Fantasy Aficionados discussion
Reading Recommendations
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Ok so im making a list.
Specific authors aside, I believe as a parent I have the right to refuse to let my kids read something if I believe it's detrimental to their well-being. It's up to me and my spouse to determine what that may or may not be. I don't believe books should be removed from shelves or censored in the general public, and I won't "hide" them from my kids, but if I have an issue with whatever book/series/music/movie I will explain to my kids why and when they're adults then they can make choices for themselves.
There are times when sitting down and explaining difficult material is a great idea...sometimes I think there are certain things that are just trash and they don't need to be involved with it.
What's that saying..."If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything..."?
There are times when sitting down and explaining difficult material is a great idea...sometimes I think there are certain things that are just trash and they don't need to be involved with it.
What's that saying..."If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything..."?
While trying to follow along as best as possible... I didn't see C.S. Friedman listed.Personally I really enjoyed The Coldfire Trilogy: Black Sun Rising/ When True Night Falls/ Crown of Shadows, and am very excited for the final installment of The Magister Trilogy: Feast of Souls,Wings of Wrath, & Legacy of Kings.
Sure books need to be age appropriate. My kids were both older when Pullman came up. There were books I would have not allowed them to read or would have had them wait to read. When my kids were small I didn't allow them to watch MTV (I did allow VH1, we're talking a few years ago). As they got older the decision was theirs. ***********************************
I haven't gotten past the first book in Cold Fire trilogy. I keep meaning to, but they're like all the other hundreds of books waiting. I just keep reading other before them.
"So many books, so little time", is far more profound than most realize. :)
Look at that divot. You may have to sand that out before you fill it...try Plastic Wood.Did it hurt?
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "So many books, so little time", is far more profound than most realize. "
So true! Guess it'll never get boring...there's always something out there.
So true! Guess it'll never get boring...there's always something out there.
*smiles* Well I think I've made my opinion more than clear and see no reason to beat into the ground. *grisn* However (lol) I respectfully disagree with your opinion, Mark. I'm perfectly capable of separating an author and his work but I firmly believe that Pullman's message and works are blatantly anti-faith and about killing God (killing a "false God" that clearly represents a Christian God most assuredly counts in my opinion). I'll take an author's blatant statement of fact about what his work means and what he hopes to achieve through it over any fan's opinion as to what his work's true meaning is all day long. I still love ya, bro! Nonetheless, I do think you're wrong.
Thanks...excuse me I have to go clean my whip, I seem to have some horse flesh clinging to it...and there are so many other dead horses that need flogging!
Hm.
Are there any other anti-faith, 'G'od killing authors out there?
Are there any other anti-faith, 'G'od killing authors out there?
Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "Well, the big difference Mark is that His Dark Materials is a fairly open attack on Christianity or at least certain denominations...."Mike, i think you may be missing my point? that second post was about why i understand how christians can object to Pullman and boycott his works, because of his vociferously stated beliefs.
however, my first post was about how i believe that HDM itself, regardless of the author's personal feelings stated outside of the book, is not an open attack on Christianity.. that kind of attack is simply not in the book - particularly when taking into context who the actual villains are and how the war in heaven is resolved.
Wow. Bang.
Head.
Here.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Wow. Bang.
Head.
Here."
LMAO, and joining in on the head banging.
well, hey, sorry if it annoys you mods, but i'm simply responding to a comment from mike and clarifying my own point. it's not the most difficult thing in the world to skip a post if it causes such a visceral, head-banging reaction.
and to respond to grant: unless you've actually read the book in question, i really do not feel you are in a position to judge. the trilogy itself is not explicitly anti-christian. if anything, "killing a "false God" that clearly represents a Christian God" is something that christians can actually get on board with. my gosh, the book says there are angels and heaven! and it says there are also pretenders to the throne. certainly lutheranism - hey, the protestant faith in general - has also come under fire for espousing that same message!i also believe that an author and his works are separate things. once something is born, it leaves the nest. otherwise, i'd never be able to enjoy any woody allen movie. or watch another performance by mel gibson or tom cruise. or listen to another kanye west album.
Mark, don't take the head banging personally. LOLI think what we're trying to say is that you guys who are arguing about Pullman will never find common ground. You guys could end up arguing about this for years and still accomplish nothing. It's a waste of energy. :) Agree to disagree!
okay, i won't!i do know that this can be tiresome to some folks. but it is interesting to others! although maybe just three of us, sigh. i guess i just enjoy debating this kind of stuff, and Grant & Mike are two people who i may be diametrically opposed to me philosophically, but they are also two people who i respect. so i for one am seldom bored, or afraid this could turn ugly. but that's just me, and i get that this is perhaps boring to others.
okay, on to edit my last post - i just thought of another point! lol
This sequel wasn't as good as the original. Don't think I will read the third in the series, when it comes out.
I feel like this whole argument is something that I would start.
Lol...nah no chance of it turning ugly, Mark. The respect is fully returned and I can look at an opposing opinion in a good natured manner. Mark, typically I would agree with your statement that someone who hasn't read a book shouldn't be able to offer a valid opinion however, since the author himself has stated that his intent in the series was to "kill God", I think I'm perfectly justified in "judging". (view spoiler) however Pullman's inherent desire behind writing the series in the first place was to blatantly undermine the faith of theist believers not to write a fantasy book for the mere enjoyment of the masses. He admits this and defines the parameters of why he wrote this series and I feel completely justified in condemning him for it :)
also believe that an author and his works are separate things. once something is born, it leaves the nest. otherwise, i'd never be able to enjoy any woody allen movie. or watch another performance by mel gibson or tom cruise. or listen to another kanye west album
This is hilarious :) I still don't totally agree though. I think it depends on the person as to whether their works are separate. Many authors infuse a great deal of themselves into their work and are inherently tied to said work. I don't think it's truly possible to separate some. Others, however, are fully capable of writing outside of their personal viewpoints or opinions. It's a case by case basis for me.
As for those tired of this ongoing debate/conversation.
Stop reading. Skip the thread. Click it and back out. Whatever ya have to do to make yourself happy, well go ahead and do so. We're not hurting anyone. We're not throwing poo or yelling or cussing one another. We're having a polite intelligent exchange of opinion. Sure, no ones minds are likely to change but neither are we holding anyone down and forcing them to read our various rants. The person who started the original thread hasn't posted since he asked his original question and if he's absent because of our diatribe, I'm sorry. Nonetheless, he's not complaining so I don't see why anyone else should. Go eat a brownie :)
also believe that an author and his works are separate things. once something is born, it leaves the nest. otherwise, i'd never be able to enjoy any woody allen movie. or watch another performance by mel gibson or tom cruise. or listen to another kanye west album
This is hilarious :) I still don't totally agree though. I think it depends on the person as to whether their works are separate. Many authors infuse a great deal of themselves into their work and are inherently tied to said work. I don't think it's truly possible to separate some. Others, however, are fully capable of writing outside of their personal viewpoints or opinions. It's a case by case basis for me.
As for those tired of this ongoing debate/conversation.
Stop reading. Skip the thread. Click it and back out. Whatever ya have to do to make yourself happy, well go ahead and do so. We're not hurting anyone. We're not throwing poo or yelling or cussing one another. We're having a polite intelligent exchange of opinion. Sure, no ones minds are likely to change but neither are we holding anyone down and forcing them to read our various rants. The person who started the original thread hasn't posted since he asked his original question and if he's absent because of our diatribe, I'm sorry. Nonetheless, he's not complaining so I don't see why anyone else should. Go eat a brownie :)
For what it's worth, I first read HDM when I was... 9 or 10? And the anti-dogma themes completely went over my head. I just went "OOOOOH I WANT A SOUL ANIMAL! DOOD, ARMORED POLAR BEARS! OMG NORTHERN LIGHTS! ZOMG WITCHES! WOW DUST IS COOL!" etc. I really don't think most children are going to latch onto the allegory/Paradise Lost references - if they like it, they'll probably just get sucked into the world itself and not the plot. At least, I did. :P
You guys COULD start a new thread though... right? Keep the debate focused AND bring in others who find the topic interesting.Anyways...
Kara wrote: "While trying to follow along as best as possible... I didn't see C.S. Friedman listed.Personally I really enjoyed [book:The Coldfire Trilogy: Black Sun Rising/ When True Night Fa..."
While I haven't read the Magister Trilogy, I love the Colfire Trilogy. Gerald Tarrant is one of my favorite characters in all of fantasy.
Lol...you know I love ya, Tracey, and as Jason said earlier, don't take it personally. I just think it's no less silly for us to have a debate than it is for people to bitch about that polite debate in this previously fairly dead thread. It hasn't turned ugly and barring one of the three of us showing our ass (which I don't see happening) I think it'll turn out just fine.
Kevin wrote: "I feel like this whole argument is something that I would start."
Not really, since no one tried to bring in Dawn or Chris. :P
Not really, since no one tried to bring in Dawn or Chris. :P
Lol...oooooooooh Ala...you're gonna be in Troublllllllllle.
Ala wrote: "Kevin wrote: "I feel like this whole argument is something that I would start."Not really, since no one tried to bring in Dawn or Chris. :P"
Someone call?
That's one...
now where Dawn. I need a good, old fashioned "stop bringing me into this!" rant to make this complete.
now where Dawn. I need a good, old fashioned "stop bringing me into this!" rant to make this complete.
I think she's caught up in ADWD....Which I guess I should be too...hmmmm
Aw damnit.
Alright, that's a wrap people. We'll try this again when Dawn gets back.
Alright, that's a wrap people. We'll try this again when Dawn gets back.
☠The Dread Pirate Grant☠ wrote: "Stop reading. Skip the thread. Click it and back out. Whatever ya have to do to make yourself happy, well go ahead and do so. We're not hurting anyone. We're not throwing poo or yelling or cussing one another. We're having a polite intelligent exchange of opinion. Sure, no ones minds are likely to change but neither are we holding anyone down and forcing them to read our various rants. The person who started the original thread hasn't posted since he asked his original question and if he's absent because of our diatribe, I'm sorry. Nonetheless, he's not complaining so I don't see why anyone else should. Go eat a brownie :)"Amen times a million.
Ala wrote: "Kevin wrote: "I feel like this whole argument is something that I would start."Not really, since no one tried to bring in Dawn or Chris. :P"
True dat.
Oh and yeah, I'm here. Why the hell are you guys saying my name? Rant rant rant.Good enough? Sorry, my heart just isn't in it. I only am driven to rage when Kevin says my name :)
Hey! I said "I think that.."That wasn't a lie. I was simply wrong.
I was reading Dragons.. Then Hells Kitchen came on.. Then the baby was all "Waaah! Waah! I want to go to bed!" Then it was a commercial.. And voila, here I am.
Or not wrong. Just my timing was off. Wouldn't be the first time.
I just can't watch Hell's Kitchen. Love me some Kitchen Nightmares though
Ala wrote: "You lied to me, Chris.ಠ_ಠ"
This face makes me... just want to... *pinch cheeks*
Ahh, that's better. :D
Yeah.... I haven't really been paying attention. I used to like it, but it pretty much sucks now. I just decided to try it because I saw it was on and hoped it would be good. I like Kitchen Nightmares though, and Masterchef too. Which is on in five minutes... *pops popcorn*
Ala wrote: "I just can't watch Hell's Kitchen. Love me some Kitchen Nightmares though"
I used to love Kitchen Nightmares, until I started looking around real closely at restaurants when I went out to eat....and feeling slightly queasy....and then I decided to stop watching it or I'd never eat out again.
Masterchef!
I used to love Kitchen Nightmares, until I started looking around real closely at restaurants when I went out to eat....and feeling slightly queasy....and then I decided to stop watching it or I'd never eat out again.
Masterchef!
Arts and crafts in school = gone.Space program = gone.
Reality TV = eternal.
Society really has failed.
I keep missing Master Chef, need to DVR it.
also, to certain people from the previous page... that is how you derail a thread. amateurs. :P
also, to certain people from the previous page... that is how you derail a thread. amateurs. :P
Ala wrote: "Hey, HEY.None of that."
I'm not sorry.
Okay, that little interlude above had me almost in tears from laughter! Hot damn, but you all are entertaining! Thanks for the giggle fit :)
you should be, my face hurts now.
(ಠ_ಠ) see?
swollen.
(ಠ_ಠ) see?
swollen.
Fantasy Aficionados
Books mentioned in this topic
The Silver Skull (other topics)Legacy of Kings (other topics)
Wings of Wrath (other topics)
Feast of Souls (other topics)
The Coldfire Trilogy: Black Sun Rising/ When True Night Falls/ Crown of Shadows (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
C.S. Friedman (other topics)C.S. Friedman (other topics)
Anne Bishop (other topics)
Melanie Rawn (other topics)
Steven Brust (other topics)
More...
Hey Leighann-see these cupcakes???? lol
seriously it is like the tenth time everyone has seen this argument...It doesnt have to restart everytime some innocent bystander unknowingly brings up Pullman.....