Amazon Kindle discussion
Who reads independent authors? Why or why not?
I read them BUT one of my concerns I have found is that sometimes such books are not well edited, which I find very frustrating
Since getting my Kindle, I have read mainly self-published authors. Their ideas are fresh and the writing is sometimes grittier! I loved
,
,
and
, just to name a few! I like to see who and what else is out there. I'm actually reading a free e-book called
and it's also very interesting!!
Yes, I think this is a very good point! I have paid to have a professional editor edit my work, but I have noticed the majority of people have not. Good point Terri!Elle
Those look great. I to love Amanda Hocking. Thanks for the recommendations Melissa.Elle
Editing doesn't get in my way. There are some books where I can still easily read through the not so great editing, it doesn't mess up the flow for me. if it is so bad that my sentences get all jumbled, I may stop. But so far, I have'nt had to many problems with editing. Maybe some punctuation and "there, instead of "their" but I get the jist, and keep on reading!
I am a little more hesitant now than I was when I first got my Kindle. I have found so many that just had no point. I think the writers were trying to go for the independent thing and break away from having a plot; I don't know. Then I had a few where I had some real problems with the lack of editing. If someone still has revisions to make, I appreciate it if they say it is an ARC copy. On the otherhand, for all of those I have read 4 or 5 recently that were excellent books! I just finished "The Door to Canellin" and it probably is one of the best books I've read in 2011 and I have read a LOT of books! After an author is kind enough to give me a book I feel terrible giving it a poor review! That's my biggest problem. With something like Goodreads First Reads Giveaways I can be more honest because it feels more anonymous.
I read a lot of Indie authors, and I don't have any major negatives about most of the books I've read. I did read one that had a lot of grammar/punctuation errors and I contacted the author to tell him about it.I subscribe to Red Adept's blog and she reviews mostly Indie books. I really rely on her (and her staff) to let me know which books are really good. I also get recommendations from here, from Facebook, from Kindleboards, and from the Amazon Kindle Community. I even have a Collection on my Kindle called "Recommended Indies." I have to admit almost every time I buy an Indie book it is from a recommendation, I don't just choose at random.
So authors: word of mouth works!! Get your books out there so friends can tell friends about them.
Patricia wrote: "I read a lot of Indie authors, and I don't have any major negatives about most of the books I've read. I did read one that had a lot of grammar/punctuation errors and I contacted the author to tel..."Great advice Patricia, thank you!
Elle
I'm going to self-publish and I get frustrated at the errors that I see in some self-published books. Sometimes it's something really small and I can overlook that, especially when the story it happened in was really excellent in every other way (Sessha Batto's Concealed in Shadow). But at other times the writing isn't as tight as it could be and it's annoying because I just want the story to move on and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I have some tremendously picky beta readers who are a godsend, as well as my saint of a critique partner, rather than pay an editor. I trust my betas and my CP, all of whom are huge readers and have been throughout their lives, to be more honest with me than someone I'm paying.
Anne-Mhairi wrote: "I'm going to self-publish and I get frustrated at the errors that I see in some self-published books. Sometimes it's something really small and I can overlook that, especially when the story it hap..."Wow you sound really lucky to have such great reader, I wish that was the norm instead of the exception. Good luck with your new book!
Elle
Mod
While I don't expect pieces to be perfect, I do expect at least some effort to correct their grammar and spelling. I generally won't purchase any self-published books unless they're recommended to me by someone I know and trust.
I do! Mostly because I am one, lol, so I'm more likely to give them a chance. Besides, I started out as an indie filmmaker and I've certainly seen some true gems come out of that world. (And yes, some stinkers...)The beauty of the indie author is the sample! If it's rife with typos and bad writing, I don't have to go any further. I'm picky about what I read, so I use samples even for mainstream books.
@ Anne-Mhairi- I had a dozen beta readers and paid for two editing passes and a proofreading pass. It's up to us to elevate the standard of indie-publishing. Sounds like you agree!
I'm with Ralph, I'm sad to say. When I first got my Kindle I tried a few self-pubbed books, and was sorely disappointed. Of 5 I tried, I only had one that I thought was really worthy to be published. No copy editing, no editor (which are not the same thing) are unfortunately the norm.There are so many other books that I am eager to read that I just don't see the point of wasting my time and money. If a friend were to convince me, though, I'd give it a try again.
I read very few and then only if they are recommended to me by friends here on goodreads...the quickest way for an author to end on my do-not-read list is to solict me for a review on my blog, or promote their books in inappropriate placesi'm reading one right now One, Two ... He is coming for you - i'm enjoying it, but because it was a self-pub and translate from danish, it def. needs some work - that being said, i'll probably pick up the next one by the author still because it was intriguing
@Dee:I'm confused: Why does someone soliciting for a review on your blog put them on a do-not-read list? Does your blog not focus on book reviews? Or does your review policy state that you don't accept self-pubbed?
I researched lots of blogs and contacted those that focused on YA (which is what my novel is) and were open to self-published e-books. So far it's worked out well--don't think I've ticked anyone off, lol.
Christina you mentioned samples, do you mean on Amazon or do you get them from authors who ask for reviews on here. I have started getting samples from Amazon when I am interested in a book and I really like that. I still want to be supportive of self published authors but I think sometimes some authors just think they don't need the editing. I also think that sometimes trying to edit your work yourself is a bad move. If I were self-publishing I think I would pay to have a professional edit it for me. I have noticed too that a few get family members to edit and that is not the same.
Ever since I got my Kindle (and even before using the Kindle app) I read indie books almost exclusively. Of course I may be biased, supporting indie authors like myself, but I’ve been very fortunate that a majority of the indie books I’ve read have all been great and those authors have taken the time to have their books edited. The trick is to start off with one or two indie authors you enjoyed and see what’s on their bookshelves (i.e. recommendations). I usually read all reviews, check the author’s website and see who else is reading it before I buy it.
Most indie authors have the advantage of releasing more books a year versus a traditionally pubbed author, therefore I generally stick to those authors I already enjoy (because they have lots of new releases) And for every bad indie book I’ve read (not many), there has equally been a traditionally published book that lacked in editing.
@ Karen: I meant samples from Amazon. If I see something that strikes my fancy I'll download a sample and give it a try. For that reason I allowed the first 30% of my novel to be sampled. If a person gets through the first 1/3 of my novel and wants more, then it's going to be worth the $2.99.I come from a screenwriting background which means that although I'm a new author, I'm not new to writing. I am a firm believer in rewriting and I completely agree about editing and proofreading. I had a friend who works in television development read my first draft to help me crystalize my plot, then I paid for editing passes on drafts 2 and 3, as well as a proofreading pass for the final draft. That was the draft I gave to a dozen beta readers, who, of course, spotted a few more errors.
Sadly, even after all of that, there were a few mistakes (including some formatting errors even though I paid a professional e-book formatter) that made their way into the first edition I uploaded to Amazon and Smashwords. It took a couple of versions over the course of a few weeks before I worked all the kinks out.
It was a frustrating process, but I'm glad I jumped though all those hoops. I want to be a self-published author who represents the best aspects of being indie, which is my goal in filmmaking, as well.
Thanks everyone, for your honest answers!
Elle wrote: "Anne-Mhairi wrote: "I'm going to self-publish and I get frustrated at the errors that I see in some self-published books. Sometimes it's something really small and I can overlook that, especially w..."It took me a couple of tries to find the good readers. The first lot leapt on the opportunity to beta read, but only two out eleven(!) have actually contacted me since to give feedback (two and a half months later). Now I've got two supremely picky readers and my critique partner and I think that will work far better!
Christina wrote: "@ Anne-Mhairi- I had a dozen beta readers and paid for two editing passes and a proofreading pass. It's up to us to elevate the standard of indie-publishing. Sounds like you agree!"I absolutely agree. I hate the idea that someone might pick up my book, only to abandon it because of spelling errors. I'm pretty sure no one's suddenly turned up alive when you definitely killed them in an earlier chapter, but all the bases need to be covered :D
Dee wrote: "I read very few and then only if they are recommended to me by friends here on goodreads...the quickest way for an author to end on my do-not-read list is to solict me for a review on my blog, or p..."If it's been translated then it's possible the translation isn't up to par, rather than the original writing. There's no way of knowing. I hear you on soliciting reviews. It's one thing if you regularly review books and have a review policy, etc, but quite another if someone just stalks you with the goal of having you review their book. There's a fine line. Networking is one thing, but in your face pushiness is quite another. And of course, the line is in a different place for everyone!
Christina wrote: "@ Karen: I meant samples from Amazon. If I see something that strikes my fancy I'll download a sample and give it a try. For that reason I allowed the first 30% of my novel to be sampled. If a pers..."I think it's almost a guarantee that there will be some small errors in every book. As we all know, even traditionally published books have errors and they've been combed through by a dozen different people by the time they reach the shelves. All we can do is make the utmost effort to catch as many of them as possible. Go indies!
And I tend to follow authors I like, too. When you find a good one, whether indie or trad, they're worth sticking with. As other people have pointed out, a word of mouth recommendation will be enough for most people to give a particular indie author a chance. It's up to us as authors to not waste that chance :)
I review for fun and I keep a blog because occasionally, i'll do a netgalley review and a blog is required...I don't have an official review policy because its mostly in fun for me...but I don't like anyone pushing their books on me and that has happenedChristina wrote: "@Dee:
I'm confused: Why does someone soliciting for a review on your blog put them on a do-not-read list? Does your blog not focus on book reviews? Or does your review policy state that you don't ..."
Of my last few books, a couple of them were self-published, but they were self-published by established authors who either wanted to keep the rights to these titles, or it was just short fiction. I agree that the self-publishing system is both a blessing and a curse. It is great because a lot of people are able to get their stories out there without having to wait for the big publishing houses. On the other hand, there are some people who need to really refine their craft before putting their work out for public consumption.
Dee wrote: "I review for fun and I keep a blog because occasionally, i'll do a netgalley review and a blog is required...I don't have an official review policy because its mostly in fun for me...but I don't li..."There's nothing worse than people pushing their books, but perhaps you may want to have a policy to inform writers that you don't accept unsoliticed requests for reviews. I know I always check review blogs for exactly that type of information (do they accept requests, only traditional published, indie welcome, etc.)....I don't want to be one of the "pushy" ones :)
A lot of writers rely on book bloggers to spread word of mouth and if your blog runs a bit differently than others, perhaps it would benefit all parties involved if they knew your stance on submitting requests.
the info about my blog isn't listed in any of the databases (that I know of) - the only people who have it are netgalley and friends on GR...but i'll think about putting something up...case in point - a few months ago one of my groups was doing a challenge that involved reading a erotic romance - I told the mod and put it in the help thread that if people wanted recommendations to let me know...all of the sudden within a day of that, I got 5 soliciations to review books...every single one of those authors went on my never buy list
Dee wrote: "the info about my blog isn't listed in any of the databases (that I know of) - the only people who have it are netgalley and friends on GR...but i'll think about putting something up...case in ..."
I don't think your blog needs to be listed on any directory...once it's live it's out there for anyone to see!
I can totally see how something like that can be a major drag, especially if you review for fun and it's your choice as to what books to read/review/etc. But we writers won't know unless you tell us :)
Christina wrote: "I do! Mostly because I am one, lol, so I'm more likely to give them a chance. Besides, I started out as an indie filmmaker and I've certainly seen some true gems come out of that world. (And yes, s..."@Christina - hey, you and I have almost the same background (acting, screenwriting, indie filmmaking) FUNNY! I agree with you on the sample pages though... I download a lot of samples and if I can't get through the first couple of pages, I certainly know I'm not going to make it far into the book, so I don't buy. 'Course, the same goes for traditionally published books, in my case.
I also use multiple story editors, betas & paid proofreading. I want to put out the best work possible. Sure a publisher/agent would probably give more notes, but I think you can also work a story to death and ruin it with too many "cooks"!
Meghan
I loved Amanda Hocking's
trilogy, Gwenn Wright's
to name a few.As to why I read indie authors? They write books. That's it. If a book sounds interesting, and it gets good reviews, I read it.
I read a lot of indie authors (I also write a review blog that mainly features indies.)What I've found is that reading indies can be an all or nothing experience. When I like an indie book, I *really* like it, but when I don't, I really don't. If I don't like a book, I'll simply not finish it.
I'm published traditionally as well as as an indie. I used to edit my own work (since I teach English grammar, lol), but for my upcoming novel, I hired an outside editor, and *boy* were my eyes opened. My editor was wonderful and really helped me.
When I do my own editing, I know I've had one or two typo's slip by me, but then again, I've seen professionally pubbed books with the same problem.
Michelle wrote: "I read a lot of indie authors (I also write a review blog that mainly features indies.)What I've found is that reading indies can be an all or nothing experience. When I like an indie book, I *..."
Just checked out your blog. Love it :)
Like Ralph, I find many indie authors lacking, particularly in comparison to traditionally published authors. My favorite book of the year was an indie (The Cranberry Hush: A Novel), but I had to wade through about 20 samples and books before I found a passable indie read. My odds of finding a book I'll enjoy are much higher with traditionally published authors, so I stick with them.
Ralph wrote: "I am very reluctant to purchase any books by self-published authors. After reading quite a few self-published pieces, I am absolutely appalled at the lack of effort a lot of authors put into their ..."I encourage people to use the free sample feature. A reader can tell pretty quickly if a novel's been polished.I spent over $2,000 on 2 professional editors, so THE TRAZ shines! And...judging by the 5-star reviews, the plot and characters aren't bad, either.
Just checked out your blog. Love it :) Thanks, Claudia :)
I try to since I am one. But I agree with some of the other comments- sometimes the improper formatting gets to me. However, I do like to support the independent authors and I hope that other independent authors support me.
Just asking because I'm new to the group -- are authors allowed to advertise in threads like this one?
M.A. wrote: "Like a few others who have posted here, while I chose to indie publish I'm by no means a newbie -- I've been writing professionally for 15 years in the film industry -- and so it's frustrating to b..."You can try bribing the moderator with a free book or something. lol
Esse: What do you consider "advertising"? If it's the book links, why so? I consider advertising to be "Hey, here's my book and this is the synopsis, and it's only $x.xx so please check it out" as advertising. But should I not be allowed to take part in a conversation that's relevant to my issues or interests and punctuate with my book link? After all, readers say over and over again, "We want to connect with our authors," but if you don't know that someone is an author how can you connect with them? I've also, as noted earlier, had my posts moved even where I didn't add my book link or any advertising content. This is the paradox and the predicament for the GR indie author.
Ralph wrote: "I am very reluctant to purchase any books by self-published authors. After reading quite a few self-published pieces, I am absolutely appalled at the lack of effort a lot of authors put into their ..."Absolutely. No one should have to put up with unreadable text that hasn't been given the care or attention it deserves. Each indie author has to prove him or herself individually, and really it's no different than traditionally published books. I loved "The Windup Girl," but the text was full of typos. Then there are indie books that are spotless. It's hard to know until you open it.
Everyone should make full use of the sample to get a sense of what they're looking at. There are lots of great books in the indie world, and once you find one you like it really won't matter how it's been published. You'll know who has put care into their writing and pass by those who haven't without a second thought. And of course all of this is subjective. Art resonates differently with different people. Just keep your ears open to friends about the next great book, and eventually you'll find it.
M.A. wrote: "Esse: What do you consider "advertising"?"To me, punctuating your posts with a link to your book constitutes advertising. However, as I said, I'm new to the group and am not familiar with the nuances of the rules. I wasn't asking as an attack, but rather as a point of clarification.
A lot of what I read lately is indie-produced. I've picked up some great books, particularly from Scott Nicholson. Well edited, brilliant stuff!
Esse - I was starting to feel the same way and was going to say something but you beat me to itEsse wrote: "M.A. wrote: "Esse: What do you consider "advertising"?"
To me, punctuating your posts with a link to your book constitutes advertising. However, as I said, I'm new to the group and am not familiar..."
Claudia wrote: "Ever since I got my Kindle (and even before using the Kindle app) I read indie books almost exclusively. Of course I may be biased, supporting indie authors like myself, but I’ve been very fortunat..."That is so great. Sometimes I feel like indi authors don't read other indi authors. Love to see that you do!
Elle
One thing we have not touched on, and sadly I think happens more times then we would like to think, is that people are using self publishing as a get rich quick sceme. I know it sounds horrible to all of who are legitimate writers but with the rise of John Locke and Amanda Hocking, there are a lot of people out there just doing it to make money. I think that might be the reason some of us run across such bad books. It could also just be because no one has told them that writing might not be their thing. Any thoughts?
When I first got my Kindle I was really excited about all the independently-published books out there, and saw it as an opportunity to discover authors and books in the same way I've always gone about discovering music. This turned out to be a bit of a mistake on my part - I can listen to a song by a band I've never heard of and figure out pretty quickly whether it's for me or not. If it's not, no harm done. For whatever reason, I feel much more invested in even the worst books once I've started reading them, and am loath to put the things down until I've battled my way through to the bitter end, always hoping that things might get better even when they don't! I did get very put off of indie authors after my first few not-so-good experiences, but I feel bad about this as I know there are good indies out there. I know there are writers who do everything in their power to make sure that the book they put out there to the reading public (yes, even if they're giving it away for free or only charging 99 cents for it, or whatever) is absolutely as finished and polished and tight as it can be. But those aren't, for the most part, the ones I've encountered. I'd been reading the Kindle customer discussions on Amazon for quite a while before I finally shelled out the money to buy one (this was last spring, I think), and absolutely could not WAIT to get my hands on some of the highly-praised indie books I'd been reading about on the forum. Then I found myself very disillusioned, very quickly, when I found myself attempting to read these novels that had the beginnings of an idea for a good book but were nowhere near there yet. That's not to say the writers weren't talented or that they hadn't had good ideas, but more like... hmm, I'd say I mostly felt like I was reading something that would be pretty impressive if it was a homework assignment written by a teenager, but not something actually put out there as a finished product.
I love reading, and I really do want to support new and emerging writers, but... reading a book takes longer than listening to an MP3. It involves significant investment of my already limited time, even if I'm getting that book for free. If the author makes it clear that they're looking for beta readers and really want constructive criticism, then great. But if they're on the Amazon discussion boards saying 'buy my new book, only 99 cents!' and there are large numbers of other posters swearing that this is the best book they've read all year, then I'm going to be pretty disappointed when the story reads more like a first draft than a finished product. And don't even get me started on the writers who seem to think that it doesn't matter if their book is an ill-thought-out mess with more holes in the plot than a Swiss cheese, just so long as they label it as "young adult", as if their target readership won't know any better. That's just insulting.
This post is WAY too long and ranty, so my apologies! But I'll end by saying... that's how I've ended up (back) on Goodreads. I joined last year, but didn't quite spot the full potential of the place at the time! But I found it quite hard to find genuine recommendations on Amazon (it's not easy to trust reviews when every single indie book seems to attract glowing five-star reviews from every reader) and finally figured out that this site is an amazing resource for finding titles that are likely to appeal to me based on the reading habits of other people with similar tastes!
So, long story short... I got put off of indie authors pretty early on, but do feel like I've been doing them an injustice. I'm hoping I can find more indies that I won't be disappointed in, as I really do want to discover NEW stuff and support new writers, rather than just sticking to my tried-and-tested old reliables like a safety blanket!
Also... hello, I've been a member of this group since last year, but this is my first post...! (And editing to add... good grief, it was even longer than I thought - huge apologies, all!!)
Mod
I have read a number of books by independent authors since joining Goodreads and kindleboards.comWhat I won't do is read something by an independent author who doesn't take the time to read the group rules before joining, posting "HEY READ MY BOOK" and disappearing.
I read a lot (well over 100 books per year). Of that, a fair number are ARCs, many of which are not coming from the major publishing houses.
I agree with a lot of the above comments ... poor editing shows!! And a spellchecker is NOT an editor.
I contributed to the discussion, suggesting readers use the free sample to determine if an indie book is well-written. I also noted that some indie authors such as myself are diligent in investing in editorial services. I left the link to my book so you could see for yourselves that I'm not lying about that. I wasn't suggesting you buy THE TRAZ, just that you could download the free sample.Cheers!
[I'd likely be in big trouble if I posted that link here again, eh?)
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Elle