Fantasy Aficionados discussion
Reading Recommendations
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Ok so im making a list.
I reallllly want to read Monster Hunter Alpha! I just can't pay $15 for an ebook tho...
☠The Dread Pirate Grant☠ wrote: "I reallllly want to read Monster Hunter Alpha! I just can't pay $15 for an ebook tho..."That looks like a great series. If I only didn't sleep...i could.read all night.
☠The Dread Pirate Grant☠ wrote: "I reallllly want to read Monster Hunter Alpha! I just can't pay $15 for an ebook tho..."I feel the same way...but it's part three! And it's one month and 1 week early! *whines*
Ok, I've had a long day. been up since 5:00 am. I'm going to bed now. I'm going to assume that you all can play together nicely.
When I get up in the morning, you guys better not have been fighting and your rooms better be clean! If not, there will be a major round of PTB conferences (parent to bottom).
And don't try to have Maggie cover for you either.
I. Will. Know.
*gives everyone the eagle eye*
☠The Dread Pirate Grant☠ wrote: "Mach, I recommend you look up Pullman and his reasons for writing. He freely admits to why he writes and what his hopes are. I totally respect your being willing to read authors regardless of the..."He pretty much says that he wants to undermine christian belief. Something i for one couldn't care less about. But i understand why as a christian that upsets you though.
MrsJ wrote, "*gives everyone the stank eagle eye*"
:D
:D
No worries, Mrs J. I'm here now! Have a good sleep. LOL
Hey bro, is it bigotry and hatred because it's anti-theistic in nature? Or did he say something akin to 'bible thumpers need to die' or something similar?
Poor Gabriel - he just wanted a list of recommendations and instead got quite the debate. Having read neither I will not weigh in but I will suggest that we give the poor guy back his thread and move the religious debate to another thread.
*ducks*
Both the first and second of your examples apply, bro. He's spoken along both lines. What makes it bigotry, in my mind tho, is that he is completely intolerant of theistic views and openly rabidly hostile towards Christians. Moreso, his books are written to undermine theism and specifically Christianity (Catholicism to be Really specific). Just look up some of his quotes.
“My books are about killing God.” The Sydney Morning Herald
“…[the angel] said quietly, 'The Authority, God the Creator, the Lord, Yahweh, El, Adoni, the King, the Father, the Almighty – those were the names he gave himself. He was never the creator. He was an angel like ourselves – the first angel, true, the most powerful, but he was formed of Dust as we are … The first angels condensed out of Dust, and the Authority was the first of all. He told all who came after him that he had created them, but it was a lie.’” (The Amber Spyglass pp. 33-34)
I mean he's using specifially Christian and Jewish names for God and telling kids, some of which I'm sure are Of those faiths, that their God is a liar and a fallacy. And doing it with a Fantasy book! *growls and foams at the mouth in anger*
The guy literally has a vendetta and people say it's okay. If you take his same views and apply them towards gender or race the world would be in an uproar.
“My books are about killing God.” The Sydney Morning Herald
“…[the angel] said quietly, 'The Authority, God the Creator, the Lord, Yahweh, El, Adoni, the King, the Father, the Almighty – those were the names he gave himself. He was never the creator. He was an angel like ourselves – the first angel, true, the most powerful, but he was formed of Dust as we are … The first angels condensed out of Dust, and the Authority was the first of all. He told all who came after him that he had created them, but it was a lie.’” (The Amber Spyglass pp. 33-34)
I mean he's using specifially Christian and Jewish names for God and telling kids, some of which I'm sure are Of those faiths, that their God is a liar and a fallacy. And doing it with a Fantasy book! *growls and foams at the mouth in anger*
The guy literally has a vendetta and people say it's okay. If you take his same views and apply them towards gender or race the world would be in an uproar.
I just don't think it's okay for someone to write books for kids that tell them things like that anymore than I think it's okay for a theist to write a book aimed directly at kids raised in an athiest household telling them they're going to burn in hell or other drivel like that. It's just not cool.
Whoops. I just read your post, Leighann. You're right. I'll hush :) I'll be glad to argue via pm though
☠The Dread Pirate Grant☠ wrote: "I just don't think it's okay for someone to write books for kids that tell them things like that anymore than I think it's okay for a theist to write a book aimed directly at kids raised in an athi..."
Ahh, k. Now I see your point.
Personally, I'm of the mind that anyone can write about whatever they feel like. Doesn't mean I'll ever bother reading them, though.
To each their own and all that.
Ahh, k. Now I see your point.
Personally, I'm of the mind that anyone can write about whatever they feel like. Doesn't mean I'll ever bother reading them, though.
To each their own and all that.
Oh I'm no book burner, bro. I totally agree that anyone can write anything they want. I just also think that I have a right to say their work is shit
Most definitely.
Oh, hell. I skipped a few posts in the thread. Now I know what's going on.
my bad.
Carry on, carry on.
nothing really matters....
Oh, hell. I skipped a few posts in the thread. Now I know what's going on.
my bad.
Carry on, carry on.
nothing really matters....
I've only read the first book, but it seemed like it to me.
Arshad wrote: "Getting back to the actual point of this thread, what do people think of Anne Bishop and her Black Jewels series? Would that be considered Epic Fantasy? Certainly it concerns earth..."I don't really like it, but I'd say it qualifies, yes.
I loathed it, but hey, put it on the list.
yeah-Black Jewels would definitely be fantasy...but it's hard to recommend anything with that level of porn involved....and Ms J...I wasn't even here! I left before you did...I swear!
I agree with the consensus that Black Jewels is a poor series. On the other hand, Fionavar Tapestry is Wonderful.
My only thing is when the genres mix too much - the reason I haven't read the black Jewels (plus a major spoiler was in a blog I follow). I like my genre to be clearly different. If it's erotica then be erotica but don't try to pass as something else. It makes me judge the work more harshly.
And it had the biggest Mary-Sue in the universe...
Valerie wrote: "And it had the biggest Mary-Sue in the universe..."I know what this term means, but I am not sure I have ever encountered one. How can you tell?
☠The Dread Pirate Grant☠ wrote: "On the other hand, Fionavar Tapestry is Wonderful."
I dunno if I'd say it was 'wonderful'.
Did you read it back when it was published? I read it recently and it seemed a bit dated. Still enjoyable enough, though.
I dunno if I'd say it was 'wonderful'.
Did you read it back when it was published? I read it recently and it seemed a bit dated. Still enjoyable enough, though.
Lol...It's one of my favs. 4 to 5 stars. Of course I enjoy most everything by Kay
Scott wrote: "Valerie wrote: "And it had the biggest Mary-Sue in the universe..."I know what this term means, but I am not sure I have ever encountered one. How can you tell?"
Let's see... if the character is stunningly beautiful/handsome, incredibly powerful, has many, many friends, and has hardly any flaws (and if they are, they're something to the extent of "has a bad temper"), then they're probably a Sue/Stu. Everyone who loves the main character is Good; everyone who doesn't like the main character is Bad. The character probably has a Tragic Past.
Jaenelle fits almost all of this criteria. There's more, though - Google "Mary Sue Litmus Test".
Tracey wrote: "Ah - found it. From limyaael's fantasy rants: "You haven't lived until you've read about a telepathic collie and tiger discussing how happy they are that the Lady's mate has shown up."I don't kn..."
lol!
Wow...excuse me while I wipe away the blood here on the inside of my computer monitor (or maybe it's a computer merrimac???) anyway, I have to "largely" agree with Grant. I find Pullman rather offensive, of course I love kids so that might prejudice me against his books. While I might not get as emphatic, I've pretty much written Mr. Pullman's works off as a lost cause.
C.S.Lewis writes Christian propaganda huh??? Interesting take but it's a free country and you're obviously free to hold your opinion. I will point out that Lewis was always right up front about what he was writing. I wasn't aware of the underlying ideas in The Golden Compass. The series is now, His Dark Materials, a line from (Paradise Lost) and that is a bit more open. Only a bit. Not a lot of kids have read Paradise Lost, and sadly few parents have today... Oh well. Anyway at first I was under the impression the Pullman books were simply YA fantasy. Of course I discovered differently.
The thing is I found that while I disagree strongly with the ideas put forward, I'm not all that taken with the books either. Of course I admit some of that could be the distaste I have for the attitude...
Oh and as for "Bible Thumper" (at first I thought that might be a religious rabbit), I've been called that. You know I never "thump" my Bible, it wears it out so much faster than just reading it.
Gabriel (if he hasn't been scared off) might also benefit from looking at Rothfuss's list posted in the other thread: http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/2011/...
I would like to recommend Trudi Canavan's books She's always been a favourite of mine. Her Black Magician Trilogy (The Magicians' Guild, The Novice and The High Lord) is, I thought, a fantastic read as well as her follow on series, The Traitor Spy trilogy ( The Ambassador's Mission and The Rogue. She's working on the third one)I also liked her Age of Five series, (Priestess of the White, Last of the Wilds and Voice of the Gods)
I have The Magician's Guild to read. So many books....
Wow. I had no idea Pullman was that anti-Christian. I kind of liked the books, and was rather drawn to the idea of Dust, but it never occured to me he was really insulting anyone's beliefs. I generally tend to get caught up in the fantasy worlds while reading, and don't often make the link with the outside world. I can't really dislike the books now I know, though. We all have a right to express our religion or lack thereof in writing, no? I can understand why Christian parents wouldn't give these books to their kids, though.
Ah, well. Recommendation time!
Jules Watson's The White Mare and sequels (Dalriada Trilogy). Really liked these.
Jacqueline Carey's Kushiel's Dart and sequels (Kushiel's Legacy series). Truly amazing.
Also, Tad Williams' City of Golden Shadow and the rest of the Otherland series.
Ooh, I second the Otherland series. It took me forever to read them, but it was worth it. I've been meaning to re-read them too. Maybe this time I'll actually be able to figure out how to pronounce !Xabbu. >.>
Laura wrote: "I would like to recommend Trudi Canavan's books She's always been a favourite of mine. Her Black Magician Trilogy (The Magicians' Guild, The Novice and [book:The High Lord..."I've read the Magician's Guild after having it recommended to me. It was one of the most boring books I've ever read unfortunately ... I just found the writing really bland and both the characters and the world totally uninteresting. But what really bothered me was: (view spoiler)
I've also been told the later books get better, but I honeslty can't be bothered to find out.
LMAOFor an epic read, with drama, fiery characters, conflict and a roller coaster of a read. You should read this story
Lee wrote: "LMAOFor an epic read, with drama, fiery characters, conflict and a roller coaster of a read. You should read this story"
lol!
Funny Lee-I was thinking the same thing!
An wrote: "I generally tend to get caught up in the fantasy worlds while reading, and don't often make the link with the outside world.."I like this, this is what I do too.
i love The Fionavar Tapestry! great recommendation.also, having just read this thread for the first time, i have to say...go, Archbishop of Canterbury! at last, a Christian who gets that His Dark Materials is not anti-faith...no matter how anti-faith the author actually is.
i understand that it can be a challenge to separate an author's views from the works they put out. it makes it even more challenging when the author (say, Orson Scott Card) is pretty stridently vocal about his beliefs in other forums. Pullman is clearly trying to provoke when he says his book is about killing God, because that is simply not the case (view spoiler)
mark wrote: "i love The Fionavar Tapestry! great recommendation.also, having just read this thread for the first time, i have to say...go, Archbishop of Canterbury! at last, a Christian who gets that His Da..."
I'm a fan of Card's, and while I don't share his beliefs, I still really enjoy his novels, and I don't think they're too "preachy". Now, his blog on the other hand gets pretty vocal about it sometimes, I agree.
good point kit, and personally relevant to me. reminds me of a caveat i meant to add to my original post. my happy feelings about the Archbishop of Canterbury notwithstanding, i actually understand/respect why christians would not read any pullman.
to use myself & Orson Scott Card as an example: i am a queer; OSC is vocally anti-gay marriage. although i'm confident that OSC doesn't include anti-gay marriage tracts within his novels, the fact that he is personally so against something that i feel is near & dear to me, something that i feel is my right...well, that makes me loathe to support the author in any way and gives me a creepy-crawly feeling when thinking about reading his books. so i just don't read them. personally speaking: fuck OSC! but that is because i am personally involved.
and so i get why christians would have no interest in His Dark Materials, because of their understandable, visceral reaction to the belief system of the author. i think to many christians who are considering pullman and his stance on organized religion, the idea of separating the author and their works is pointless - along the lines of Who Cares, I Hate The Author's Perspective So Why Should I Bother About His Books? so although there are many differences between pullman's pov and the message of HDM, there is still that idea of not supporting the works of a person who attacks the core of a person or their community. which is exactly why i have such mixed feelings about ever reading any OSC in the future.
Well, the big difference Mark is that His Dark Materials is a fairly open attack on Christianity or at least certain denominations. The fact that it's intended as YA material is also of concern as Christian parents may not want the indoctrination for their children. (In my case I tried to read the books my kids read and discuss them. It seemed to make more sense than adding the "mystique" of the forbidden LOL). On the other hand you could probably enjoy Card's novels (some of them anyway...there are several I just don't care for) and never know his views. I assume that the rational for not buying his novels would be more along the lines of not supporting his cause. That is up to each person. I do buy books from people who's views I disagree with. If it became obvious I was somehow supporting decimation of those ideas it might make a difference.
Maybe you could read his books from the library :) LOL.
I never said Pullman didn't have a right to publish, I even said I didn't "throw myself" between the books and my kids. I only said I don't like them and understand why some parents don't want their kids to read them (a parental responsibility). The view's behind HDM weren't widely known until the movie sort of brought it up. I knew because I had already picked them up years beforehand. Lewis never pretended his books were anything but Christian based, Tolkien even felt they were too heavy handed about it. LOL.Personally (as noted before) I think when kids are old enough it might be a better course for the books to be read and discussed, if the kids want to read them. Some won't care for them on a simple "didn't like the story" level. I felt it was fairly weak also.
No. I'm big on freedom, I'm also big on responsibility. I never said Pullman's books should be censored in any way, I did and do say I don't care for them.
Fantasy Aficionados
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Authors mentioned in this topic
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^This, lol
yeah, I've never heard of it before but Baen seems to do it. But since they are the publisher...I guess it's cool.