Creative Reviews discussion
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To Rate Or Not To Rate [it as a One-Star]?
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Cambria
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Jul 03, 2011 11:22AM
Why thank you, Steve.....I am pretty new to reviewing but I do my best....and I learned most of it all from Amy
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Good convo, although I'm on a project and can't stop here for long. Personally, if I'm going to rate below a 3, I send the review to the author first, asking if they want me to post it or not. What is a one-star for me? A book so bad that I can't even finish it, and pitch the darn thing across the room in a fit of pique ... When a write a review, I always TRY to find something positive to say, and always try to explain exactly why I didn't like it. Most authors seem to appreciate constructive criticism. What drives me nuts is when people rate my reviews on Amazon as unhelpful just because they don't agree with them. I've written some reviews that I thought were rather good and had several "unhelpful" reviews because I went against the common grain of the more popular reviews. *shrug* That bother anyone else?
OK, back to my project!
Amy wrote: "I don't judge the books differently if they come from an indie or trad publisher, I just watch when I may post the review. I will always give my true opinion of the book."
I absolutely agree with your approach Amy - it's a good balance, sensitive but objective, which I think is the whole point of reviewing things.
I'm about to start self-publishing and I know that I will take it hard if I get a bad review. That said, I want to be a good writer and if someone feels that I haven't written something good, I would prefer to try and understand that person's opinion to see if they've picked up on an area I can work on or if it's just a matter of taste.
I absolutely agree with your approach Amy - it's a good balance, sensitive but objective, which I think is the whole point of reviewing things.
I'm about to start self-publishing and I know that I will take it hard if I get a bad review. That said, I want to be a good writer and if someone feels that I haven't written something good, I would prefer to try and understand that person's opinion to see if they've picked up on an area I can work on or if it's just a matter of taste.
i do as well amy.I don't change my reviews based on whether they are indie or traditionally i still judge them exactly the same
I posted a lot of my opinion about positive/negative review in Kat's topic about ethics. I do want to share that I recently read a book that was pretty full of errors and needed some editing. Granted, it is still in the publishing phase, so... I emailed the author some questions and my review personally. She reminded me that it had not been published yet, she is working on it, and she will incorporate my suggestions in her editing.
So, a "negative" review can actually be constructive. I have not posted my review on my blog or anywhere else yet. And when/if I do, I will be SURE to point out that I read and reviewed it while it was an unfinished product.
As a matter of fact, there have been two books that this has happened with recently--one that I actually went through and officially proofed for the author so she would know specifically what I found as I was reading.
I do rate the books I read, but I have never rated anything below three stars. I have never found anything that I just could not read or that I downright hated.
I always try to put myself in the author's shoes. No one wants to be blasted and made to feel like a complete fool...so I am kind in my reviews. But, I know that if it were my writing, I would want someone to very politely point out what is wrong so I have a chance to fix it. If I can, I will always try to contact the author prior to posting my review if it looks like there is going to be more negative than positive--to give them a chance to react and defend if they need to ;-).
Blah, blah, blah... I'll shut up now! ;-)
I've done a few review trades as an author, but I didn't feel comfortable with it so I've stopped unless someone approaches me individually and asks for a trade. It just felt wrong, or as if I couldn't be honest if they had already given me a good review. Then I'd feel awful if I gave a bad review. So now I'll respond to a review request if the book looks like something I'd like, but I've never asked them to review my book in exchange. I've found that whenever I've asked for reviews on a 'requesting reviews' thread and writers respond, they always ask if I'll review their book in exchange. I'm too nice to say no, so I've stopped asking for reviews on the review threads unless I'm pretty sure the reviewer is JUST a reviewer. I know review trading works great for some people, but I found it uncomfortable.
I must admit that at the moment I simply don't have time to read enough for doing reviews apart from when the trains break down again and I'm stuck somewhere with nothing else to do. I ask specific people for reviews and am happy for them to turn me down if they're after a review trade, but I do tend to be reading indie books as far as I'm reading anything at the moment, so I do put up the odd indie review unasked. Just can't really commit to stuff - and as an author I know just how frustrating when someone says "I'll review it soon" and than doesn't.
@JA--yes, I'm very busy and also slow to review. But I have had people offer to review my book, and I sent it to them, and they never reviewed it. That's always frustrating. But I understand b/c I don't get time to sit down and read that often. Or maybe they just hated the book and didn't want to slam me!
I am stressing about the length of my to-review list. I WILL read everything on the list and I WILL review it...or at least contact the author if I feel like I can't... I just don't know exactly WHEN I will get it done. It seems like I get further and further behind every day! Still trying to get accustomed and balance everything out...
Yes, and it does feel so rude to go and say "OI! where's me review?!";oD
So unless I'm in doubts as to whether I sent them the book in the first place, I don't tend to prod people unless they've previously told me to come back and check...
JAC
Cassie wrote: "I am stressing about the length of my to-review list. I WILL read everything on the list and I WILL review it...or at least contact the author if I feel like I can't... I just don't know exactly ..."I understand! I took about 8 books to review at once. Turns out, I have NO time! But I do read bits here and there.
Poor Cassie! If in doubt, put a parag at the top of your To-Review List page (if you have one, and if you don't it's a useful thing to have) saying you're running behind at the moment but to watch this space. Most sensible authors don't mind so long as they think you haven't forgotten them!!
JAC
I try to warn people up front that I have a long list and it'll be awhile before I get to theirs. I imagine it is frustrating to an author to have someone offer a review and then wait ... and wait ... and wait ... 'swhy I try to read as much as I can as fast as I can and write the reviews as soon as I finish the book.
Heheheh anyone who offers reviews in an arena with indie authors in had better have a pencil and paper ready, cause you'll have a list a mile long in twenty minutes flat!(I speak as one who is generally in there in the first four or five, natch....)Know what you mean though, Canary; I finished a book about 2 weeks back and haven't had time to review it yet. Admitted, my excuse is house-moving but still a fortnight feels a bit rude. Fortunately I wasn't asked to review it, but I am doing because I know how valuable reviews are to the indie author, good or bad. Just getting your name out there takes SOOOOO much time.
Talking of which I have to get up in 4h. Damn you, Goodreads! You keep me chatting into many a late night....
Oooh, and happy Independence Day to you American types, when it gets here unless it already has (i lose track of which way the time diff goes but it's 4mins to midnight on 3rd here)
Evening all!
JAC
It's only 7:30 here in the East Coast of the U.S., so we've a bit to go before the 4th. But thanks! :-)
Canary wrote: "For me, the reading is the easy part. It's pulling my thoughts together for a review that gets me behind schedule! At the moment, I have...seven books I've read waiting for their review."
Wow, I could never do that! If I don't review a book before reading a new one, I forget too much of what I wanted to say. I usually mentally write my review as I'm reading, and when I'm done, all I have to do is gather my thoughts. Of course, I'm not a professional reviewer, so if it's not a perfect review, I'm not too upset.
Plus, the Goodreads status updates help me keep notes on what I think as I read. They are very helpful to me in my reviews. Esp. if I fall behind for some reason and don't get to review the book until several weeks after I finish it.
I'm the same way, Lena - I have several books I was supposed to review for the Amazon Vine program, but I didn't do one right away, and now I'm going to have to re-read the bloody things if I want to post a coherent review, b/c I've simply forgotten most of what each was about. Then again, my memory is a hash, so *grin* I'm trying to do better!
OCD Kay =P wrote: "i do as well amy.I don't change my reviews based on whether they are indie or traditionally i still judge them exactly the same"
me too!
I try to get to my review books quickly...there is one I have just started it took me a month to get to it and I feel super bad. I never want to make a writer wait but I have been sooo bogged down. i have my own edits (which i just finished) the whole hacker mess (which took a whole week from me) and the start and prep for JournalJabber and I got my blog up and running....things will start cooling off now so hopefully i can get through these ones that have been waiting. I just never want anyone to feel like I don't respect them or the time they put into their work because i really do but I don't want to start a book that I know I cna't give my attention too b/c that seems unfair as well.
Well, Cambria, don't feel TOO bad - I currently have 53 books on my read/review pile (well, 51 are e-books, so e-pile) and I know I have at least two or three more on the way ... assuming two a day, which is my normal rate, it'll still take a month to get through them all ... plus I get editing projects in and those will take 2 - 4 days to get through, during which I can't read the books on the pile ... I'm not even counting the various free books I've picked up from Smashwords WITHOUT promising a review, but which I'll likely try to review simply because it only seems fair ... 0.0 So, you see, you're not so bad! :-)
This is an interesting topic for discussion, and to be honest I'm not even 100% sure how I feel about it. I definately think that if you're going to give 1 star, it better be absolutely horrendous. I also think that for a rating that low, it's nice to give the author a heads up, and as mentioned above let them chose to not have it posted (this is if they submitted it to you). On the other hand, I do think that readers deserve to know if a book is not worth reading and why the reviewer feels that way. There are a lot of Indie's out there that I speculate only have family/friends who have reviewed their novels b/c there are maybe 5 reviews and all of them are 5 stars, which is completely unrealistic, which irks me a bit.
Everyone seems to have similar thoughts here, though not all are expressing them the same way.Back in the days when I was an instructor in my chosen sport, we a system that we called "Kiss, Kick, Kiss". In other words, first, tell them something you liked about their effort (and there's always something), then about the thing you liked least. Continuing in that vein, the praise is constructive, and the criticism is sufficiently positive that it's not just a put-down. Someone who heeds the advice can then see what they need to work on.
Of course, there are those who believe their effort is unsurpassed and can't take any suggestions for improvement -- they're the ones who'll fall by the wayside. All of us should be able to accept suggestions.
Katy wrote: "Well, Cambria, don't feel TOO bad - I currently have 53 books on my read/review pile (well, 51 are e-books, so e-pile) and I know I have at least two or three more on the way ... assuming two a day..."oh wow. you make me look like a small timer! LOL. i only have about 5 books on my pile and I am sweating.... LOL
Go girl GO
@TM--I dont see why ppl have a problem with indies getting friends or family to read their books. If no one has ever heard of you, it's hard to get ppl to buy your books or know who you are. So far, my family has refused to read my book (they dont read fantasy) except for one sister, who gave it 4 stars. If I could convince some of my staunchly anti-fantasy friends to read my book, I'd be all over it. I don't see the problem, as long as they are giving honest reviews and not just saying "this is the best book EVER!" w/o even reading it. I dont personally know a single other person who has reviewed my book, but I'd take advantage if one of my friends offered to review it.Isn't it common business sense to start w/ the ppl you know?
LOL Stephen - oh yes, it doesn't take long to start accumulating them once you put yourself out there, if you are the sort who will read almost anything! X-D
don't worry, Stephen - you're in there. I received your book on 6/28; once I finish my editing project I'll be starting on books received 6/23. Canary has a good system, but I'd be horrible about remembering to contact people, so I have to just do it this way. I will get to you ASAP!
I used to review anything, but I've gotten picky after getting stuck trying to work through some books that were SO far from my comfort zone. Even as a picky reader, I have about 10 books in my Kindle waiting for a read, which will probably take me at least 3 months.
Lena--three months would be a record for me. I'm such a slow reader.
I read paperbacks pretty fast, but whenever I have time to get on the computer, my son is around so i'm only paying a little attention to what i'm doing. I can get online, but i require more attn for reading so it takes me forever to get time to sit down and read a book on the computer.
I look at solicited reviews as favors. When I say "solicited" I mean someone who asks for a copy to review or someone whom I ask for a review. Therefore, there is no time frame expectation for the review.No one is getting paid, the most the reviewer is getting is a no-charge copy. For an eBook, that costs the author exactly nothing.
There really shouldn't be an expectation of "when" the review gets done. People have lives to lead. I certainly would never hound a reviewer for a review that hasn't been published yet.
Demanding a "timely" review from a "volunteer" reviewer would just be rude.
Splitter
Lena wrote: "@TM--I dont see why ppl have a problem with indies getting friends or family to read their books. If no one has ever heard of you, it's hard to get ppl to buy your books or know who you are. So far..."I think the answer to your question, Lena, is "not really". Friends and family often find it hard to offer constructive criticism for fear of offending. Again, they often don't have the experience to tell you how to improve.
Other writers can often give you a better idea of what you need to improve -- hence the generally favoured idea of joining a writers' group.
Good luck -- just keep working on it!
You hit the nail on the head Phil! I definitely think that family and friends dont always know how to tell a writer ways to improve....they just dont have the experience. Good call.
I agree with C.S. and Phil. I like this discussion. Nobody's trashing anyone. It's quite intelligent, and I appreciate that.
I'm not talking about a draft. I'm talking about a book you've already published. I have a writers group that helps me improve. Once a book is published, it's not going to get much more improvement IMO. I'd never publish a book and then ask other writers to review it in order to give me writing tips. But that's just me.
Yes Mysti we r quite civilized! Crazy but civilized! :)
I think crazy people are the most civilized of all, if you ask me. Which you didn't. But I'll tell you anyway! ;-)
Shameless plug two, too - I also offer editing services. :-) I know there is little that frustrates me more than to read a poorly-edited book. It pulls you out of the story. This is especially annoying when it is coming from a major publishing house - I expect self-pubs and indie pubs to have some problems with editing, but a major publisher has no excuse not to provide decent editing services. Just my (less than humble) opinion :-)
Team? Feathers? Poach? Poached eggs? How about bacon? (mmmmmm, bacon ....) I'm confuzzled ... %-)~*tries to do the high five and misses terribly* My best friend spent countless hours in high school trying to teach me to do high fives, but my eye-hand coordination stinks ... :-)
I don't think I've ever read a book with zero errors, indie or major publisher. In fact, I recently read a book from a bestselling author that started one chapter with, "Be was waiting for you". It took me a little while to realize "be" was supposed to be "he", lol. Definitely pulled me out of the story. But unless there were errors on every page, I'd probably overlook it.Eyes on elbows, eh? Have to keep that tip in mind.
Lena wrote: "I'm not talking about a draft. I'm talking about a book you've already published. I have a writers group that helps me improve. Once a book is published, it's not going to get much more improvement..."You're right, Lena. Once you're published it's usually too late to get tips.
What I was saying was not about you specifically, but a lot of budding writers (and I was one) are so anxious to get into print they forget, until the first few rejections perhaps, that virtually no one produces polished prose at the first draft -- possibly not even the third or fourth.
That was the reason for my own reluctance to go down the self-publishing route -- if only I think it's good, chances are that's a good indication of its likely reception by the reading public.
Stephen wrote: "I edit, too, but up until now have done it for nothing or next to nothing, in order to help people, which I hate and won't do any more. Too much work to do for nothing."Editing is tons of work and you definitely deserve to get paid!
Katy wrote: "I think crazy people are the most civilized of all, if you ask me. Which you didn't. But I'll tell you anyway! ;-)"LOL
I'll add a plug, because I can. :)Our moderator Amy is a professional editor and I think that she is really awesome at what she does...I have seen her work.
@Phil--I didnt actually think you were talking about me, and my mini-rant was more directed at indie authors who put out books w/ bad editing. The first self-pubbed book I bought was a disaster, and I think books like that give all indies a bad name. That's one reason readers are reluctant to put money on indies, b/c they are afraid the books are, well, steaming piles. There's a perception that self-pubbed books are just rejects from the major publishing houses. Sometimes they are. I won't lie, I tried to get an agent for a while. But even an indie should only put out work they are proud of, after many, many, MANY revisions. I wish the guy who wrote that first indie book I bought would hire me to edit. Or one of you guys. God knows he needed an editor. (God knows, i'm sure, but somehow HE didnt know).
I believe like anything to do with writing that reviews are subjective. I believe that most readers buying a book are a little nervous about buying a book that is all 5s because it could have padded reviews. It makes a better playing field to have reviews that make people think, not everyone will like my style of writing and that is OK. I am only looking for honesty, and that is as important to me as anything. I would hope that most people would not take offense because after all what we as reviewers do is offer an opinion. They are not a personal attack on the author, and again all opinions are subjective. I have seen numerous 1 star reviews that state the reviewer could not even finish the book and those are the ones that bother me. How do you review something you have not read. Just my opinion.
Well, Leslie, sometimes a book has such an execrable beginning, you can just tell that it is completely unreadable. If I get one of those, I always push as far as I can, until I get to a point where I can't stand it, and then I chuck it across the room, refusing to waste any more time on it. Those are my one-star books. If I can finish it, but think it was terrible, I give it 2 stars, because at least I could finish it. That's my thinking on the subject.
How would you recommend a person rate a book that is so bad, she can't even finish it? Should he just NOT rate? But then she isn't able to warn people about how bad it is.
It's a good question; what do y'all think?
I have 75ish books on my to-review list. And I get some manuscripts in here and there (I can do proofing and grammatical editing, but I'm not confident enough in myself yet to do content editing!)...If you REALLY have a deadline to get some reviews or feedback in OR if you want to schedule a feature on my blog, I will put you ahead of others on my list. I try to get to the reviews that I have been asked for or that I have asked for a free book to read. My "giveaway wins" are also on my list, but they are of the least priority. Manuscripts, features, deadlines, solicited, giveaways...in that order basically.
I try to review everything pretty much right after I read/watch it, but sometimes I wait a few days b/c I'm having brain overload or something...LOL... Then I'll spend a day just putting a bunch of reviews together and getting things done on the blog, etc. But, I do try to mentally get things together as I read. I'll even make a note here and there if it is really important. I'm thankful for the highlighting and comment function on my Kindle!
The more work I do on the computer, the easier it is for me to be distracted. Too many things I can do on here--like Creative Reviews! LOL Checking email, Facebook, proofing/editing, etc... It starts sucking up my reading time. If I just sit down with my Kindle or a paperback, I can zoom through my reading.
I really like Dad's...I mean Phil's suggestion of kiss, kill, kiss... I'm going to have to make sure I'm implementing that...although I always try to end my reviews on a positive note no matter what.
Mod
Our moderator Amy is a professional editor and I think that she is really awesome at what she does...I have seen her work."
You are always so sweet Cambria! And yes, editing is A LOT of work. Even the "easy" editing is still loads of work. And it seems we have quite a few other editors in the group! That is wonderful! There are more and more resources all the time for all of the indie authors out there!! :)
Katy wrote: "Well, Leslie, sometimes a book has such an execrable beginning, you can just tell that it is completely unreadable. If I get one of those, I always push as far as I can, until I get to a point whe..."If you really can't finish a book, I don't think you can rate it because, well, you didn't read the whole thing! I don't think you can post a comment without giving a rating, right? Do the 2 go hand in hand? I don't know, because I've always given a rating with my review. But if a book is so bad you couldn't read it, I think I'd kind of want to know before I shelled out the bucks myself, so not sure how you accomplish that.
Creative Reviews
Books mentioned in this topic
Smack (other topics)The River Within (other topics)
The River Within (other topics)
Girl in the Mirror (other topics)
