Tess of the D’Urbervilles
discussion
Who do you think is most responsible for the fate of Tess?
message 51:
by
Robin
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
May 09, 2012 12:49PM
She was like a lamb put out to slaughter in a sense.
reply
|
flag
Robin wrote: "She was like a lamb put out to slaughter in a sense."It's true.
It was very cruel what happened to Tess. Even so, I have admired in her that despite all what happened to her, in the end she was very strong and she didn't lose her essence. Honestly I would have blame and get angry with everyone in her place (specially my parents), wanting to express my suffer to everyone, fight with everyone and make everyone feel what I had.
And Alec, he really deserved to die and more (maybe making him suffer and leaving him half dead and disabled). Saying that he was a bastard (or son of a ...) is very soft to describe him. There should be another stronger word to describe him.
A professor of mine recommended this book to me. I thought it was an odd book to steer me toward; however, I think he knew I could understand the many layers of it. For about five years, I would read this book once every year, and I did fall in love with it. Tess is a product of her society, and although she does things that are infuriating at times, the other characters are absolutely awful compared to her.
Susana wrote: "Weird wrote: "That parson guy from the begining. If he had just kept what he knew to him self then all that crap could've been avoided!"Well, that's true. But her father is to blame,too."
Yeah! Him too!
I think the fact that lived in a town that was in a way secluding her from the outside world, didn't help much. Maybe if her parents had prepared her better or she had lived in a city and knew the evil ways of man, she'd have done better for herself. I think the most infuriating part of the novel is when he mother tries to blame her pregnancy on her and Tess turns to her and says: "I was just a child. Why didn't you warn me? ". I think how it shows how unprepared for the world was she.,
Susana wrote: "I think the fact that lived in a town that was in a way secluding her from the outside world, didn't help much. Maybe if her parents had prepared her better or she had lived in a city and knew the ..."Her mother blaming Tess pregnancy on her?, that is one of the most awful things a parent can do and shouldn't.
What I can also remember is her mother KNEW IT, but she didn't tell her anything because she was afraid (and it had been true) that Tess would have said no, ruining their chance to enter to the high society.
Tess was very intelligent, unselfish, sensible and sensitive, and I am certain she would have dealt with the cruel world like Jane Eyre. The problem was that no one told her, she was secluded of the world and became a scapegoat for everyone´s problems, including her parents.
What I also couldn't stand is that her father instead of helping her in getting someone to baptize her baby, he kept her in her room.
It's true. I think her parents saw her as a way out of their miserable lives and never cared to see that their daughter wasn't a tool to be used.Yes, Tess was sensible and unselfish,but I think she was more naive than Jane. I think Jane due to her unfortunate early circumstances became aware of certain realities unknown to Tess.
Tess was very naive of the ways of the world, in comparison to Jane Eyre. Jane's being brought up by an evil aunt and relegated to the room of disaster. I think Tess was sheltered from all of that by her parents who did her a huge disservice in marrying her off essentially because they had too many other mouths to feed at home. And they thought that she would be provided for.
You have a good point Robin and it supports mine. If Tess hadn't been sheltered by her parents and been thrown abruptly to the world, she would have developed more her own qualities and abilities apart from being less naive.
Angie wrote: "You have a good point Robin and it supports mine. If Tess hadn't been sheltered by her parents and been thrown abruptly to the world, she would have developed more her own qualities and abilities ..."The worst thing is stuff like that happens today as well. Our parents shelter us in the earlier years of our lives and then once we're five we are sent to school where all the other kids seem to know all about sex, drugs and violence. So, our naivety makes us look like an easy target to bullys.
Yes, your points are well taken Weird. It does seem that children do lose their innocence, and getting back to Tess, she was a simple country girl who knew no better. So she thought what her parents thought was the best thing for her, wasn't in the end.
Robin wrote: "Yes, your points are well taken Weird. It does seem that children do lose their innocence, and getting back to Tess, she was a simple country girl who knew no better. So she thought what her paren..."You know, like Weird wrote, this is the same issues some families deal in the present when the sons and daughters are "good" boys and girls.
It is said (the Bible, the Coran, other religious writings, etc) that you must love, respect and obey your parents because they gave you the life, they know best and they love you.
And then the contradictions of the real life appears: what if parents are selfish, egoist, arrogant, think they know best, authoritarian, overprotective, careless, anxious, aggressive, submissive, depressive, hypocrites and/or inmature?
What if children cannot distinguish between good and bad, are followers and they trust 100% in their parents thinking that they won't hurt him or her, that they really know best and that they must be good sons and daughters in order to get their parents love and go to heaven?
Tess was her own worst enemy, in my opinion. She made horrible decisions and so many of them were based primarily on foolish pride.
Her dad was a drunk. Tess had to drive the cart. She killed the horse. She felt she had to pay for it. She took the job with the D'Ubervilles because she felt guilty for killing the horse.She got raped. She became a fallen women in the eyes of her society. She was even rejected by Angel because of it, even though he apparently had seen through the religious and other superstitions in his society.
She ended up with Alec and then killed him when Angel returned.
Her dad's drunkeness was the cause of her fate, plus societal conventions. I think the whole business about the arbitrariness of societal conventions about sex was a major point that Hardy was trying to make. In his view Tess was a good girl in a rotten society. That was the point he was trying to make.
Societal conventions, unfair, unreasonable were the cause of Tess's tragic fate.
Since she was a child when the trouble began I would say her parents.
Mocha Spresso wrote: "Tess was her own worst enemy, in my opinion. She made horrible decisions and so many of them were based primarily on foolish pride."Foolish Pride?, maybe because of the others' foolish pride, but not because of her own pride.
Her decisions were done by her because of the opposite, because she was putting her family and the ones she loved first.
Angie wrote: "Mocha Spresso wrote: "Tess was her own worst enemy, in my opinion. She made horrible decisions and so many of them were based primarily on foolish pride."Foolish Pride?, maybe because of the oth..."
Some of her poor decisions were selfless but not all. She chose not to tell Angel about her past before marrying him. That was a purely selfish act...not a selfless one. She chose not to go to his family for help as he instructed her to before he left. That decision wasn't selfless either. That decision was rooted in a combination of pride and shame.
Mocha Spresso wrote: "...That decision was rooted in a combination of pride and shame. "I agree with you about shame, but she wasn't a proud woman. If she had been very prideful, she wouldn't have accepted in returning with Alec, she wouldn't have felt bad when Angel abandoned her, she wouldn't have been submissive with her parents, she wouldn't have felt that everything was her fault.
Even when she needed help in things that were important to her like baptising the baby or asking to bury him in a holy place, anyone didn't help her. That could be another reason of why she didn't ask for help after.
Angie wrote: I agree with you about shame, but she wasn't a proud woman. If she had been very prideful, she wouldn't have accepted in returning with Alec, she wouldn't have felt bad when Angel abandoned her, she wouldn't have been submissive with her parents, she wouldn't have felt that everything was her fault.Even when she needed help in things that were important to her like baptising the baby or asking to bury him in a holy place, anyone didn't help her. That could be another reason of why she didn't ask for help after.
.."
Are you referring to her accepting the ride from Alec in the beginning? If so, I saw her decision to accept Alec's offer in a completely different light. I saw her as being too proud and prudish to participate in the festivities of that night. I got the impression that she was looking down on the others and that accepting the ride was mostly due to her perception of which was the lesser of two evils.
Mocha Spresso wrote: "Angie wrote: I agree with you about shame, but she wasn't a proud woman. If she had been very prideful, she wouldn't have accepted in returning with Alec, she wouldn't have felt bad when Angel aban..."I was referring to give her hand in marriage to Alec, if she was so prideful, she would have said no as an answer.
About accepting the ride, as you know she was very naive that without knowing, she antagonized Alec's last lover, she wasn't looking down on the others. One thing is to say bad things on purpose, and other thing is do it because of naivety or absent-mindness.
She accepted Alec's ride because, as you wrote, thought it was the lesser of two evils.
Mochaspresso wrote: .Are you referring to her accepting the ride from Alec in the beginning? If so, I saw her decision to accept Alec's offer in a completely different light. I saw her as being too proud and prudish to participate in the festivities of that night. I got the impression that she was looking down on the others and that accepting the ride was mostly due to her perception of which was the lesser of two evils. ."I agree with you about Tess's motive for riding with Alec. She abandoned herself to her impulse; victory over other women, the pride. Pride and Impulse are some of her inherited characteristics.
Like you said before, her bad decisions caused her tragedy as well as men and social convention. While Angel implied that he eventually comes back for her, Tess made a choice to go with Alec. She had a choice. Like she said to Alec, she could ask Angel's parents for money, and she was probably able to get hold of the jewelry that she was given from Angel's grandmother, if it was only a matter of money. Was it her pride? Or luck of courage? However, Her return to Alec was gratuitous.
She made herself stuck. She was torn apart between two men, when Angel came back. It mainly owed her, while she blamed Alec. She had no right to blame Alec for convincing her that Angel was not coming back, how did he know better than her? I hope she knew it herself.
How about her murder of Alec? Was it a bad decision or not? I believe she killed Alec for her own salvation. She could've run off with Angel if she wanted a happiness with Angel without killing Alec, if she really had a future with Angel, which I don't believe. However, she chose to take down her seducer, her tempter; the serpent who seduced her to commit sins and made her fallen twice, by her own hands, for her own salvation, sacrificing her own life, which I think is a graceful act, but total madness.
Who I think is most responsible is of course Angel! His hypocrisy and priggishness, and his elevated righchousness is horrible, as well as his immaturity, selfishness, and stupidity. He is a moron and a scam. He actually dominated her mind. Tess herself owed her own downfall, by worshipping Angel like God, which is an idle worshipped by Baal, the Tishbitr spoke, which means worthless. She couldn't see what she was doing. I hate Hardy for describeing women as emotional and who don't think. If Tess had a brain, when Angel judged her on wedding night, she would've waken up and given a punch right in his face. Instead, she submitted and devotted to him like an idiot. Her blinded love for Angel is the biggest cause for her decline, which lead to her ultimate madness. Alec caused Tess's fall but he was not the one who destroyed her. Actually, I think Alec is the one who knew what he was doing, and most intelligent one. But for him, pursuing Tess was his fatal mistake, since she turned out to be his femme fatale.
Her mother was definitely responsible for her fate. Joan should have warned her about the dangers that are out there. Instead, she went out and got absolutely sloshed instead of preparing all of her daughters for the outside world. If the book was set in the twenty first century, she would have had her kids taken away from her.
Mimi wrote: "Mochaspresso wrote: .Are you referring to her accepting the ride from Alec in the beginning? If so, I saw her decision to accept Alec's offer in a completely different light. I saw her as being to..."I agree with you at some point, you have good arguments about Tess and Angel's decisions and actions. Nevertheless, the novel is very close to reality.
I don't like the story for many reasons, even so, I don't totally dislike it because he decided to keep the feet on the ground and tell us what really happens in the world instead of adorning his stories like fairy tales do.
About waiting for Angel, is like if you have already broken up with your bf/gf and you still have hopes that someday he/she will return to your side. If it passes a long time and he/she doesn't keep the contact, would you still wait for him/her or go on with your life?.
Returning with Alec, it would be like returning with an ex or with someone who had abused you before. He/she promises that he/she will never make you harm again, would you believe in that person?, yes?, no? why?
Of course, stories are different and one can say he or she is totally different, but in this world there is people who are like Tess who have to suffer because of their "bad" decisions and the not-so-fair situations and circumstances.
It's also funny that if these things happen to us, we will act different to the solutions we usually give to others.
Also our society, like in this book, is double standardized even though it is denied.
I think everyone had a role in Tess's downfall in one way or another. Her parents for sending her away when she was so young and naive, Alec for raping her, her employer at the end for working her like a slave. However, I think Angel was the most culpable because he was the one person who could have saved her from her tragic life. By accepting her past and loving her for who she was, he could have stopped the course of events that led to her death. Having said that, I think that(and Hardy was trying to emphasize) that society in general was the reason for Tess's downfall. It was the pervasive nature of the social mores at the time that influenced even Angel, a character we could otherwise get behind. As progressive as he thought he was, even he couldn't avoid buying into the ideas that were commonly held by society.
I think double standards of society had a large part in what happened to Tess.Alec took complete advantage of her and destroyed her innocence, and yet it is Tess who is looked down upon. Her parents believe that it is okay that Alec treated her the way he did, because he is wealthy and available for marriage. So he gets away with what he did, while Tess does not.
Angel Claire also takes up SO much of the blame. He did the same thing Tess did basically, (had sex before wedlock) and yet he has the nerve to judge her for it. It's just not fair that a man can get by with these things, but a woman is scorned.
All in all, it's Angel and Alec to blame, I believe. Plus the double standards of society, where men can get by with what women cannot.
If Tess is a tragic hero(ine), the tragedy owes to her character and circumstances. Interestingly in this story, the qualities in Tess leading to her misery and demise are appealing. Behaviors most of us use to defend and advance ourselves are dishonesty, selfishness, manipulation, and indifference to others. Tess refuses to do any of that even at pain of physical and mental distress.
Her greatest mistake was giving her total love to Angel without actually understanding him. Hardy describes how she understood him as a superior intelligence. In her total love she gave her soul to him. While he was certainly well intended, he gave greater allegiance to societal standards and intellectual dogmas than his genuine love for Tess.
Tess' love for a man unprepared to accept her fully and realistically, a man still hide bound by convention, was her critical mistake. Having given him her heart and soul, she was nothing but pain without him.
Tess. Her fatal mistake was loving Angel. Angel would have rejected her for her simplicity, being unequal to his sophistication, and family even without her blemished past. She gave her heart to Angel and he was bound to make her unhappy. If she hadn't loved a man she couldn't keep, none of her hardships after the wedding would've been nearly so great. It was unfortunate for her that her looks, smarts and grace made her appealing to Angel which, in turn, led her to believe a happy marriage to Angel was possible. Sadly, it simply wasn't and Hardy said so.
Hardy would have you believe the responsible party was the gods. We could blame it on fate. We could also blame Victorian society. But, and I haven't read this book in 35 years, though I used to be a Hardy scholar, my money is on Tess herself.In most of Hardy's heroes and heroines, there is a stubbornness, a willfulness, in their actions. I believe that the protagonist in most Hardy novels makes the choice, and then the gods or fate decide(s) to do something. Generally that something is pretty terrible, but not always. Despite the risks, Hardy's characters, especially the women, push against an unrelenting world with a "F..." you attitude. Considering the lousy status of Victorian heroines, from Austen (not Victorian I know, but go with me on this) to Eliot to Bronte 1 and 2, which resulted in a general feeling of not being fulfilled, you can't blame them.
Ultimately Tess was responsible for her sad fate. She was unable to accept her lot in life but was equally unwilling to take the bold actions that could have changed it.
Deeptanshu, it's not clear just what "lot in life" Tess couldn't accept, other than her cohabitations with Alec. Still, in these stays with Alec she demonstrates resolve in ending them. In the first case she abruptly leaves. In the second case she murders Alec.
Social indoctrination and conventions. Not anything as mysterious as fate.
Mochaspresso wrote: "Tess was her own worst enemy, in my opinion. She made horrible decisions and so many of them were based primarily on foolish pride."The decisions Tess made because of pride didn't seem foolish to me. Her decision to reject Alec the first time was proper. Her last minute decision not to seek help from Angel's family when it became clear to her than her family would regard her as unworthy was admirable. It seems to me Tess preferred to starve rather than accept aid from anyone regarding her as unworthy of their generosity. Who are we to decide anyone putting their self-esteem ahead of their survival is wrong? If we think it is wrong, then we're telling a lot of people who risk their lives for others they're being foolishly prideful.
The central quality of Tess is that she puts her sense of virtue and duty ahead of her own well-being. That quality is less common now than perhaps in the mid-nineteenth century, but it remains admirable to many.
When one knows that one is not respected by the other person no amount of love can compensate for the loss of respect. Tess loved Alec but she also knew that in the circumstances in which he left her, he did not respect her. It was no wonder she did not ask for his family's help. Moreover, she had overheard his brothers regarding her as a totally unsuitable match and a stupid decision on Alec's part. How then could she go and beg for food?
Richa wrote: "When one knows that one is not respected by the other person no amount of love can compensate for the loss of respect. Tess loved Alec but she also knew that in the circumstances in which he left h..."Agreed, so long as when you refer to Alec you mean Angel.
Ahh. Sorry. My bad. Angel.
Recall the reunion at the novel's end. Angel returns, he pledges his love, the couple spends a few days alone, mostly in a darkened room of a vacant mansion and a few hours at Stonehenge when Tess says her several days with Angel gave her total happiness. But, there are a few discordant notes. The reunion begins with Angel thinking her spirit is separated from her body, adrift, and she tells Angel it's too late. Later Tess tells Angel their togetherness can't last long because he's soon despise her. He denies her conviction, but when they part at Stonehenge she's still convinced their happiness can't last and that she's glad to be capture (and soon to be executed) having experienced bliss yet spared another rejection.Hardy's description of the reunion is literally accepted by nearly all readers. I have a different interpretation. The reunion was entirely in Tess' mind. After weeks in misery with Alec and convinced Angel would never return to her, she's nearly lost her mind. It's long been her trait to accept any hardship to maintain her virtue, but at last her misery has been too much for her. Her only positive reason to live is her love for Angel, who's rejected and left her. She's probably experienced the fantasy of blissful reunion with Angel many times, but this time it follows her decision to end her life. She's killed Alec, which she surely knows will bring a prompt end to herself.
Hardy's treatment of this fantasy is likely a book end to Angel's sleepwalking scene on their wedding night. Then Hardy used the contrivance to illustrate Angel's emotions which were repressed by his conformist convictions. Here Hardy shows us that while Angel thinks his love for Tess is gone, it's still within him. In the reunion fantasy Hardy is illustrating to us the extent her misery has starved her sanity. About the only function of her mind is to fantasize the fulfillment she can't have in reality. For Tess, total love for Angel meant she couldn't long survive his rejection of her.
Dave wrote: "The decisions Tess made because of pride didn't seem foolish to me. Her decision to reject Alec the first time was proper. Her last minute decision not to seek help from Angel's family when it became clear to her than her family would regard her as unworthy was admirable. It seems to me Tess preferred to starve rather than accept aid from anyone regarding her as unworthy of their generosity. Who are we to decide anyone putting their self-esteem ahead of their survival is wrong? If we think it is wrong, then we're telling a lot of people who risk their lives for others they're being foolishly prideful. The central quality of Tess is that she puts her sense of virtue and duty ahead of her own well-being. That quality is less common now than perhaps in the mid-nineteenth century, but it remains admirable to many.
"
It's been a while since I've read it, but I didn't think that Angel's parents actually shared those same views toward her. I don't remember getting that impression at all. Didn't his mother say something about how loyalty and a willingness to work hard would be better for him on the life path he was intent on taking than a "lady" would ever be? I think Angel's parents would have been more charitable and tolerant of Tess than the brothers. I don't think she should have let a snippet of a conversation dissuade her from seeking help from them. Angel told her to go to them for help and they certainly would have helped her regardless of how the brothers felt about it. That's why I saw that decision to not seek help even after Angel instructed her to do so as foolish. She was Angel's wife. The money that he left for her was technically hers anyway.
....All of this could have been avoided had she told him the truth before she married him...
...btw, it also rubbed me the wrong way how it seemed as if Angel and Alec were the only fish in that sea. What would have been so wrong with finding a poor farmer or laborer who actually loved her for her just as she was? I didn't like Alec at all, but I think that given that particular choice, I would have preferred his much more realistic view of Tess than Angel's impossible, idolized and placed way up high on pedestal view of her.
Mochaspresso wrote: "Dave wrote: "The decisions Tess made because of pride didn't seem foolish to me. Her decision to reject Alec the first time was proper. Her last minute decision not to seek help from Angel's family..."Mochaspresso, you're right that Angel's parents, particularly the father, may not have felt Tess was as unworthy as his brothers and Mercy Chant. But, surely you can understand that it was hard for Tess to ask anyone for money under any circumstances. Knowing the brothers would consider her unworthy was enough. Throughout the novel Tess willingly sacrifices her personal well-being to her virtues and to help others, but never will she ask others to help her. The story might've had a happier ending if she'd had a different personality, but this story is built upon the personality she had.
You're also right that there surely were other men in Wessex Tess might've loved and been much happier. But Tess fell in love with Angel. Passionate love led to marriage and unhappiness, and that's a theme in Hardy's novels. Loving Angel was surely her worst mistake, but who amongst us is rational about who we love? Even then, in loving Angel Tess was unwise in giving him her total love--she held nothing back. Again, however, this is simply her personality, she's pure of heart and it's her nature to give all she has to those she holds dear.
Finally, you're right that had Tess successfully informed Angel of her past before marriage, the unhappiness that followed the wedding would have been avoided. But, don't all couples drifting toward marriage try to emphasize their appealing qualities and hide their flaws? Even then, didn't Tess initially reject Angel's advances and then try to make her past known to him before the wedding? As the wedding hour approached with her love for him increasing, she yielded to her emotions. Though I'm male, I fully empathized with Tess on this point (as well as the others above).
Although we may reject the whole notion of providence, wasn't it providence that the letter she wrote for Angel got swept under the carpet and he could not read her full confession? That may have either prevented him from marrying her or made him marry her with full knowledge and responsibility so as not to reproach her later. Tess realized that the letter had been unread only a few hours before the wedding. Even then she tried to tell Angel but was told that all confessions could wait till after the wedding. That he too had a confession to make.
The confession Angel made was of a similar nature. Just that he did not have to bear a child as a consequence. Tess was naive enough not to understand that similar mistakes committed by a man and a woman would have different effects. She was the fallen Eve.
While she forgave Angel even before his confession, and was somewhat elated that after that confession, the narration of her own past would not lead to further suffering, Angel, could not forgive her.
When he finally did, it was too late. By then Tess' life had taken an irreversible turn in the sense that she had given in to her mother's demand to become Alec's "creature".
Richa wrote: "Although we may reject the whole notion of providence, wasn't it providence that the letter she wrote for Angel got swept under the carpet and he could not read her full confession? That may have e..."Hardy leads us to understand Angel's wedding night rejection of Tess as the result of her seduction. In the abrupt revelation of this blemish he calls her "simple", accuses her of deceiving him and putting her personal desires ahead of fairness to him. As the novel continues we're lulled into believing Angel's rejection of Tess was the product of realizing Tess was a mere mortal with diverse human desires and imperfections. But, at the novel's completion we might wonder if Angel's problems with Tess weren't more basic and lasting.
Hardy remarked after the novel was published that Angel and Tess were incompatible. Specifically he attributed this incompatibility to Angel's "sensitivities." It's not clear whether Hardy was referring to Angel's sensitivities in accepting Tess' premarital sex and killing Alec or her character formed as a poor, laboring class woman and the product of dissolute parents
Some readers might feel a need to choose between the two possibilities of Angel's feelings toward Tess had their marriage continued. Could they have had a long and happy marriage if Tess had been a virginal and hadn't killed anyone? The answer depends upon Angel's true nature and Hardy doesn't give us allow us certain answer. The more I think about it, however, the more it seems Angel was probably just as rigid and insistent on societal standards he accepted as his brothers. Some might even say Angel was not, in a sense, an authentic man. It's pretty clear Angel is unlikely to love anyone as fully as Tess loved him, and we might even wonder if Angel is likely to be happily married to anyone.
Angel was undoubtedly a product of his society which considered a woman like Tess as fallen. He thought of himself, or Hardy presented him, as someone who was above all that, but he was not. He discovered that when Tess made her full confession. He discovered that he was not capable of forgiving her. And of course we are left to wonder if he would not be affected by the jibes of men or women who would know Tess and her past.After all he said that he did not want the topic to come up in front of their children years down the line. That meant he would be shaken by any reference to Tess' past even years later. So there was a simple solution. Let Tess be punished for another crime (killing Alec) and be hanged so that Angel could have her "spotless" sister, though it is made amply clear that he could never love her as much as Tess. Well, could he ever truly love Tess?
Oh, and I feel that it was not just seduction, it was also her need to be loved by the man she loved, a need for self preservation. But then she did confess. She had to witness her nemesis after all. She was not spared.
Richa wrote: "Angel was undoubtedly a product of his society which considered a woman like Tess as fallen. He thought of himself, or Hardy presented him, as someone who was above all that, but he was not. He dis..."You give Angel credit for a degree of self understanding not apparent from Hardy's description. He thought he was an advanced man thinking beyond his Christian upbringing, but after Tess' confession his actions show him otherwise. Yet, it's not clear he understands the contradiction between his self view and his actions.
Months later Angel has had no change of feeling when he meets a stranger to whom he reveals his marital condition. The stranger comments his difficulty is no big deal and rather abruptly his mind is reversed. Does Angel appreciate his thinking is conformist? No, he thinks the stranger has expanded his mind.
As for Angel finding a solution in leaving Tess to be hung so that he could marry Liza-Lu, to many it isn't clear what will develop between the two. Back to my point, it's not clear that Tess' worst blemish for Angel isn't being "simple" and the daughter of dissolute parents.
Richa wrote: "Oh, and I feel that it was not just seduction, it was also her need to be loved by the man she loved, a need for self preservation. But then she did confess. She had to witness her nemesis after al..."I don't understand.
@ Dave : Tess was seduced by Angel no doubt. Her desire to marry him was out of love. But as accused by Angel after her confession, she did not confess before marriage due to her desire for self preservation so that the marriage would not be jeopardized. But she did meet her nemesis (meaning retributive justice) when she was hanged for Alec's murder. We may say that she was hanged for the murder, but we may also view it as a narrative strategy to get rid of a fallen woman who would never find peace in her life anyway. Whatever peace she could find was ephemeral, far removed from society, in a cottage in the midst of woods.
It was a narrative strategy to placate the Victorian reader, so that their sensibilities would not be hurt and the novel would sell.
But again, we cannot go just by the closure. There are enough references in the novel to suggest that Thomas Hardy took a sympathetic view of Tess, her innocence, and her courage and stoicism in the face of hardships and the so called "downfall" and rejection by the one she loved.
In fact, the publication of the novel had initiated intense debate, particularly among ladies of high society in 19th century England, about the innocence or sin of Tess. There were many of Hardy's female readers who wrote to him after reading this novel that they wished the society then was more just and sympathetic to other women like Tess who had to face a similar fate. On the other hand, men during that time were more universal in condemning Tess. For men, there were no shades of grey,only black and white. There was either the "Virgin Mary" figure or the "fallen Eve". Tess was the fallen Eve.
If there must be a nemesis in Tess, one might question whether "retributive justice" would be it. It wasn't Tess' urge to flee from "retributive justice" nor was she sorry to be captured with her hanging certain. More likely Tess used "retributive justice" as a means to end her tortured and hopeless life.Alec plays as role as a melodramatic villain in this novel, but Hardy describes him well enough that many readers see positives in his character. Some see Angel as the greater villain, although many of us can't hate him for his inclination to conform.
Joan might have done more calculated harm to Tess than anyone, but it'd be hard to call her Tess' nemesis. Rather Tess' is an unnaturally pure of heart and stubbornly virtuous character positioned in an imperfect situation that requires some disingenuousness to get along. Tess refused to compromise her spirit for any reason and that choice simply sacrificed her happiness and desire to live.
All right.. Here is a question..Can anyone change destiny? Achilles knew he was born to die a glorious death on a battle field. he knew about Achilles' heel. He had the choice not to go for the war of Troy. Yet he chose to do so.
Dhrishtdyuman (He is a character in one of the greatest epics of India, Mahabharat) knew he sprang out of the holy fire to avenge his father's humiliation. He had the choice and the temptation to go with Sikhandin to the forest when she left the palace. After all he was a prisoner in his own palace, secluded from the rest of the family. Yet he chose to remain behind to fulfill his destiny.
Darupadi was destined to change the course of Bharat. She had the opportunity to marry Karna and change her own destiny, not allowing the marriage alliance with Arjun to turn the Pandavas as allies of her father. Yet she chose to take her brother's side.
Karna could easily have escaped after killing the cow inadvertently, mistaking it to be a wild beast. Yet he waited till the morning to find out who the owner of the cow was and to be cursed by the Brahmin that he would face a treacherous death.
Yet my mother refused to believe the astrologer who told her father (my Nanaji) that it was useless to educate her because she would not be able to study beyond class 10th. She has been a practising gynecologist on the verge of retirement. May be the astrologer was not genuine and she was destined to be a doctor.
Is not destiny shaped by our own character and the choices we make? Tess' was shaped by hers.. She chose to bear the punishment even when she had the "wise" advice of her mother not to reveal anything about her past to Angel.
So, are we really pawns at the hands of destiny or do we choose to embrace what we are destined to be?
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
