Fantasy Aficionados discussion
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How Many Books to a Series? What is your thought?
MrsJoseph wrote: "It's YA but I love The Blue Sword and The Hero and the Crown"We've crossed paths with this before, can't agree more...........love it.
YA or not.
:)
Have you read any Jennifer Roberson? Specifically, Shapechangers....the first of her very long Cheysuli Series.
That book has......... mmmmm...... similarities to The Blue Sword.
Girl unsatisfied, girl kidnapped, girl finds new life...well I don't want to give it away, just in case.
*warning~ There are a lot of books that follow. I think...7 maybe 8
Speaking of long series...and how many should be in them. I really don't mind...as long as the "story" moves forward in each book. Well, the author needs to throw a bone once and a while.I happen to love chronicles. I think it's Roger Zelazny's fault....hmmmm and Piers Anthony.
MrsJoseph wrote: "It's YA but I love The Blue Sword and The Hero and the Crown"The Hero and the Crown was one of the books that first got me into fantasy novels. It and Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman's Dragonlance saga still hold a very special place in my heart.
Sophie wrote: "I've been looking for Wen Spencer's Tinker forever. She's another one that's difficult to find. "Also available as eBook, though not as inexpensively. Both directly from Baen and now from Amazon for Kindle. From Baen, you can purchase in any format you like. Baen books are DRM free.
You can always buy used books on Amazon. Some of them are just a couple of dollars + shipping and handling. Here is a link for Tinker used mass market paperbacks on Amazon.ca:http://www.amazon.ca/gp/offer-listing...
Or look at abebooks.com -- the used book emporium. When I bought my hardback copy of CRYOBURN it had a disc in the back. Imagine my delight, when I found that it had ALL the Vorkosigan novels on it in e format, except only MEMORY.
Brenda ╰☆╮ wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "It's YA but I love The Blue Sword and The Hero and the Crown"We've crossed paths with this before, can't agree more...........love it.
YA or not.
:)
Have you read any Jennifer ..."
I have, I think. But only the Tiger and Del series (and never finished that).
Has anybody noticed that if you're in a charity shop/used book store and you see a series you like, it's always book two for sale!
There is a reason for this: second-book/middle-volume slump. The first volume was (as you would expect) the first volume to sell, and into it the author poured all her skill and vim. When it did sell, and the cry went up for more books, she hastened to write. But since she is now under a deadline, the second book cannot have as much time put into it and, unless care is taken, it is not qutie as good.
I appreciate all the help guys, but I gotta say, you're all wreaking havoc on my TBR pile.
Sophie wrote: "I appreciate all the help guys, but I gotta say, you're all wreaking havoc on my TBR pile.":-D
Sophie wrote: "I appreciate all the help guys, but I gotta say, you're all wreaking havoc on my TBR pile."
Welcome to Goodreads :)
Welcome to Goodreads :)
R.M.F wrote: "Has anybody noticed that if you're in a charity shop/used book store and you see a series you like, it's always book two for sale!"They want you to spend more money and buy book one, of course! The way to get back at them for this is to buy just book two and enjoy it by itself. ;)
Sophie wrote: "I appreciate all the help guys, but I gotta say, you're all wreaking havoc on my TBR pile."LOL. Since I joined GR, my TBR list grew exponentially. It's getting out of hands, so I started making little notes to myself on paper instead, especially if the book I want to read is available from my local library. I don't want the online TBR list to grow indefinitely, do I? Even if the GR servers capacity would allow it.
Olga wrote: "Sophie wrote: "I appreciate all the help guys, but I gotta say, you're all wreaking havoc on my TBR pile."LOL. Since I joined GR, my TBR list grew exponentially. It's getting out of hands, so I s..."
I keep mine on my phone. It's never helpful. I have a problem, lol.
MrsJoseph wrote: "It's YA but I love The Blue Sword and The Hero and the Crown"These two and Beautywere three of the very first books I bought as replacements after the fire. They are also standard gifts for any horse-mad girls I know.
Ugh, I've ended up buying a book that was second in a series and there was NO indication, the characters just stared talking about stuff that confused the heck out of me. I was SO miffed.
MrsJoseph wrote: "I keep mine on my phone. It's never helpful. I have a problem, lol."As do I. So glad I have all you handy enablers to direct where my funds should be spent!
Back to the topic of series, how does everyone go about reviewing a series?
Do you do anything different than you would with a stand-alone?
I tend to treat each book as an individual in terms of experience and summarizing plot & events. I don't worry about spoilers for earlier books.
If it is a long-running series, I end up also looking at it in terms of character and plot development.
Sometimes, if it's a looong series, I end up playing around with my review, like I did with Sookie (http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...) or Stephanie Plum.
I agree with Carol. I also treat each book in a series as a stand-alone novel. In most cases it works very well.But if it's a longer series, sometimes my reviews are getting shorter with each installment. Especially if the series is united by the same characters and lasts for 10 or 15 books. By book 10, there seems not much left to talk about except the plot. The lead characters are usually all chewed up by that point.
I'm the same with long-running series. I will usually comment briefly on the plot and also whether I think this book is really good, average or not as good as the majority of the others in the series.With 3 to 5 books in a series, I generally treat each book as a separate 'stand alone' and comment on character development, etc.
Normally I write them the same way, since I'll review right after I've read a book. however, I recently wrote a 'retrospective' review of the Meredith Gentry series and I found it hard to focus on the plot of each book, and instead it ended up being an overview of how each book fit into the entire series. It had been such a long time since I read them and I couldn't remember much, so they were short, and like Olga said, as the series number got higher the reviews got shorter. Actually they all were not much different than Carol's Sookie Stackhouse review (which is awesome, by the way =] ) but not nearly as humorous. Mine were written in a 'fed up' state of mind.
Still, it was an interesting exercise.
Ha, thanks, Sophie. I find details disappear quickly--one reason I often write a short synopsis is that it contains major points that are salient for me, at least. And how to tell them apart--I'm almost done with the Matthew Scudder series, which is about 16 books, and I'd never keep the books straight if I didn't. Sometimes the GR synopsis doesn't have many details or has too many quotes.
What's wrong with waiting for a second book to be published? an example of the 'I want it now society' no patience.Do you stop watching a TV series because they stop halfway through a season for a summer break? I highly doubt it, so why do it for books?
Harrison wrote: "What's wrong with waiting for a second book to be published? an example of the 'I want it now society' no patience.Do you stop watching a TV series because they stop halfway through a season for ..."
I don't watch much TV now (as in morning news and weather is pretty much it) and never watched a great deal of it. Years ago used to follow some series, when it was continuing characters but each episode was a story in itself, with beginning, middle, end. There wasn't any 'loose ends' other than perhaps some of the interactions between the ongoing characters. When more and more of the series started going into what I think of as 'soap opera' tendencies, with the actual plotline continuing on for several episodes, I quit watching. I worked shift work and on rotation would end up missing one or two episodes and be lost.
As to reading a first book in a series and waiting for the second/third ... I used to do that. Unfortunately, many years ago, with one of the first trilogies I started, I read the first book, which could, in fact, be read as a stand alone. Ongoing possibilities but it did have an ending. Loved it. Second book was written 10 years later. Read it. Ending of the second was a 'sort of close' but the last chapter definitely led into the final book.
I'm still waiting for the third book, which on that schedule should have been published in the early 90s. The author died 5 years ago so I'm definitely not holding my breath on this one.
L.Y. wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "Has anybody noticed that if you're in a charity shop/used book store and you see a series you like, it's always book two for sale!"They want you to spend more money and buy book one..."
I think it's more sod's law or murphy's law to be honest. Book two of a trilogy is always a hard act, as you have to bridge between the intro and a climatic ending. It's not easy.
Harrison wrote: "What's wrong with waiting for a second book to be published? an example of the 'I want it now society' no patience.Do you stop watching a TV series because they stop halfway through a season for ..."
If a series ends for a break and doesn't come back for three years - yeah, I may have lost interest by then...
R.M.F wrote: "L.Y. wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "Has anybody noticed that if you're in a charity shop/used book store and you see a series you like, it's always book two for sale!"They want you to spend more money and..."
I think it's just an artifact of statistics. Lots of Book Ones will be sold/given to second-hand bookshops - more than Book Twos, because some people will try the first book and then not go on to the second. But that supply of Book Ones is met by a demand - lots of people see 'Book One' available cheaply, so pick it up, thinking it might be worth a try. Whereas Book Two will take ages to shift - most people won't pick up two books speculatively, and most people who were hooked by Book One won't spend ages waiting to find a cheap Book Two in a discount bin, they'll just go and buy it first-hand (or online). Some of the people who didn't like the first book will sell it back again, but many will just keep it on a dusty shelf, so they won't all re-enter the market.
So, at any given point in time, you're more likely to find a Book Two than a Book One - because although the supply of the latter into the second-hand book market will be higher, their velocity is also greater.
Wastrel wrote: "So, at any given point in time, you're more likely to find a Book Two than a Book One - because although the supply of the latter into the second-hand book market will be higher, their velocity is also greater."Feels like there should be a formula to go with that elegant statement.
For my part, I rarely find books #1-2 used. For older series that have most of their books released, I'll make an effort to buy used. I prefer to support our local book economy. But for newer series, I'll buy new to support the author - providing, of course that I have funds at the time to do so.
Harrison wrote: "Harrison Davies (harrisondavies) | 2 comments What's wrong with waiting for a second book to be published? an example of the 'I want it now society' no patience.Do you stop watching a TV series because they stop halfway through a season for a summer break? I highly doubt it, so why do it for books? "
I actually find this statement to be rather insulting.
You don't know us very well...so why make those assumptions.
Number one, I rarely watch TV. There are NO serial TV shows on the air that I follow. NONE. So the "TV show" argument goes down the drain.
So...what is the reason I should dunk my hard earned money into a series that I have no guarantee will ever be finished again??
Instead of this being a case of readers "having no patience," I feel this is a case of readers being fed up with being stuck holding the bag while yet another writer starts a doorstopper series without giving thought to their publishing schedule or their readers. Selfishness is what I call it. And greed.
Harrison wrote: "Do you stop watching a TV series because they stop halfway through a season for ..."In a word: yes. Or, I don't even start.
IMO, this is one of the reasons several tv shows have had trouble attracting an audience. We have no guarantee that if we DO watch a show, the ptb will keep it on long enough for the story to come to a conclusion. And, if you miss one you can't continue until it is replayed or you find some other way of watching it. I think this "serial" attitude is hurting both media.
It isn't about instant gratification - it is about completion. Too many of us have been left wondering too many times.
Sonja wrote: "Sonja (SnowNSew) | 28 comments Harrison wrote: "Do you stop watching a TV series because they stop halfway through a season for ..."In a word: yes. Or, I don't even start.
IMO, this is one of the reasons several tv shows have had trouble attracting an audience. We have no guarantee that if we DO watch a show, the ptb will keep it on long enough for the story to come to a conclusion. And, if you miss one you can't continue until it is replayed or you find some other way of watching it. I think this "serial" attitude is hurting both media.
It isn't about instant gratification - it is about completion. Too many of us have been left wondering too many times.
"
hear, hear!
True enough. I work PM shifts, and I'm just not committed enough to most shows to record them, with my major exception of The Walking Dead.
I was going to start watching Elementary...but I caught the tail end of an episode and didn't like the characterizations.
What annoys me most about the never-ending series, especially in fantasy, is that they seem to have pushed aside the once-and-done, solid, standalone fantasy novels from publishers' lists.Now everyone wants a cash cow they can milk indefinitely, it seems.
MrsJoseph wrote: "I was going to start watching Elementary...but I caught the tail end of an episode and didn't like the characterizations."I really like Elementary. I like the way they used the basics of the characterizations to tell a new story. My mom does not. At all. If for no other reason that she cannot get past the fact that Watson is female. She is also an English major, where as I am an engineer - our brains work differently. She probably also appreciates Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's world more than I do.
My family has recently had this conversation comparing these stories with Battlestar Galactica. My sons and I really enjoyed the original setting and really did not like the new one. My sister, however, never enjoyed the original and loved the new one.
In the last few years, many networks have tried to re-visit old, beloved series. IMO, their success hinges on how much they *get* what made the original show successful to begin with - and not the gimmick, but what makes it special. Some examples:
Knightrider: gimmick: a talking car
What made it fun: the thought that one man can make a difference.
New show: fancy schmancy car, team of spies. Missed the point - it wasn't the car.
Hawaii Five-O: Gimmick "book 'em, Danno", catchy theme song (ok, that is what it is to me - to others it might be different. :D)
What made it special: Team work.
New Show: Check and Check
Dallas: Gimmick and what made it special: Larry Hagman as JR.
New Show: Check and Check (though I simply cannot watch Bobby losing to JR for another generation.)
I do not usually see these relationships in books - maybe because I just don't want to.
TLDR: Sometimes I think our appreciation of a new re-telling is indirectly proportional to how much we enjoyed the old one.
I like Elementary, but I still have a hard time thinking of them as Holmes and Watson. I kind of think of them as different, but remotely similar people, who just happen to share names.
Colleen wrote: "I still have a hard time thinking of them as Holmes and Watson. I kind of think of them as different, but remotely similar people, who just happen to share names."^This
I was also an English Major. I can have a bit of an anal issue regarding texts since I study them. But still. *shrug* I think it has something to do with it.
Speaking of remakes: Narnia? *shudder* It makes me want to hurl. And sob.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Harrison wrote: "Harrison Davies (harrisondavies) | 2 comments What's wrong with waiting for a second book to be published? an example of the 'I want it now society' no patience.Do you stop watch..."
Actually I find that comment insulting...you lump all authors under that one comment and call us greedy.
Art takes time to create.
Enjoy a book for a book, not for a promise of things to come.
Robert wrote: "What annoys me most about the never-ending series, especially in fantasy, is that they seem to have pushed aside the once-and-done, solid, standalone fantasy novels from publishers' lists.Now eve..."
Again, lumping all authors under the same tarred brush. We are not all greedy, or hunting a cash cow. Some of us have a story to tell too big to fit in one book.
I'm 39 and don't plan to die suddenly, so you have my guarantee my series will be finished.
Harrison wrote: "I'm 39 and don't plan to die suddenly, so you have my guarantee my series will be finished."Unless you are in a car accident tomorrow?
What you see here are our impressions as READERS. If you would like to alienate a segment of the population that might be willing to READ the series that you may or may not actually ever finish, I think you are doing a good job.
I like Elementary. It's an original series with the unusual characters. Like the famous Conan Sir Arthur Doyle's detective, the hero of this series is extremely intellectual and solves murder mysteries by applying his high IQ. But the series shouldn't be considered a remake of Sherlock Holmes. The names' symmetry is incidental. There is no connection between the original Sherlock Holmes and the one in this series, and the same is true for Dr. Watson. What's even better, you can watch the series out of order. There is an overall story line but it is insignificant and doesn't impact the mysteries.
Harrison wrote: "Actually I find that comment insulting...you lump all authors under that one comment and call us greedy.Art takes time to create.
Enjoy a book for a book, not for a promise of things to come. "
Hmmm. Didn't look it up but I'm not surprised you're an author with *gasp* a multi-book series!
Now why am I not surprised that you are also someone who has not taken the time to visit the Introduction page but instead jump into insulting readers? Those same readers you want to cultivate?
You've made a bad few decisions here. And I'm still insulted by your previous comments.
Harrison wrote: "Enjoy a book for a book, not for a promise of things to come."Sorry to tell you this, but I enjoy my books for what's to come.
Harrison wrote: "Again, lumping all authors under the same tarred brush. We are not all greedy, or hunting a cash cow. Some of us have a story to tell too big to fit in one book.I'm 39 and don't plan to die suddenly, so you have my guarantee my series will be finished. "
Oh! You mean like you did here?
What's wrong with waiting for a second book to be published? an example of the 'I want it now society' no patience.
Great way to introduce yourself to a new group, Harrison. With your total of 4 comments.
Wastrel wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "L.Y. wrote: "R.M.F wrote: "Has anybody noticed that if you're in a charity shop/used book store and you see a series you like, it's always book two for sale!"They want you to spend ..."
Damn your logic, sir! :)
Still, I managed to buck the trend the other day. Anyway, I series could contain a hundred books and as long it was good, I doubt anybody would mind. But, most series tend to become bloated and meander badly by book 4.
Another author here and with a number of series in train. I don't personally think there's a magic number beyond which a series becomes dull: if you're writing a long saga as a series (common in fantasy) then it's possible to stretch an arc too far - David Eddings did, JK Rowling didn't (although she stretched some of the books too far); if you're writing a series of individual stories with the same characters (as in detective stories) there's a risk of repeating yourself, but if you can keep it fresh then there shouldn't be a hard and fast rule.
The main series I'm engaged on at present (i.e. the one where I've got one published) is planned around a sort of series of series, so each book has a self-contained story, but after the first three the plan is to make self-contained stories which also form into three book arcs. I have the broad plans for the arcs and the structures of the individual novels and I think I can avoid the traps.
It's not a case of trying to milk a successful idea - the first book hasn't even become successful yet - but I like working with the central characters. The ideal for me is to have the freedom to put out several books a year, some in series and some not. That way, I can depart from a canon if I think I'm risking getting repetitive, but return to it if I find fresh inspiration. Hopefully that will give the readers what they want too. After all, if I disappoint my audience they won't come back for more.
As a writer, I would say that write as many in the series as needed to complete the story. I am in the process of working on a series of books with my writing partner and this debate came up. We have decided three for this one and if necessary we can go to four.Now, as a reader, who has to finish a series even if I am not crazy about it, would like for there to be no more than 3 to 7 books. I am very impatient and it drives me nuts when something isn't finished.
Fantasy Aficionados
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I've been looking..."
I bought the first two books in the Bujold series for something like $1 each, hardback. But it was at a bookfair and a library sale.