Fans of Norah Lofts discussion
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Books For Potential Group Discussion Archived 2019
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Karyl
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Jan 15, 2014 04:29PM
yes--harking back to my "all time favorite" How Far To Bethlehem, I almost go looking for the characters in Bible references, they seem so real to me.
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Sylvia wrote: "Hi Cindy! Oh, I think this is going to be a fun discussion! Karyl is right about all the distinct characters. Once you read NL's books, those people become so real, they seem like your ancestors..."I can't lay hands on 2 or 3, due to money woes, nor afford postage, I'll have to wait, but I will enjoy reading about the further adventures of the knight and his foreign lady, their baby, the wife and the two sons....
Cindy, have you considered trying to get the books through your local public library? If they don't own copies, they might be able to borrow them for you from another library that does (that's called interlibrary loan). My suggestion would definitely be to look into that!
I have :( our locals have none of the books, and I mean all 3 in our area. It's a crying shame. I should do the interlibrary loan that you suggest. I don't know why I didn't think of it. I've done with another book some time back. Thank you very much! :D
I must ask. I cannot stop myself. Has anyone else here tried their hand at a "Lovers all Untrue" fanfiction? Does anyone else feel like going through the book and throttling Jonathon Draper? Am I the only one who fantasizes about various ways to do him in? I spent hours on the internet researching fail-safe ways to off old Papa Draper. After my husband Hoss read it, he found on the internet, the Madeline Smith true story upon which the book was loosely based and he agreed that Papa needed to bite the big one. We are now working on a believable "Marion offs Papa" fanfiction. Input? :D
Cindy wrote: "I should do the interlibrary loan that you suggest. I don't know why I didn't think of it."You're welcome, Cindy! Leave it to a librarian to think of that; at the college library where I work, handling interlibrary loans is one of my (many) jobs. :-)
Cindy, we actually finished a group discussion of Lovers All Untrue early in 2013. There are four discussion threads under the topic, including one on the Madeline Smith case, which we didn't pursue. If you will go to the top of this page, on the right below NL's photo, you will see the word Discussions. Click on the word, and you will be taken to our list of topics. Lovers All Untrue is toward the bottom of this list. Even though we concluded our discussion of this book, you are welcome to open the thread and add your comments.Our forum is currently planning to discuss some of NL's books for which there are yet no separate threads. The Knight's Acre trilogy is one of those, and we may be concentrating on these three books for several months.
Cindy, your fanfiction on Mr. Draper sounds interesting; let us know when you finish it!
Cindy, the one thought I'd have on your possible fan fiction is that any time you use characters and situations, etc. created by another writer (as fan fiction does), legally you have to have the permission of the copyright holder, unless the original work in in the public domain. Most works written after 1922, at least in the U.S., are still under copyright; but the law in the UK may be different. Our fellow group member, Maggy at Tree of Life Publishing, should be able to tell you the current copyright status of NL's books. (Otherwise, your project sounds great!)
There's nothing about that at Fanfiction.net or any of the other fanfiction sites. It's all "come as you are and write for your own enjoyment and the enjoyment of other fans of the author/genre/what-have-you" There's no copyright worry due to the intrinsic nature of fanfiction. "We're all adoring fans here". I honestly thought that everyone knew about this... Did you perhaps mistakenly think that I was going for a published work? [I have already written 2 totally original sci-fi works] :D
Peggy wrote: "Cindy, your fanfiction on Mr. Draper sounds interesting; let us know when you finish it!":D will do :D tonight I am working on a drabble where I toss the so-and-so out a window. Very cathartic! XD
Sylvia wrote: "Cindy, we actually finished a group discussion of Lovers All Untrue early in 2013. There are four discussion threads under the topic, including one on the Madeline Smith case, which we didn't purs..."okey dokey, thanks for the directions! Must go over that discussion. Might make my thinker work better :D
Cindy, it doesn't surprise me at all that the site owners at sites like Fanfiction.net don't publicize any information about copyright laws, and that most fans wouldn't know it (maybe some site owners don't either). Whether you intend to profit from a fan fiction or not, the author of the original work (or, in NL's case, the copyright holder, who probably would be her son Clive) has a legal right to determine how they want their work used. Not all copyright holders object to fan fiction (the holders of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer franchise even published an anthology of what they considered good-quality fan fictions!) and most writers of it have only good intentions, as you do. (Though there are horrible exceptions, like the author of 50 Shades of Grey, who originally published her "novel" as a pornographic perversion of the Twilight series on a fanfiction site, and then changed the names to avoid a lawsuit.) But it's just as well to be aware of copyright, and to respect it --even if not as a matter of law (and lawsuits are relatively rare, though they happen), then as a matter of professional courtesy, from one writer to another.
The search for the real title for our upcoming trilogy goes on, Sylvia has written to Hodder and Stoughton, and agreed to take their say so as the correct one . We will contact Maggy at Tree of Life publishing who has reissued NL books when this is done.Meanwhile Sylvia suggests we go with "The Knight's Acre Trilogy" as being the most unambiguous, title, which makes sense, doesn't it .
Sylvia wrote: "Hi Cindy! Oh, I think this is going to be a fun discussion! Karyl is right about all the distinct characters. Once you read NL's books, those people become so real, they seem like your ancestors..."I Have an extra paperback of "The Lonely Furrow" that I would love to get into the hands of someone who needs it for this discussion. Free + Minimal postage.
Werner wrote: "Cindy, it doesn't surprise me at all that the site owners at sites like Fanfiction.net don't publicize any information about copyright laws, and that most fans wouldn't know it (maybe some site own..."Then first thing tomorrow morning I'll set about looking for Clive, in the meantime, though, my husband and I have something to occupy our creativity. What no one else sees, can't be held against us :D
True, Cindy; go ahead and have fun with it! Maggy's publishing company has reprinted some of NL's novels; so if you message her, she should be able to tell you whether or not they're in the public domain, and give you Clive's contact information if they're not.
Maggy told us (or possibly just me during some correspondence)that Tree of Life Publishing now owns all the rights to Norah Lofts' work. Tree of Life is in the process of reprinting all of NL's books,many of which are available on Amazon - BRAND NEW!
Werner wrote: "True, Cindy; go ahead and have fun with it! Maggy's publishing company has reprinted some of NL's novels; so if you message her, she should be able to tell you whether or not they're in the public..."Werner AND Sylvia - :D :D Thank you! Information I needed!! :D
Re Madeline Smith, did you know that she moved to New York and died there in 1928, in her nineties? (What I knew of her was what I learned in the film starring Anne Todd, which was enough to enable me to recognize the case in LAU, and it was bemusing to realize that she lived from the mid-Victorian era through most of the Roaring Twenties!)
no, I didn't know that, and I'm glad to learn it. Must look up that film :D
Mary wrote: "Re Madeline Smith, did you know that she moved to New York and died there in 1928, in her nineties? (What I knew of her was what I learned in the film starring Anne Todd, which was enough to enabl..."There actually is a "Scottish Murder' thread Mary,click on 'Fans of Norah Lofts' at the top left of this page and you will see the list come up.
Cindy I think you already know about it don't you?
.
I looked at the older thread and had forgotten that I had commented on it. Quite embarrassing. But I reacquainted myself with the thread and my own remarks, anyhow. I read up on it further, on the internet, and even saw clips from the 1950 movie. I'm good now. :D Bless all of you for being so forbearing with my memory which is like a steel bear sieve :D :P
No probs at all Cindy . It's interesting to go to old threads I think and find things you said that you didn't even know you knew! A ex member on these boards once said she actually didn't too much mind that her memory had gone AWOL as she could re-read favourite books with impunity.
Not long now to KA trilogy discussion......
Hello, All! I plan to join the group read beginning Feb.1st.
Great, Cynthia! Looking forward to everyone's input. Six days to start up!
Thanks to Sylvia's kindness, I was able to read "The Homecoming". Oh I am going to descend on our poor local libraries like a locust. I pity them. People, I'm not a nice little girl who sits pretty and reads a book. I devour them. I don't put them down until the last word is read. If it isn't red hot, nailed down or in the hands of someone bigger than me, I'm devouring it. Dang good story 2 books in. I can wait the 5 more days, but I am heck to live with :D :D
Speaking of libraries, I would like to recommend a series of 13 videos that were made in the 90s and were shown in the USA on PBS. If anything on TV can take you back to the world inhabited by NL's books, it is this series, "Cadfael" starring Derek Jacoby as Cadfael, a knight and Crusader to Jerusalem, who returns to England and joins the Shrewsbury Abbey. Bro. Cadfael makes a study of medicines and treats the sick. He is often searching in the woods (a perfect picture of Layer Wood) for plants, and his deductive skills help him serve the sheriff in solving crimes. You see manor houses, abbeys, furnishings, clothing, tools, armor, weapons, and hear the songs and instruments of Medieval England, all, I think, authentically reproduced. I have borrowed and interlibrary-loaned whole sets of series. I hope some of you will be able to locate "Cadfael"!
Sylvia, I was a big fan of the Cadfael episodes on PBS' Mystery!, which are based on the novels by Dame Edith Pargeter (writing under the pen name Ellis Peters). I've also read the series opener, A Morbid Taste for Bones (which wasn't the first episode the series adapted, and they set it later in Cadfael's monastic career), as well as An Excellent Mystery. (I don't know if there's an adaptation of that one or not; what with my work schedule, I didn't see every episode.) They're set at the other side of England from NL's beloved Suffolk, on the border of Wales; but you're right that the medieval cultural milieu is very like that of her medieval novels.
Werner, an episode in the second series is actually titled "A Morbid Taste for Bones" but "An Excellent Mystery" is not listed as a title in the series of 13. I knew it took place near Wales because a lot of people make their escape from hangings, torture, etc. by getting over the border!Another film to get one "in the mood" of the Middle Ages is "The Name of the Rose" starring Sean Connery. In it you will see the likes of an ancient library you could never imagine. Werner, have you seen that one, and was a library like that monastery's ever discovered?
Sylvia, I've seen part of the movie (not all of it --I tuned into part of it by accident on TV years ago), and the book is on my to-read list. I don't remember that much about the library (except that it seemed large). But I do know that in the Middle Ages, a lot of the best libraries in Europe were the ones attached to monasteries. The monks actively collected books, to preserve them, and diligently worked on making more handwritten copies of the Bible and other books.
This library was, I believe, hidden, or parts of it were, and it seemed to be 3 or 4 stories high and almost like a labyrinth. One book in particular was the cause of many murders - a very surprising plot. I should have warned that the movie is R-rated, very explicit, and cruelly informative of how people were treated like animals, accused of witchcraft because they were mentally disabled or ignorant. I don't think it took place in England, maybe Italy or Spain. I think it is an excellent story of the Middle Ages.Regarding our imminent read of the Knight's Acre trilogy, I think "Cadfael" and "The Name of the Rose" are historically correct depictions of the times of the Tallboys family.
The Name of the Rose is set in Italy (the author, Umberto Eco, is Italian) in 1327. I knew that the movie depicted the grossly unfair way that people were railroaded to death sentences for witchcraft during the late medieval and early modern witch hysteria in Europe (which actually began around 1450, was at its peak in the 16th and 17th centuries, and tapered off after 1700). The setting of The Name of the Rose is really a little too early for genuine witch hysteria, but I don't know whether or not Eco knew that when he wrote it.
I loved the Brother Cadfael series. The books and the PBS programs.
Well chaps, back to the discussion at hand, ie The KA trilogy, not long now, is everybody ready with copies at hand next to the computer and all?
I'm bringing it downstairs so I'll be ready on Feb. 1.
Well, all is in train and KA discussion underway so I though it might be useful to post a "how to do a spoiler" hiding thing in case anyone is unaware of how or forgot or whatever . I find it really useful myself I must say. I'll have to write it out in a cumbersome way because if I actually show the instructions it thinks I am actually doing a spoiler and will hide it, if you see what I mean. So, type in, without spaces, the following Leftfacing arrow spoiler rightfacing arrow words you want to hide left facing arrow slash spoiler rightfacing arrow.
(Write the actual word spoiler, this doesn't refer to your spoiling comment, that's indicated by my saying 'words you want to hide')
And then it will appear like this
(view spoiler)
Well dear fellow NL fans, where are we up to with this ? Ready for another group read I hope/suspect . Any suggestions or revisiting of old suggestions?
Barbara wrote: "Well dear fellow NL fans, where are we up to with this ? Ready for another group read I hope/suspect . Any suggestions or revisiting of old suggestions?"
I recall that there's a plan to have a group of read of Hester Roone(?) in August. Is that correct?
As I recall, the idea that had been kicked around earlier was to have a group read of Hester Roon in July, followed by A Wayside Tavern in August. If we do that, I'll plan to take part, as my vacation schedule allows. (There are a couple of weeks in that time frame when I'll be out of town with limited Internet access.)
I will vote for the two book plan Werner recalled, mostly because I have both books in large print! I also like the idea of July, since August seems so far away.
Sounds good to me! Now , any takers for a leading one or other of those discussions?
I think Werner and Donna would do a marvelous job--any interest??
I can participate in both book reads, but I will be traveling from mid-July to mid-Aug. (escaping our oppressive heat for a while) and would prefer not to serve as leader. I promise I will for a subsequent group read.
As I recall, I led one of our discussions several years ago; and I'm willing to do so again, to the best of my ability, if you all want me to given the vagaries of my schedule. (I'll be on vacation the weeks of July 7 and Aug. 4, and largely offline for blocs of time around those weeks, though probably only for five days or so at a time. I'll also probably be borrowing the books by ILL, though I'll try to place my requests ahead of time.) Which one of the two would you like me to lead?
Have you read either of these, Werner? Hester Roon begins in England and ends in America, late 18th century, I think. Wayside Tavern begins with the end of the Roman occupation in Britain, and ends in the 20th century. Would you have a preference?
No, Sylvia, I haven't read either one. But A Wayside Tavern was already on my to-read shelf before we discussed the group reads this time around, because Barbara had recommended it to me some time ago as a must-read.
I agree with Barbara that Wayside is a Lofts "must-read"! Her saga brings England's history out of the mist. I always think of Wayside Tavern as the beginnings of the clearing of the land in Suffolk that becomes NL's Layer Wood region.I think you would be a great leader for this discussion if you don't think it will interfere with your vacation times.
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