Martin, George R.R - A Clash of Kings (A Song of Ice and Fire, #2) buddy read start date July 5th 2011 - REVISIT JUNE 2017

[A Voracious Reader (a.k.a. Carol)]

Lisa Kay wrote: "@Carol
#27 - I don't trust them either!
#34 - That was a surprise, wasn't it! You think it is Magister Illyrio? Really? Wow!"

Yeah, I said it way back when we were trying to figure out who the guys were. I don't have anything else to confirm or deny it yet. Still waiting for that.

[A Voracious Reader (a.k.a. Carol)]

Laura wrote: "Response to Carol's answers

18. He said he is loyal to the realm, but I find that hard to believe. The realm is who rules it. The realm can’t rule itself.

Well, like just about everyone else, Var..."

No, I believe Varys is not spouting BS. However, he says he's loyal to the realm and I don't think that's quite true. My gut says he's playing a dangerous game waiting for the right one, who HE believes, to rule the realm. If he has someone in mind, it would depend on what kind of ruler he wants. If he is truly loyal to the realm then he is working behind the scenes to set the stage for someone to truly rule and a true ruler will want what's best for his people and realm. So far, no one I've seen has the balls to truly rule the realm. Except maybe Tyrion and he is a might too payback oriented for my liking.

I don't like him because he's too sneaky, too fond of secrets and I don't know what kind of person he wants on the Iron Throne.

[A Voracious Reader (a.k.a. Carol)]

Ok, I haven't read any posts in this thread yet because I don't want to be influenced. I like that the questions are right in front, so I'm not tempted to peek. I think when I get about halfway I'll go back and start reading.

Right now, I'm wondering how Cersei knew that Gendry was with Yoren on the way to the Wall (probably Littlefinger or Varys) and I want to know what in the heck Tyrion is planning to do with the huge iron chain he commissioned. Is it to hold a dragon? Or is there some other use? I can't think what. Plus, I know he wants payback for being held prisoner in the Eyrie, so what will that be?

[A Voracious Reader (a.k.a. Carol)]

Chapter 20 Tyrion - Chapter 23 Jon

42. I wish Tyrion could be king. He knows exactly what to do in situations and this chapter gives more evidence of this. Did you know who the "informer" was immediately when Cersei mentioned Myrcella? Did you feel sad for Cersei at all when she began to cry and Tyrion tried to comfort her? I felt more for Tyrion. It seems like he has much to give , but his family just doesn't see it.
Best line:
"The longer Cersei waits, the angrier she'll become, and anger makes her stupid. I much prefer angry and stupid to compose and cunning." I have to agree with Tyrion on that one.

I never ever feel sorry for Cersei. She can cry a river of tears that beyotch. Ugh! Die, die, die! Tyrion would be a better king at this time than any of the idiots claiming/trying to be one. He's pretty smart, clever, sneaky andhas some compassion. However, the people would never accept him as king. I don't know who the informer is? Is it Myrcella? She didn't appear to be very smart the times we saw her on page. Maybe it's her guard, Arys Oakheart, Tyrion is sending, if they reach an agreement anyway.

43. What was your first impression of Jojen & Meera? What did you think of the oath they gave, do you think it had any real meaning or just words they memorized?

They look like they are going to be interesting and I think the words were sincere.

44. Why do you think Jojen wants to see the direwolves so much? Do you think his sister has the same kind of connection with the direwolves? Do you think Bran, Jojen and the wolves are all connected?

Jojen appears to have some sort of sight since he said it wasn't his day to die. Maybe he's had some visions of the direwolves and that's why their father sent them to Winterfell even though he's not gone or sent anyone for years. How cool was it to see Bran projecting into Summer? I thought he was projecting to be his own wolf when what's he's been doing is inhabiting Summer. Very interesting.

45. What was your first impression when Catelyn approach Lord Renly's little "party"? Her thoughts pretty much summed it up for me:"They are boys drunk on song and story..."

I could NOT believe Renly. What a freakin' idiot! A fool and a jackass, no matter how pretty to look at. He may have better morals and self-restraint than Robert, but he is a big freakin' idiot playing at being King.

46. What do you think of Brienne? Will she play an important role in the story? Do you feel the tiniest bit sorry for her? Her character reminds me a little bit of "Jane" from the HBO show Deadwood. Real tough on the outside, but there's something about her that makes me feel sad for her.

Hmmm...I'm not sure about her yet. She may or may not play a bigger part than just being a girl Knight.

47."King is only a word, but fealty, loyalty, service..those I must have" Should Robb join Renly? I don't think Renly had any of those for his brother, so I think it's funny he's asking that of Robb.

Uh, see my answer above about Renly being a big freakin' idiot who's playing at being king. lol No, I would not bend my knee to that moron. Was I the only one surprised to find that Stannis had gone after Storm's End than King's Landing? Did I completely miss the clues that he was going to take what he thought should be his? In hindsight, it's a little clearer, but I don't see the war strategy in it. Again, he's acting the 5yo, wanting what should've been his. Wah, wah, wah! He should've hit King's Landing. He shouldn't be giving the Lannister's any time to build defenses there. Dumb, dumb, dumb. You know, my husband is good at war type strategy games. I really need to get him to read this series and give me his opinion about the pieces moving on the field.

48. What is up with all the incest in the book. Craster makes me sick. I cringed when he said "I'm a godly man, and the Gods keep me safe.." Do you think Sam did the right think sending Gilly to Jon? Do you think Jon should have done something for Gilly?

Sam has a big heart, but what in the hell did he think Jon could do? Come on!

49. Who do you think the Cold Gods, white shadows are? Do you think they eat the children Craster gives them or raises them?

I think the Cold Gods are the Others and they make the boys into more Others. There's a damn army of Others out there. They're like vampires.

50. I'm getting a bad feeling about Sam. Anyone else think something bad is gonna happen to him?

I have a bad feeling about everyone in this series. I picture reading the end of the last book and everyone dies. The End. Gah!

[Lisa Kay]

@Carol
Post #303 - Tyrion and that chain! That stumped me, too.
#47 - I agree with you about King Stannis; what a big baby.
#49 - Really?! Wow.
#50 - FOFL! Me too! Gah!

[A Voracious Reader (a.k.a. Carol)]

Before I answer this set of questions, the 'informer' that was mentioned must be Pycelle. Tyrion is playing his game and found his informer, at least one of them. Am I correct or just whistling in the dark?

Lisa Kay’s Questions for Chapter 24 (Theon) - Chapter 27 (Daenerys)

51. Did you suspect something was up with Esgred’s identity before the big reveal? What is your take on her? Do you like her or not?

I wondered why she accepted Theon's offer to go to the castle with him. She seemed too confident and above Theon , ifyou get my meaning. I loved, loved, loved her trick! I really can't stand Theon, the arrogant little pissant.

52. Do you think Theon and Asha’s relationship will develop into an incestuous one?

I doubt it. It seems she has Theon's measure. I think she's just messing with his head, both of them, to keep him off balance and out of her way.

53. Do you feel any sympathy for Theon whatsoever? After all, it wasn’t his fault he was held hostage for ten years. Do you think he will be able to “prove” himself? At what cost to his friendship with King Robb?

Nope, none. He was treated very well growing up in the Stark household. He's a spoiled brat who feels he's entitled to a throne. Pu-lease!!

54. Are you clear on what “plum” Lord Balon Greyjoy plans to steal?

Well, it looks like Winterfell is his goal. I'm wondering where Robb was planning to march to since he said his goal wasn't Harrenhal.

55. How poisoned do you think Cersei is? Will Tyrion do it again? Or will he use something different next time?

I think Tyrion made her sick enough to be out of his way, so he could give the orders he needed without her squawking about it. He may not try it again. At least not soon. She's not stupid and she'd put it together if he did too often.

56. Did Tyrion make any missteps in his dealings with Ser Cleos Frey cum King Robb? How about with Ser Allister? And Littlefinger?

Not with Frey or even Littlefinger, but Allister...I think he should've seen him in private. Hate Allister he might but he liked the Old Bear and the Old Bear wouldn't have sent Allister if it wasn't important. Tyrion should've remembered that. That was a mistake that I think will come back to bite him.

57. Sorry to say I had to read the pertinent parts twice; however, am I right in thinking Tyrion is going to do a variation of the “Trojan Horse” trick to get into Winterfell? Are Tyrion's long “chains” going to be used there or somewhere else? (Before, I was thinking to block the ships from entering the harbor of King's Landing, but what do I know?)

Oh, yes. I thought that right away. He wanted a thief , a poisoner, a mummer (an actor) and a murderer and he's dressing them as the Honor Guard for Eddard's bones. Then he's sending all the guards so they can hide in plain sight. Man, Tyrion just keeps amazing me with how sneaky and smart he is.

58. So, Queen Regent Cersei, Varys, and Grand Maester Pycelle all say they didn’t poison Lord Arryn. It is looking more and more as if the Nut Bunny did do it! Does this change anything in your perceptions about these three?

Oh yes, the Nut Bunny did it for sure. It doesn't change my perceptions of them one bit. They got lucky when Jon's wife killed him for them. They would've done it themselves if she hadn't beat them to it. You'll notice I'm pretty positive of the Nut Bunny's guilt. LOL

59. Man-oh-man! I am NOT liking where Arya "Weasel" is right now. I am, however, loving her prayer list, LOL! You?

I hate what she's going through! However, she is now in enemy territory and in a perfect position to spy and sabotage. She's clever, so I hope she keeps reciting Syrio's mantras and keeps a cool head. I also love her prayer list. lol

60. Okay, I’ll admit I was a little lost and had to look in the appendix. Are Xaro Xhoan Daxos (merchant prince of Qarth), Pyat Pree (Qarth warlock) and Quaithe (shadowbinder of Asshai) the three that showed up to see the dragons, right? What is your take on them? If they have something sinister planned, are they in it together or separately? Are you glad Dany learned her lesson with Mirri Maz Duur?

Yes, they are the 3. I don't trust any of them, but Quaithe may be more of a neutral party. I'll reserve judgement. Dany learned the hard way to be wary.

[Lisa Kay]

@Carol
#52 - "I think she's just messing with his head, both of them..."
Too funny, Carol! :)
#55 - Good point about her catching on.
#56 - Yes, I think he made a big misstep with Ser Allister - to the detriment of the kingdom as a whole, not just King's Landing.
#57 - True!
#58 - So, you agree! Yeah, the Nut Bunny did it. Or maybe you are one of the ones who convienced me to begin with?
#59 - Love her prayers, and she still saying them in book #3.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Reviving this thread as I'm starting this book today :)

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Prologue - Chapter 3

I think I'm impatient to know what's happening with Daenerys and those Dragons so it took me a bit to start this and I ended up reading the Prologue twice.

Anyone else loving Tyrion? I know he is a "bad" guy, but he is so fascinating and I'm looking forward to seeing what he does. I love the intrigue and politics
I cant imagine Joffrey will last long as King, and that kind of suits me because he became a right ass after getting the throne

[Shannon]

Joining you. Glad you decided to keep going. ;)

I love Tyrion. I don't think he's "bad". His family maybe. On the wrong side, yes. But I've always found him kind of honorable in his way. He's one of my favorites and, yes, Joffrey is horrible! GRRM really does do characters and intrigue very well. You aren't ever really sure you know what is going to happen, who's betraying who, who's being played.

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

That's very true - he is honourable even though he is on the side of the "baddies"

I just finished chapter 42, sorry it has taken me a while to come back here!
Dany continues to be fascinating and I kind of hope she does marry again because it is a tough world for women. Even those with dragons!!
I thought Arya would be back with Jon by now and it is so frustrating that she didn't make it. I hope by the end of this book she does :o
The death of Renly came as a big surprise.! Now I know what people mean when they say no-one is ever safe in these books

[Shannon]

I paused in Ch 12. Wasn't sure where you where. ;) I'll catch up.

It's funny, the Danny chapters have always been some of my least favorite historically, but I'm finding I'm enjoying them more this time around. I think it's actually due to the show, if that makes any sense.

Renlys death was def freaky. Especially as when you first get told about Stannis, it just seems so out of character. You'd think he would find it cowardly.

Yep. No one is ever safe!!!! Book 3 will shred you! ;)

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Yes I can understand that because she was sold to barbaric people and they are hard to like but I think that's why I've always been quite interested in her - the development of her character is fantastic. Although does turn my stomach when she keeps talking about her brute husband as being her "sun and stars". Yick.

So true about Stannis. I'd kind of written him off as weak and no hope and then suddenly Renly is dead. Totally threw me for six!

[Shannon]

Well how old is she in the books? Like 12? I forget. Spent her life being abused by her insane brother, Drogo was brutish but also kind to her albeit in a barbaric way. So you can kind of see where she would have had a worship thing for him. The show made them all older, which makes a lot of it easier to stomach. So I see the show characters when I'm reading it now.

[Shannon]

Plus the actor who played Khal Drogo was insanely hot, so it helps lol!

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

Shannon wrote: "Plus the actor who played Khal Drogo was insanely hot, so it helps lol!"

lol!!
yes she starts as 13

[Karen ⊰✿, Fiction Aficionado]

I just finished chapter 48

Jaqen is fascinating! I can't wait to know more about him - I guess he will come back in later books. I like how in this book we are getting a bit more of the fantasy" element with magic (and a couple of dragons)!