readHERs discussion
Final Impressions and Wrap Up
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I'm sorry I was unable to attend the live chat last night. I'm sure there was some great discussions :) I thoroughly enjoyed reading the book and can't wait to see the movie. Look forward to our next book :)
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I haven't read a book for leisure probably since high school, so this was a great book to get back started. From start to finish I couldn't put this book down! Though it was from a time in history that I couldn't personally relate to, I felt for a moment that I was taken back into a time where my great-grandmother and grandmother lived. Though there's been a lot of negative backlash about the book, I think it's great to see stories of triumph in times of adversity, it make me more appreciative. We got a chance to get a small peak into the lives of the characters and understand what motivated them to stand up. I enjoyed it thoroughly and I kinda wish there was a sequel!!
4. Do you think that had Aibileen stayed working for Miss Elizabeth, that Mae Mobley would have grown up to be racist like her mother? Do you think racism is inherent, or taught?
Honestly, the optimist in me says that she wouldn't. I see a lot of characteristics in the relationship between Mae Mobley/Aibileen and Skeeter/Constantine. There's a lack of motherly affection in both relationships that caused a level of detachment for Skeeter that I think would happen with Mae Mobley. And the scene where Mae Mobley is playing the civil rights game and lies to her father about who taught her seems like forshadowing of who she would grow up to be. Racism is taught.
5. Do you think there are still vestiges of racism in relationships where people of color work for people who are white?
Again, the optimist in me wants to say no, but the realist in me says YES (in certain situations). Racism is about power and when there is a heirarchy that includes whites in leadership positions with people of color working for them, there is still an air of superiority in many cases. I find that many of my family and friends feel that they are offen typecast as the "black female/male" in their office or work enviornment and there's a level of disrespect that often comes with that label due to stereotypes.
6. What did you think about Minny’s pie for Miss Hilly? Would you have gone as far as Minny did for revenge?
Ohhhhh she went waaaaay too far. But it was GOOD TO ME!
7. What character do you wish had developed more in the book? Why?
I really want to know more about Hilly and how she grew up.
Here are some of my comments:2. What were your thought on the ending? Did feel satisfied or did you want an epilogue to know what happened in the end to each of the characters?
I didn't really like the way the book ended as I would have like to know what happened with each of the characters. So an epilogue would have been great. However, I feel like this was done on purpose by the author to make you decide for yourself on how things ended.
4. Do you think that had Aibileen stayed working for Miss Elizabeth, that Mae Mobley would have grown up to be racist like her mother? Do you think racism is inherent, or taught?
I agree with Shannon and that I would think that Mae Mobley wouldn't grow up racist. I say that because your values are often taught to you at an early age and that is what you stick with. With Aibileen being such a big part of Mae Mobley's early years, I would hope she would be more open and liberal as relates to racism. But considering how her parents are, you just never know.
7. What character do you wish had developed more in the book? Why?
I actually would have liked to read more about the relationship Miss Elizabeth, Hilly and Skeeter had. I feel like the author just gave you a brief synopsis of their relationship. It would have been great if there were some flashbacks from growing up together and being in college together. Was there relationship the same back then and just know Skeeter was more open and honest with them about her feelings on race?
Someone asked me how to the book left me feeling at the end, I said with disappointment and hope. I was sad that Aib had to leave her job but it would not have been very realistic if no one suffered consequences as a result of the book. I was hopeful because Aib had a positive spirit and quickly learned that her age was not a detriment to her trying something new. The book would not have been the same written in third person. The first person (with thoughts and dialect...) brought the book to life in a whole 'nother light. I felt I was there....
I think it's quite possible for someone to exist like Hilly-- great mother with other flaws. Hilly doesn't have to 'put on' for her children, unlike what she has to do for the rest of Jackson...she can be herself This may be one reason why she's such a great mother and but a sort of terrible person otherwise.
My aunt has taken care of white children for most of her adult years. She still goes to the house of one family once or twice a week, though the children are now all off at college or have finished college. She certainly sees a color line but is also pretty much seen as part of the family. I will ask her more about this this week and report back to y'all! On a side note, I definitely laughed when Aib/Minnie said that white people like to spank their own children. My aunt was never a believer in that. Her rule, day 1, was that "I whoop children." She ALWAYS said that to the family and if they didn't like it, then she would move on lolol.
I’m answering way late, but since the second book hasn’t been chosen, I guess there’s still time! I recently saw the movie but read The Help about a year ago. Great questions – I’ll answer as many as I can.1. I sometimes find it hard to get into a book when the first person narrative isn’t done just right – if the narrator’s voice is jarring for any reason, it really turns me away from what might otherwise be a great story. In this case, I enjoyed the first-person narrative, and felt that it was a major part of what pulled me into the novel so quickly.
On the other hand, I think that had the book been written in the third person, I would have ‘expected’ more, if that makes sense. I imagine that we’ve all read and heard so much about the events that preceded and coincided with the Civil Rights Movement that we look for and expect certain elements to be included in a novel set during that time period. Not that I think Kathryn didn’t do her research, but I sort of feel that by keeping the first person narrative, she could focus more on this specific story (one that I know she’s said is very personal to her own life) without bogging the story down with a history lesson that may or may not have come off poorly.
And yes, I know there are a ton of critics out there who think she could and should have done more to give the reader a sense of the enormous risk the characters were undertaking rather than sugarcoating a really ugly part of American history. But in the moment, while reading the book, I didn’t think about any of that. I was completely captivated by the story, and didn’t consider this aspect until later, while reading articles from said critics (some of whom I feel may have had a bone to pick with a white author telling the fictional story of black maids before even reading the first page of the book). I can honestly say I’m glad I didn’t read any reviews before finishing The Help that would have influenced my own feelings about the story. Even though I was very surprised to read the Epilogue at the end and learn that the author was a white woman, I walked away from the book thinking it was a great story.
2. I was very unhappy with how abrupt the ending was! I recently read something that suggested that since Kathryn included so many other details in the rest of the book, the way the book ended must have been an editor’s decision, and that sounds like a good theory to me.
3. Good question! I read the book so long ago that my only impression of Hilly right now is what I remember from the movie. I can’t remember any major specifics that made her a good mother from the book (and I don’t remember the movie going into anything specific about her relationship with her kids). But to your question, I do think it’s definitely possible to be a good mom and also be a deeply flawed person.
I’m trying to think about what makes a good mom good, and I think what it boils down to is loving your kids and doing the best you can to raise them ‘right,’ and that last part is what is subject to a LOT of interpretation. What’s obviously wrong for me (in Hilly’s case being a hateful, racist person) might be obviously right from Hilly’s own perspective (something that I try to remember when I’m having, hearing, watching a political debate).
When I try to take the emotion out of thinking about fictional Hilly and the real-life people just like her (or far worse), I remember that they are a product of the times and circumstances in which they live, as well as a product of the times in which their parents were raised/lived, and so on – I think that is what motivates everyone to do what they do, including myself. I’m not saying that this is an excuse in every case, but since we can’t change history, we have to learn from it. I’m sure people like that honestly and truly feel that what they’re doing is the right thing, even when they were behaving in ways that are abhorrent to others. So even though it’s hard to give someone the compliment of being a ‘good’ mom when they are a truly distasteful person, I think it’s definitely possible to embody both characteristics (good mom who loves and does her best for her children but is otherwise a “bad” person, at least from the perspective of other people) at the same time!
4. I recently read “Nutureshock,” by Po Bronson (great book, by the way), and there is an entire chapter that talks about race and children, and I know reading that chapter is going to influence how I answer this question.
I think the thought process that leads to racism is inherent. Not in the sense that kids come out of the womb wanting to harm people who aren’t like them, but in the sense that it is a basic human instinct to sort people into groups and to seek out relationships with people who are like you. If that instinct goes unchecked (meaning that children aren’t *explicitly* taught by their parents or primary caregivers that such divisions are arbitrary and that people who differ from them in obvious ways (skin color, sex, language, etc.) and not so obvious ways (religion, gender, political beliefs lol) are at their very core not that different from them), things like racism will most likely be the result.
In the case of Mae Mobley, I don’t want to think that she would grow up to be racist like her mother, especially given that Aibileen was her primary caretaker during her formative years. But there were a ton of white families in the South, both during and after slavery (and to this day), with black women taking care of their children (including nursing them soon after birth), and I don’t know that it made that much difference – what are the chances of Mae Mobley turning out different, especially given that she won’t have a ton of memories of Aibileen given that Aibileen was fired when she was three or four? (Although you could find hope in Mae Mobley being born right before the Civil Rights movement was starting to really kick off, so maybe the change in society will help her chances).
If kids aren’t taught to think one thing (that all people are equal) then they are going to go by what they see directly in front of them, and for a white little girl living back then in the South with a black maid, what she saw was that white people had the power and were in charge, which means it is very likely that she will grow up thinking that there is something about white people and black people that puts one group in charge and one group taking orders, and that idea could grow into the thinking that being white must be somehow better than being black.
5. My gut says yes, definitely, but my head wants to say that it depends on the type of job. There is so much about racism/prejudice (and all the other ism’s) that happens in the subconscious, that I think it is very hard to escape in situations where whites are in a position of power of people of color. I think that given the history of race in America, it’s not hard to find vestiges of race in almost anything if that’s what you’re looking for, but I like to think of that as a motivating factor that we can all do better than as an indication that the situation is hopeless.
6. High-larious. But I don’t think I could ever, ever do anything like that.
7. I can’t remember the specifics of the book well enough to answer this question, but I agree thta getting some more from Hilly’s perspective would have been nice.
On Thursday, August 11 at 7pm, we will have a LIVE chatroom discussion. Please check the forum board right before 7pm and I will post the live link. I hope you guys can join in a discuss, especially those who haven't been able to post on the board.
Here are a few discussion questions for the forum, feel free to answer any or all of them and let us know what you thought about the book.
1. How do you think the novel would have been different if it was told by a third person omniscient narrator? Which do you think is more effective for this novel? Which character’s narration did you prefer? Why?
2. What were your thought on the ending? Did feel satisfied or did you want an epilogue to know what happened in the end to each of the characters?
3. What do you think motivated Hilly? On the one hand she is terribly cruel to Aibileen and her own help, as well as to Skeeter once she realizes that she can’t control her. Yet she’s a wonderful mother. Do you think that one can be a good mother but, at the same time, a deeply flawed person?
4. Do you think that had Aibileen stayed working for Miss Elizabeth, that Mae Mobley would have grown up to be racist like her mother? Do you think racism is inherent, or taught?
5. Do you think there are still vestiges of racism in relationships where people of color work for people who are white?
6. What did you think about Minny’s pie for Miss Hilly? Would you have gone as far as Minny did for revenge?
7. What character do you wish had developed more in the book? Why?