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Ulysses
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Authors > Discussing "Ulysses" by James Joyce

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message 1: by Her Royal Orangeness (last edited Aug 19, 2011 04:49AM) (new)

Her Royal Orangeness (onlyorangery) EDITED

This topic IS NOW for the discussion of ULYSSES by James Joyce. For general discussion of this author and/or his other works, please find the James Joyce thread.


Ellie (elliearcher) | 1245 comments Amen to that!


message 3: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments actually I do not love James Joyce half as much as he does.


Ellie (elliearcher) | 1245 comments That's very funny.

Of course, probably nobody does.

But I still love him a lot.


message 5: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments Ellie wrote: "That's very funny.

Of course, probably nobody does.

But I still love him a lot."


For me, James Joyce is a trickster wordsmith and I never fell in love with him, tho I do love Noras soliliquey. And its odd, because my circle of friends at university was passionate about him.
Strangly enough, both my son and the man I was enamoured of in that group shared the bloomsday birthday, and we celebrated this day with readings and reverence and fun.


message 6: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments Kinkajou is reading now...what do you think so far?


message 7: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Kinkajou, is it worth getting an annotated version or the Gifford book (or one of the others you have)?
I am reading an un-annotated version.


message 8: by Ian (last edited Aug 12, 2011 06:34PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I'm reading the Penguin Modern Classics edition, which is described as the standard Random House/Bodley Head text that first appeared in 1960.

I had read a lot of criticism of the Gabler text, but I think it's a bit like the wars between translators of the Russians.
Ultimately, it's a matter of taste.

I am interested in the relationship between the novel itself and the annotations.
I am reading the text alone, for the beauty of the language.
Next, I will seek meaning outside the text.
But I am interested in the way that the novel itself is just part of a broader source of meaning and intent and context.
In a way, Joyce never meant the novel to be a closed text in which all of the meaning was sourced from the text alone.
Indeed, only part, possibly a small part, of its meaning and significance is apparent on the page.

So just as Joyce was revolutionising writing, he was revolutionising reading.

This reminds me of the "Tutsi Fruitsy Ice Cream" skit with the books in the Marx Brothers film, "A Day at the Races":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LBIsD...

"It's pretty tricky when you don't know it."


message 9: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Hopefully, I will go from clueless to clueful, eventually (and eventfully), otherwise I could end up rueful.


Ellie (elliearcher) | 1245 comments I always read at least parts of Joyce aloud. At least half the pleasure is in the sounds of the words in your mouth (the other half may be their sound in your ears). I couldn't read Finnegans Wake at all if I didn't read lots of it aloud. I didn't feel that pressure as much with Ulysses but I think I'll go give it a try.

Thanks.


message 11: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Kinkajou wrote: "Unfortunately, when I read aloud, I miss the meaning of what I'm reading."

There is a cure for this affliction, but it involves moving your finger under the words as you read them.


message 12: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Oh, I forgot to mention, there's a side effect.
You won't be able to remember reading the book, but it will always be at your fingertips.


message 13: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Somewhere, K, your books will be stored away in your fingerprint file.

Do M and I hang out where?


message 14: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Damn, I must have missed it. I do so love to stumble upon a pun.


message 15: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Kinkajou wrote: "What is it with puns?"

Dunno.


message 16: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I dunno what the problem is.
What's wrong with playing with words?


message 17: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye My experience is that there are two types of groaner.

One doesn't appreciate or enjoy puns at all.

The other groans when they feel that the speaker could and should have resisted the obvious temptation to make that particular pun in those particular circumstances.

The second category implies that they believe in the possibility of good puns, but implies that this particular pun was a bad one.

The whole point of a pun is that it is spontaneous in the moment, but that it relies on the structure of language for its impact.
Thus, puns are simultaneously spontaneous and structured.

I find that the people who groan, whichever category they might be, aren't really the sort who treat language as a plaything.

They see language as functional and the building block of communication.

If someone else plays with words for the purpose of humour, they seem to think it is a waste of the potential of the building blocks.

It's like giving your kids toy building blocks and being disappointed that they just play with them, rather than building a scale model of the Empire State Building.

Punning is a rebellion against the purposive and functional approach to language.

Some people don't genuinely appreciate the rebellion.

I would be interested to read what others think a "bad" pun is, and whether their thoughts reveal that they do or don't really enjoy a "good" pun.

Wit is denigrated in the same way.
The wit sceptics habitually call wit "sarcasm".
They give the impression that they feel threatened by the attempt at wit.
I think this says more about the listener than the speaker.
But I'm not sure what it says yet.


message 18: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I never groan, so I'm interested in what people have to say about why they groan, and how you can both laugh and groan.


message 19: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I tell a lie.
Totally coincidentally this exchange just turned up in my mail:

re: the electrical death of Keith Relf

Bill: If memory serves, he was playing an electric guitar in his bathtub.
Hans: Shocking turn of events, regardless.
John: Ohmigod, i can't believe you went there!


message 20: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Kinkajou wrote: "Anyway, I'm off to see "Bridesmaids". You may groan ;)"

I liked it.


message 21: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Hey, Kinkajou, if you would like to start a discussion on your reading notes, would you be prepared to set up a separate topic for each chapter?
Or am I being too anal?
It might just make it easier to contribute and follow the thread for each chapter.


Her Royal Orangeness (onlyorangery) Since all the discussion of Ulysses is already here, I just renamed this folder and created a new folder for other discussion of Joyce.

So, continue on with the discussion of Ulysses....


message 23: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Kinkajou wrote: "Anyway, I don't know who Keith Relf is"

He was the singer for the Yardbirds:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Relf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yard...

I guess his death proves that singers should stick to singing and leave the guitar playing to the guitarists.


message 24: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments Ian wrote: "Kinkajou wrote: "Anyway, I don't know who Keith Relf is"

He was the singer for the Yardbirds:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Relf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yard...

."


KR did not become a household name like Jimmy Page
where did the idea that he was in the bathtub come from? That is a shocking rumor for sure. He had a poorly wired home studio.

Just now finally got the nerve to peek (there were 30 posts) at what I was a bit intimidated to think was going to be terribly earnest & erudite discussion of the behemoth. Instead I find all sorts of delightful nonesense and gossip and even a reference to my own wit.A good groan is a great release, almost as good as a good laugh. For those of us who now hurt when we laugh, a groan is often as good as it gets.

Confession #1 that may be my first pun I was ever inspired to make, carried away by my association with some of the types here ;-)

#2 Bloom was Jewish?
Is this integral to the tale as it unfolds?
Did I once know this?


message 25: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments Kinkajou wrote: "This lag in comments is becoming very annoying >:(

So for the record, if anyone happens to direct a comment at me and I don't reply, please don't think it's because I'm being a jerk, ..."


Darling,
We would never think of you as a jerk (an aloof bitch maybe ;)) and keep in mind, in all spiritual disciplines patience is a virtue:) One must go with the flow of it. Or maybe its more accurate to say, direct our own flow.

Sometimes I wish we had internet at work, but no matter how much I love it, I want to keep it a vital part of my life, not my whole life.

As Ice is always recommending, its good to be in ones own head occassionally.

Yes, it would be nice if we were in a position to have instant feedback, as in conversation, in real time. I am not sure we would be quite so thoughtful or articulate (altho I am sure that we would be spontaneous and articulate) and we'd lose the record. I havent gotten tired of checking out an older thread and maybe picking it up if I feel like I have something to contribute. There is always enough to keep me interested for a couple of hours, keeping up with peoples reviews and comments and my own reviews. I am getting a bit faster to with the mechanics of it, and I only quit when I start making too many typos and falling asleep.

I love it that you just started again at the beginning and finding its flowing better for you.
I dont feel the need to read it again, I did my six months. My mentor, Chris, said that he would be reading that book his whole life. I dont know about these one book people. Kinda spoils the book, don't you think, to put it in that position? Think of the pressure on that poor book!


Her Royal Orangeness (onlyorangery) A friend posted this quote on facebook yesterday:

"Why don’t you write books people can read?" ~ Nora Joyce, to her husband James

*snort*


message 27: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (last edited Aug 21, 2011 08:23PM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments The aloof bitch ALWAYS has the corner office tucked away down the hall behind the stock room, her own exotic music collection and stero system, a few odd plants; but she usually drinks green tea rather than coffee to consolodate her differences.

The best perscription to balance too much time in the head is dancing.

You dont think the books have their own life and feelings?


message 28: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye As to books having their own life and feelings, hmmm, I'm thinking their energy/feelings come from us, that we imbue them with what we're feeling and thinking. So that whatever pressure there might be is our own channeled through the book via our expectations. (Err, I think I've just confused myself.) Anyway, their lives our our lives, it's why each book means something different to every reader. "

Every book has a unique conversation with each different reader.


message 29: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments Kinkajou wrote: Ian wrote "Every book has a unique conversation with each different reader.

Indeed. A book "speaks" to us in more ways than one. Perhaps that's why we sometimes become attached to a particular book, not j..."


Absolutely.
And thats why kindles and such reading machines just dont cut it.
A whole rich level of cues is stripped from the book right off the bat. When you take away the actual book itself and substitute virtually interchangable text, you are plundering meaning and homoginizing the books message.


message 30: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Her Royal Orangeness wrote: "A friend posted this quote on facebook yesterday:

"Why don’t you write books people can read?" ~ Nora Joyce, to her husband James

*snort*"


Karl Marx' wife had a similar outlook:

"You write a lot about capital, but how come you never make any?"


message 31: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments Kinkajou wrote: "Magdelanye wrote: "Absolutely. And thats why kindles and such reading machines just dont cut it.
A whole rich level of cues is stripped from the book right off the bat. When you take away the actu..."


Yesterday I sat down beside a youngish guy on the bus, and I noticed he had a reading machine. In fact he was reading. It wasnt a pretty sight.
When I expressed interest he was very defensive & reluctant to let me even look at the thing. I noticed he went to the next page by pushing a little button. Yes, he could go back to the previous page if he wanted to, and I understand its possible to highlight passages, but what about riffing through to reread something that suddenly seems pertinent, or check a fact you never thought to note....or for pleasure.
There seems to be no pleasure in the ultra linear ebook as a thing in itself. The book has become a tool,a functional container for text. It is bland and anonymous, and although I presume somebody in the design and marketing department will surely do something about that, it is stripped of its individuality with the soul of a machine & no personality.


message 32: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments Ian wrote: "Her Royal Orangeness wrote: "A friend posted this quote on facebook yesterday:
"Why don’t you write books people can read?" ~ Nora Joyce, to her husband James
Karl Marx' wife had a sim..."


these are too much like dumb blond jokes to get more than a small groan


message 33: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments Kinkajou wrote: "I feel very lazy. In my entire 12 hours at work last night I did not read a single word of Ulysses. Did read a few pages of Les Mis but that's it. The rest of the evening was spent watching DVDs..."

um, and you get paid to do this?
12 hours is a very long shift.


message 34: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye I have just finished my review:

http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/2...

I look forward to more discussions.
I don't think we're finished yet.


message 35: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments havent read your review yet but I was amazed to note that you gave the thing 2 stars after devoting so much time and energy to it. Seems like you were inspired more than an insipid 2 star could ever generate.


message 36: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Magdelanye wrote: "havent read your review yet but I was amazed to note that you gave the thing 2 stars after devoting so much time and energy to it. Seems like you were inspired more than an insipid 2 star could eve..."

Sorry, I had written my review on My Writings page and had forgotten to rate it at all (I don't know where the two stars would have come from).
Anyway, I've given it five now.


message 37: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments uh, sorry...I checked my home page just now and I see that that insipid 2 star review was mine :)


Ellie (elliearcher) | 1245 comments lol


message 39: by Ian (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ian "Marvin" Graye Magdelanye wrote: "uh, sorry...I checked my home page just now and I see that that insipid 2 star review was mine :)"

ha ha! Is your review going to be inspired or insipid?
Mind you, I've read some pretty inspired one and two star reviews.


message 40: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (last edited Aug 25, 2011 12:09AM) (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments point of clarification: 2 stars indicates a rather insipid book, and no reflection on the review
or the reviewer


message 41: by Paul (new) - rated it 5 stars

Paul Bryant Hmm, this is going to sound like self-advertising on a grand scale, so apologies if it does, but I've been rereading ulysses over the past year and posting reviews of each chapter - here's the start of a very very long review

http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/2...

and it goes on... I'm up to Oxen of the Sun at the moment.


message 42: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments well I am not an affeciado of Ullysses but I do appreciate you posting this link as I am sure our hard core will too.
thanks Paul


message 43: by Ice, Pilgrim (last edited Jun 25, 2013 03:29AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Ice Bear (neilar) | 756 comments Ulysses surpassed all understanding, including mine.


message 44: by Magdelanye, Senior Flight Attendant (new) - rated it 2 stars

Magdelanye | 2337 comments At the end of the book its more of a visceral experience
I believe. I remember feeling just hammerred


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