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The Top 5 Things I Hate to See in BW/WM Romance Novels!
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Stacey-I read your post and I have to agree with Nos.1 & 4 the most.
Regards no.1 - the bratty heroine. This yanks my chain the absolute most in any romance, but I feel it happens more in IR romance. I hate when the heroine is just pissy all the time and the hero does handstands for her. I think maybe there is the perception in romance that writers need to show that the hero is really in love so he'll put up with all kinds of crap. But it is an automatic Fail for me.
re: No. 4, the cliche. Again, I can probably list a ton that recur in any romance. But for IR romances in particular, I have lost count of how times I've read where there is the obligatory scene where a family member,(usually from the black heroine's side) who feels they have a right to loudly and publicly denounce her choice for a date/boyfriend/spouse usually at a party or celebration. Who acts like that? In my home growing up rules of civility and the responsibility of the host to a guest in your home was pounded into our heads. My grandmother would've knocked us upside the head with her shoe if we were ever rude to a guest, regardless of our personal feelings.
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Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors
(last edited Aug 11, 2011 03:28PM)
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Tina, I agree with you on the behavior exhibited by the characters in the books. My aunt is not a big fan of IR dating, but she's very polite, and she wouldn't act like a fool if I brought a white guy to her house. Because she has manners.
Tina, I agree with you. I made that number one because it gets on my last nerve. I can't understand why black women (who writes the majority of these books) always paint the black woman as this big meanie. This type of character is so unreal and it just perpetrates that myth that black women are mean, have attitudes and that we treat all men (good and bad) with disdain. I'm sick of it. I can understand if the heroine has a genuine reason not to like the hero at first but not her just being mean for no reason. I've stopped reading a lot of IR books because of this. Just because a woman is black and independent means she's gotta be mean? I can't stand that stereotype.
Danielle, I agree with you as well. You and Tina made great points. The majority of people, even if they don't agree with IR dating will be polite to the person. They might talk about it behind closed doors but most people have the manners to be respectful to the people's faces even if they don't agree with interracial dating. So I too find this very far fetched when I see it in IR novels.Marie said she loved the list and agreed with it too.
Seriously it's just like some writers do a cookie-cutter thing when it comes to IR romance. Be creative!
Best Wishes!
http://www.stacy-deanne.net
What an insightful blog post, Stacey! It should remind writers that there is more differences between people than simply race, and to hinge an entire story on that one difference is a huge mistake. In addition, no one likes the "mean for no reason" heroine either!
Dahlia
Loved the blog. I also hate cliches. This includes when a writer has a limited vocabulary. Pillow like lips makes me think of someone having a bad experience with Botox (my ultimate mental image for this is "Pussylips" from the Nip/Tuck show-google it and look for image-funny). And for once, I'd like to read about a guy with an average size penis, instead of some mutant "love missile" (yes, I actually read that one in a book). What's wrong with a guy, black or white, having a decent sized penis but with awesome skills. I bet a girl will take that over the Raminator giving her a UTI any day!!
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Just because a man is large, doesn't mean he can do an outstanding job. Writers need to be realistic when it comes down to private parts.
A woman should never fall in love with a man's private part. The heart is what counts. Large private part doesn't equal love.
Nice post, Stacy."Love missile"? I give them points for being original...?
I had lunch with a friend today, and I told her I'm running out of euphemisms to use to describe the private parts. I couldn't remember if I'd used "member" yet, so I told her I may add that to list. She advised me not to. LOL.
I agree with Arch about a man's size. Being big downstairs does not mean he is a good lover at all. Speaking from personal experience. LOL!
I'm also sick of the outrageous descriptions for penises. I mean some of it sounds ridiculous and all it makes me do is go, "Ouch!" when I read some of these love scenes because I can't see the woman being in anything but pain when it comes to these gigantic submarines these men apparently have. LOL!
LMBO!!! gigantic submarines! Hilarious!
Great post Stacy-deanne... I have a pet peeve of my own I can't stand it when you are reading a so called I/R book then somehow the Hero finds out that his grandfather or Dad is black or maybe long lost mother...
That is when its labeled a BW/WM book
Delaney, I've been introduced to the best website. If nothing else for giving you a great laugh:http://www.sex-lexis.com/
So many alternatives it is an absolute delight.
Billy, you were not kidding! Why do I feel I've lived a sheltered life now that I've checked out that site?And you're right, some of it is hilarious. Definitely going to bookmark this.
Stacy-Deanne wrote: "I'm also sick of the outrageous descriptions for penises. I mean some of it sounds ridiculous and all it makes me do is go, "Ouch!" when I read some of these love scenes because I can't see the wom..."It appears, while many women - not sure how many, like reading about well-endowed men, few would like to tango with one in real life. In my writing, my men are well hung - however, I tell the truth about how many women, again - not sure how many - will feel trapped beneath such a man. I'm with you - OUCH and Whoa - wait a minute here! This is the truth of the matter, atleast for me, I'm sorry - I cannot for the life of me, even in the fictional mind of my imagination, imagine a woman taking in something that is extended beyond the space she has to give it. Nope... so my women squirm, yelp - struggle and back off and need to adjust - while the men recognize the fact that they have more to give than always necessary, LOL.
So yeah, I'll give you a big boy - but she ain't -(heroine)- always built like a mack truck to take it. Thing is, I've gotten some readers who voiced that they WANTED to read about a woman who could give the McPherson's - (my men - brothers from my drama series, Bomaw) - a good ole ride without complaining - in fact enjoying every bit. Hmmmm, see - this is my problem - I can't imagine it, I just can't. I feel pain, I feel discomfort and thus, that's what I write. To be fair however, I know there are some Susie's who can take it on, with a nod and a wink of bring it on - but I cannot for the life of me write that. So I figure this way, all those that CAN take it on, will write it - while I, for my part, must keep it real.
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I focus my stories around tension. If I decide to add a love scene in my stories, it will be a leave it to your imagination scene.
Arch wrote: "I think a lot of heroes are written large, because that's what a lot of women sees as being a man. I don't care for sex in a story. I don't like detailed sex and I don't read erotic stories. Behind..."Good for you Arch! Yes, I do write fly on the wall stories, meaning, can see it all - but in truth, I'm picky and iffy about what I read myself. I have a few romances that I've purchased on my Kindle that I can't finish, won't finish because the scenes were SOOOOO degrading to the female character. THAT is my PET PEEVE! Oh do I hate it hate it hate it SO!!! Why must women write stories about women and especially BLACK WOMEN being degraded and low classed? No dignity, no self-respect, no honor, no challenge, no carriage. They mistake all of that, for writing a mean female character - doesn't work. I don't get it? If the story is good, and the characters are engaging and interesting, well developed, I can't easily enjoy the story without reading play by play. Reason when I do write a novel, the intimacy is where it should be, the first I may give the goods, but it's less as the story progresses. I think it's a trap in writing where quality of a good story is missing. NO - before I get jumped on... NO - I'm not saying there aren't many stories that depict the elicit act that aren't good, not true, there are many very well written stories giving you everything - however - there are TOO MANY written for nothing more than titillation - stupid women characters I cannot relate to AT ALL - and men that are plain NASTY. Just that kind of story made me almost toss my Kindle against the wall, I had to catch myself.
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Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors
(last edited Aug 25, 2011 10:48AM)
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I don't mind sex scenes, depending on how they are written. I don't like raunchy, kinky sex scenes. I don't like the ugly terms for sex or the anatomy parts. Given a choice between that and no sex, I'd do without any sex scenes whatsoever. It's not sexy to me. It's off-putting. I have read some beautifully written very hot sex scenes that I didn't find disgusting in the least, but I have backed off erotic romance because the trend seems to be more is better. Less doesn't cut it, and I'd rather not spend my money and end up with a bad taste in my mouth. The biggest, most powerful sex organ is the brain, and that can be stimulated in the most subtle of ways, without the clothes ever coming off or actually having or describing sex.
To any who enjoy reading or writing erotic sex, I don't mean to judge you or make you feel like I don't respect you. It's just a personal taste issue for me.
Lady Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "The biggest, most powerful sex organ is the brain, and that can be stimulated in the most subtle of ways, without the clothes ever coming off or actually having or describing sex.To any who enjoy reading or writing erotic sex, I don't mean to judge you or make you feel like I don't respect you. It's just a personal taste issue for me."
Oh my goodness, you could not have said it better! I agree totally with you. Give me a good uplifting read any day! That ole marketing idea - "Sex Sells" has gone waaaay too far. I'm truly and honestly hurt to my heart when I read stories by black women that put their black women characters in the lowest place they can imagine them being in. Why? I don't get it? What has happened to us and the way we used to think and feel? Why don't we write to uplift - to elevate and enrich? Because of this... as you said, I don't touch anything that is labeled erotica. Just too soul-destroying.
Again, I know there's a niche market for it - as some call it escapism - but why do you wish to escape to a place like that, is beyond me. Not saying these things to dis anyone or put down any form of writing, but - geez, the black woman has gone through HELL to rise - and so to see black women snatching the idea back - it's disturbing to me. I just wish we would use the intelligence and sensitivity that we all have to be more creative - I wish we had a club or drive to encourage each of us to strive towards being #1 bestsellers... if we're shooting for that - the stories will have to be more grounded, creative, imaginative and interesting to a broader audience. Oh I would so love to see that.
Mod
Another thing that I don't like about many interracial books and that's the race issue. I don't write my stories with race issues, because everyone doesn't have a problem with interracial.
message 23:
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The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
(last edited Aug 25, 2011 02:38PM)
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As most people on these boards know, I am a huge supporter of the IR erotica/erotic romance genre. I firmly believe in the right of women of color to express themselves and their desires without fear or censure or being subject to certain stereotypes. I like the kink, LOL. Having said that, the real problem isn't erotic--how much is too much--but the lack of storytelling and of complex characters. I don't care how short a story is, there's just NO excuse for the characters to be cardboard or stuck-on-stupid. If the black heroine is interested in the hero, then don't play silly games or come off as fake "tough". Self-sufficient and assured is fine. Sexually adventurous is definitely fine. Intelligent, well-traveled and NOT desparate for a man--a definite PLUS! But I've read too many erotic IR's (mostly shorts and novellas) where there's just epic fail all-around. Contrary to popular opinion, it's not easy writing good erotica/romance, but it's worth the time and effort to do so. I don't even care if there's an HEA or and HFN, as long as the story makes sense and the characters make me care enough about them. And I cannot believe that after all tnis time, authors are still using race as a plot. I thought we were so over that. Seriously, who actually comes up to an interracial couple and gets into their faces like that? I'd LOVE for some stranger to pull that crap on me and my significant other. They might get looks yes, but actually walking up and saying something?
And why does EVERY IR hero have to be white? There are men of other races who find black women attractive but one wouldn't know it from the covers. Granted, white men are hot (long hair a must for me, LOL), but so are asian, native american, indian and other ethnicities. It would be nice for IR authors to mix it up a lot more.
Lady Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "The biggest, most powerful sex organ is the brain, ..."Hear, hear!
Mod
I think so as well, Danielle.
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(The following is just my pov).
I have as well and it felt too exploitative, disturbing (and sometimes unintentionally comedic) for my taste. I'm rather tired of black women put forward as "sex freaks" and "good enough to bed, try out and not to wed" type of women so I can't get behind that thinking. Sadly, I think some bw (especially young black girls) have fallen into this line of thinking as the only way they can be loved, desired and have an identity thanks to the media's representation for hundreds of years. Blah.
/End socio-psych observation/rant lol
That's why I love discovering works that turn that trope upside down while still showcasing the beauty, independence, sensuality and strength of bw.
Oh! And sensual works on the other hand that have bit of tenderness in the storytelling while describing love scenes are some of my fave works to read. :-)
message 27:
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Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors
(last edited Aug 30, 2011 05:45AM)
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I'm like you though, I need the tenderness and sensual descriptions to inspire all of my senses and to make me care for the characters rather than reading physical descriptions that remove that and focus on what goes where. The characters I read need to be more than just vessels and extended private parts to relieve themselves. :-)
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I agree with what Arch said about not writing IR characters with racial issues. I don't do this in my books either. I don't write the negative side of IR. In my books I just write each character as people like they should be. Just because the couple is an interracial couple it doesn't mean that people are gonna be racist toward them or prejudice. I'd rather show IR couples just being regular couples and not worrying about how their race might affect some racist person.The reason I like to write stories like this is because it is an escape to me. For generations when we've seen IR in books and movies it was the same thing. Everyone was racist against the couple and the couple had to struggle to be together. Well I think now that it's 2011 we should start writing IR books that show these couples as just normal people.
I know it all comes down to our experiences. I also know that racism is real and is here to stay. Believe me, my sisters, I know all too well. But I'd like to take readers away from that side of things because to me that's what reading should do, allow us to escape. I don't wanna always see the cons of interracial relationships. I wanna see the beauty so that's why when I write my IR pairings, I remember that these are people with personalities and though they are different races, they can be together and not have to deal with racism every minute of the day. We know it exists but I don't feel I have to beat folks over the head with it. LOL!
Best Wishes!
Also out of all the IR couples I've known, not one said they actually experienced racism because they were together. Not one. I know this might be rare for certain people, but that's true. Some IR couples aren't subjected to the stuff people assume they have to deal with. I have never come across it either when I was with a white guy. Now I have been discriminated against but just because I was black, not because of who I was with. So I guess I don't have that experience of the racist stuff when you're in an IR relationship. And I know it happens, I'm just saying I don't know if it's as common as some people claim.But even if it is, I don't wanna see it in every IR book. LOL!
With some people writing IR, you wonder if they even have been in an IR relationship ever because the views they share are so stereotypical or dated that people like me and others who date interracially can't connect because the things in the story are so left field. Now I'm not saying you have to have been in an IR relationship to write about them, no. But I am saying that I can tell by reading someone's book whether or not they really have experience with IR dating or if they are just writing it.
I knew a writer who was starting to write IR and she admitted she didn't know anything about white guys personally and had never even spoken to one. But she wanted to have a white hero for her black heroine. Since she knew I dated interracially and have a lot of white friends and pals, she asked me how she could write white people without offending them. I told her to remember that we are all PEOPLE first. We all have our own personalities, thoughts, emotions, desires, likes, dislikes, etc. It has nothing to do with our skin color. I also told her about how she needs to widened her horizons and she really needed to get to know people. I mean you've NEVER ever met a white guy personally before? At her age, I found that a little weird. Seems like you'd have met one once in your life. But I told her she needs to get out and be around different types of people in general and that would help her. The key though is to remember that people don't begin and end with their race no matter what.I also wondered why she wanted to even write IR but didn't ask. LOL!
Best Wishes!
Mod
All my stories are about two people that fall in love with one another, they so happen to be an interracial couple.
I feel that stories should focus on people in general and not race, jobs, etc.
Mod
Oh indeed! I wish you could post this all over the net, especially in the sci-fi writing community during RaceFail. Words every writer should keep in mind with their characters. :-)
What a wonderful, insightful post. I'm thrilled to see that I use none of the 5 dislikes you mention in my upcoming IR romance!I will be checking out your books for a good read!
Check out my new guest post on Marie Rochelle's blog!
http://shopdiva28.blogspot.com/?zx=cb...
Enjoy!
http://www.stacy-deanne.net