Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows
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Do you think Lily would have been proud of Snape?
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Aug 21, 2011 02:44PM
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YES! I THINK SHE WOULD HAVE!!
I'd definitely like to think so! I think she would have been proud and a little surprised at the depth of how much he cared and still cared for her enough to do everything that he did!
HECK YEAH!!!LILY AND SNAPE FOREVER~ !! <3
How could she not be proud of him!! I mean, she was proud of Harry... he isn't nearly as cool as Snape!!
Yes, she should have! He'd been taking care of her son through all the years.
I don't think Lily would've felt 'proud' of Sev per se. Lily ended up hating Snape for what he did at school, his obsession with the Dark Arts and his friends. Snape didn't like Harry, he hated Harry because he was split image of his father, James. Snape only did what he did because Harry was Lily's son and it was partly his fault that she died anyway. It was like Snape was just trying to cover up his guilt. Lily and Snape both chose two different paths and I still don't think that Lily would've forgiven Snape for everything he did. ^^This doesn't mean that I don't like Snape as a character, his character is full of depth, but as a person I absolutely hate him. James Potter is a much better person and character for me. Lily/James is my OTP.
Of course she would have been proud of Snape. Not only did he do all that he could to protect her son, but also was brave enough to let her go by knowing that is what she wanted and that would be best for her. I love Snape! Who wouldn't be proud of such an incredibly unbelievable man?
ϟHinaϟ wrote: "I don't think Lily would've felt 'proud' of Sev per se. Lily ended up hating Snape for what he did at school, his obsession with the Dark Arts and his friends. Snape didn't like Harry, he hated Har..."That is a good thought! I mean, it does make absolute sense. :)
ϟHinaϟ wrote: "Lily ended up hating Snape for what he did at school, his obsession with the Dark Arts and his friends"I don't think Lily hated Snape. I think she was disappointed that he chosen such the Dark Arts and understood that it was time to let him go. It's funny that you would say that James was a better person. To me, he's an absolute jerk. If he was a real person, I would despise him.
Dani wrote:I don't think Lily hated Snape. I think she was disappointed that he chose..."
I agree with you. Just imagine if you had been bullied at school then later on you would grow with hatred.
ϟHinaϟ wrote: "I don't think Lily would've felt 'proud' of Sev per se. Lily ended up hating Snape for what he did at school, his obsession with the Dark Arts and his friends. Snape didn't like Harry, he hated Har..."
In the book, it stated that Snape had always cared for Harry.
In the book, it stated that Snape had always cared for Harry.
Well, sometimes....becuase he was being really mean sometimes
Snape constantly abused and humiliated Harry. He may have been working to protect him at the same time, but that behavior wouldn't exactly inspire pride from most mothers.
Yes she would be proud! Snape protected Harry in a way, and she would be so proud!
Sarika wrote: "ϟHinaϟ wrote: "I don't think Lily would've felt 'proud' of Sev per se. Lily ended up hating Snape for what he did at school, his obsession with the Dark Arts and his friends. Snape didn't like Harr..."Thank you. (: Glad it does.
Dani wrote: "ϟHinaϟ wrote: "Lily ended up hating Snape for what he did at school, his obsession with the Dark Arts and his friends"I don't think Lily hated Snape. I think she was disappointed that he chose..."
I think Lily definitely didn't like Snape. Snape chose his Death Eater friends over her, he was more interested in Dark Arts, he called other muggleborns 'mudblood' and to top it all off Snape ended up calling Lily a mudblood. I think the evidence all points to Lily definitely not liking Snape.
I agree she was disappointed but the fact that Snape was being hypocritical about muggleborns quite frankly disgusted Lily.
Really? I am a James Potter fangirl through and through.
I disagree about the fact that James is a jerk. Okay he did some stupid things during his 1st-5th years. He hexed people for the fun of it, but he matured greatly when he was in his 6th to 7th year. He ended up being a much better person, whereas Snape didn't. He continued to support Voldemort and the Dark Arts, he bullied people with his friends.
On top of that James Potter was madly in love with Lily, he sort of saw her as a challenge at first, but in his 5th year it grew to actual true love. James never gave up, he completely changed for Lily. Lily chose James over Snape. That should prove something big.
Also if a Lily Evans hadn't existed I think Snape would've stuck with Voldemort, which is quite unnerving.
Sendy wrote: "Dani wrote:I don't think Lily hated Snape. I think she was disappointed that he chose..."
I agree with you. Just imagine if you had been bullied at school then later on you would grow with hatred."
Okay. The reason why James bullied Snape was because of his obsession with the Dark Arts and because of his Death Eater friends. Granted, that's not why you should bully someone but James did mature. Snape did not.
Alannah wrote: "ϟHinaϟ wrote: "I don't think Lily would've felt 'proud' of Sev per se. Lily ended up hating Snape for what he did at school, his obsession with the Dark Arts and his friends. Snape didn't like Harr..."No it doesn't. I quote:
'"Snape: " I have spied for you and lied for you, put myself in mortal danger for you. Everything was supposed to be to keep Lily Potter's son safe. Now you tell me you have been raising him like a pig for slaughter--"
"But this is touching, Severus," said Dumbledore seriously. "Have you grown to care for the boy, after all?"
"For him?" shouted Snape. "Expecto Patronum!"
From the tip of his wand burst the silver doe: She landed on the office floor, bounded once across the office and soared out of the window. Dumbledore watched her fly away, and as her silvery glow faded he turned back to Snape, and his eyes were full of tears.
"After all this time?"
"Always," said Snape."'
In other words. He didn't care for Harry at all.
Snape had been protecting Harry throughout the whole series under the pact he had with Dumbledore, and despite hating him for being James's son, he also loved him for being Lily's. But simutaneously, he spent a lot of time humiliating Harry in front of his peers, as James did back when they were at school. I think Lily would probably be conflicted whether or not she should be pround of him. Maybe the years of bullying would be overshadowed after he saved Harry's life. I don't know... all I know is that Snape was one of my favourite characters.
Alannah wrote: "Snape had been protecting Harry throughout the whole series under the pact he had with Dumbledore, and despite hating him for being James's son, he also loved him for being Lily's. But simutaneousl..."Can I stress the words 'under the pact'. Snape wanted Dumbledore to save only Lily's life, Dumbledore was disgusted and THEN Snape begged Dumbledore to save all three of their lives. When Lily and James died it was Dumbledore who convinced Snape to do what he did. Dumbledore said that Harry had Lily's eyes and he was Lily's last memory which is the ONLY reason why Snape did what he did. He didn't care for Harry at all.
I also don't think you can call his affection for Lily as 'love', in my opinion what Snape did for Harry was out of guilt and regret because it was partly his fault that Lily died in the first place.
Snape saw Harry as a James Potter with Lily's eyes. Snape was a great character, full of depth, but a horrible person.
Although I agree that Snape didn't care for Harry at all, I do think that he loved Lily. Can you imagine the amount of compulsion it would have to take to ask Voldemort to spare a Muggle-born woman because you were in love with her?
Mickey wrote: "Although I agree that Snape didn't care for Harry at all, I do think that he loved Lily. Can you imagine the compulsion it would have to take to ask Voldemort to spare a Muggle-born woman because y..."That I agree on, but I guess it would have been easier for Snape to ask then most since Voldemort trusted him and had quite a bit of faith in him.
Muggle-borns were thought in that group to be absolute scum. The idea of a prominent Death Eater having a Muggle-born wife would have been crazy, akin to a Nazi officer having a Jewish wife or a high ranking KKK leader having a black wife. It would have been crazy to think it could have worked. It could easily have been career (or even literal) suicide to ask. I think Snape's love for Lily was his one saving grace, and underscores the theme in the books about love being powerful and the idea that Voldemort will fail because he can not understand the power of love. Voldemort kept a man near him who betrayed him because he threatened (and eventually killed) the woman he loved. Voldemort couldn't imagine that Snape would continue to love and be loyal to Lily after she had died.
ϟHinaϟ wrote: "Okay. The reason why James bullied Snape was because of his obsession with the Dark Arts and because of his Death Eater friends. Granted, that's not why you should bully someone but James did mature. Snape did not. "
No, remember in The Prince's Tale, before they were all put into houses, James and Sirius were already bullying Snape. Also, James apparently never grew out of his jerkish habits. When Harry confronted Sirius and Remus about what he saw in the Penseive, Sirius said that James's head deflated a little bit and he stopped bullying people when Lily was around. Besides, if I'm not mistaking, Snape was the only person James bullied.
I think Lily Potter would have been very proud of Snape, to see her son protected by an old friend. Even though they had their differences and the friendship fell apart, I like to think of protecting Harry as Snape's own form of reconciliation with the girl he always loved.
I believe Lily unknowingly taught Snape about what it means to love someone. Reading "The Prince's Tale" in the final book, we found out that Snape did not have a very good life at home with his parents fighting all the time. He learned how to hate very quickly, and he is always very eager to judge people. I think this is why he joined the Death Eaters in the first place. However, when Snape saw that love means nothing to Voldemort when he mercilessly killed the Potters that fateful night, he finally understood that Voldemort and the Death Eaters had it wrong all along. That night, Voldemort lost. He gained the two most powerful enemies he could possibly have: Harry Potter and Severus Snape. And all because of what Voldemort was never able to understand: love.
Lily understood this, and with an example of love such as the one Lily set the night she died, it would have been very difficult for Snape NOT to understand that he chose the wrong side. I think Lily would have been very proud to know that Snape's final hours were devoted to Harry, her son, so that her love could continue to live in him and bring an end to the one who had tried to destroy it.
I believe Lily unknowingly taught Snape about what it means to love someone. Reading "The Prince's Tale" in the final book, we found out that Snape did not have a very good life at home with his parents fighting all the time. He learned how to hate very quickly, and he is always very eager to judge people. I think this is why he joined the Death Eaters in the first place. However, when Snape saw that love means nothing to Voldemort when he mercilessly killed the Potters that fateful night, he finally understood that Voldemort and the Death Eaters had it wrong all along. That night, Voldemort lost. He gained the two most powerful enemies he could possibly have: Harry Potter and Severus Snape. And all because of what Voldemort was never able to understand: love.
Lily understood this, and with an example of love such as the one Lily set the night she died, it would have been very difficult for Snape NOT to understand that he chose the wrong side. I think Lily would have been very proud to know that Snape's final hours were devoted to Harry, her son, so that her love could continue to live in him and bring an end to the one who had tried to destroy it.
i think she would have been proud.... i still feel sorry for Snape...he always loved lily... and because of her and wat happened that fateful night... he sat and cried about her... it was sooo moving and i think through his patronus that he still and always will love lily
Dani wrote: "ϟHinaϟ wrote: "Okay. The reason why James bullied Snape was because of his obsession with the Dark Arts and because of his Death Eater friends. Granted, that's not why you should bully someone but ..."James was eleven at the time. What can you expect from an eleven year old boy. Snape wanted to be in Slytherin and James in Gryffindor, coming from a pureblood family that weren't cruel to muggleborns he would've thought that was wrong:
'Lupin: "I wouldn't want you to judge your father on what you saw there, Harry. He was only fifteen --"
"I'm fifteen!" said Harry heatedly.
"Look Harry," said Sirius placatingly, "James and Snape hated each other from the moment they set eyes on each other, it was just one of those things, you can understand that, can't you? I think James was everything Snape wanted to be -- he was popular, he was good at Quidditch, good at pretty much everything. And Snape was just this little oddball who was up to his eyes in the Dark Arts and James -- whatever else he may have appeared to you, Harry -- always hated the Dark Arts."
That pretty much explains.
Yes, James did. Why else would Lily have gone out with him and married him? It clearly says that James used to always make a fool of himself when Lily was around. And as you said his ego deflated and he stopped hexing people for the fun of it:
'"And," said Harry doggedly, determined to say everything that was on his mind now he was here, "he kept looking over at the girls by the lake, hoping they were watching him!"
"Oh well, he always made a fool of himself whenever Lily was around," said Sirius, shrugging. "He couldn't stop himself showing off whenever he got near her."
"How come she married him?" Harry asked miserably, "She hated him!"
"Nah, she didn't," said Sirius.
"She started going out with him in seventh year," said Lupin.
"Once James had deflated his head a bit," said Sirius.
"And stopped hexing people for the fun of it," said Lupin.'
James matured greatly and this proves it. So the fact that Snape had Death Eater friends, studied the Dark Arts, called Lily a mudblood is completely alright to what James did? Lily went out with James, if he was still arrogant she wouldn't have. Also hexing 'people' is the key word here.
One more thing. It was partly Snape's fault that Lily died. Let's just say that Lily was saved do you all really think that she would have loved Snape for what he did? James and Harry would've died that night and on top of that Lily was a muggleborn she might've been killed some other way, maybe by Snape's other Death Eater friends. If I'm not mistaken Mucliber cursed Mary MacDonald at school and Mucliber was one of Snape's friends.
ϟHinaϟ wrote: "One more thing. It was partly Snape's fault that Lily died. Let's just say that Lily was saved do you all really think that she would have loved Snape for what he did? James and Harry would've died..."Snape didn't know Voldemort was going to target the Potters. He was just being a good subordinate. And once he found out Voldemort's plan, he immediately began taking action to prevent it from happening. If anything, it's Dumbledore's and Peter's fault that Lily died, because Dumbledore was off exploring that night James and Lily died and Peter betrayed his friends, knowing they would die. Do you not feel that was worst than what Snape did?
Other than the Potters, Neville's parents were the other family Voldemort could have targeted. Because, they had already escaped Voldemort himself three times. If they could escape The Dark Lord himself, they could have easily defeated any of his followers (except perhaps Snape). So, no, I doubt Lily could, who was said to be a brillant witch anyway, would have been killed by some other lowly Death Eater.
Dani wrote: "ϟHinaϟ wrote: "One more thing. It was partly Snape's fault that Lily died. Let's just say that Lily was saved do you all really think that she would have loved Snape for what he did? James and Harr..."Oh definitely. I hate Peter for what he did, but what Snape did isn't exactly forgivable.
ϟHinaϟ wrote: "Dani wrote: "ϟHinaϟ wrote: "One more thing. It was partly Snape's fault that Lily died. Let's just say that Lily was saved do you all really think that she would have loved Snape for what he did? J..."Idk. It'd have been one thing if he knew Voldermort was gonna target the Potters. But, he was really just doing his job. I don't condone what he did, but I don't give him ALL the blame either
I don't think Lily owes Snape her pride. Just because she's dead doesn't mean she would have acted any differently towards him to when she was alive. In a press conference/interview JK answered some kid's question about whether Snape would have helped Harry if he wasn't in love with Lily, or if Harry wasn't Lily's son (something like that), and she said "definitely not". I think that the fact that Snape would only protect a student based on his own romantic history and lingering attachment to Lily rather than for the sake of doing what is right is something that would offend Lily rather than make her proud.
Deeelljay wrote: "I don't think Lily owes Snape her pride. Just because she's dead doesn't mean she would have acted any differently towards him to when she was alive. In a press conference/interview JK answered som..."Agreed.
Deeelljay wrote: "I don't think Lily owes Snape her pride. Just because she's dead doesn't mean she would have acted any differently towards him to when she was alive. In a press conference/interview JK answered som..."
agreed as well...awesome point
agreed as well...awesome point
I think that lily would have been proud of snape for protecting harry from getting killed but i think she would not have been proud of giving voldemort important information that would have betrayed harry's safety.
I kind of feel like a lot of you guys are over looking something. Lilly's ability to forgive. She was willing to give her life for her son, so that he could be "the boy that lived". Do you not think in a heart like this, there would not have been room to forgive Snape? The man who ran to Dombledore and gave up the Dark Lord, knowing that it would cause him great pain and even death if he found out? Snape did everything. He saved Harry many times. After Snape killed Dombledore, and Harry chased him down, Snape merely countered all the spells and threw him back. Sure he said it was for the Dark Lord to kill Harry, but we all know why he did it. He couldn't kill Harry because he was Lilly's child. Just like he sent him the Patronous that showed him where the sword was. He gave Harry the only tool that was able to destroy Voldermort.
Snape reminds me of a person who is in too deep and does the only thing he can think of to help. He might have had some horrible ways of going about it, but the fact that Harry gives his own son Snape's name and calls him one of the Bravest men he knew should prove something. Harry hated Snape up until the last minute. He hated him for what he did to his family, for what he had done to his friends. Then when he realized that everything Snape had done was really to protect not only him, but to honor his mother, I think Lilly would have came to the same conclusion.
Gene wrote: "I kind of feel like a lot of you guys are over looking something. Lilly's ability to forgive. She was willing to give her life for her son, so that he could be "the boy that lived". Do you not t..."I'm not saying that Lily wouldn't forgive Snape -Im just saying that forgiveness doesnt always end in pride, as the topic asks. I don't believe Snape's actions deserve 'pride', and I would assume that Lily, being the fair, courageous and as you mentioned, forgiving natured Gryffindor she is, would'nt approve altogether of protecting Harry on the sole basis of his connection to her. If some other random kid was the 'chosen one' then the wizarding world would be screwed! Yes, Harry named his kid after Snape, but Harry didn't know that the only reason Snape protected him was because of his mother. Harry might be proud, but would Lily be? It is all speculative after all. I'd love to hear what JK Rowling would say about it.
I think the one thing that Lily could be proud of is that Snape overcame all the negativity of his character in order to help others even if the intention was only "WWLD", and exhibited the positive characteristics of a Gryffindor under the circumstances that would beg him to act like a Slytherin (or at least the stereotypes that are put forth for each house). I personally find it all the more poignant that Snape would only do it for the love of Lily - but the entire series is about love, in all its tragic forms. Like you said, Snape is in too deep, and I feel sorry for the two of them - a romance gone wrong.
Yes, Harry named his kid after Snape, but Harry didn't know that the only reason Snape protected him was because of his mother.
I dont know. I mean Harry saw the memories. Just like we put 2+2 to equal 4 im sure Harry did the same. If he looked at those memories and couldn't see that Snape had feelings for Lilly and that his actions were inspired, if you were, by those feelings then Harry was rather dense.
Deeelljay wrote: " Yes, Harry named his kid after Snape, but Harry didn't know that the only reason Snape protected him was because of his mother."Yes, Harry did know that was the only reason that Snape protected, because he saw the memory where Snape's patronus was doe, just like Lily's and when he faced off against Voldemort, he told Voldemort that Snape was a double agent for Dumbledore because he had loved Lily nearly all his life.
I know that Lily would've been proud of Snape. I know I am and I know that Dumbledore would have been as well. I can't believe how well he hid that fact that he was on Harry's side.
"Deeelljay, why would you be sorry for both of them- a romanace gone wrong? Lily loved and chose James. "I feel sorry for Lily and Snape because its as if Snape never knew how he was destroying their relationship. I think it is sad to watch two people unable to fix things because they're not sure how, and time ticks away. But at other times, he wasn't at fault, so again, I think it is a "romance gone wrong".
As for putting 2 and 2 together,I suppose Harry did know from what was gathered in the pensive and through dialogue. I for one though, might forgive but wouldn't feel proud of Snape. As a reader, I think it doesn't make sense for Lily to be "proud" of Snape. And I don't know if that was really the effect JK was going for in the end - I think she just wanted us to realise the complexity of Snape's motivations. Anyway, thats a different topic. Having said that, perhaps the last few comments I've made were really whether I personally am proud of Snape, rather than Lily or Harry. But in the end I think the reader's opinion on characters will override the characters' opinions of themselves anyway!
I tink Lily would have because Snape was really helping Harry without any of us knowing until the end, althouggh I cant say Lily wouldn't have been surprised.
when i hread the last book i cried when i found out about snape and i cired in the movie but indo think lilly would be proud of snape James on the other hand maybe and if so just a bit
Lily would've definitely been proud of Severus! Yes he may have had some resentment towards Harry but that is to be expected in a situation like that. In the end he was brave and loyal and I believe he was a true hero. :)
i think she would have been.... and the fact that he had resentment towards harry was soo understandable; he was James' son...and Snape and James were like mortal enemies... i rkn it was mostly because Snape was jealous of James...coz James had evrything that snape wanted....
Vanita wrote: "Well, sometimes....becuase he was being really mean sometimes"
That's because he didn't want to give the hint that he was on Harry's side. If Voldemort got into Harry's head he could find out. Dumbledore says it all in the seventh. He had to play the part. Therefore he had to be mean sometimes. Some of it may have been that he was getting back at Harry for what James did.
That's because he didn't want to give the hint that he was on Harry's side. If Voldemort got into Harry's head he could find out. Dumbledore says it all in the seventh. He had to play the part. Therefore he had to be mean sometimes. Some of it may have been that he was getting back at Harry for what James did.
DEFINITELY! *tear*
Of course. But... she would love him for it, not nessecarily be proud. She would definitely respect him.
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