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Discussing "Ulysses" by James Joyce
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actually I do not love James Joyce half as much as he does.
That's very funny.Of course, probably nobody does.
But I still love him a lot.
Ellie wrote: "That's very funny.Of course, probably nobody does.
But I still love him a lot."
For me, James Joyce is a trickster wordsmith and I never fell in love with him, tho I do love Noras soliliquey. And its odd, because my circle of friends at university was passionate about him.
Strangly enough, both my son and the man I was enamoured of in that group shared the bloomsday birthday, and we celebrated this day with readings and reverence and fun.
Kinkajou is reading now...what do you think so far?
Kinkajou, is it worth getting an annotated version or the Gifford book (or one of the others you have)?I am reading an un-annotated version.
I'm reading the Penguin Modern Classics edition, which is described as the standard Random House/Bodley Head text that first appeared in 1960.I had read a lot of criticism of the Gabler text, but I think it's a bit like the wars between translators of the Russians.
Ultimately, it's a matter of taste.
I am interested in the relationship between the novel itself and the annotations.
I am reading the text alone, for the beauty of the language.
Next, I will seek meaning outside the text.
But I am interested in the way that the novel itself is just part of a broader source of meaning and intent and context.
In a way, Joyce never meant the novel to be a closed text in which all of the meaning was sourced from the text alone.
Indeed, only part, possibly a small part, of its meaning and significance is apparent on the page.
So just as Joyce was revolutionising writing, he was revolutionising reading.
This reminds me of the "Tutsi Fruitsy Ice Cream" skit with the books in the Marx Brothers film, "A Day at the Races":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LBIsD...
"It's pretty tricky when you don't know it."
Hopefully, I will go from clueless to clueful, eventually (and eventfully), otherwise I could end up rueful.
I always read at least parts of Joyce aloud. At least half the pleasure is in the sounds of the words in your mouth (the other half may be their sound in your ears). I couldn't read Finnegans Wake at all if I didn't read lots of it aloud. I didn't feel that pressure as much with Ulysses but I think I'll go give it a try.Thanks.
Kinkajou wrote: "Unfortunately, when I read aloud, I miss the meaning of what I'm reading."There is a cure for this affliction, but it involves moving your finger under the words as you read them.
Oh, I forgot to mention, there's a side effect.You won't be able to remember reading the book, but it will always be at your fingertips.
Somewhere, K, your books will be stored away in your fingerprint file.Do M and I hang out where?
Damn, I must have missed it. I do so love to stumble upon a pun.
Kinkajou wrote: "What is it with puns?"Dunno.
I dunno what the problem is.What's wrong with playing with words?
My experience is that there are two types of groaner.One doesn't appreciate or enjoy puns at all.
The other groans when they feel that the speaker could and should have resisted the obvious temptation to make that particular pun in those particular circumstances.
The second category implies that they believe in the possibility of good puns, but implies that this particular pun was a bad one.
The whole point of a pun is that it is spontaneous in the moment, but that it relies on the structure of language for its impact.
Thus, puns are simultaneously spontaneous and structured.
I find that the people who groan, whichever category they might be, aren't really the sort who treat language as a plaything.
They see language as functional and the building block of communication.
If someone else plays with words for the purpose of humour, they seem to think it is a waste of the potential of the building blocks.
It's like giving your kids toy building blocks and being disappointed that they just play with them, rather than building a scale model of the Empire State Building.
Punning is a rebellion against the purposive and functional approach to language.
Some people don't genuinely appreciate the rebellion.
I would be interested to read what others think a "bad" pun is, and whether their thoughts reveal that they do or don't really enjoy a "good" pun.
Wit is denigrated in the same way.
The wit sceptics habitually call wit "sarcasm".
They give the impression that they feel threatened by the attempt at wit.
I think this says more about the listener than the speaker.
But I'm not sure what it says yet.
I never groan, so I'm interested in what people have to say about why they groan, and how you can both laugh and groan.
I tell a lie.Totally coincidentally this exchange just turned up in my mail:
re: the electrical death of Keith Relf
Bill: If memory serves, he was playing an electric guitar in his bathtub.
Hans: Shocking turn of events, regardless.
John: Ohmigod, i can't believe you went there!
Kinkajou wrote: "Anyway, I'm off to see "Bridesmaids". You may groan ;)"I liked it.
Hey, Kinkajou, if you would like to start a discussion on your reading notes, would you be prepared to set up a separate topic for each chapter?Or am I being too anal?
It might just make it easier to contribute and follow the thread for each chapter.
Since all the discussion of Ulysses is already here, I just renamed this folder and created a new folder for other discussion of Joyce.So, continue on with the discussion of Ulysses....
Kinkajou wrote: "Anyway, I don't know who Keith Relf is"He was the singer for the Yardbirds:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Relf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yard...
I guess his death proves that singers should stick to singing and leave the guitar playing to the guitarists.
Ian wrote: "Kinkajou wrote: "Anyway, I don't know who Keith Relf is"He was the singer for the Yardbirds:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Relf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yard...
."
KR did not become a household name like Jimmy Page
where did the idea that he was in the bathtub come from? That is a shocking rumor for sure. He had a poorly wired home studio.
Just now finally got the nerve to peek (there were 30 posts) at what I was a bit intimidated to think was going to be terribly earnest & erudite discussion of the behemoth. Instead I find all sorts of delightful nonesense and gossip and even a reference to my own wit.A good groan is a great release, almost as good as a good laugh. For those of us who now hurt when we laugh, a groan is often as good as it gets.
Confession #1 that may be my first pun I was ever inspired to make, carried away by my association with some of the types here ;-)
#2 Bloom was Jewish?
Is this integral to the tale as it unfolds?
Did I once know this?
Kinkajou wrote: "This lag in comments is becoming very annoying >:(So for the record, if anyone happens to direct a comment at me and I don't reply, please don't think it's because I'm being a jerk, ..."
Darling,
We would never think of you as a jerk (an aloof bitch maybe ;)) and keep in mind, in all spiritual disciplines patience is a virtue:) One must go with the flow of it. Or maybe its more accurate to say, direct our own flow.
Sometimes I wish we had internet at work, but no matter how much I love it, I want to keep it a vital part of my life, not my whole life.
As Ice is always recommending, its good to be in ones own head occassionally.
Yes, it would be nice if we were in a position to have instant feedback, as in conversation, in real time. I am not sure we would be quite so thoughtful or articulate (altho I am sure that we would be spontaneous and articulate) and we'd lose the record. I havent gotten tired of checking out an older thread and maybe picking it up if I feel like I have something to contribute. There is always enough to keep me interested for a couple of hours, keeping up with peoples reviews and comments and my own reviews. I am getting a bit faster to with the mechanics of it, and I only quit when I start making too many typos and falling asleep.
I love it that you just started again at the beginning and finding its flowing better for you.
I dont feel the need to read it again, I did my six months. My mentor, Chris, said that he would be reading that book his whole life. I dont know about these one book people. Kinda spoils the book, don't you think, to put it in that position? Think of the pressure on that poor book!
A friend posted this quote on facebook yesterday:"Why don’t you write books people can read?" ~ Nora Joyce, to her husband James
*snort*
message 27:
by
Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant
(last edited Aug 21, 2011 08:23PM)
(new)
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rated it 2 stars
The aloof bitch ALWAYS has the corner office tucked away down the hall behind the stock room, her own exotic music collection and stero system, a few odd plants; but she usually drinks green tea rather than coffee to consolodate her differences.The best perscription to balance too much time in the head is dancing.
You dont think the books have their own life and feelings?
As to books having their own life and feelings, hmmm, I'm thinking their energy/feelings come from us, that we imbue them with what we're feeling and thinking. So that whatever pressure there might be is our own channeled through the book via our expectations. (Err, I think I've just confused myself.) Anyway, their lives our our lives, it's why each book means something different to every reader. "Every book has a unique conversation with each different reader.
Kinkajou wrote: Ian wrote "Every book has a unique conversation with each different reader. Indeed. A book "speaks" to us in more ways than one. Perhaps that's why we sometimes become attached to a particular book, not j..."
Absolutely.
And thats why kindles and such reading machines just dont cut it.
A whole rich level of cues is stripped from the book right off the bat. When you take away the actual book itself and substitute virtually interchangable text, you are plundering meaning and homoginizing the books message.
Her Royal Orangeness wrote: "A friend posted this quote on facebook yesterday:"Why don’t you write books people can read?" ~ Nora Joyce, to her husband James
*snort*"
Karl Marx' wife had a similar outlook:
"You write a lot about capital, but how come you never make any?"
Kinkajou wrote: "Magdelanye wrote: "Absolutely. And thats why kindles and such reading machines just dont cut it.A whole rich level of cues is stripped from the book right off the bat. When you take away the actu..."
Yesterday I sat down beside a youngish guy on the bus, and I noticed he had a reading machine. In fact he was reading. It wasnt a pretty sight.
When I expressed interest he was very defensive & reluctant to let me even look at the thing. I noticed he went to the next page by pushing a little button. Yes, he could go back to the previous page if he wanted to, and I understand its possible to highlight passages, but what about riffing through to reread something that suddenly seems pertinent, or check a fact you never thought to note....or for pleasure.
There seems to be no pleasure in the ultra linear ebook as a thing in itself. The book has become a tool,a functional container for text. It is bland and anonymous, and although I presume somebody in the design and marketing department will surely do something about that, it is stripped of its individuality with the soul of a machine & no personality.
Ian wrote: "Her Royal Orangeness wrote: "A friend posted this quote on facebook yesterday:"Why don’t you write books people can read?" ~ Nora Joyce, to her husband James
Karl Marx' wife had a sim..."
these are too much like dumb blond jokes to get more than a small groan
Kinkajou wrote: "I feel very lazy. In my entire 12 hours at work last night I did not read a single word of Ulysses. Did read a few pages of Les Mis but that's it. The rest of the evening was spent watching DVDs..."um, and you get paid to do this?
12 hours is a very long shift.
I have just finished my review:http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/2...
I look forward to more discussions.
I don't think we're finished yet.
havent read your review yet but I was amazed to note that you gave the thing 2 stars after devoting so much time and energy to it. Seems like you were inspired more than an insipid 2 star could ever generate.
Magdelanye wrote: "havent read your review yet but I was amazed to note that you gave the thing 2 stars after devoting so much time and energy to it. Seems like you were inspired more than an insipid 2 star could eve..."Sorry, I had written my review on My Writings page and had forgotten to rate it at all (I don't know where the two stars would have come from).
Anyway, I've given it five now.
uh, sorry...I checked my home page just now and I see that that insipid 2 star review was mine :)
Magdelanye wrote: "uh, sorry...I checked my home page just now and I see that that insipid 2 star review was mine :)"ha ha! Is your review going to be inspired or insipid?
Mind you, I've read some pretty inspired one and two star reviews.
message 40:
by
Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant
(last edited Aug 25, 2011 12:09AM)
(new)
-
rated it 2 stars
point of clarification: 2 stars indicates a rather insipid book, and no reflection on the review or the reviewer
Hmm, this is going to sound like self-advertising on a grand scale, so apologies if it does, but I've been rereading ulysses over the past year and posting reviews of each chapter - here's the start of a very very long reviewhttp://www.goodreads.com/story/show/2...
and it goes on... I'm up to Oxen of the Sun at the moment.
well I am not an affeciado of Ullysses but I do appreciate you posting this link as I am sure our hard core will too.thanks Paul
Ulysses surpassed all understanding, including mine.
At the end of the book its more of a visceral experienceI believe. I remember feeling just hammerred
flight paths
Books mentioned in this topic
Finnegans Wake (other topics)Ulysses (other topics)
This topic IS NOW for the discussion of ULYSSES by James Joyce. For general discussion of this author and/or his other works, please find the James Joyce thread.