Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
Book & Author Page Issues
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Please fix
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11...The errors that need fixing are...
The cover should be http://d28hgpri8am2if.cloudfront.net/boo... (please use that one as it will give the best possible cover image when it's reduced down)
The publisher is Pocket Books. Simon & Schuster Adult Publishing Group never publishes Star Trek books/eBooks.
And the page number is always wrong as it's the print number. The proper page number is 318. And please don't make me have to take yet another Adobe Digital Editions screen grab to have to prove the page number. Just take my word for it.
Thanks.
Posting the same request to multiple threads doesn't make the librarians work any faster. We all get notifications on ALL the threads, so we just see it multiple times...and we fix what we can verify. If the B&N info is coming through incorrectly, it will continue to do so, and will continue to need manual correction.My understanding is that B&N get the info from the publisher. They aren't making it up as they go. If it is this upsetting to you, you might try complaining to the publisher, or B&N.
Beth wrote: "Posting the same request to multiple threads doesn't make the librarians work any faster. We all get notifications on ALL the threads, so we just see it multiple times...and we fix what we can ver..."I deleted the other thread and moved the request here as I didn't like the way the thread was going. My fault really. And I figured the best thing to do was to delete it and start over without the kind of harsh tone.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11...I just noticed one other error. Sorry for missing it the first time.
The title is incorrect and should be Children of the Storm (Star Trek: Voyager)
I just want to make it known that the first post of this thread is for a different book that needs some fixing. Thanks.
JSWolf wrote: "http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/93...This book needs a few fixes. The description should be replaced with (I got it from the author's website)...
Hannah alr..."
I looked at the authors website and it appears that the description you quoted refers to the Special Edition Hardback and not the eBook version.
JSWolf wrote: "The publisher is Pocket Books. Simon & Schuster Adult Publishing Group never publishes Star Trek books/eBooks."Pocket Books is a division of Simon & Schuster. Simon & Schuster, as a part of the CBS corporation, is the primary publisher of books relating to CBS Media which includes Star Trek. So technically both Simon & Schuster and Pocket Books would be correct for this book.
But not Simon & Schuster Adult Publishing Group. That is wrong for sure.
JSWolf wrote: "But not Simon & Schuster Adult Publishing Group. That is wrong for sure."http://www.simonandschuster.biz/divis...
Vicky wrote: "I looked at the authors website and it appears that the description you quoted refers to the Special Edition Hardback and not the eBook version."It also applies to the eBook edition as it also has the short story. The eBook came out after the special edition hardcover and the short story was included. I read it recently. But even if you disagreed with the description, the page numbering should have been changed to 329 as that's correct regardless of the description which is also correct.
I feel like I have to fight to get changes made. I put in corrections and then have to defend them or prove them to be correct. Why?
I, personally, tend to not change pages for eBooks, which is why I didn't make that change. There are too many variables about who is reading them on what, especially if it is a .ePub file and not a Nook/Kindle edition. It's not that I don't believe you, I just shy away from changing page numbers.As Beth said earlier, Goodreads gets their information from B&N/Amazon which comes directly from the publishers and I'm sure they have their own reasons why the official description or publisher is listed as it is. Again, it's not that I don't believe you, it's just that before I (and I'm sure I speak for quite a few other librarians as well) want to verify the change by looking up that specific ISBN/ASIN through WorldCat and/or Amazon/B&N, and if I can't verify it, I question the change.
I corrected some bad html in the description and made the page number change according to the publishers information here:http://books.simonandschuster.com/Sta...
I do appreciate your answer and want to thank you for it. One thing that has bothered me is when changes have been said to have been made and yet they were not completely made. I'd rather a change be said not to be made then the changes said to be made but something is not. And if it's not made, I'd like to know why so if I need to explain something, I can. Like the descriptions for Chocolate Chip Cookie Murder. I got a good explanation and was able to explain things.Now, let's move onto page numbers.
non-enhanced nook books are ePub. B&N uses ADE to view them. ADE supports page numbers. Sony uses ADE as well. Kobo uses ADE. ADE is Adobe Digital Editions. ADE has page numbers that are independent of font size. So making the text a different size does not change page numbers. I use the ADE page numbers as they are the only consistent page numbers we have for ePub.
Kindle editions is a completely different format and have different page numbers if they do. I cannot say how many do or do not have page numbers added.
Listings for eBooks that have page numbers usually list the print edition page numbers and thus are incorrect. I don't know about Amazon's page numbers in their listings for their eBooks that have page numbers.
B&N is not always correct as you can tell by page numbers. Covers is another issue. If you get an imported cover from B&N and the cover is not clear on Goodreads, then it's too small and needs a higher resolution image. If there are rounded corners, then the cover needs a new image as eBook covers are with sharp corners ala paper books.
I think one problem is that there aren't many librarians that know eBooks all that well and go with the information that GoodReads pulls down from B&N and/or Amazon. I have applied to be a librarian but was turned down because of past perceived arguments with librarians.
I just had a look for the two books that I asked to have changed using Worldcat and Worldcat does not list the eBook editions. The other problem is if you use B&N or Amazon and they are incorrect, then you'll see the errors and not know they are incorrect.
I hope this helps on both sides of the fence.
Sincerely,
Jon
P.S. I'd like to know if the changes to the first book in this thread are going to be made
I am versed in ebooks...I actually made a couple of changes to ebook pages when I first became a librarian, based on what I was seeing on my device (and I use nook, kindle, ibooks, and overdrive). Luckily, I only did it a couple of times, before I realized that my page numbers sometimes, but not often, change, even as I'm reading the book...without my changing any settings. So the ebook numbers are not set in stone, with or without font changes. I don't know why the fluctuate, but they do.Which is why I do not change the ebook numbers from what info the publishers provide to b&n and amazon. I can get screen shots, but the info in the screen shot will vary, depending on where I am in the book...they tend to be within 10-15 pages difference, but they vary.
The last information I saw from a super was when rivka said that for now, we go with the "official" page numbers, rather than change them, based on reader/member "corrections."
Beth wrote: "Which is why I do not change the ebook numbers from what info the publishers provide to b&n and amazon. " and
"The last information I saw from a super was when rivka said that for now, we go with the "official" page numbers, rather than change them, based on reader/member "corrections." "
If not from the publisher, where would you get the "official" page numbers?
Mod
I think we need to come up with a standard on how page numbers should be decided for ebooks.Most publishers I've seen tend to use the page count that the PDF version lists. But lately a few people here have been using the ePub format to decide page numbers. I think we need to figure out which file the page numbers should come from.
Rivka has said in the past that both PDF & epubs can be used for ebook page numbers.
Mod
OK, then, and thanks for the clarification. Always learning something.Just for the record, in the case of the Star Trek request in this thread, I went to the publisher's website, noted the page count shown there, and changed back to 432 the page count on this book.
rivka wrote: "And I stand by that. Especially since in those cases where both are used for a given work, they two ebook editions usually have their own ISBNs. In most other cases, one or the other is preferentially used by the publisher. Or there's no official pagination."Sure would be convenient if publishers would settle on some sort of industry standard based on word count... something like a "total words / industry-standard-words-per-page = number of pages" formula... ***sigh*** just wishful thinking, I'm afraid... :(
Mod
Beth wrote: "I am versed in ebooks...I actually made a couple of changes to ebook pages when I first became a librarian, based on what I was seeing on my device (and I use nook, kindle, ibooks, and overdrive). ..."iBooks does change the page numbering based on the font size. The Kindle I cannot speak of, but Mobipocket Reader has a bug in page numbers as does all Mobipocket implementations. So that's out. But ADE is one program that has no bug in the page numbers. I've read countless eBooks using ADE and there is no change in the page numbering. It works very well. This is where I get my page numbers from for ePub. There isn't a change at all as I am reading. The number of pages stays the same from page 1 to the last page.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Beth wrote: "Which is why I do not change the ebook numbers from what info the publishers provide to b&n and amazon. " and
"The last information I saw from a super was when rivka said that f..."
The problem is that the page number given is for the paper book, not the eBook. So it's wrong. The ePub and the paper editions will have different numbers.
You'll have to take that up with the publisher.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "OK, then, and thanks for the clarification. Always learning something.Just for the record, in the case of the Star Trek request in this thread, I went to the publisher's website, noted the page..."
Now you've just made it incorrect. That's the print version page number. The correct page number is 318. Do I have to show yet again another ADE screen grab to prove this? Rivka said it's OK to use the ePub page number and you've just gone and put in the wrong page number. Please fix. No publisher uses the correct page number for an ePub. They just put in the page number for the paper book. The only way to get the correct page number is to load the ePub into ADE and you then get the correct page number. They don't do that. They just take most of the information from the print edition and use that including the wrong page number.
James wrote: "rivka wrote: "And I stand by that. Especially since in those cases where both are used for a given work, they two ebook editions usually have their own ISBNs. In most other cases, one or the other ..."They have. ADE is the industry standard for viewing ePub. It has page numbers based on the ePub. So you have what you are asking for.
Sandra wrote: "Rivka has said in the past that both PDF & epubs can be used for ebook page numbers."rivka wrote: "And I stand by that. Especially since in those cases where both are used for a given work, they two ebook editions usually have their own ISBNs. In most other cases, one or the other is preferentia..."
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "You'll have to take that up with the publisher."
No, I'm taking that up with you who just took a correction and uncorrected it. Did you not read that Rivka allows ePub page numbering to be used? I just quoted here the relevant bits too. I just got done saying that I feel like I have to fight to get corrections made and I'm still feeling that way because I am fighting for the corrections. Please put the correct information in and not the incorrect information. Why did you feel the need to undo a correction?
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/93...This book needs a few fixes. The description should be replaced with (I got it from the author's website)...
Hannah already has her hands full trying to dodge her mother's attempts to marry her off, while running The Cookie Jar, Lake Eden's most popular bakery. But once Ron LaSalle, the beloved delivery man from the Cozy Cow Dairy, is found murdered behind her bakery with Hannah's famous Chocolate Chip Crunches scattered around him, her life just can't get any worse. Determined not to let her cookies get a bad reputation, she sets out to track down a killer. But if she doesn't watch her back, Hannah's sweet life may get burned to a crisp.
In addition to the original novel, this special edition also contains a novella about Hannah and 9 new recipes.
Jo’s written a novella for the special eBook edition of CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIE MURDER and it picks up right where the first book in the Hannah Swensen series ends. The story starts with a question – Who broke into The Cookie Jar on the coldest night of the year? Hannah sets a trap to find out. When she catches the teenage runaway who’s sleeping under the Christmas tree in the coffee shop, she’s faced with even more puzzles. Where did the teenager come from? Is her name really "Candy"? Who taught her how to make the most delicious confections Hannah and Lisa have ever tasted? Hannah and her friends must do some sleuthing to discover Candy’s real identity, learn why she ran away, and get her back home again in time for Christmas with her family.
Also, the page number is incorrect. It should be 329.
None of these listed corrections have been made. Am I still going to have to "fight" to get them made? How many librarians are going to see this and IGNORE it?
rivka wrote: "Sometimes they are available from the publisher's site directly, as opposed to second-hand from Amazon or B&N."The above comment is above, in context of where to get the official page count, which we are to use. Jon, the publisher's website says the page count for the ebook is 432. You are free to argue the point if you wish, but this old lady isn't going to change it.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "rivka wrote: "Sometimes they are available from the publisher's site directly, as opposed to second-hand from Amazon or B&N."The above comment is above, in context of where to get the official ..."
But you did change it. It was correct and you made it incorrect. So how am I going to prove to you that you are wrong? Do you need a screen shot to see the page number or are you going to be stubborn and believe a mistake is correct when it's not?
Why won't anyone fix Chocolate Chip Cookie Murder or even acknowledge why it won't be fixed? There have been multiple librarians here and nobody is bothering to fix this entry. Why? Do I have to start yet another thread on this to get it fixed?
Elizabth (Alaska), for once I agree with JSWolf. If he has the ebook in his possession, why do you disbelieve him? I think the publisher is probably just lazy and filling out a form with, as was said, the paper page number. Which is inaccurate in this case.
With regard to Chocolate Chip Cookie Murder, since it has an extra novella tacked on, should it perhaps be listed as a separate entry? I'd actually be inclined to keep it associated with the other (non-ebook) editions but I'm not sure on the official policy.
Mod
Because it's not a question of disbelief. EVERY USER will have different page numbering for the same ebook, unless they have not only the exact same e-reader, but also ALL the same settings.
Ah, but I thought this was ePub, one of the few ebook formats where the page numbering was always consistent?
Mod
Ah okay, so the issue is that this book listing is not for "ePub," it's just for an ebook. Which could have any number of pages. So when that is the case, we use the publisher's official page count.Sorry to belabor the point, I just want to make sure I'm understanding everything correctly.
ePub or not, they fluctuate. ePub is the one that I use most often, and the page number fluctuates on my device...even when my settings remain the same.
Look, I know it sounds stupid that I did this, but... I went on the library's wait list for an ebook. I was 7 or 8 people back, so that's months of waiting. In the meantime, I bought the book at Kobo. I buy a lot of books so I didn't remember buying it. But, when I went to read it on my ereader- 2 copies. Just to let you know, on that particular book the library copy and the copy I bought had different page numbers. Now, the page numbers themselves for the individual books stayed the same no matter the font sizing. But, two different page counts with 1 GR listing of: edition- ebook. (Non-Kindle) I think that, maybe, for some titles, the publishers are reusing the ISBN for ebooks that are different.
That's been my experience as well, Shay: while a Nook edition will never change total pagecount on my nook, or a library edition never will, the two for any given book usually are never the same. I've never once seen an ePub change the total pagecount on a device like Beth has, luckily--that sounds like a bug, and is not how they're supposed to be functioning.The only time I change pagecounts on eBooks is if the field is a 0, which is unhelpful to anyone. Otherwise I just deal with whatever's there, since it's almost always just 20-ish pages off. It's frustrating sometimes not to have it accurate, but at least it's always been close.
James wrote: Sure would be convenient if publishers would settle on some sort of industry standard based on word count... something like a "total words / industry-standard-words-per-page = number of pages" formula... Publisher do have this formula, which they use in estimating the cost to produce it. However, the end page count varies significantly as a lot of dialogue will cause the page numbers to go up significantly, and no dialogue will cause it to drop. Also a lot of chapter breaks (if they all are on a new page) will increase page count, and even if they are run in, the resulting additional spacing still causes it to increase. There is no direct correlation between word count and page count. The simple basics of spacing, font, and margins have the biggest influence. Sadly, James, you should abandon this wish.
JSWolf wrote: "http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/93...This book needs a few fixes. The description should be replaced with (I got it from the author's website)...
JS - I just looked at the book page you linked to, and the page count says 329 and the book description includes slightly more info than what you posted, but all of what you posted is included in it. So, I made no changes myself, but it looks like what you wanted is all done.
In reference to feeling ignored in this request, probably a better idea to post each request in it's own thread. Since you don't post the name of the book, just a hotlink, which tapers off at a point before the name of the book, most people on the thread get caught up in the existing discussion, and probably don't even notice or can't tell the difference between the books that you're arguing about.
Just a thought...
rivka wrote: "Kerry wrote: "If he has the ebook in his possession, why do you disbelieve him?"Because it's not a question of disbelief. EVERY USER will have different page numbering for the same ebook, unless ..."
Actually, that is incorrect. Adobe Digital Editions uses the same page number no matter the font size. No matter the screen size. ADE for Windows will show me the same page number as will a Sony Reader or a nook or a Kobo or even Bluefire Reader for iOS. They all use ADE and ADE is consistent in it's page numbering. If an ePub eBook in ADE is using the smallest font size in Windows full screen or using the largest font size on a 6" eink screen, I will get the same number of pages. So yes, ADE is consistent in it's page numbering across font sizes, screen sizes, and platforms.
Kerry wrote: "Ah okay, so the issue is that this book listing is not for "ePub," it's just for an ebook. Which could have any number of pages. So when that is the case, we use the publisher's official page cou..."Actually, the publisher doesn't have the correct page number listed. It's the paper edition page number they use.
Take a look at the two listing for Children of the Storm One is the eBook and the other is the paperback. Both have the same page number listed.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/star-...
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Star...
And the page number for the ePub is a mistake as it is the paperback page number, not the proper page number as shown by ADE.
Beth wrote: "ePub or not, they fluctuate. ePub is the one that I use most often, and the page number fluctuates on my device...even when my settings remain the same."What device do you use? Is it using Adobe Digital Editions to view the ePub?
Carolyn wrote: "JSWolf wrote: "http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/93...This book needs a few fixes. The description should be replaced with (I got it from the author's website)....."
Thank you. That's the best suggestion I've read to date and I will make sure all necessary information is displayed including the title of the book. Actually, the more I think about it, the more you could very well be correct that the list of fixes got lost in the thread.
Shay wrote: "Look, I know it sounds stupid that I did this, but... I went on the library's wait list for an ebook. I was 7 or 8 people back, so that's months of waiting. In the meantime, I bought the book at Ko..."Was the ISBN the same for both copies? I have seen different copies of the same ePub have two different ISBN numbers. Were the publishers different? I've seen that too.
This book needs a few fixes. The description should be replaced with (I got it from the author's website)...
Hannah already has her hands full trying to dodge her mother's attempts to marry her off, while running The Cookie Jar, Lake Eden's most popular bakery. But once Ron LaSalle, the beloved delivery man from the Cozy Cow Dairy, is found murdered behind her bakery with Hannah's famous Chocolate Chip Crunches scattered around him, her life just can't get any worse. Determined not to let her cookies get a bad reputation, she sets out to track down a killer. But if she doesn't watch her back, Hannah's sweet life may get burned to a crisp.
In addition to the original novel, this special edition also contains a novella about Hannah and 9 new recipes.
Jo’s written a novella for the special eBook edition of CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIE MURDER and it picks up right where the first book in the Hannah Swensen series ends. The story starts with a question – Who broke into The Cookie Jar on the coldest night of the year? Hannah sets a trap to find out. When she catches the teenage runaway who’s sleeping under the Christmas tree in the coffee shop, she’s faced with even more puzzles. Where did the teenager come from? Is her name really "Candy"? Who taught her how to make the most delicious confections Hannah and Lisa have ever tasted? Hannah and her friends must do some sleuthing to discover Candy’s real identity, learn why she ran away, and get her back home again in time for Christmas with her family.
Also, the page number is incorrect. It should be 329.
Thanks.