Book Nook Cafe discussion
What did you read last month?
>
What I read in July 2011
I think most, if not all, memoirs are pretty exaggerated. I once went to a reading of a popular (at the time) memoir in the days before everyone was writing one. The author told us she wrote an article for her alumni magazine and a publisher contacted her and asked her to come to see him about writing a book. When she was in the meeting with he and his staff, he told her they wanted to publish a memoir of her first 14 years, when she lived on a poor tropical island and before she came to the US. She told him she could only remember small things about her early life, maybe a gift or a visit from a relative or an injury. He told her to just make the rest up, that all the memoirists they published did that. Needless to say, this colored my impression of memoirs. I have never trusted them since.
And I am too much of a stickler/former English teacher/former editor to think that quotation marks should be used for anything other than an exact quote. I rue the day that colleges established a major called "creative non-fiction. What an oxymoron that is!
Last winter, my daughter went to hear Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, author of one of my favorite books, Half of a Yellow Sun. She came to Hopkins to speak to the students in the same master's program she had been in there. (My daughter was in that program).Her books contain a lot of autobiographical information taken from her life in Africa. One of the students at the talk asked her why she did not just write a memoir. She said it was because she would write too many lies. I loved her honesty!
JoAnn, i respectfully disagree. Because we lived in that house for another decade, i could describe it, the tree, the way that very yard changed over the years. The weather could be determined with some research. Would the chapter be solely about that moment? Nope. But could a chapter, based on that moment, be written. Absolutely. But to address something i know has been hashed & rehashed with this group, i'll add the usual comment. With my very first "adult" biography, Madame Sarah by Cornelia Otis Skinner, about actress Sarah Bernhardt, i learned that autobiographies were to be taken with a grain of salt. They give us a frame of reference for what the individual wanted the world to see, even if it was made from whole cloth.
Perhaps i was lucky that this was my introduction to the world of autobiographies (i'm not even sure i was aware they existed because it was a year before our high school class had to read Benj. Franklin's). And i definitely hold memoirs to a different standard, as they are, as i understand them (& i'm far from an expert, as they are not a favorite genre for me), not an overview of a life but one's experience with either a particular time in a life or their connection with one aspect.
I guess i am unclear about "creative nonfiction", so had never bothered to look deeper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative... states that it is factual but written with the styles and techniques of fiction. Is this what you mean, JoAnn? If so, i'm wondering what problems you see with it. Here is a sort of chart which simplifies the Wiki article, for those who want a quicker bit of info-- http://www.class.uidaho.edu/druker/no...
This link offers a list of 100 "major works" of creative nonfiction. http://grammar.about.com/od/60essays/... . I have always taken it to mean that the subject is made easier to read when creatively written. When i compare & contrast books on nonfiction topics which were written in the '60s & 70s with many written today, i find today's easier to read. They never seem "made up" but only full of material presented in a way the reader finds smoother to read.
(And i must note that i might not have included many on their list, as i thought it was a new genre. Most likely the industry is reexamining books in light of literary developments. For me an example might be Undaunted Courage by Stephen E. Ambrose.)
There could be a great debate about that, naturally. I might have thought this was a sort of result of society's shortened attention span. Whether this is true or not, i don't know. However, given the dry nature of some science and history books i've read from the early 70s onward, i must say i get more out of today's because they attempt to relate the material to me in ways i'll understand. There are other benefits but this is the one i will latch onto here.
deb
Madrano wrote: "JoAnn, i respectfully disagree. Because we lived in that house for another decade, i could describe it, the tree, the way that very yard changed over the years. The weather could be determined with..."Your living in that house for another decade would certainly allow you to write a chapter. But I seriously doubt that you could write dialogue using in exact words about what happened that one day/moment.
I hold memoirs to standards of absolute truthfulness. But I seem to be alone in that.
Madrano wrote: "Elaine, i have a friend who reported exactly the same. Her reason & the reading result mirror your experience. On the flip side, her family & friends benefited when we received some fabulous books from her since her budget could stretch further...."
I did buy some awesome gifts!!
I love memoirs, and I hold them to standards of truthfulness in as far as the author is capable of doing so. Memories of childhood are often inaccurate, but I'm okay with them as long as they are what the author remembers and thinks is accurate. As far as quotes, no, they are probably not often accurate, but I take them as what the author thinks was said.I expect more accuracy when an author is writing about his or her adult life.
As for creative non-fiction, I hadn't heard the term until relatively recently, but apparently I've been reading it for decades, based on the list. To me, creative non-fiction becomes a problem only when the non-fiction becomes fiction. I want the story based on facts.
Re: A Million Little Pieces, the author knew that his book was not truthful when it was being published as fact. That is completely unacceptable. I don't know the story or the circumstances of Stolen Lives: Twenty Years in a Desert Jail.
JoAnn/QuAppelle wrote: "Madrano wrote: "I remember being in my own backyard when my parents just purchased their first home. Clearly i can tell you where i stood (it was an odd piece of electricity gauging) and my exact w..."I think though there is more to it. My uncle has memories of a house he never lived in. He is the youngest of ten kids. I think with traumatic events and crazy families stories are retold so much they become memories and some of these "memories" become real. My family has alot of memeories of the trauma that they experienced being a poor family of 10 etc...and they could write a book with quotes and no two books would be the same. But I am sure each would say it happened the way they wrote it. Is it that they are lying? I have no idea, I mean really I can't quote a conversation I had yesterday. So ho could anyone quote a conversation from childhood. I have less of a problem with Jeannette's story. Even if it is embellished, I have a feeling that is how she remembered it.
Madrano wrote: "I guess i am unclear about "creative nonfiction", so had never bothered to look deeper .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative... states that it is factual but written with the styles and techniques of fiction. Is this what you mean, JoAnn? If so, i'm wondering what problems you see with it. Here is a sort of chart which simplifies the Wiki article, for those who want a quicker bit of info--http://www.class.uidaho.edu/druker/no... ."
Yes, I have seen these explanations and others as well...and they all say the same thing about truthfulness : Never invent or change facts or events
In my (narrow) mind, making up a quotation and putting it in quotation marks is inventing. I could say, describing my trip to the hospital at age 3, --- I said "mommy, I am scared." Although that is likely to be true, I do not know it for sure. So I would have invented it.
Having been a teacher of both creative writing and of factual (non-fiction) writing, I just happen to believe that a piece of writing is either one or the other.
I think part of my problem is with the terminology itself. Perhaps it should be called "literary non-fiction"....because a writer does not create/make up non-fiction. S/he relates it.
RE:creative nonfiction & memoirs.I guess we will have to agree to disagree. For those that love the genre they will continue to read and enjoy it, for those that don't they will read some other genre and enjoy that.
Thanks for the 100 list Deb. There are sure some good reads on that list. If this is what is know as creative nonfiction I guess I am a big fan.
I think I will print out the list for my TBR. Thanks!
Here are just a few I've read and enjoyed:
# Bill Bryson, Notes From a Small Island (1995)
I read and enjoyed a lot of Bryson. I think this book was my first intro to him.
# Barbara Ehrenreich, Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America (2001)
I has some issues with what I felt was the authors condescending attitude, but overall I think she makes some terrific points. It's a book that will make you think and may even change your mind.
# Alex Haley, The Autobiography of Malcolm X (1965)
Simply one of the best books ever. I love how you can see the arc of Malcolm's life.
# David McCullough, Truman (1992)
I've seen the movie and it's terrific. I also own the book and hope to read it this year.
John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley (1962)
Loved this book. A small gem.
Studs Terkel, Hard Times: An Oral History of the Great Depression (1970)
I own it but haven't' read it yet
Richard Wright, Black Boy (1945)
Very good. Though I liked Native son more.
* I've posted the 100 list to our
- New Book Releases & Book Lists -Folder-
Thread- Book Lists
for future reference.
Have you read other McCullough books, Alias? If so, what is the difference between TRUMAN and his others (that Truman would be classified as creative non-fiction)?Mind you, I do not say that I dislike all books that are creative non-fiction - mostly just memoirs. Some of those above classified as creative non-fiction ---like Black Boy and Travels with Charlie---- were written long before that silly term was made up.
JoAnnHave you read other McCullough books, Alias? If so, what is the difference between TRUMAN and his others (that Truman would be classified as creative non-fiction)?
------------------
Nope. I've never read a David McCulloughbook. I have the Truman one on my TBR. And I just ordered Mornings on Horseback from Amazon.
I did see the movie and enjoyed it a lot. The movie of course had dialog. So I guess that is made up. Since Truman and others weren't recorded all the time. aside from press conferences and such. I assume the book has dialog, too.
I am happy to say I had never heard of the term "creative non-fiction." Seems like a silly designation. Perhaps someone should have spent more time to come up with something that designates non-fiction that doesn't turn into deadly dull.I've read a few David McCullough books. Is Truman the only one that has that designation? I never thought that much about dialogue. And I am not big on reading memoirs in general, mostly because they tend to be self-serving, of course.
Alias Reader wrote: "RE:creative nonfiction & memoirs.I guess we will have to agree to disagree. For those that love the genre they will continue to read and enjoy it, for those that don't they will read some other..."
There ya go! I think it's the term which is new. Indeed, before locating the list i shared i found a website ( http://www.creativenonfiction.org/the... ) which claimed it began in the '70s (at least for that person). As JoAnn suggested, i'd prefer a different term, as it seems to imply something else but maybe it's our use of the term "creative" which is too restricted? I'm not sure.
Since Alias posted the 100 list on another thread i will add a comment there about Steinbeck. As for the others, i kinda wondered the same thing. If McCullough's John Adams doesn't fit, why not? I think it was such a good seller because it fit the category perfectly. Same with Nora Ephron whose Scribble, Scribble is a superb book about journalism. Crazy Salad: Some Things About Women, which is on the list was good and popular but i couldn't tell you much about it, as opposed to things she wrote in the former.
deborah
Bobbie57 wrote: "I am happy to say I had never heard of the term "creative non-fiction." Seems like a silly designation.."AMEN! Ridiculous terminology
July 2011The Unseen by Alexandra Sokoloff. 2 1/2 stars. Horror/Mystery. Predictable paranormal tale but I loved the writing. Will read more of this author.
Inkheart by Cornelia Funke. 4 stars. Fantasy. Teen. Characters from a darkish novel come to life. Very enjoyable.
The Devil All the Time by Donald Ray Pollock. 4 stars. Dark Fiction. Horror/Mystery/Really Gross. My favorite line from the book describes it best: “Maggots dripped from the trees and crosses like squirming drops of white fat.”
The Reapers Are the Angels by Alden Bell. 5 stars. Zombies. More than a zombie book. Highly recommend.
Dog Boy by Eva Hornung. 5 stars. Fiction. Loosly based on a true story about a four-year-old boy raised by a pack of dogs in Moscow. Original.
Darkness by John Saul. 3 stars. Horror/Thriller. Not great but a good book to read on the airplane and leave behind for the next passenger.
God Says No by James Hannaham. 4 stars. LGBT. Funny, sad story about a gay man trying to figure out if he is “a for-real homosexual” or “a straight fellow with some problems.”
Haunted by Chuck Palahniuk. 3 Stars. Horror/Gagalicious. This author is famous among horror lovers. This was my first book by him and, yes, some of the stories were good. But he's really out there. Not for senstive souls.
Thanks for sharing, Maicie. It looks like you had quite a nice reading month.
Here's what I read in July! I'm trying to play catch while I still have some free time. I keep track of pages for the 1 million pages in a lifetime, and I just copied and pasted July's books here, so please forgive the unnecessary information.1. Dracula by Bram Stoker -- 433 pages//4 stars
2. The Hundred Secret Senses by Amy Tan -- 416 pages//3 stars
3. The Art of War by Sun Tzu -- 171 pages//4 stars
4. Black Girl/White Girl by Joyce Carol Oates -- 272 pages//5 stars
5. Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder -- 507 pages//5 stars
6. The Iliad by Homer -- 1,652 pages//4 stars
7. The Book of Disquiet by Fernando Pessoa -- 304 pages//5 stars
8. The Odyssey by Homer -- 1,226 pages//4 stars
9. Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu -- 176 pages//5 stars
July total: 9 books/5,157 pages
Susan wrote: "Re: A Million Little Pieces, the author knew that his book was not truthful when it was being published as fact. That is completely unacceptable. I don't know the story or the circ..."What's really sad is the subject matter was right on. The author could have written a superb fiction book or a memoir that incorporated examples from other people. Greed and fame, I imagine, was a motivating factor.
James Frey said in an interview that his publisher (or publicist? One of those p- words) wanted to market it as nonfiction while Frey originally wanted to market it as fiction. But even if that is true, I don't understand why he would agree to it. I have to admit that I haven't read the book, was put off by the controversy.
Impressive list, Jen! Especially The Iliad and The Odyssey in one month.
Susan wrote: "Impressive list, Jen! Especially The Iliad and The Odyssey in one month."Thank you! It was a challenge, but I'm determined to catch up on my reading this summer. I'm still 20 books behind schedule...
Jen wrote: "Here's what I read in July! I'm trying to play catch while I still have some free time. I keep track of pages for the 1 million pages in a lifetime, and I just copied and pasted July's books here, ..."~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks for sharing your July reads with us, Jen.
Gosh, you sure had some impressive reads in July.
I was thrilled to see gave this book 5 stars. Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder -- 507 pages//5 stars.
I own it and I just mentioned it on the boards a few days ago. I'm glad to see you think it is a winner.
Jen wrote: "Here's what I read in July! I'm trying to play catch while I still have some free time. I keep track of pages for the 1 million pages in a lifetime, and I just copied and pasted July's books here, ..."Love the million pages in a lifetime goal. HOw many are you up to so far? Great reading list for this month
Alias Reader wrote: "Thanks for sharing your July reads with us, Jen..."You're welcome!
& Thank you. I'm taking full advantage of my free time lately before my college fall courses start up.
I'm glad you enjoyed that book too! I wasn't sure I would like it, but I was clearly mistaken. I'm a little dubious in recommending it to people because you'd have to be interested in history and philosophy to fully enjoy it, I think.
------------
Stephanie wrote: "Love the million pages in a lifetime goal. HOw many are you up to so far? Great reading list for this month"
Me too! I'm really enjoying keeping track of all these stats. Its interesting to me to be able to see how much I've read in pages. I just started last year but right now I'm at:
-2011 total: 15,837 pages
-Total: 25,629 pages
This isn't including August 2011, because I make up the stats and comment after the month is over so I can get an accurate count without having to recalculate.
I don't know how accurate it is but GoodReads keeps track of pages read for the year.To view your stats go to:
The top of the page
Use the chevron ( arrow pointing down is the chevron) to view the pull down menu under MY BOOKS
Click on Stats
Jen wrote: "I'm really enjoying keeping track of all these stats..."This is ambitious I would like to see where I end up
Wow! That's definitely a multi-year project. I think it's really cool to be able to keep track, though. At the rate I'm going, I think I could do it in about...20 years. But less if I add what I've already read. :)
Maicie wrote: "Haunted by Chuck Palahniuk. 3 Stars. Horror/Gagalicious. This author is famous among horror lovers. This was my first book by him and, yes, some of the stories were good. But he's really out there. Not for senstive souls. ..."What an introduction to Palahniuk, Maicie! It was the last of his i read, so disturbing was one story (i'm sure you know the one i mean). However, prior to that i loved the way he stretch my imagination, as well as shared his. I'd be hard pressed to name my favorite, as i read Fight Club last (well, last in a string, then, months later came Haunted). He has one i consider somewhat similar to FC so, having read it first, i found FC a bit familiar.
deb
Jen wrote: "7. The Book of Disquiet by Fernando Pessoa -- 304 pages//5 stars ..."Jen, what a list! To read The Odyssey and The Iliad in one month. Wonderful.
I wasn't aware of the Pessoa book. His poetry is what first drew me to him. Well, actually, that he wrote as a hetronym ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterony... ), meaning in different personalities, a wee bit different from nom de plume.
ANYway, in an online poetry book group we discussed a poem by one of the other names, at which point we learned that he was Pessoa! From then i've been fascinated but didn't realize material from his trunk had been published. Thank you for that title!
deb
Alias Reader wrote: "I don't know how accurate it is but GoodReads keeps track of pages read for the year.To view your stats go to:
The top of the page
Use the chevron ( arrow pointing down is the chevron) to view t..."
Thanks for the 'stats' think. Never noticed that before.
Madrano wrote: so disturbing was one story (i'm sure you know the one i mean).I haven't been in a swimming pool since.
LOL--i have but not with that kind of system!deborah
Alias Reader wrote: "I don't know how accurate it is but GoodReads keeps track of pages read for the year.To view your stats go to:
The top of the page
Use the chevron ( arrow pointing down is the chevron) to view t..."
~
It isn't very accurate. At least not for me. For example, I might re-read a book. Or I can't find the right edition, so I'll select the closet edition possible and then just use my page count in my stats. Also, the Goodreads stats doesn't have the option to view it broken down by month, either. Unless there is, I just don't know how to do it?
--------
Madrano wrote: "Jen wrote: "7. The Book of Disquiet by Fernando Pessoa -- 304 pages//5 stars ..."
Jen, what a list! To read The Odyssey and The Iliad in one month. Wonderful.
I wasn't aware of the Pessoa book. ..."
~
That's what I find so interesting about his writings. This book, The Book of Disquiet was actually written under the heteronym, Bernardo Soares. I wrote a 10+ page paper on Pessoa's connect to his heteronyms. Its actually really fascinating once you compare certain pieces of his poetry.
Maree wrote: "Wow! That's definitely a multi-year project. I think it's really cool to be able to keep track, though. At the rate I'm going, I think I could do it in about...20 years. But less if I add what ..."One of the rules is that you start counting the year you join. So I joined the group at the end of 2010, so I was allowed to count all that I read in 2010, but no earlier. I honestly wouldn't want to sit around and try and count all the pages I've read since...ever, so I'm kind of glad for that rule :)
Jen wrote: "Bernardo Soares. I wrote a 10+ page paper on Pessoa's connect to his heteronyms. Its actually really fascinating once you compare certain pieces of his poetry. ..."Exactly! They are barely comparable! After reading & discussing a poem by one of the heternyms, we read something he wrote under his own name. Then i continued on. Of course, reading in translation, i suspect i missed much. Still, it is amazing what he accomplished.
deb
Jen wrote: "One of the rules is that you start counting the year you join."Lol, where does this rule come from?
Maree wrote: "Jen wrote: "One of the rules is that you start counting the year you join."Lol, where does this rule come from?"
~
Actually, I think they recently changed it. I don't see the discussion for the old rules at all. Oh well. Too much of a hassle to go through my 300 "read" books and total everything up. Maybe one day when I have nothing to do.
Madrano wrote: "Exactly! They are barely comparable! After reading & discussing a poem by one of the heternyms, we read something he wrote under his own name. Then i continued on. Of course, reading in translation, i suspect i missed much. Still, it is amazing what he accomplished."~
He is amazing. And I agree about the translation thing. I hope to learn Portuguese one day and read it all again. Same thing with some other amazing books + their native language.
Good luck with that project, Jen. There are several books i'd like to read in the original language but realize i won't take the time to learn it first. I suppose this is one reason i like book editions which offer the original language text on the verso side with the translation opposite, on the recto. Sometimes this helps me read and sometimes i can figure out meanings, if i have any grasp of the language at all.deb
Here is my list for July:Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America's Class War - excellent examination of why the poor vote against their own self interests - ****
Talking to Girls About Duran Duran: One Young Man's Quest for True Love and a Cooler Haircut -essays about eighties music, didn't hold my interest - **
American Gods - fantasy about gods in everyday life - ****
Muscle Memory - fine selection from the Bizarro group - ****
Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children - young adult fantasy about some pretty strange children - ****
Case Histories - a detective tries to solve some very cold cases - *****
Johnny Got His Gun - anti war classic, should be required reading - *****
Spooky Little Girl - disappointing - the author should stick to her hilarious comic essays - ***
State of Wonder - an exciting trip down the Amazon, very thought provoking - *****
Great Expectations - wanted to like this, but I didn't - **
Melki, PBS is making a three-part series based on the book you just read: Case Histories. Here is what I read:"PBS adds a new detective to the lineup for three weeks starting Oct. 16.
“Case Histories,” based on the book by Kate Atkinson, will feature a modern detective named Jackson Brodie, played by Jason Isaacs . As in “Zen,” Ms. Eaton said, the character is a younger man “with sex appeal,” and the setting,
Edinburgh, “provides tremendous geographic flavor.”
Case Histories sounds good, PBS show or not. Thanks for the title, Melki.deb
Melki wrote: "Here is my list for July:Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America's Class War - excellent examination of why the poor vote against their own self
-----------------------------
Thanks for sharing your July reads with us, Melki.
I'm putting Deer Hunting on my TBR list. Thank you.
I did not know Case Histories was being filmed for TV. That's great! It should make an excellent series. I'm writing it on my calendar!
Hi I am new to the group and recently read THE HELP in July and currently went to the movie and feel it was a good interpretation of the book although some areas must be down played because of time limits on movie. IT WAS EXCEPTIONAL.
Welcome, Lindy ! I hope you visit and post often.
Welcome to the Book Nook Cafe boards, Lindy. I'm looking forward to seeing the movie, too.deb
Susan wrote: "James Frey said in an interview that his publisher (or publicist? One of those p- words) wanted to market it as nonfiction while Frey originally wanted to market it as fiction. But e..."I read it a long time ago. Before the Oprah mess. I could definately see some positives to it, but I could also see some things that I didnt think poosible, but am glad I read it. If I had read it after all the discussions, I probably would not have read it. I also read the follow up book that he published.
Book Nook Cafe
Books mentioned in this topic
Case Histories (other topics)Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America's Class War (other topics)
Case Histories (other topics)
Johnny Got His Gun (other topics)
Great Expectations (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
James Frey (other topics)James Frey (other topics)
James Frey (other topics)
Eva Hornung (other topics)
Alexandra Sokoloff (other topics)
More...
I tend to take the experience as a whole, and not dissect the parts too much. I also like dialog in the books I read, so I don't mind if the quote is not exact, but still conveys what was said.
However, that doesn't mean I'll believe anything.
Two books that quickly come to mind that turned me off completely because the general premise of the book I felt was a lie or greatly exaggerated.
They are both Oprah books.
A Million Little Pieces~James Frey
Stolen Lives: Twenty Years in a Desert Jail~Malika Oufkir