MG books is that, especially in the case of "YA", it is a pretty recent terminology and plenty of books that are classics in fantasy were not necessarily written for a "YA" audience. As for the author self-nominating, personally, I'm not in favor of that. From his blog posts, I'd venture to guess that if Patrick Rothfuss showed up to nominate a book or 10, that he's enough of a reader to come up with 10 that he didn't write. If an author's books are good enough, someone will nominate one - it just shouldn't be them.
ETA: On the subject MrsJ raised about A Wrinkle in Time, I'd have to say science fiction for that one. It's been a long time since I read it, but time travel and physics-speak about dimensions and tesseracts put it firmly in scifi for me.
Dawn wrote: "I'm reading the first book of the Thrawn trilogy right now and it's totally fantasy..."I love the Thrawn Trilogy—one of the best of SW. But it's totally SF ;-)
FWIW, I consider A Wrinkle in Time SF and for 10 y/o's
"It" (wasn't that what it was called? I don't have a copy handy) seems kind of fantastical, though.Boy, "It" was a scary big bad to my young self.
Science fantasy!
You know, this is actually a great, eye-opening exercise...at least, for me. I never really thought deeply before about what differentiates the various genres, i.e. fantasy, science fiction, paranormal, urban fantasy, etc. If it sounded magical, I just automatically assumed it was fantasy! But, now I can see there are different levels and elements that make up the genres and sub-genres. Awesome idea to do this list thing! :D
Colleen of the Crawling Chaos wrote: "Science fantasy!"Yea, that's it! I thought about putting the Wrinkle in Time series on my list, but I wasn't sure if it'd count, lol.
Kernos wrote: "I love the Thrawn Trilogy—one of the best of SW. But it's totally SF ;-)"
*ahem* The Thrawn Trilogy is The Best, not one of.
Also, Fantasy. :P
*ahem* The Thrawn Trilogy is The Best, not one of.
Also, Fantasy. :P
Actually I organize all Star Wars books as Star Wars Books and all Star Trek books as Star Trek Books. All other books from TV series, like Supernatural or Star Gate go under TV Series Books. These are all fascinating parallel universi I love to visit.
I nominated The Snow Queen - it has some Science Fiction elements, but it "feels" more like fantasy. Any opinions?
Siberia wrote: "I nominated The Snow Queen - it has some Science Fiction elements, but it "feels" more like fantasy. Any opinions?"I really don't know. It won Locus Award for Best Science Fiction Novel (1981) so that would push it closer to Sci-Fi.
Anyone else?
Reviews and the Locus make it sound Sci-Fi... I can see where it may seem like fantasy from the jacket. I haven't read it, but I'd vote Sci-Fi.
Almost as many readers shelved it under fantasy as science fiction. I haven't read it yet but does it have space travel? That seems to be the deciding vote on these questionable books so far. If yes science fiction. No maybe fantasy.
I just saw that someone nominated The Left Hand of Darkness but I just finished reading it. It was a great book but it seems SciFi in my opinion. The Intro in the book even listed itself as SciFi.
Sara wrote: "I just saw that someone nominated The Left Hand of Darkness but I just finished reading it. It was a great book but it seems SciFi in my opinion. The Intro in the book even listed it..."I'd vote sci-fi. Anyone else?
Re: Pern - I just read the opening to the first book of Pern. I think this puts the Pern series into Sci-Fi. All emphasis is mine:"To forestall the incursions of the dreadful Threads, the Pernese, with the ingenuity of their forgotten Terran forebears, developed a highly specialized variety of a life-form indigenous to their adopted planet. Such humans as had a high empathy rating and some innate telepathic ability were trained to use and preserve this unusual animal whose ability to teleport was of great value in the fierce struggle to keep Pern bare of Threads.
The winged, tailed, and fiery-breathed dragons (named for the Earth legend they resembled), their dragonmen, a breed apart, and the menace they battled, created a whole new group of legends and myths.
Once relieved of imminent danger, Pern settled into a more comfortable way of life. The descendants of heroes fell into disfavor, as the legends fell into disrepute."
I have not read the series so I will bow to the knowledge of those who have.
Any comments?
These are other books that are in question:The Left Hand of Darkness – le guin
A Wrinkle in Time
The Snow Queen
Should we categorize them as sci-fi?
Right now I'm considering A Wrinkle in Time as sci-fi and I'll remove it from my nominations - unless we all agree differently.
The Left Hand of Darkness is excellent, but definitely falls under sci-fi, imho. I'd say Pern falls under sci-fi, too.
Snow Queen is SciFi.
I haven't read it(more than a few pages) but we did it as SciFi book of the month in another group.
I haven't read it(more than a few pages) but we did it as SciFi book of the month in another group.
Comment on Pern: I would be interested to know what edition the preface is from. I don't mind it being left out, but I do think the first few books didn't reference that at all, and she later wrote the space travel/genetic manipulation into the timeline. Just a book discussion point; while I love the first couple books, I will bow to majority.Left Hand is Sci-fi--I thought about including it, but almost everything of hers I love is sci-fi.
Carol wrote: "Comment on Pern: I would be interested to know what edition the preface is from. I don't mind it being left out, but I do think the first few books didn't reference that at all, and she later wrote..."I went to Amazon and "looked in" the first book, Dragonflight. http://www.amazon.com/Dragonflight-Dr...
Here are some screenshots from the "look inside" part. Sorry I couldn't copy/paste. :(
Right--but that cover is from a more recent edition, so I'm wondering if the preface is too... I suppose the only way to find out is to dig up a physical copy of the early book. It's started to become a fascination for me--is that what McCaffery intended when she wrote the series? Or did it just dovetail nicely as it evolved? That stuff in the preface started more in The White Dragon (I think it was) after a good 4-5 books. I don't think there was a hint of space colonization/genetic manipulation in the beginning books (like the preface said), so the reader discovered it at the same time as the characters.
I will check on my books at home tonight, I started buying them almost 30 years ago, so that should be definitive enough, I think. = )
My copy of Dragonflight was printed in 1991 and has that introduction. That said, I've always thought of the first books as fantasy. I'm not too big on science fiction myself, and if it didn't have some fantasy elements, I probably wouldn't have read the series. It's a tough call either way.I would classify A Wrinkle in Time as Sci-fi as well I think.
I never noticed before how so many of my favorite books are too science fiction to be fantasy and too fantasy to be science fiction.It's a tough call but I do consider the Pern books to be more fantasy than not. Would a science fiction fan consider it science fiction?
What I have to say is the bigger problem with me is on what the publisher categorize books. Some books I think publishers does it wrong just because it is based on the author, not the type of book it actually is.So the whole Winkle in Time and Pern thing to me is that one, it came out during a time, the 60s, where there was almost no fantasy been written. Second the publishers have marked Pern as science fiction even since it came out, and for a Winkle in Time, fantasy, which can be clearly seen on the covers. So the question to decide is do readers trust the publishers to categorize book for us?
Dragonriders of Pern is science fiction because it has technology in the later books. The thing with it is that early in the timeline, the people of Pern had technology, but then lost it, and then rediscovered it some times later.
Traci wrote: "I never noticed before how so many of my favorite books are too science fiction to be fantasy and too fantasy to be science fiction.It's a tough call but I do consider the Pern books to be more fa..."
Not sure. I did read the very first book years and years ago. It felt like fantasy but I barely remember it. Any sci-fi czars around here?
Hint.
Ala
That's why we're discussing things, Kev.
I went with science fiction as "back when" I went through a Pern period and you move from simply dragons burning thread to how it all started. HOWEVER, I backed off on conversation where some of the "Pern is fantasy" folks got rather "exercised" about the subject and I don't feel that strongly about it. I suppose it's a bit like the "Star Wars is fantasy" argument. To some it just seems obvious but others feel somehow defensive about it or something. I'll go along with the decision, just don't nominate the Foundation Trilogy or Rendezvous with Rama or something as fantasy, LOL. :)
Kevin wrote: "What I have to say is the bigger problem with me is on what the publisher categorize books. Some books I think publishers does it wrong just because it is based on the author, not the type of book ..."I thoroughly agree that a huge problem is how/what the publisher categorizes books. I don't think they give a fig about how a book is correctly classified, they are all about how to sell them. So, for example, my public library categorizes all Urban Fantasy (you know; witches, demons, werewolves/panthers/etc, vampires, and the like) as just general Fiction. When I asked why, they said because the publisher did, and the reason is so as to not scare away all those readers by forcing them to look at shelves in the 'Fantasy' area. Thus in effect contributing to the further stigmatazition of Fantasy readers.
Tracy wrote: "Would a science fiction fan consider it science fiction?"
I'm very much a science fiction fan and I consider the Pern series to be SF, not fantasy.
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "HOWEVER, I backed off on conversation where some of the "Pern is fantasy" folks got rather "exercised" about the subject and I don't feel that strongly about it. I suppose it's a bit like the "Star Wars is fantasy" argument. To some it just seems obvious but others feel somehow defensive about it or something. I'll go along with the decision, just don't nominate the Foundation Trilogy or Rendezvous with Rama or something as fantasy, LOL. :) "I'm with you, Sensei.
Look, I don't care but we've got to make a decision or I'll make the decision for you.
If necessary I will create a poll but yall gotta figure it out. The above pics show the intro. Someone else - who has read the series - needs to tell me if they get into specific detail on the SCIENCE part of science fiction.
Now scadaddle! Figure it out!
MrsJoseph wrote: "Someone else - who has read the series - needs to tell me if they get into specific detail on the SCIENCE part of science fiction."Well, it's like space opera, in that most of the science (like the space ship technology) is not explained in a nuts and bolts way. Right from the beginning though, you've got little comments hinting about the lost technology, and some outright saying how they've lost certain technical abilities over the years. (ie: how some of the oldest Holds and Weyrs are amazingly carved out of solid rock and later ones are much more painstakingly hand-hewn.)
MrsJoseph wrote: "Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "HOWEVER, I backed off on conversation where some of the "Pern is fantasy" folks got rather "exercised" about the subject and I don't feel that strongly about it. I suppos..."I've always thought of a Wrinkle In Time as SF because the father who vanished was a scientist...
As to the Pern universe - I'd defer to the author. Anne McCaffrey is adamant, and always has been, that her story is SF.
So is Snow Queen SF - the whole basis of it was a star based hegemony/and a cultural clash between a star faring culture and a more primitive one/and (WARE SPOILER!!!! don't read further...(though it's mild enough here for the sake of argument)
(the abuse of an alien species to prolong life.
Janny wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "HOWEVER, I backed off on conversation where some of the "Pern is fantasy" folks got rather "exercised" about the subject and I don't feel that strongly ..."Well, you can't argue with the woman who wrote the book! Sci-Fi it is. Sorry Pern folks. Hate mail should be sent to anne.mccaffrey@hatemail.com. :)
Sonw Queen is now dubbed sci-fi, too. I'll update the list.
I've thought of a favorite questionable book. The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul. I don't automatically think fantasy with this title but it does have characters from Norse mythology and has somewhat similiar themes as American Gods. Although very different in style. Any opinions. I can go either way but thought I'd ask.
Traci wrote: "I've thought of a favorite questionable book. The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul. I don't automatically think fantasy with this title but it does have characters from Norse mythology and..."I've never read it but from the descriptions I'd consider them science fiction.
Anyone else?
I found the synopsis on wikipedia. It says science fiction but I was actually thinking comedy or mystery over science fiction or fantasy. Shrug. :)Anyway why it could be fantasy, like I said it's a little like American Gods in that man creates his own gods and gives them life but without worship they lose power. Odin and Thor are fighting and Thor is cursed to transform objects when angry, like a plane that turns into an eagle.
Never read it either, but it sounds like SciFi to me.
Ok. Cool. I'm accepting the science fiction tag.
I'm in the process of collecting nominations and I have a question about a book:Last Call
What do you all think? Is this fantasy or no?
I also have another question: Anthologies and grapic novels: Are they elgible? I'm not sure about this and I can't locate the 1st book in the series: The Sandman: Season of Mists
Comments?
Fantasy Aficionados
Books mentioned in this topic
Sookie Stackhouse 8 Volume Set (other topics)I Am Not a Serial Killer (other topics)
I Am Not a Serial Killer (other topics)
The Winter King (other topics)
World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War (other topics)
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Probably wouldn't nominate any of them as all-time ..."
I wouldn't want alot of nominations for tween romances because of the controversy not because I don't read them. Could you imagine the uproar if every third person voted for Twilight ;o I think most others would fly under the radar though.