You'll love this one...!! A book club & more discussion
Group Themed Reads: Discussions
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July Read: The Hunger Games - discussion led by Judy
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We'd be too busy reading at that time of the morning to be posting in Goodreads. :)
Judy wrote: "If anyone has the desire to try their hand at the Hunger Games, here is your chance!http://www.scholastic.com/thehungerga..."
Failed at both of them...several times! I'd have been a character mentioned in a footnote in the book, LOL.
Judy wrote: " What did you think of the public officials turning a blind eye to Gale and Katniss lawbreaking by purchasing their strawberries? Did you respect the officials more or less?"I think it was more from their own self interest (they wanted rabbit and strawberries) than any political or humanitarian motive.
Lindsay wrote: "...having ploughed into it, more than anything this reminds me of His Dark Materials trilogy so far. (A Good Thing!) The Katniss-Peeta characters remind me of Lyra and Roger, as does their relationship - the strong, wild, feisty teenage girl with the gentler and more vulnerable male companion. The dystopian setting and theme of the victimisation of children appears very similar too..."There are some similarities, but overall, I think they are very different. THG is dark and nasty, but it isn't heavy. There is a lot of deep philosophy and theology in HDM that is in a different league to anything in THG.
A brief Slate article about Collins' success with THG: http://www.slate.com/id/2299513/.Mockingjay (one of the sequels) is described as "practically a Kama Sutra of violence"! It also says "Collins doesn't talk down to her young readers". I'm not sure I agree with either, though my opinion is based on just the first book.
Judy wrote: "1. Why do you think the Capitol was described as artificial candy and too brightness?2. Do you have any thoughts on what the appearance of the dandelion signified throughout the book?"
1. I presume because it was too good to be true and built on artifice and sacrifice. But "too brightness"? Is that a typo?
2. I didn't even notice (and I normally do pick up on such things) so I don't know the context, but I would guess it might be something about sowing seeds - of revolution, perhaps?
Judy wrote: "Do you have any thoughts on what the appearance of the dandelion signified throughout the book?"***SPOILERS***
(I can't figure out how to do a spoiler cut)
Dandelions represent hope to Katniss - she regained hope after Peeta's father lifted her spirits with his gift before she was shipped off to the HG, and looking out of the window she saw a patch of dandelions, which took her back to when she was a child and Peeta gave her bread when her family were starving. She saw a dandelion then - "when I saw the dandelion and I knew hope wasn't lost." She says they remind her of happier times in the woods with her father.
Cecily wrote: "[RE. Dark Materials trilogy] There are some similarities, but overall, I think they are very different. THG is dark and nasty, but it isn't heavy. There is a lot of deep philosophy and theology in HDM that is in a different league to anything in THG."Agreed on their respective depths. I think most teens could appreciate/pick up on all the issues associated with THG, but most adults (myself included) would not do the same for His Dark Materials without a fair bit of research and wider reading. And yet they're both shelved as 'YA'...
Judy wrote: "Lindsay & Cecily, since you have both read this trilogy, could you weigh in on comparisons between writing quality, plotting, etc. Perhaps it should go on one of the book threads. I've been considering reading Pullman's trilogy but would like to know more about it. I respect both of your opinions a lot"It's at least six years since I read the Pullman trilogy and I've only read the first of The Hunger Games ones, so I can't be very specific, but I'll have a stab at a comparison:
His Dark Materials is controversial primarily because it is very anti church, whereas The Hunger Games' controversy stems from raw violence against children.
I think the main difference is depth and breadth:
* THG raises issues, and ones that don't have easy solutions (the nature of friendship; divided loyalties; the difference between love and friendship; who to trust; whether the ends justify the means; the need to replay favours; the danger of power, wealth and celebrity; the corrupting influence of reality TV; the need for independence, and whether you can trust a parent who abandons you).
* In contrast, HDM explores topics that are far more intellectually challenging (the nature of good and evil, the nature of God, original sin, redemption, parallel worlds, the meaning of consciousness, evolution, teenage sexuality, the afterlife and lots more) and require more background knowledge to appreciate fully (especially about Milton's "Paradise Lost" and the history of the Roman Catholic church and its beliefs).
For me, THG is firmly a YA book, whereas by the time you get to the third volume of HDM it is more of an adult book that teens have been guided towards by the two that preceded it.
I read HDM in about 2005, so I'm similarly hazy on detail - Cecily, while you mention the more challenging and interesting issues in HDM, it could also be said that it addresses most of the issues you list for the HG too, and I think both series could be read by a young person purely at that level.Cecily wrote: "THG raises issues... the nature of friendship; divided loyalties; the difference between love and friendship; who to trust;"
These are all themes in Lyra and Roger's friendship culminating in what is presented as her unwitting betrayal of him (Peeta I would equate to Roger for their sacrificial roles). Then there's Will who I would equate to Gale, who is a stronger character she has a more deep rooted connection with.
Cecily wrote: "THG raises issues... the danger of power, wealth and celebrity... the need for independence, and whether you can trust a parent who abandons you"
These are themes for the main character Lyra in HDM who is tossed around in a world made much more dangerous by her powerful parents and a seriously twisted & powerful system, one of whom has essentially adandoned her and the other who attempted to splinch her (or whatever the verb was ;-)
I'm finding both series equally unputdownable - the narrative and adventure are equally compelling, only Pullman is addressing some more challenging issues through his story as an extra layer (which I don't think you'd even have to be aware of to enjoy the story!) I have a feeling not much will come along to knock HDM from the pedestal I've put it on, but I have and expect I will read quite a few HG's through the years.
Yes, I agree that "His Dark Materials" covers almost all the big issues that "The Hunger Games" covers, but I was trying to indicate the differences, rather than the similarities. (For me, it boils down to the fact that the former is brilliant and the latter is... not.) Personally, I'm not convinced that anyone could get much out of the whole HDM trilogy on the story alone. If you don't have at least some understanding of the more profound issues I think it would be leaden and confusing, but perhaps I'm overly influenced by the fascinating discussions my son and I had when we were reading HDM in parallel with each other.
I actually think Collins watched a Japanese film called Battle Royale. If you've not seen it, watch it. It is exactly how I imagine the Hunger Games. I've actually just finished the trilogy, but the Hunger Games was wonderful. I was surprisingly touched by the love story, and found myself constantly bouncing between Peeta and Gale to win Katniss's heart. To be honest, I found it difficult to believe that Katniss won the Hunger Games. There were certainly some better contenders there.
Do you have any thoughts on what the appearance of the dandelion signified throughout the book? I think it symbolises what Peeta brings to Katniss's life. He's a gentle, beautiful being that perfectly plays off of her darker nature
Team Gale ;-) Sometimes I crave the inanity of livejournal polls. (Did the Team-X phrase even exist before Twilight?)As for having your name picked from a bucket as a tribute resulting in Almost Certain Death - what about the similarity with the super cheesy 80s movie Dragonslayer? Just to put it into perspective, HG has to be better than that...
I think the dandelion represents resilience. You can not get rid of a dandelion and it keeps coming back even after you pluck it.
Cecily wrote: "A brief Slate article about Collins' success with THG: http://www.slate.com/id/2299513/.Mockingjay (one of the sequels) is described as "practically a Kama Sutra of violence"! It also says "Colli..."
I found that article to be extremely biased. And yes, Mockingjay is violent. War is violent, and Mockingjay is war. I'm not sure how you can prissify it.
Btw, Lisa and Lindsay, have you been welcomed to You'll Love This One? I'm so glad you've joined our group and joined this discussion!
Lisa wrote: "I actually think Collins watched a Japanese film called Battle Royale. If you've not seen it, watch it. It is exactly how I imagine the Hunger Games. I've actually just finished the trilogy, but th..."Here is an interview where Collins talks about her inspiration for the book: http://myfavoriteauthor.blogspot.com/...
Lindsay wrote: "Judy wrote: "Do you have any thoughts on what the appearance of the dandelion signified throughout the book?"***SPOILERS***
(I can't figure out how to do a spoiler cut)
Dandelions represent hope ..."
To enclose text and mark it as spoiler, the HTML code is <?spoiler>write text here. Just leave out the question mark.
Janice wrote: "To enclose text and mark it as spoiler, the HTML code is <?spoiler>write text here. Just leave out the question mark. "Thanks, not seen that before!
Cecily wrote: "Janice wrote: "My grandson is 12 and I find it amazing how wise he is. He loves to read and has a mature taste in books. I'll be interested in his comments on The Hunger Games trilogy."If he re..."
My students (ages 14-18) pretty much loved the books universally. Some of them found the third books the weakest in the trilogy, but those who read the first one all loved it. They found it engaging, believable, and action filled. I don't recall one negative from any of them.
I've heard other people say that Mockingjay was a disappointment, Sarah. I enjoyed it myself. NOTE: This is a major spoiler!!
(view spoiler)
Janice wrote: "...I found that article to be extremely biased. And yes, Mockingjay is violent. War is violent, and Mockingjay is war. I'm not sure how you can prissify it...."Yes, even as one who didn't think it a particularly good book, I don't think it was very fair (as I said, I didn't agree with either of the points I quoted). I love "prissify", but if you did do that, the book wouldn't have much of a point.
Janice wrote: "Lisa wrote: "I actually think Collins watched a Japanese film called Battle Royale. If you've not seen it, watch it. It is exactly how I imagine the Hunger Games. I've actually just finished the tr..."I have read that interview before. It's just so reminiscent of Battle Royale! Although, I suppose it's an idea that a few people could come up with. Even just the arena's and the capitol's weapons reminded me of the film. Have we read catching fire yet? That arena is amazing!
I prefered Catching Fire. Don't want to spoil it for anyone that plans to read the trilogy but the characters definitely have a little more depth in the second book. And you're right Lisa the arena in it is amazing. I felt she used a lot more of her own imagination in the second book.
Jenny wrote: "I prefered Catching Fire. Don't want to spoil it for anyone that plans to read the trilogy but the characters definitely have a little more depth in the second book. And you're right Lisa the arena..."Catching Fire was by far my favourite of the trilogy.. One word Jenny. Finnick xx
Does anyone have any thoughts on the upcoming movie adaptation? The main characters have now been cast:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1392170/
I think the arena will be pretty spectacular, but I've no idea how they're going to get across some of the story without an inner monologue - like Katniss's awareness of Haymitch's manipulation in the arena, and what is being done for the camera vs. what is done spontaneously.
And the biggest quandary - how are they going to keep it to a PG-13 without losing all the impact of the book?
Cecily wrote: "Janice wrote: "...I found that article to be extremely biased. And yes, Mockingjay is violent. War is violent, and Mockingjay is war. I'm not sure how you can prissify it...."Yes, even as one who..."
LOL! This discussion has been fun. :)
Lindsay wrote: "Does anyone have any thoughts on the upcoming movie adaptation? The main characters have now been cast:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1392170/
I think the arena will be pretty spectacular, but I've n..."
There are some interesting actors cast in the movie. Woody Harrelson as Haymitch, Donald Sutherland as President Snow, and Lenny Kravitz as Cinna! All of those surprise me and not how I pictured the characters. And yet, I think each of them will be fine. I've seen Donald Sutherland play an icy cold hearted man, just don't remember the movie. Woody - I pictured Haymitch as fat. I'm sure he'll do the part justice too. And Lenny! I wonder how they're going to interpret his character. Will he come across ?as "flaming"?
The girl they picked for Rue is so sweet and cherub looking. I'll be crying my eyes out, I'm sure!
I wonder, too, how they'll keep the rating to PG-13. At any rate, I can't wait for the movie to come out!
Ooooh boy! I'm at work on my lunch break. I'm going to have to come back to these questions later on.You did an awesome job of leading the discussion Judy!
Janice wrote: "Ooooh boy! I'm at work on my lunch break. I'm going to have to come back to these questions later on.You did an awesome job of leading the discussion Judy!"
Agreed well done Judy!
Judy wrote: "1. If you were a District 12 contender, how difficult would it be to trust Effie and Haymitch with your life?2.The HGs were supposed to be a fight-to-the-death event. However, human goodness could be seen beginning with Katniss' volunteering to play in place of Prim. Do you think that set the stage for a kinder 74th version of the HG?
3. What parallels can be drawn between Katniss' dislike of Buttercup, Prim's cat, and how she perceived most people?
4. How would you feel about raising a child in District 12? How would you cope? What are some of the ways the District 12-ites coped?"
1. Impossible, but essential. There is no choice and no alternative, really.
2. I've only read the first book, but I'm sure there were several mentions of the fact that Katniss' descision, although unusual, was not unheard of, so no, I don't see why it would set the scene for kinder future games.
3. I don't remember enough about the cat to comment.
4. The whole premise of the games is so obscenely awful, that it's hard to imagine how one would cope in such a world, but I would strive to do my best for my child, whether that be through lots of love and finding happiness in small pleasures or looking for a way out (whether literal or political).
Thanks for leading, Judy.
When I said politically, I didn't mean via the ballot box; even the most oppressed people can (and do) rise up eventually. It was revolution I was thinking of.
1. I think it would be extremely difficult to trust Effie or Haymitch. Effie seems to have bought into the whole thing, and how reliable is someone who has lost himself in the bottle?2. Katniss was essentially a kind hearted person. She took Priss' place in the games so that Priss would live. She knew that she herself would most likely die in the games. ("What greater love have a man who lays down his life for his brother.") If the games were kinder that round, it was that Katniss was the kind one. That's why she fell so badly out of President Snow's favour.
3. I loved that snarly miserable cat. I think that Buttercup and Katniss were two of a kind (minus the snarly miserable part). They were both independent. They both wandered at will. They both loved Priss dearly. I don't know that there are any parallels between her dislike of the cat and how she perceived other people. She seemed to have that "feline" sense of whether or not she should trust another person. Your thoughts, Judy??
4. I wouldn't want to raise a child in that world, living on tenterhooks until he/she was past the age of needing to partipate in the reaping. I can breathe a sigh of relief that my son is now old enough to never be drafted. But my grandchildren.... scary!
It was a good choice. It generated lots of discussion. :)My grandson has started reading The Hunger Games. He's at the part where Katniss and Peeta come out on stage in the chariot. He thought that part was really cool.
I asked what he thought of the reaping. He felt bad that Katniss had to protect her sister. He commented how Priss only had her name in once while others had theirs in several times, and still got drawn. He also said that it was a pretty strange society to live in.
Janice: It's interesting that your grandson, despite being a suitable age for reaping (I think) doesn't identify too closely with the threat. Keep us posted with anything else he cares to share.
Thanks Judy. He's a great kid.. and I'm not biased. :)
Tyler has finished reading The Hunger Games. He loved it! "Oh Grandma! That book was soooo good!"He had a hard time saying what his favorite part was, then decided it was when Katniss found Peeta injured and camoflaged in the creek. He thought the society was crazy, and the Capitol even crazier. He would not like to live there.
I asked him how he would feel if he was in the reaping. "Very scared!" Did he think the book realistically showed the fear or lack of fear? "Yes." He thinks that you have to set aside your fear.
He really felt uncomfortable about the fact that it was children his age being forced to kill other children. He felt very sad when Rue died, almost started to cry. He also felt bad about Thresh and Cato.
That made me think that some characters are developed more than others in the group who fought in the games and perhaps we grew to care more about those, like we knew them and cared about them whereas we didn't feel that connection with the others. I asked Tyler if he thought that was why he reacted stronger to Rue, Thresh, and Cato. He thought that made a lot of sense.
He loved the muttations and we talked about how the Capitol had the scientific knowledge to create them and some of the effects in the arena.
I asked him who Katniss should pick for a romantic partner - Gale or Peeta. He thought Peeta because he was more her age and they had grown up together.
He asked what the next book was about. I said, "Remember how Katniss angered the Capitol because she forced the outcome to go her way and not theirs? Well the repercussions of that are a big part of the next book.
He's a bright and perceptive boy. Thank you so much for sharing his opinions. It's fascinating to see that some of what I, as an adult, saw as flaws in the book are not perceived that way by someone in the target age range.Although I agree that some characters are more developed than others, if all the competitors had been fully fleshed out, the book would have been a lot longer, perhaps a little confusing and generally less well received.
How lovely to hear your grandson's opinion Janice. And it's great that bits that I thought were rubbish he thought were good - the muttations. But then it's not aimed at people my age :)
Wonderfully entertaining. I rated this one 4/5.
The characters were good, the details well-thought, and the action intense. I was disappointed in the movie, though. I thought it could have been done better. Yes, I will read more by Suzanne Collins.
The characters were good, the details well-thought, and the action intense. I was disappointed in the movie, though. I thought it could have been done better. Yes, I will read more by Suzanne Collins.
I agree, Maggie. I only saw the first movie and was disappointed that things were left out or changed from the book. I'm hesitant to see the other movies but loved all the books.
I really enjoyed this book. My roommate recommended the trilogy to me, and I spent a weekend reading them. I thought the idea of the Hunger Games was very interesting, and I enjoyed reading about the challenges they faced. The movie was quite good too.
You'll love this one...!! A book club & more
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I avoided it because it got such bad reviews from readers... readers being fussy about screen adaptations, who'da thunk it ;-)
Judy wrote: "Are you having a hard time putting it down, Lindsay? :-) Glad you joined in the discussion. "
My mind was still racing too much to sleep at 1am last night so I just picked it up and carried on, haha. A bit late in the day but I swore I'd read it in the allotted window, just about made it :-)