Twilight
discussion
Can TWILIGHT get ANY MORE SICKER?
You write a book then. And you build up a major fanbase, and have a huge movie franchise stem off that book/series. It's not the best series ever, no, but it's not awful.It's obviously good enough to get attention, like this pointless topic.
@ Colby. I didnt mean to offend you. But the thing is...just because a book has many fans, and its got a movie to it doesnt mean its GOOD! Indeed when you read it for the first time, the book gets you in, and i never doubt that part...but the point is...what THEN? I mean, once you are into it, you just go on reading, with it or without doesnt matter...in the end, when you look back at the book, I feel...WHAT WAS IT?
I have read LIKE HUNDREDS of books, and a lot in the genre of TWILIGHT too...but the fact is...the success of twilight is mainly beacause of three things:
1. Great Publicity Campaign
2. Guys and Girls trying to please themselves...in short...EMOS/GOTHS/Girls who are toooo girlie.
3. MOVIE.
You read many books that become movies, but that doesnt mean the book is good. Obviously this is a big world...and if you publish a book, people are going to read it for sure. But liking or not liking cannot be judged on the basis of readership, nor can its quality.
1. Posting your opinions once is fine. But posting them again and again is just a way to get attention.2. LAY OFF THE ALL CAPS!! There is no need to yell!
3. If you hate the book so much, why did you give it 3 stars? That is a pretty good rating.
Let me lay the bare facts.
100 Reasons Twilight Sucks.1-It is too copied off Jane Austen’s books. I hate that. Although JA also sucks...
2-The actors at the movies SUCK. Why can’t people get that when they’re nominated twice at the Razzies?
3-Bella is strange. She has no sense of sarcasm, which makes the book duller, and her sense of humor is that of an ape.
4-The cover of the 4th book is kind of “discriminating” to humans. When Bella stops being the red “pawn” and becomes a white “queen” it makes it clear humans suck.
5-Twilight fans are all for dying for true love.
6-It encourages getting obsessed with your boyfriend, early marriage for no good reason, and suicide for true love.
7-It is so cliché.
8-Stephanie Meyer sounds like a Buffy the Vampire Slayer teenage fan who writes her first fan fiction.
9-Jacob is so stupid, and all of his stupid little girly gang. Why does it have to be a pack? Just go on your own, freaks. Throw yourselves off the cliff and never come back.
10-Why would Bella try throwing herself off the cliff out of pure boredom? If you’re bored, Bella, smack your head against the wall.
11-Why the heck would you get depressed over a dork leaving town? Oh, that’s right...
12-Bella has no self-worth. She relies on someone for having it.
13-Jasper is emo. There’s no question about that.
14-Why would Emmet get mauled by a bear? He should’ve been responsible.
15-Carlisle should let them die. Death is better than killing others for your survival.
16-They are straight out of the madhouse.
17-Twilight should belong in an unknown fanfic page or SM’s personal blog where it cannot stain the good names of literature.
18-I hate how they compare the best literary examples such as Shakespeare and Emily Bronte to that piece of junk.
19-Rosalie should’ve known to run and call the police if her fiancée was drunk with a bunch of threatening looking strangers.
20-If Alice saw the future when she was human, she should’ve lived with it and let it go unknown rather than get sent to the nutcase house.
21-Esme shouldn’t have tried to kill herself. For heaven’s sake, he’s in Heaven, and she can have more children! Or at least visit a shrink. Jeez.
22-Bella literally kisses the ground Edward walks on. But he’s a person just like anyone else!
23-Bella should lock herself in a rubber room. Those hallucinations aren’t magic Bella...they’re your own emo brain.
24-Edward should’ve followed Carlisle instead of throwing himself at others, yes, even murderers.
25-SM has terrible taste in music.
26-Vampire life should at least have a price. Living life with nothing that can kill you seems terrible.
27-Edward is a stalker. How can he watch her sleep and enjoy it?
28-Bella’s plain. No boys like plain.
29-I understand Jessica has a point. Bella became way too involved with Edward.
30-How can Mike fall in love with the new, plain, albino freak who only talks to people when she needs it?
31-There is no high-school drama at Bella’s school, but SM makes it sound like it.
32-Jacob is overly childish and creepy.
33-Victoria too.
34-James too.
35-Laurent too.
36-Everyone in the book.
37-I think the books were overpriced.
38-Why would vampires sparkle? If SM’s intention had been to match hunter with prey, then it was an enormous fail.
39-The Volturi are weirdos.
40-In New Moon Bella says “he sucked the poison out. Like with a rattlesnake.” And that’s NOT safe, good for either, or recommended.
41-I love Vampires Suck.
42-SM doesn’t deserve to be an author.
43-Thank to novels like that, people that don’t like to read think all novels are like that. CRETINS.
44-She gave bad publicity for the beautiful country of Italy.
45-She encourages grand theft auto.
46-Why does Edward have to be rich? Why not poor to twist it up?
47-Carlisle says he has respect for HUMAN life, although he contradicts himself by turning the freaky teens into vamps.
48-If Bella screams in her sleep, Charlie, force her into a sleep clinic.
49-Why would Bella hide in the mountains while a war raged downstairs? Run away to San Diego.
50-I’m sick of superfast and super strong heroes.
51-Bella’s a
52-Leah is obsessed with Sam. Again, just like Bella.
53-How can Seth live with that sister?
54-Sam should throw himself off a cliff into sharp rocks, not the sea.
55-Bella’s jokes are lame.
56-Edward’s not only incredibly pessimistic (which most girls hate in boys) but utterly dramatic (which is only acceptable in girls.)
57-Reneésme is a horrible name. Girls are going to think she’s like Stargirl. No, Stargirl’s much better that her.
58-Anyone can be a vampire if they’re gross enough.
59-Victoria is too indiscrete with Riley.
60-Riley is stupid.
61-All of them dorks.
62-When Edward took his shirt off at the square; I can qualify him as ********.
63-Bella thinks she’s smarter than the rest of her classmates when she’s the idiot that FELL IN LOVE WITH A VAMP.
64-If Bella wants money for college, why doesn’t she apply for a scholarship?
65-It’s sick that Bella stayed in the forest after Edward left. Little attention-seeking leech.
66-I want to strangle SM for adding the superpower thing. I hate it.
67-I hate Jasper has no sense of humor.
68-Emmet is a
69-Angela shouldn’t be “perfect”.
70-Getting pregnant at 18 risks your life.
71-The Cullens hunt endangered animals such as grizzlies and want hunt jaguars.
72-I hate Reneésme grows quickly.
73-If she’s so smart, why doesn’t she run away from her manic family of idiots?
74-There’s no good reason werewolves should imprint.
75-Good web pages like Wattpad and Quizzilla (strike that—Quizzilla has never been a good webpage) have been stained by the black ink of Twilight.
76-Twilight is my favorite time of day. Now I’ve had to change it because people think I’m Twilight-obsessed.
77-Fanfiction has become a dark branch of literature now.
78-Bella’s so stupid. She makes raising a child sound like a piece of cake.
79-Charlie has no brains.
80-Neither does Bella, which is why Edward can’t read her mind.
81-Werewolves don’t have to mentally read their minds.
82-Why the hell does SM make them heal fast?
83-Why does Jacob run away? Can’t he just say NO to the invitation?
84-Bella ditches math to walk through a meadow just to bring bad memories.
85-Charlie should recognize his daughter’s insanity.
86-I might have reported Renee to the police for passing on insanity to her daughter.
87-How original, two impossible lovers.
88-How original, a love triangle.
89-Nothing’s original!
90-My brother says Twilight should be better than the Hunger Games or Narnia because they’re bigger. Well, guess what, bro? They’re better to whack your head with, as you have already learned.
91-There is no action in the book. In the first book the only highlight is the fight in Phoenix. In the second one...nothing. In the third one she actually skipped the fight. In the fourth one...again, nothing.
92-I am not giving in to the “but they’re in love!” explanation to “why are they so stupid?”
93-Jacob’s names for chapters are a disgrace to teen humor.
94-If SM writes Midnight Sun ...wait, she never will, because she said she would write it when everyone forgot about it, which is literally impossible because they’ve attacked teen romance, wounded cinematography, and hijacked the whole world with idiocies.
95-Laurent isn’t proactive.
96-Why does Bella have to have a hissy personality? Boys hate that.
97-That’s right...Edward counts as a girl.
98-SM should’ve twisted the thing up by making Charlie a drunkard who doesn’t care about Bella.
99-Everyone agrees with me, but even so...
100-I HATE TWILIGHT.
Prerak wrote: "Well, to say that I am a Twilight Book hater would be wrong...I dont hate it, BUT I DONT FIND ANY REASON TO LIKE IT EITHER.I agree. I DON'T hate it but I didn't love it. It was ok. I was a a bit of a fangirl when I first read it. LOVED IT but then I re-read it and realized that it certainly was not the BEST book I'd ever read. I like it but it has some... flaws that I've since noticed.
People have some excellent points, Edward staring at Bella while she sleeps, sniffing her and, in general being a creeper.
When you think about it, if Bella didn't have a major crush/like him in any real way, she would have been majorly creeped out by the fact that he was plastered to her window staring in at her.
And don't get me started on Bella... =/
But I like the book, I'm not a fangirl, I'm not crazy over it and given the option I'd pick up a different vampire book before re-reading Twilight or any of it's following books.
The only reason why Twilight is popular is because it provides wish fullfillment. Bella is a blank slate of a character, and the only thing that fills her out, even a little bit, is the show-and-tell narration that she likes books and reads a lot. (even though we only see her read 2 books in the whole series.)It is also not a love story. It is a lust story. Why do they even love eachother? They're attracted to one another..... that's it. Bella only talks about how smart or tallented Edward is only a few times. She NEVER shuts up about how hot he is.
Thier relationship is unhealty, some would even say abuseive. It has a lot of warning signs for abuse. There's a checklist somewhere... and you can check of nearly every sign when looking at Edward and Bella's relationship.
Also, I find the books racist. Being a vampire makes you white (Ignore movie Laurent. He is white in the books), and there are no important black, asian, or hispanic characters. The only guy who shows up who appears to be black is described as shady, and speaks in a stereotypical way. The native americans are also portrayed stereotypically, as well as the Brazilian housekeeper (servant, maid... I forget) on Isle Esme.
AND THAT CONVERSATION BETWEEN JABOC AND LEAH IS THE MOST SEXIST THING I HAVE EVER READ. It essentially says a woman is not a woman unless if she can have babies. WHAT THE HELL?!? And there is more evidence that Meyer is also sexist toward her own gender, includeing how Bella and the other females act, and how Edward treats her.
It's disgusting.
Oh wait, I got distracted and didn't say how it provides wish fullfillment to the reader. xDSee, since Bella is basically an empty pair of shoes, you can become her. You are Bella. Everything works out for her, she barely has to earn anything. Everything is handed to her. Love at first sight, a rich attractive boyfriend, and a lavish lifestyle are given to her. She is even able to keep a child (that shouldn't even exist since it breas canon AND ISLE ESME DOES NOT EXIST BECAUSE THERE IS NO WEST COAST OF BRAZIL, Thus 'Smee wasn't concieved) she wasn't supposed to keep, or survive the birth of.
Meyer likes to run away form conflict. I HATED that Bella never killed anybody as a vampire. That could've redeemed Breaking Dawn with some horrific, emotional writing, but noooooo. Bella has to be a perfect, super-special Sue.
Jo wrote: "100 Reasons Twilight Sucks.1-It is too copied off Jane Austen’s books. I hate that. Although JA also sucks...
2-The actors at the movies SUCK. Why can’t people get that when they’re nominated ..."
im not saying i like twilight (i used to when it first came out but not anymore) but if your going to go against it that much get your facts straight cuz most of the stuff on there is you not understanding the book and certain points. Almost everything you said is your opinion like "it sucks" or "no sense of humor." If you dont like it leave it alone
Valerie wrote: "Oh wait, I got distracted and didn't say how it provides wish fullfillment to the reader. xDSee, since Bella is basically an empty pair of shoes, you can become her. You are Bella. "
Yes. Just, yes. Same to most everything else you wrote above.
Ohh when i read the headline i thought u meant Sick in a good way. (which is how we use the word in New York) well, since im here now anyways and all, id like to say i love twilight and if i didnt have a job, a husband and a life id give u 100 reasons as to why i love it. Although i have to say i found ur list funny and did in fact enjoy reading it.
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The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
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Valerie wrote: "The only reason why Twilight is popular is because it provides wish fullfillment. Bella is a blank slate of a character, and the only thing that fills her out, even a little bit, is the show-and-te..."You are one of the few people who point out the series' not-so-subtle racism. Then again, what else does one expect from Meyer incorporating her Mormon beliefs? On the other hand, the entire paranormal genre tends to be most caucasian anyway--as if there can't possibly be weres, vamps and other mythical beings of other ethnicities. That gets to be pretty boring.
I can see why some would not like this series. I myself am an English major, so I’ve read my fair-share of ‘good’ lit....and some awful. Twilight was something I picked up in the summer to get away from literature and read something for enjoyment, and also because I was curious what all the hype was about. I won’t lie, I was engrossed; partly because I’ve read way too much lit in the last four years. Does it suck? No. Is it a good piece of writing? Definitely not. Did it get my attention despite the annoying things people have mentioned already? Yes.I don’t think Meyer was trying to write something good. She just wrote a story, nothing more.
Vixenne wrote: "Valerie wrote: "The only reason why Twilight is popular is because it provides wish fullfillment. Bella is a blank slate of a character, and the only thing that fills her out, even a little bit, is..."I don't see how people can not see it! D: If the readers knew more about Mormonisim, they would see that Meyer put her beliefs in her book. The reason why this is bad is because.... well, Mormonisim is... eh. I would say it's bad because of old church practices and beliefs, primarily the ones including the role of women in the religion, because those are still widely accepted.
Yes, a lot of fantasy books are about white people. :/ Agreed, that is boring. Then again, most fantasy writers are white. It is dissapointing, and I aim to change that with the manga I'm illustrating.
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Valerie wrote: "I don't see how people can not see it! D: If the readers knew more about Mormonisim, they would see that Meyer put her beliefs in her book. The reason why this is bad is because.... well, Mormonisim is... eh. I would say it's bad because of old church practices and beliefs, primarily the ones including the role of women in the religion, because those are still widely accepted. Yes, a lot of fantasy books are about white people. :/ Agreed, that is boring. Then again, most fantasy writers are white. It is dissapointing, and I aim to change that with the manga I'm illustrating..."
Just look at Bella's behavior. She's the perfect model of female subservience. She can't do anything without Edward. He becomes her raison d'etre. Any goals she might have had in the beginning are suddenly unimportant as long as Edward is there. In the first book, she makes it clear that she's not interested in being a parent--and considering her own uprbring such sentiments make sense--then Edward Cullen happens and "pow" she's all into being vamp-mom. The fact that she cooks and cleans for her father a la substitute housewife. I mean what was Charlie doing before Bella moved to Forks, eating McDonald's and wearing whatever looked clean?
And the whole Mormon thing about race? Every time I talk to the young men on pilgrimage, I bring that up and they never quite know howe to answer me without sounding like they've just left a Klan meeting, LOL. I couldn't believe it when I read that after death, if I'd been a good Mormon, that I'd turn white and ascend into heaven. That just floored me. Of course Meyer features Native Americans because according to Mormon beliefs, they were one of the first to have seen Jesus in North America. But they're nopt good enough to ascend into heaven as themselves either, LOL.
All I really want for all genres of literature is to just be more inclusive. The world is so diverse and the fact that authors can't reflect the beauty of that diversity is just maddening. I'm not talking the token ethnic character who ends up dead before the end of the book or movie, LOL. Let's have heroes and heroines who are of different races. It just makes sense.
Vixenne wrote: "Valerie wrote: "I don't see how people can not see it! D: If the readers knew more about Mormonisim, they would see that Meyer put her beliefs in her book. The reason why this is bad is because......."Exactly. Also, in Breaking Dawn, Edward makes Bella do a bunch of housework so she'll be to tired to have sex with him. WHAT IS UP WITH THAT? She isn't supposed to enjoy herself with you, Edbob? D: She's your wife! Change her into a vampire already, get it over with if you don't want to hurt her! Fuuu.... why are these characters so stupid?
I heard about that, and since I'm part Native American I'm offended. Mormons also think anyone who isn't pale skinned is cursed. .___. What is up with that? The Mormon religion only serves white men... fuuu... stupid. I have no words for how stupid it is, that religion makes my brain explode. I don't mind Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, Hindus... but if you're a mormon.... sorry, you're an idiot if you beleive all that crap. The Book of Mormon is a lie written by a false prophet who only wanted to practice his own beliefs.
Woah... do you live in the South or something? O.o The people around here are pretty cool, I haven't met a hardcore racist face to face in my whole life.
Same here. Why can't we have a main character who's black or hispanic, or another ethnic group? I know that's hard to write about, though, for white people. What if what you write comes of as offensive or ignorant? But authors should at least try. At least with my series I don't have to worry about the writing. >.> My writer happens to be black.
When I first read the first book, I thought it was okay. But then the storyline got worst. I hated the second book because it was so boring. Then I realized, the series just gives a wrong message to girls. Bella can't live without Edward, and her being depressed in the second book was just not right ! LOL I think the series is alright to read if you want something entertaining and want to get away from good literature.
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Valerie wrote: "Vixenne wrote: "Valerie wrote: "I don't see how people can not see it! D: If the readers knew more about Mormonisim, they would see that Meyer put her beliefs in her book. The reason why this is ba..."I actually live on the West Coast, which is why I'm so used to living around all kinds of people. Mormons actually ride through my neighborhood all the time on mission and everyone's cool with that. I just like engaging them in theology debates and making them somehow "defend" the racism that tarnishes their beliefs. They can't do it, so we agree to disgree on that aspect. I'm never going to believe that my dark skin is god's curse as they like to claim.
What bothers me the most about Twilight isn't the books as much as it is some of the fans who fall back on the "it's just fiction" as if that should keep it from any sort of criticism. All books--good or not--are going to be critiqued in some form or fashion. Everything from Homer to The Help. So why should Twilight be exempt? Someone accused Twilight non-fans of having an "anti-girl bias" because we criticized the questionable messages the books send. One would think that bringing those messages to light is doing girls justice--telling them that Edward's stalker/abusive behavior is unaaceptable for real relationships or that it's okay to have goals and to stick with them--boyfriend or not.
See...I understand that people will always criticize a piece of work, but there is a point when it goes too far. It’s like poetry: sometimes its best left alone. I’m not saying you can’t criticize Twilight or any other book at that matter...heck I would be completely contradicting myself if I said that ‘cause I’m English major. We could go on for days about all the crappy features that are in the books, but when it comes down to it she wasn’t trying to write “good lit”, she was just writing a story. Plain and simple. As I said earlier: “ I don’t think Meyer was trying to write something good. She just wrote a story, nothing more.” Some writers construct their works with intentions of classifying it as “good lit”. Meyer? Nope. I don’t think she was expecting people to criticize Bella and the characters and their actions because she was so wrapped up in her story. We can certainly see that she is a novice writer.
I don’t mean to knock criticism of the book, because I’m not. I enjoy having these conversations, but there just have been a few comments that are just digging too deep and over time it gets silly to strip the book with over-criticism. Yes, there is such a thing. I think all of the comments have plausibility and I think that it’s important to be able to criticize a text and be able to see it in different viewpoints, but, when people are over-criticizing it to the point that you get off-topic is when it gets kinda’ silly. I’m sure if some of the comments were thrown around a seminar you would have some weird stares....just ‘sayin.
Soo..basically, you have the right to criticize, but it would be nice if people understood what over-criticism was so we don’t have to get off topic and stumble into silly-zone where we are relating it to personal shi* and other off-topic criticism.
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So what would you consider "over-criticism"? I'm really curious now.I get that Meyer was only writing a story. And if she wrote it for just herself and some close friends, that would be one thing. But Twilight is in the public domain and therefore comes under scrutiny. She doesn't get a free pass because "it's just a story".
When she first wrote it all it was was a hobby. She didn't know it would be published and especially not a really well known bestseller. It just came from a dream. It was originally written for fun not for a lot of others to read.
Some criticisms are things pointed out in a story that could have been better, while others are questions on the author's ability. But now you, as users, are adding your opinions on the mormon religion, which I think isn't exactly fair, since a lot of people make harsh judgements about the LDS church, as it is with all religions. Meyer did incorporate some aspects of Mormon religion into her writing, and there isn't anything wrong with that as long as you don't take with a harsh opinion. Some users on here are keeping their own minds closed about Mormon religion as they mouth off their opinions, and that, I think, is one of the worst insults. Because every religion is something that person believes in and it is something that you can't judge so easily because you have no idea what you're dealing with when it comes to a religion. Not until you've personally analyzed and experienced that religion. Buddhism, Catholicism, Hindu, Muslim, LDS, and many other religions need to be given respect because there are believers, no matter what you yourself believe in. So try and think a little more before you mouth off about the 'stupidity' of the Mormons, because some might take great offense in an offhand comment about how idiotic a religion is. As long as there are believers, it is something that gives people a guide in life, and insulting that makes you the foolish one.
Kataury wrote: "Some criticisms are things pointed out in a story that could have been better, while others are questions on the author's ability. But now you, as users, are adding your opinions on the mormon reli..."Agreed (:
Kataury wrote: "Some criticisms are things pointed out in a story that could have been better, while others are questions on the author's ability. But now you, as users, are adding your opinions on the mormon reli..."nicely put
Not so much a fan of twilight! Am wayyyyy over it.....hate the movies especially!
Even though I'm not the biggest fan (i dont hate it.) im still gonna see the Breaking Dawn movie
I'm not a fan at all in fact. I thought the first one had some potential, but I think it was the weakness of Bella's character in the second one that made me quit. I can't handle it when a hero/heroine isn't strong enough to overcome their trials. She was never able to get over Edward, so that was probably the major reason why I ditched them.
I read Laurel K Hamiltons Anita series way before this drival came out, so when I read the Twilight series it just didnt even compare. Everything was so mediocre about it, and the obvious emphasis of SMs personal beliefs just made it worse. There are so many other authors out there in the paranormal genre that far excede this series in all ways. Even my middle school students who read it found the characters pathetic and hard to relate to.
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Religion is a man-made power construct. It's sole purpose is control. Contrast that with FAITH, which is powerful and personal and doesn't rely on dogma to give guidance. Faith doesn't discriminate. Religion does. When a religion hurts or dehumanizes an entire group of people based on who they are, I'm calling it out for what it is. I know that's not PC or anything, but there it is.As far as Twilight is concerned, the Mormon influence is there and hey, some people are bothered by that for many different reasons. Granted, the influence was subtle, but her views on women are just questionable all around. Chalk my dislike of Bella to being someone who reads a lot and likes for my heroines to be strong-willed and kick-ass and able to make decisions not based upon how "hot" the hero is. She's unrelatable as a character because she's so perfect--her only flaw is that she's 'clumsy'. She doesn't grow as a character, just becomes vamp-mom and lives happily ever after in a proscribed role.
In case you didn't notice she didn't exactly want to be popular and she isn't perfect. She is shy and akward and clumsy. She is obsessed by Edward doesn't mean she is influencing others to obsess over guys. And in the entire book i didn't even notice anything religious of have to do with religion at all. Maybe I didn't notice but i doubt I'm the only one.
Olivia wrote: "In case you didn't notice she didn't exactly want to be popular and she isn't perfect. She is shy and akward and clumsy. She is obsessed by Edward doesn't mean she is influencing others to obsess o..."I agree. When (some) people write they don't take into consideration how it will impact the readers: they just write.
I can see how Bella isn't some people's "cup of tea" for a main character, but that’s a matter of opinion. In reference to the Mormon comment that keeps appearing I don't think you are the only one who didn't notice it. I certainly didn't, but that doesn't mean it's not there. From what I’ve learned throughout the years of criticizing texts is that if you read a book with certain understandings you will see things differently (TS Eliot has a fantastic theory behind that, but that’s 'kinda off topic) Perhaps, differently than what the author was implying. This is the freedom of the readers, but it will impact the overall feeling one gets from the book.
The fact that you find it to be a way of control indicates that you yourself have never known what it is like to need something to guide you. The Catholic church, for example, is one of the biggest service organizations in the world, constantly aiding the homeless and caring for the poor. Giving hope in a time of darkness. The Mormon service organization has also acted in the same way, constantly receiving payments from members in order to provide for others. Buddhism has never required anything of a person. They may devote themselves to the faith as much as they wish, whether it be abandoning all material wealth to their family in order to attain enlightenment, or simply having a figure to pray to in order to have hope. A religion is a guidance in a person's life. Yes, it's terrible if a religion insults a race or gender or whatever. But those aren't the only beliefs a religion has. You focus your mind on the fact that Mormonism is racist, but once you heard that, you immediately closed your mind from anything else. You didn't know why the missionaries were there or what else they believed in. Every religion can be offensive in one way or another, in fact, the last I heard there was one that was trying to destroy another country, but they continue to pray to the East at certain points of the day and some outside their faith don't know why. But the fact that you so easily close your mind once something you find offensive has been heard makes you just as bad as your offender. You have no right to judge a religion just because you think all they work towards is control.
People depend on it not because they think that paying their leaders will get them a ticket to heaven. But because they believe in what they know. The ideals and principles of a religion will strike a cord in the hearts of a people. Their faith will grow as they experience what doing good really is. Fantasy novels are closely associated to religion because it helps people make the right choices in life. Good vs. Evil is what many religions have become these days. People must act righteously in order to attain salvation. It's because of people that don't have a belief that their lives become miserable and lifeless, with nothing to give them hope, nothing to help your spirits rise when you feel miserable.
From the beginning of time, Religion was a part of civilization that people depended on, because death is something that can be either terrifying, or another point in life in which we move on to some afterlife. Now, we have developed religions that will change the life of millions. You say that the sole purpose is control. But I think that it is truly belief. You simply don't have faith in anything, and therefore you see religion as nothing but a tool. But millions and millions of people see religion as a part of their life.
People depend on it not because they think that paying their leaders will get them a ticket to heaven. But because they believe in what they know. The ideals and principles of a religion will strike a cord in the hearts of a people. Their faith will grow as they experience what doing good really is. Fantasy novels are closely associated to religion because it helps people make the right choices in life. Good vs. Evil is what many religions have become these days. People must act righteously in order to attain salvation. It's because of people that don't have a belief that their lives become miserable and lifeless, with nothing to give them hope, nothing to help your spirits rise when you feel miserable.
From the beginning of time, Religion was a part of civilization that people depended on, because death is something that can be either terrifying, or another point in life in which we move on to some afterlife. Now, we have developed religions that will change the life of millions. You say that the sole purpose is control. But I think that it is truly belief. You simply don't have faith in anything, and therefore you see religion as nothing but a tool. But millions and millions of people see religion as a part of their life.
message 34:
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The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
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rated it 1 star
So explain how this plain jane, clumsy girl can suddenly find herself in a brand new school and suddenly become the "Bella of the Ball", LOL. Not only do the human guys want to date her, but the two non-human ones do too. She does nothing in the school that could make her popular--doesn't run for student government or become an athlete; she just is because that's what Meyer wanted. When one really thinks about it, there's absolutely nothing special about Bella at all--what defines her (sadly) is how she relates to men--namely Edward and Jacob. She has no real definition for herself.Again, my dislike of her as a character is due to my preferring stronger and more engaged heroines. Bella was a total let-down. Do I think Bella is like a guide for girls to follow? No, but I do think she's just another character in a long history of female passivity and helplessness that the media likes to portray.
Well, the main reason of my Dislike is Dumb Annoying and DEPENDANT character of Bella Swan. Moreover, i dont really understand the need of too much brooding in the story. It started brooding from the first part and continued till the last.and what the hell i read a news...Midnight Sun is in the market...and what is it? well, Stephenie tried to write the whole story from the point of view of Edward. Wow! How Pathetic can it get!
Holy hell! Wow. People call Twilight fans obsessive, but haters are just like a dog with a bone, aren't ya? You never seem to let up! Even we have lives outside of this series.Seriously, try logging off the computer and picking up a hobby. Like reading all "hundreds" and "thousands" of books haters all seem to go on about reading. Really, it seems that the haters are the ones that are over-obsessed with the series...
Jo wrote: "100 Reasons Twilight Sucks.1-It is too copied off Jane Austen’s books. I hate that. Although JA also sucks...
2-The actors at the movies SUCK. Why can’t people get that when they’re nominated ..."
Haha!
I completely agree.
Vixenne wrote: "So explain how this plain jane, clumsy girl can suddenly find herself in a brand new school and suddenly become the "Bella of the Ball", LOL. Not only do the human guys want to date her, but the t..."How did Bella become so popular you ask? You think that you need to be involved with school activities, etc to become likeable? No. Again, I’m not sticking up for Bella as a character and I agree that she’s not the most "stronge[st] and mo[st] engaged heroine," but, I don’t believe that she was ‘created’ to be only relatable to men. I can see where you think that, so I’m not knocking it, but If you can look at the bigger and see another side you won’t knock it so quickly. That’s the fun of criticizing: being able to accept other people’s criticism while having your own without getting so worked up about it. I myself agree how you see some things, but I am voicing why I personally chose to see it in a different light.
I don’t like to relate criticism to my personal experiences, but in this case I can. Any time you go to a little town and settle you are going to gain some unwanted, or wanted attention. She was the “new girl” and, as we all know from our school experiences is when a new classmate shows up,who is apparently attractive people tend to get excited. Girls get jealous and boys get excited. The pickings are probably slim when it comes to girls and guys in a small town, so yes, she’s appealing. Does this make it a good heroine in your books? No. Since that’s how you like your characters you will see the book negatively off the start. If you enter a book with a few problems, chances are you won’t enjoy that. Oh and yes, Meyer did create what she wanted. It’s her book.
Do I think there is a lot of things that are special about Bella? Not really. Do I think that makes her a character with no definition and is only relatable when it comes to men? No. I will admit that she gets a little over-the top with trying to understand who Edward is and becomes almost engrossed with it, but that’s because of her persistence she has. The reason Edward falls for her is not only for blood lust, but shes the first girl whos probably not following him around like a lost puppy. He even gets satisifaction out of her turning down Mike. In the first book we can see how Bella likes her own space and isn’t out to get a boyfriend like most girls her age. Sure she’s very curious about Edward, but it doesn’t mean she relies on men. I can see your reasoning’s throughout the series, but we really get to know her in the first book.
Another thing: It drives me wild when readers try to make a role model out of characters. It’s a book for entertainment purposes, just like movies are, games, plays, etc. They are not out to make roll-models, it’s for entertainment. When people finally come to realize this and stop bickering over the character because YES, she has some crappy qualities that are not “roll model” standards. I’m pretty sure If I was a boy reading Hamlet that I’m not going to start acting crazy. That’s a little of an exaggeration of the point I’m making, but It still is entertainment isn’t it? Just because Twilight has hit millions of girls bookshelves doesn’t mean it’s a “role model”. Many young girls know that you don’t get married at a young age and how to be a strong person. They don’t see Bella and try to be like her. It would be nice if people could drop that Idea. People won’t, but it’s a nice thought.
This is all I have to say about this discussion because obviously people don’t understand that we GET what you are saying, we just like to add our own opinions. I have said numerous times that I UNDERSTAND where people are coming from and openly admit it has plausibility, but, since we are discussing the book I would like to add a comment. Since I HAVE a life, I probably won’t post any more because it’s getting ridiculous. Some people never let up.
sorry it's so long people, but I was trying to settle something so I can leave this discussion.
not the best book series out there. i finished the first book then tossed the rest. i couldn't decide who ticked me off more - Bella Swan or Kristen Stewart.
I dont think SM particularly wanted Bella to be a weak or strong character. She just made a character and went with it, not thinking about what kind of 'role model' she would be. There are plenty of girls who obsess over boys. Hopefully they don't take it to heart that Edward is the perfect guy that Bella thinks he is--I hope parents warn their daughters that if a guy breaks in and watches you sleep/disables your car so you can't go see other guys, etc, you should get a restraining order, NOT go out with him. But that's not SM's responsibility. About the religion thing, I didn't know SM was a Mormon until I'd finished the first or second book, and I don't know much about Mormonism (if that's what it's called). I do know that there are some ethnic vampires, a lot represented in my books The Superiors, where vampires are all different ethnicities but I never dwell on race, and a series by Veronica Massey, a wonderful black lady who writes paranormal & vampire novels (Crimson Dawn is one of the good ones). Most of the other vampire novels I've read have only white vamps, like you said. There's a Native American vamp in the Sookie Stackhouse series, but it's certainly not a flattering representation!
Just wanna focus on the "bella of the ball" commentHonestly i dont think they portrayed Bella to be the popular one in the school. However she was well know by the other students for many many reasons:
1. She was the sheriffs daughter
2. she was the new girl in school. she got attention from the other students because they all knew eachtoehr from childhood and she was fresh meat.
3. She recieved attention from the Cullens. Noone receieved attention from the cullens.
4. She was almost crushed by a van.
5. " she fell out of a window and broke her leg." Everyone wants to be sign a cast.
message 43:
by
The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
(last edited Jul 27, 2011 01:22PM)
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rated it 1 star
I really don't think I said anything about Bella being a role model. And frankly, Bella's not all that likeable. Any human friends she has are automatically relegated to the back burner when Edward's around. She pretty much drops her closest girl friend because she doesn't have time to hang out and do typical girl stuff without thinking 24/7 about Edward. Once she's obsessed with Edward, there's no room in her life for anyone else. Bella's popular because that's what Meyer tries to imply in the narrative, even though her actions completely undermine that assertion. High school dynamics don't change, even in a small town. In fact I would think kids would tend to close ranks until they've figured out how the new kid ticks.
I never really addressed the religion/faith thing so let me say this: Faith is what guides people. It's what keeps them going when all seems lost and brings them peace. I see Mother Teresa as an example of FAITH. She took the teachings of christian faith and applied it to helping the sick, the poor and the lost. She lived in the slums of India, a country she knew relatively little about and didn't even speak the language. She kept going even when she said herself that there were times she could not hear the voice of god. That's what I admire, respect and strive for (so to say that I don't believe in anything is to utterly misconstrue what I was saying). Religion, to me, is the exact opposite. It builds nothing and requires no more than mouthing platitudes when told to. It's exclusionsary and static. It's "my way or the highway" and it's not gentle, nor does it brook any questioning. Faith allows for one to question, to even doubt and from there to grow stronger. Martin Luther King is also an example of faith at its best.
the series isnt exactly good... but i can deal....if i dont have to see more than whats needed. what i dont get is how dramtic they have to make everyone. especially in the movies bella just seems wayyy too spastic. especially when she grabs her hair and screams at the top of her lungs for something not to happen, it just seems like she wants everyone to feel bad for her if somethings DOES go wrong.
Natalie wrote: "sorry it's so long people, but I was trying to settle something so I can leave this discussion."You'd have an easier time teaching a monkey to ride a bike.
Valerie wrote: "The only reason why Twilight is popular is because it provides wish fullfillment. Bella is a blank slate of a character, and the only thing that fills her out, even a little bit, is the show-and-te..."Hello! I'm black, lol, and truthfully, I didn't find this book racist. Of course, as a black person, I would have loved to read about a black vampire or hispanic or anyone who wasn't white. However, at this stage of the game, I'm kind of used it to not really being represented in young fiction literature (thought I have found some books that have a great amount of diversity, Hunger Games and Mortal instruments).
Also, as the books went, on, she does put black people in it (though I don't remember how they were depicted). Especially in the fourth one (at least, I think he was black), so I appreciated that. Also, sadly, I was talking to a friend of mine a couple years ago and she told me that there are no black vampires; they're all white. I more disappointed to hear that than offended; in a way it's almost being told "there are no black princesses" when you're a little girl who wants to play castle with her friends.
As for feeling about Twilight in general. I liked it. I liked the first book. I recently reread the first chapter and peoples were right, the writing is not that good...at all. I thought Twilight was fun, just sad that Edward didn't bite her. The rest of the books are what made me frustrated (don't even talk to me about Bella). The plot and story kept me going, but overall, I do remember feeling so disappointed after each ending and the last book, had so much potential, so much and she messed it up! It was awful, I'm like "really? You just made me waste my time and money. Unbelievable..."
Those are my two cents :)
Vixenne wrote: "Valerie wrote: "I don't see how people can not see it! D: If the readers knew more about Mormonisim, they would see that Meyer put her beliefs in her book. The reason why this is bad is because......."Hmmm, so we go from why we dislike the series so much to completely trashing the series because of abhorrence to the story, to trashing the author, to trashing her religious beliefs, which now takes us completely away from the initial reason for the feed.
I am black and a devout Mormon Christian. I consider myself a total rebel when it comes to political correctness and the world's assumptions, and you would have a very hard time finding a less submissive person. But I am also a nice person and believe that everyone is entitled to his or her opinion when it comes to everything. I love the written word and I have favorite books in various genres. I've read books that I absolutely love and books I don't care to read again. I come away from each novel I read having learned something, and I am grateful for that. I love being an author and I have respect for other authors. Sure, there are some whose books I will probably never open, but it is only because I have no interest in the story or the subject, and nothing against them personally. This is my choice, and a choice we all have.
I have a great deal of respect for Stephanie as an author and I think she is definitely one of the bravest out there. I like the Twilight series. I don't love it, but I like it well enough. There are many other young adult series out there that I really do love. However, what the person does or doesn't believe personally has nothing to do with it.
It takes a great deal to offend me so I'm really not offended often. I choose not to be and I try not to be offensive in anything I say.
But there are many would be put off by the religious comments. But again, we all have our perrogative to say whatever we wish.
Now, I will kindly jump down off the unintended soapbox and say I've enjoyed following the comments:-)
Guys, lets just stick to basics and not drag this discussions down to the lanes of religious beliefs and racism...that is not the concern here...the point is Twilight is Hated more than it is Loved, and even if Loved, then by the community of people who seem to find a refuge from the harsh realities of this world, and be dependent. The Characters in the story were damn suffocating and too dependant...basically, a band of all losers....doing no good either to society or to themselves either...the story just brags on and on and on and never seems ending...and well, the DEAR BREAKING DAWN...wow! After reading it, i really needed a DAWN!
Natalie - I agree with you. Is it well-written? No. Does it have issues? Yes. Can you put it down? No.This is girl crack. And just because I like it doesn't mean i don't want to smack Edward upside the head. As for Bella, well, she's a teenage girl, and we're all pretty stupid about guys at that age.
Besides the usual complaints, does anybody else notice that SM can't write a kissing scene? The whole thing just grinds to a halt when she tries.
I understand Edward character. He falls in love after living alone for a long time. What he wants is to be near Bella all the time. Most of us feel the same. And Edward is capable of doing so. And Bella loves the idea. That is a bit weird. As much as a teenager loves a boy, no one is happy about a boy standing up inside the bedroom in the middle of the night.Bella is so obsessive. All girls could fall in love and have a broken heart, but for Bella, it is Edward or not. And while loving the far-away Edward, she also gives her heart to Jacob.
And Jacob? He is the lamest character.
Breaking Dawn is breaking my heart. Sparkling vampires are hilarious enough, but the whole thing about the pregnancy is terrible. And the baby imprinted one. Oh my!
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I mean, what the hell is this book and why the hell is so much HYPE about it?
Does it have a GREAT CONCEPT?
Hell NOOO! it might be intriguing to have a love story between a human and a vampire, and that too may be digestable for initial few pages, but once the thing start stretching over that, it starts getting sicker.
Characters? Well, Bella is PATHETIC! Edward is sooooooooo COLD and pointless and THE SAME at all the time! JACOB is HOT! i mean Are we here to have a combination of HOT AND COLD HERE BEING DRUNK BY A PATHETIC HUMAN? it was stupid!
STORY???? Well was there any story? Bella keeps BABBLING about Edward being so cold and perfect in all the books, and Edward seem to be SOOOO OBSESSED with this human that he watches her sleep, sniff her like a dog, stare her all the time! EEEWWW! that's creepy and ugly! Jacob is depressing!
I guess Twilight is nothing more than a stupid TOUCH ME NOT, OR I WOULD DIE kind of novel, over which unsatisfied girls are SWOONING! its SICKENING!