A Song of Ice & Fire Fans discussion
Which character do you dislike the most? (possible Spoilers of books 1-4)
I'll check it out, is it a series? I'm a big fan of Lynch, Abercrombie, & Stover
Like him or not Jon could be a product of L + R , which would make him one the heads of the dragon, many think so, I dunno, I just hope Arya gets vengeance to everyone & the Hound (a fav not one I dislike) is not done either :)
The first 2 Gormenghast books are a complete story, but Mervyn Peake died before he finished the series. Steerpike is a devious kitchen boy who infiltrates and destroys a royal family, the Groans. The books were conceived and partly written in the trenches during World War II as an escape for the author. They are the most surreal books I have ever read. I don't know the authors you mentioned. I mostly read fantasy written between 1895-1950: E.R. Eddison, Lord Dunsany, Robert E. Howard, H.P. Lovecraft, Francis Stevens, etc...
I read authors that been heavily influenced by the authors of that time period, I'll check that out. If u like confidence scams, great dialogue, & ruthless 'real life' stories (I hate it when all the 'good' characters never die, altho GRRM doesn't make any distinctions & kills peeps like the plague).Check out 'The Lies of Locke Lamora' by Scott Lynch, a great, recent author
Steven Erikson doesn't fall into 1950s but Malazan Book of the Fallen was written awhile ago, u read any of his stuff?
I found a lot of those authors because I don't like how modern books look. I started picking out used books based on how old they are about 12 years ago. Around that time, I found the Ballantine Adult Fantasy series, which was published in the late 1960's-early 1970's. All wraparound covers, reprints of classic fantasy and modern masterpieces. The hippies were big into fantasy and Gormenghast used to be as popular as the Lord of the Rings. Gormenghast is the castle that Rowling ripped off to create Hogwarts...
Anyways, the Godfather of fantasy is Lord Dunsany. He was the first author to create his own pantheon on gods and write about them. The first heroic fantasy completely based in another world was written by William Morris circa 1895-1896, but I don't like his stuff. Lord Dunsany is definitely the author most fantasy writers pattern their early works after until they find their own style...
The creator of the Dark Fantasy genre that A. Merritt & H.P. Lovecraft expanded was a woman named Getrude Barrows Bennett (pen name Francis Stevens). She wrote for pulp magazines briefly between 1917-1923, then disappeared entirely. I would have to say that she is possibly the most underrated writer I have ever encountered...
Anyways, I have many names on my list and hundreds of books I have not read yet, so I cannot commit to reading Scott Lynch or Steven Erikson. I will eventually overcome my aversion to new books, probably when I am older and they aren't new anymore...
Anyways, the Godfather of fantasy is Lord Dunsany. He was the first author to create his own pantheon on gods and write about them. The first heroic fantasy completely based in another world was written by William Morris circa 1895-1896, but I don't like his stuff. Lord Dunsany is definitely the author most fantasy writers pattern their early works after until they find their own style...
The creator of the Dark Fantasy genre that A. Merritt & H.P. Lovecraft expanded was a woman named Getrude Barrows Bennett (pen name Francis Stevens). She wrote for pulp magazines briefly between 1917-1923, then disappeared entirely. I would have to say that she is possibly the most underrated writer I have ever encountered...
Anyways, I have many names on my list and hundreds of books I have not read yet, so I cannot commit to reading Scott Lynch or Steven Erikson. I will eventually overcome my aversion to new books, probably when I am older and they aren't new anymore...
I would like to add one name to my list: Janos Slynt. I was really stoked when Jon Snow chopped his head off...
Absolutely, the fact that he got all excited when Jon says 'this isn't right' then cowers in the cage when Jon says 'bring out a block!!' Loved it
Ya. Stannis loved it too. He and Jon get along well because they are both heroes. They are both interested in preserving and protecting Westeros. Both of them know that the real enemy is north of the wall...
I find Jon a bit frustrating because I think his sense of honor and duty gets in the way of what he really wants. Ned was like that as well. He made some very poor choices (aligning himself with Robert, agreeing to a marriage between Joffrey and Sansa, refusing help from Renly then calling on Littlefinger), but I think Catelyn made his situation much worse when she took Tyrion captive. After Catelyn messes his situation up, she moves on to her eldest son. I thought Catelyn should have lost her head, not Karstark...
Anyways, Janos Slynt being executed by Jon Snow was one of the few times in the books when justice was truly served. Also, when the Unsullied slay their masters at Danaerys' command and when Arya/The Hound slay the Mountain's men in the Inn. Great stuff...
I find Jon a bit frustrating because I think his sense of honor and duty gets in the way of what he really wants. Ned was like that as well. He made some very poor choices (aligning himself with Robert, agreeing to a marriage between Joffrey and Sansa, refusing help from Renly then calling on Littlefinger), but I think Catelyn made his situation much worse when she took Tyrion captive. After Catelyn messes his situation up, she moves on to her eldest son. I thought Catelyn should have lost her head, not Karstark...
Anyways, Janos Slynt being executed by Jon Snow was one of the few times in the books when justice was truly served. Also, when the Unsullied slay their masters at Danaerys' command and when Arya/The Hound slay the Mountain's men in the Inn. Great stuff...
I feel the most sorry for Arya, she has had to make some rough choices in order to survive and that is taking its toll on her.I'll admit that she is pretty tough but each time she kills, it just gets her more away from her family and she knows that. She knows that things will never be the same now no matter how much she tries and that's what I pity the most about her.
Other notable mentions which I'm not going to explain further are (in decreasing order of pithiness):
The Hound, Tyrion, Jaime, Theon
I believe the question was to name a single most disliked character. Then - Ramsey... No doubt. He is pretty much the only one with no redeeming qualities ...But - Some strange comments above.... Someone named Jane Poole as most disliked!!! Seriously? Go figure.... yet Littlefinger got a fan club...Must be Starks haters since Littlefinger gets most of the credit for killing off the Starks, starting from Ned's brother and father...
People hate Jamie because of Bran, but no one mentions Sandor who butchered a butcher's son...(Micah, was it?) I love both - Jamie and Sandor...
Those who hate on Sansa - do you wish her dead? She is not very sharp but she is not evil. And she takes care of that sickly, screwed up by his insane mother little Robin - who was also mentioned on some hate lists. Why him? Cause he wanted to see "a little man fly?".. He is a little child, born to a great father - he cannot be that awful. (Oh, I would not cry for Dontos either, Tom - he was not really "helping" Sansa, or cared about her - he did it for money. )
I don't think Theon deserves such loathing either. It was not his plan to turn on Starks - it was his family who pushed him.
@ Zhenya I think many peeps probably put down who they found annoying or a waste of paper lol vs. weighing they're souls. Jamie & Sandor are also peoples favorites including me, just look at the thread titled 'favorites'.If master Aemon was able to turn down becoming the King of Westeros by his Targareon family after he took the black, I think lil'ole Theon could have made his own decisions, its usually never a plan for people to betray those they love, its usually opportunistic. Planning is usually reserved for a person with vengeance as a motivator.
Zhenya wrote: "I believe the question was to name a single most disliked character. Then - Ramsey... No doubt. He is pretty much the only one with no redeeming qualities ...
But - Some strange comments above....."
Bah. People in the military risk their lives and get paid for it, but I would never tell anyone that they were in it for the money. Dontos the Red took all the risk and got slain for it. The fact that Sansa is totally cool with going along with the plans of his slayer is sad. She is an extremely shallow character...
But - Some strange comments above....."
Bah. People in the military risk their lives and get paid for it, but I would never tell anyone that they were in it for the money. Dontos the Red took all the risk and got slain for it. The fact that Sansa is totally cool with going along with the plans of his slayer is sad. She is an extremely shallow character...
She kinda reminds me of that 'lame metaphorical reference in that movie 'American Beauty' with Kevin Spacey - where that plastic bag that was caught on video blowing in the wind all over yet never touching the ground - Sansa reminds me of that plastic bag lol, just floating around whenever she is led, I do believe she will grow a spine, I mean LF is her 'guardian', she's bound to be a lil'ruthless I hope
We shall see. Obviously, the Queen of Thorns, who is definitely one of the most intelligent characters in the books, was in on the slaying of Joffrey. Was Littlefinger? I don't know, but I don't doubt it either. I do not know what his intentions are with Sansa, but he obviously dug her mother. He may want the daughter in her stead. I honestly have no idea what lies ahead for those two or who Littlefinger is allied with. I don't like either of them, but I loath Sansa. She reminds me of the Sex Pistols song 'Pretty Vacant', but the floating plastic bag is right on as well...
If I had some divine weapon for butchering a character of ASOIAF, it'd have proven a very, very difficult choice between the monstrous bastard king Joffrey and the sick withered cunt Walder Frey. No words can calm the wrath within me as these two are par redemption.Joffrey: (view spoiler)
Walder Frey: How didn't his guts burst into chunks of meat, when he did such a horrible and ghastly act of (view spoiler)
I'm just doing a really slow re-read and Catylen is THE WORST meddler in the World. EVERY darn decision that Woman makes is wrong - she talks Ned into going South and staying there, she's horrid to Jon, abandons her children when they need her most (like I know sit with the sick on and ignore the others then abandon him eventually too) kidnap Tyrion and drag him across a really dangerous road with some old geezers and a singer. Aaarrrggghhh she's annoyed me soooo much this time! !!
N wrote: "I'm just doing a really slow re-read and Catylen is THE WORST meddler in the World. EVERY darn decision that Woman makes is wrong - she talks Ned into going South and staying there, she's horrid to..."
I agree with you. A lot of characters would still be alive if she just minded her own business.
I've started to hate her more and more.
And of course I hate the Lannisters. Seriously, who can really like them.
I agree with you. A lot of characters would still be alive if she just minded her own business.
I've started to hate her more and more.
And of course I hate the Lannisters. Seriously, who can really like them.
Catherine wrote: "N wrote: "I'm just doing a really slow re-read and Catylen is THE WORST meddler in the World. EVERY darn decision that Woman makes is wrong - she talks Ned into going South and staying there, she's..."Lannisters are AWESOME ;D
Tyrion Lannister is actually very likeable. Kevan ain't bad either. Lancel and Jaime start out very loathsome, but they redeem themselves a bit. Also, nothing wrong with Tommen or Myrcella. They seem like nice children. It's not their fault who their mother and father is. Tommen just wants a cat that Joffrey won't slay...
Lol looks like I'm the only one who hates the Lannisters. I think once I hate a character it's hard for me to like them (Jaime for example).
Catherine wrote: "Lol looks like I'm the only one who hates the Lannisters. I think once I hate a character it's hard for me to like them (Jaime for example)."Ser Jaime?
To me, he was the most despicable creature too, but in the first book. All shining, gloating, wealthy, arrogant and jesting despite lacking honor. But he actually is a perfect example of how we make ourselves feel about others because of what we've heard. Ned and Robert help made me (or us) believe so. It was all merely a mask. He bore a blot on himself for saving the frigging lives of the ungrateful who branded him 'Kingslayer'. He doesn't deserve contempt. That's my view. :)
Agreed Jamie has evolved but let's not make him a saint. While in the the treasonous act of having sex with the Queen while the King was hunting he flung a boy to what he hoped would be his death. Oh how the mighty have fallen...I like him but I if anyone wants to hate him you have good reason.
Kshitij wrote: "Catherine wrote: "Lol looks like I'm the only one who hates the Lannisters. I think once I hate a character it's hard for me to like them (Jaime for example)."
Ser Jaime?
To me, he was the most de..."
I've only read half way up to book 3 (Steel and Snow). I might start liking him and understanding him.
There are always more evil people coming along that we are going to hate as much as the person before. George RR Martin makes you hate them one moment, then love them the next (or vice versa).
Ser Jaime?
To me, he was the most de..."
I've only read half way up to book 3 (Steel and Snow). I might start liking him and understanding him.
There are always more evil people coming along that we are going to hate as much as the person before. George RR Martin makes you hate them one moment, then love them the next (or vice versa).
Jolene wrote: "Agreed Jamie has evolved but let's not make him a saint. While in the the treasonous act of having sex with the Queen while the King was hunting he flung a boy to what he hoped would be his death. ..."
Thank you. I feel like I've been ganged up on just because I don't like a fictional character.
And that part where he threw Bran of the building cause he was having sex with his sister, that's when I really started to hate him, not because he is a kingslayer.
Thank you. I feel like I've been ganged up on just because I don't like a fictional character.
And that part where he threw Bran of the building cause he was having sex with his sister, that's when I really started to hate him, not because he is a kingslayer.
Oops forgot to mention that so important part about the incest. These characters are multi-dimensional and we see growth good and bad in all of them. Me I can't stand Sansa.
Jolene wrote: "Agreed Jamie has evolved but let's not make him a saint. While in the the treasonous act of having sex with the Queen while the King was hunting he flung a boy to what he hoped would be his death. ..."Jaime, a saint? Nah. Yes flinging Bran out of the window, was a vile act on his part. For me, it's not too big a reason to hate him. Jaime is a truly a complex character I think, not everyone can like him.
Catherine wrote: "Jolene wrote: "Agreed Jamie has evolved but let's not make him a saint. While in the the treasonous act of having sex with the Queen while the King was hunting he flung a boy to what he hoped would..."Oh, I beg your pardon if I made you feel so. You're totally free to like or hate any fictional character. I was just putting my view there about him.
Kshitij wrote: "Catherine wrote: "Jolene wrote: "Agreed Jamie has evolved but let's not make him a saint. While in the the treasonous act of having sex with the Queen while the King was hunting he flung a boy to w..."
That's ok. I understand where everyone who likes him is coming from, I just (at the moment) can't seem to like him. There is something about him that makes me want to punch him in the face lol.
I don't like Catelyn either and a lot of people like her.
Like Clint Eastwood says: "Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one" lol.
That's ok. I understand where everyone who likes him is coming from, I just (at the moment) can't seem to like him. There is something about him that makes me want to punch him in the face lol.
I don't like Catelyn either and a lot of people like her.
Like Clint Eastwood says: "Opinions are like assholes, everyones got one" lol.
Actually, I hope Bran rides in on Hodor's back and chops Jaime's head off. My point was that I don't dislike the Lannisters as a whole...
Looking at the Jamie character I see a very twisted path - I hated him at first I don't mind admitting - I mean King killing, smug, sister lover, child launching from tower son of a she dog. However he is a son of twisted man, manipulated by his sister, love for a brother he is probably ashamed of and forced into a 'Golden Knight ofthe Realm', does he have any control over his life? I think the ****spoiler alert***** hand chopping off/meeting with Bree has shown him a new way he could live. I sort of see him as 'what would have happened to Sam Tarly' both sons of very strong men who wanted them to lives the Father's way? Anyways I'd be sad if he was killed off, I kind of like him now.
I hated Jamie after reading the first two books in the series, however, once he is knocked down a few pegs, and sees how a true knight, Bree, acts we see a changed, improved Jamie who is actually quite like able.
I still can't help but wish that Cersei had been the one that actually tried to kill Bran, or that at least she had told Jamie not to do it...OR at the very least she hadn't told him NOT to do it! I want to love Jamie more than I'm able to, just because I can't get over him doing that. I also don't remember him feeling any remorse or realizing how horrible it was...does he ever think/say anything like that?
Patchface 'I know oh oh oh' wears very thin after a few pages.
For me it's a tie between Alister Thorne and Janos S... I can't remember the spelling of his surname sorry. I am not a violent man but I want to kill them myself when I am reading about them. One of my favorite parts of the series is when Jon beheads Alister. Love your work "Lord Snow"!
Certain hated characters have already died, so the intensity of my hatred has diminished somewhat.Of those still alive at this time, it's Ramsey Snow for me. Hands down. I hate him with the fire of a thousand suns and will celebrate when he finally gets his comeuppance (please, please let this happen!).
Oh yeah I forgot about Ramsay Snow/Bolton. He's impossible to like! I guess he doesn't stand out as much because he is overtly a lunatic with a few screws loose. The two I mentioned (Jonas and Thorne) pretend to me normal, "good" people, but are slimy, self centered wankers :-)
Walder Frey for what he did to Robb Stark :(Also hate Joffery. If he was more inbred he'd be a sandwich.
Didn't really like Catelyn either as she betrayed her son and hated/excluded Jon Snow.
Daenerys because she doesn't think about her actions and consequences, and is she ever going to go to westeros? like seriously come on daenerys, anyway i hope she doesn't because she will be a shitty ruler. If it wasn't because her dragons i would skip a lot of her chapters
Ramsay Bolton... or should I say Snow. Hate this character with a burning passion. I think I hate him even more than Joffery, concerning the age aspect. I think a lot of people forget that Joffery is technically a child, being younger than 18 years of age. Plus, factors such as inbreeding, lack of a father figure, and being raised by a dysfunctional mother (all of which were not his fault) contributed to him developing into the cruel king he was.
You can also argue the same for Ramsay (being raised by Roose Bolton), but I still feel that Ramsay is just innately wicked and psychopathic.
You can also argue the same for Ramsay (being raised by Roose Bolton), but I still feel that Ramsay is just innately wicked and psychopathic.
Meryn Trant. I want him to have the most agonizingly slow and painful death possible. Man I hate that fucker.
Joffrey. He starts off very spoiled and obnoxious, basically a Draco Malfoy alike(IKO this came first) I've seen a lot of them nothing special. Then when ascends to power he became for a time the most detestable villain I've ever read about. The way he abuses Sansa is just sickening. Every time I like he's reached the pinnacle he gets even worse. There are other bad guys who do worse things than Joffery, such as Ser Greggor. But what makes Joffery so loathing is by how much he enjoys causing misery to others. Greggor is just a big brute who does what he wants and doesn't give it a second thought. For a time he was my most hated character, on that I never would have thought to be topped. That is until Dance With Dragons came out and we really got a good look at the pathetic excuse for a human being that is Ramsay Snow. I got to give Martin credit. Topping Joffery is no easy task. I've never read about a character more foul than Ramsay Snow. The dictionary can just insert his name and you would have a complete and accurate definition of the word. Every time I read about this guy it makes me want to take a bath. I thought Joffery was bad, but this guy put Joffery to shame. If he dies easy, I'm going to cry afoul. After what that poor girl had to go through he deserves at least a flaying or a burning.
Little Finger- I can't wait for this conniving schemer to receive his just reward.Jamie- Lets not forget this individual is as vile as they come. First, incest with his sister. Second, he pushed a child from a window to what he thought would be his death. Third, he strangled a young Lannister man just to get a chance at escape from Robs camp prison.
Now people like him? Come on, the only reason he changed is because he lost his hand, his livelihood and identity. Because of this his self reflection came about.
Never liked him in the books, however he reminds me of Dennis Leary for some reason in the HBO series.
Cersie,Ramsey,Roose, all the Freys, The Mountain, and Sansa. Oh and any surviving members of The Mountains crew. Oh I forgot our boy Reek. Can we put this letch out of his misery already.
At this point it might be easier to ask which of the characters do we still enjoy and which are becoming stagnant and drawn out.
I hated Shae when she betrayed Tyrion in his trial. Also hated Tywin.
So glad Tyrion took care of both of them.
You know what I don't understand? When Daenerys makes mistakes it's because she's a 'child' but when Sansa makes a mistake (and remember she is younger than Daenerys) everyone instantly hates her. Sansa wanted to marry Joffrey and therefore didn't want to leave Kingslanding so she told Cersei. Daenerys saw Drogo injured but she couldn't wait for a normal healer to come so she let Mirri Maaz Duur heal Drogo. Ned Stark was put in the Black Cells for saying that Joffrey, Mrycella and Tommen were bastards. You can't blame Sansa for that. You can blame Daenerys for Drogos death though. Long story short, Sansa isn't the only stupid naive character. POSSIBLE SPOILERS IF YOU HAVENT READ A STORM OF SWORDS OR ANY OF THE BOOKS AFTER IT: Sansa also helped to poison Joffrey even if she wasn't aware of it. The only good things Daenerys has done was to say yes to Viserys death (but that was kind of kinslaying) and liberate slaves from Astapor, Yunkai and Meereen. But we know how bad that turned out to be.
I hated Joffrey but thank God he's dead. Man I loved the Starks of Winterfell but the douche bag and Tywin killed 'em. I also hate Cercei, simply because... she's a whore -.- it makes me feel sorry for Jaime though, the same sentence that goes through his mind "...she's been fucking Lancel and Ketleback for all I know" Although I feel a bit of compassion when she's shown naked to everyone. That's tough.
Well, there's a whole lot of characters that I dislike, and for entirely different reasons. First, it's impossible to get around Joffrey, Walder Frey and Ramsay Bolton, for obvious reasons. I also dislike Sansa because she seems to never grow up, despite all that has happened to her. Of course, I also feel sorry for her, and I hope her character will improve after her being tutored by Littlefinger.Then there's Lysa Arryn, Loras Tyrell, Theon Greyjoy, Alliser Thorne... The list could go on for quite a few lines, but then again, I believe that these characters which I dislike are also necessary ingredients to ensure the diversity of the story, and I do enjoy reading about them, even though they sometimes disgust me :P
Yasmin wrote: "You know what I don't understand? When Daenerys makes mistakes it's because she's a 'child' but when Sansa makes a mistake (and remember she is younger than Daenerys) everyone instantly hates her. ..."easy friend... i know the feels. that's exactly why Dany wasn't really in my circle of favorite characters. she keeps making stupid decision after the other all because she is YOUNG. wth, right?!
Walder Frey and Craster are both vile for similar reasons: sleazy old evil men.
Ned may have loved Jon, but not enough to sit him at the table when the King comes a-callin'. Anyways, Jon forsakes the woman he loves to go back to said den of rapists/murderers. That's when he lost me. The Wildlings are so much cooler then the Night's Watch...