Victorians! discussion
Conversations in the Parlor
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What are some misconceptions that readers have of Victorian fiction?
SarahC wrote: "I never enjoyed the Little House on the Prairie tv series and didn't think it captured the sensibility of Wilder's books "Ditto. Though I never saw it in its original showing, didn't have a TV at the time, but saw a few episodes in reruns and was not at all pleased. But then, I'm sort of a purist, and there are very few adaptations of older books that I like.
Everyman wrote: Though I never saw it in its original showing, didn't have a TV at the time, but saw a few episodes in reruns and was not at all pleased. But then, I'm sort of a purist, and there are very few adaptations of older books that I likeI usually agree with that, but in this particular instance i have to say that I loved that series as a kid, but I didn't know ti was taken from books! I've discovered it only some years a go and now I've finally found them; and I have to say that I'm enjoying the reading as much as I enjoyed the watching at the time!!!
So you are providing your "edited" reading list for K's suggestions? Haha I think we may have all done that. And I remember V.C. Andrews!
Ellen wrote: "When I was a small girl but had learned to read fairly well, my favorite books were the "Little House" series, by Laura Ingalls Wilder. "I loved these books as a child. And now my daughter (age 9) is enjoying them as well. The original TV series has recently been re-released on DVD so I think we may have a mother/daughter bonding session (I used to have a crush on Michael Landon)
Anna wrote: "SarahC wrote: "So you are providing your "edited" reading list for K's suggestions? Haha I think we may have all done that. And I remember V.C. Andrews!"I like to think of it as my "older and wi..."
Ha ha, Anna & SarahC--as if I don't "edit" my childhood list as well! I did not go for Andrews as a child, but read plenty of garbage I'd rather not remember (or admit to)!! I allow my kids to make their own choices (but do admit to being strongly disapproving if occasion arises)--I figure they can make good choices more easily if I have all the "good" stuff around. We only have a tiny library here in town that specializes in modern popular stuff--I'm on my own to provide more nourishing selections.
My boy just started "The Moonstone" last night. The subject/mystery appeals to him. Fun.
Thank you all SO much!
How old is your boy K.?I had not though about it for my son, but now that I think about it, he loves Mystery generally.
Now he's reading I'm Not Scared, but it could be a good suggestion ...
I wasn't quite sure where to put this - we don't really have a "Freewheeling discussion of Victorian literature" thread, do we? I hope here is good enough.It's Poe time for me; I have only dim memories of reading any of his stuff way back when I was around K's son's age. Anyone want to help me with your top Poe stories?
Generally, the obvious plan is "Read the ones you recognize, in order," which would be:
- Fall of the House of Usher (1839)
- Murders in the Rue Morgue (1841)
- Masque of the Red Death (1842)
- Pit and the Pendulum (1842)
- Telltale Heart (1842 and the only one I distinctly remember reading)
- Purloined Letter (1844)
I'd love to hear further recs, though - any unjustly overlooked stories that are your particular favorites, or for that matter any dissenting opinions on famous ones you don't think warrant the reputation.
Alex, you can create a Poe thread under the authors folder. Do you need tips in doing that?
Good idea Poe as well for my son; He's now turned to The Picture of Dorian Grey and Three Stories, but he's finishing it quickly...
Thanks, Jackie!Sarah, I know how to - it just hadn't occurred to me. Good idea; thank you.
Laura, hope your son's loving Wilde. I do. Dorian Gray's a fun read.
I did love it, and he's loving it as well. He read in two days The Importance of Being Earnest, and now wanted to read something more "extended!
yes, he's quite a good reader!!! I sometime flatter myself that's thanks to me, but it's not true; it's all his doing!!
Massimo read it in primary school. That's a book that you can read at different age with differnet angles; great literature. Does any of you know MOERS WALTER?Some of his books for "children" should be read by our political leaders! Rumo: And His Miraculous Adventures for one...
Anna wrote: "I just picked up The Neverending Story last night and started reading it again. It is definitely a book for older children (and adults) who love books. I think all literary children wi..."
It's such a lovely book! I loved it when I was teen and also when I re-read it years later. Another book that I loved when child and truly enjoyed it as adult is The Princess Bride I thought it was such a fun read!
It's such a lovely book! I loved it when I was teen and also when I re-read it years later. Another book that I loved when child and truly enjoyed it as adult is The Princess Bride I thought it was such a fun read!
Antìa wrote: Another book that I loved when child and truly enjoyed it as adult is The Princess Bride I thought it was such a fun read!you're right; I've read The Princess Bride only a year ago for the first time and I fine it an outstanding book!
My boy loved "Princess Bride" (me too!). I'll have to get him a copy of "Neverending Story." I really disliked that movie, so I never thought of looking for the book.
Anna wrote: "It made me wonder if the penguin classics with the lovely portraits on the covers are really turning people off of Victorian fiction and maybe these guys have the right idea after all?"haha! that cover looks like the sort of book that i would NOT read. i'll take the old paintings any day.
Anna wrote: "On the original thread topic. I was reading a M.E. Braddon novel on the train the other day- I forget which one- and the guy standing next to me made a comment to this effect. All the books he'd ev..."Anna, Sounds like this chatty guy had some pre-conceived barriers to art AND fiction!
My son sometimes judges books from their covers; but he's 13!!!
I don't know, I haven't entered Kindle territory either. It is interesting that readers have that kind of interpretation. It brings up many questions. Would this person be that judgmental of art in itself. Or does he just feel that publishers have associated certain types of art with books he personally finds boring. It is funny though -- someone who reads a lot knows that publishers pull all kinds of tricks to get certain "markets" to buy a book. My young son looks at the titles of my fiction reading lying around the house, and asks what certain titles even mean. Most of the time even that question is hard to answer because the publishers market with the title also. So I now think it is funny when grownups won't try a book for a certain way it looks. And who can actually judge a book by its title?
Anna wrote: "SarahC wrote: "Anna wrote: "On the original thread topic. I was reading a M.E. Braddon novel on the train the other day- I forget which one- and the guy standing next to me made a comment to this e..."Kindles do have covers and when you buy them from Amazon, for example, you do see the cover and the title first.
Reviving this thread because it seems like the most appropriate place for this question. Jx has somewhat broadly asked for Victorian recommendations; she seems new to this era. Her question reminded me of a conversation I got into the other day about how many Victorian novels are controversial; there are lots of haters and lovers for each of them. (We ended up deciding that's actually true of most books, though.)
The best I could think of for Victorian novels that are pretty universally loved are Conan Doyle and maybe Robert Louis Stevenson. (Poe?) Anyone have any other ideas?
And in the absence of any other information from a prospective reader, would those be the safest recommendations?
Anna wrote: "I actually dislike Stevenson"Dang it all.
Y'know, I always want to recommend WH too. With a lot of books, even if I disagree, I can understand the reason for disliking them; but I'm mystified about why WH isn't universally loved. It strikes me as totally fun and accessible, not to mention brilliant.
Anna wrote: "there are those who would call it an unrealistic soap opera without a single likable character"Ha...I completely agree with the above statement. I just fail to see why that detracts from the enjoyment.
What about recommending authors or titles who are not the "standards" of the Victorian list? Recommending to new readers, that is. Maybe that would get people aside the stories that have been filmed so much and also not make the new reader feel so "but everyone says this is good, why don't I like it?" Maybe they would approach the era's writing with more of a clean slate (not influenced by the movie version-which might not have been true to the author) and without as much of a Lit 101 approach.
So I have no idea what the best picks for a list like that would be. But I remember, for example, trying to read Middlemarch years ago and a bookseller said that, while that was Eliot's BIG novel, many people find Mill on the Floss more accessible, so that made me feel better about my struggle.
What are your thoughts?
I think that's a really interesting idea. I know a lot of people approach the classics with a deep breath: "Okay, I know this will be a struggle but at least I can say I've read it," in part because of the weight of history and their dozens of friends who read [whatever book] in ninth grade and hated it. A lesser-known book might sidestep that problem.I'm not versed enough in the Victorians to contribute to a list - I'm still just making sure I've read the big dogs - but Anna put up a list of less appreciated female Victorian authors a while back that looked great (and all of which are waiting patiently for me).
Alex wrote: "The best I could think of for Victorian novels that are pretty universally loved are Conan Doyle and maybe Robert Louis Stevenson. (Poe?) Anyone have any other ideas?And in the absence of any other information from a prospective reader, would those be the safest recommendations? "
But neither of those, I think, are typical of Victorian fiction. They both write fairly straightforward adventure or detective stories. Neither has the complexity or depth or social commentary of Dickens or Thackeray or Gaskell or Eliot or Bronte or even Trollope or Hardy, for a few examples. For me, that is one of the significant aspects of Victorian fiction -- that it sought not just to tell a story, but to talk about life and society. I don't, frankly, see either Stevenson or Doyle doing this.
Let her go ahead and plunge in with a few of the more basic Victorian novels -- not Bleak House or Middlemarch at first, but Little Dorrit, or Great Expectations, or Adam Bede, or Silas Marner, or Far from the Madding Crowd, any other of dozens you could name, warning her that each of these has both its passionate adherents and equally passionate detractors, and she just has to learn for herself which she likes and which she doesn't.
Alex wrote: "Y'know, I always want to recommend WH too. With a lot of books, even if I disagree, I can understand the reason for disliking them; but I'm mystified about why WH isn't universally loved. It strikes me as totally fun and accessible, not to mention brilliant. "If you want to come over for afternoon tea sometime, we can spend a few hours discussing this book. It would be fun, but would take too much time to get into here.
You also might try mining the 5 best Victorian books thread for ideas.
Anna wrote: "@Alex- do know by chance if she's reading in English or in translation? That could make a huge difference."You mean Jinx? I have no idea, but that's a really good question.
And perhaps you could try some of the lesser known? David Balfour? St. Ives? The Wrecker? The Master of Ballantrae? They aren't as "Treasure-Islandy," it that's what you object to. Hmm. New readers. What fun! My ideas:
-The Moonstone or Woman in White
-Wives & Daughters
-A Christmas Carol
-Rachel Ray or The Warden
-Mr. Midshipman Easy (Marryat is SO forgotten)
-Kim
Alex, Jx may not realize you are responding to her question in a different thread from the one she asked in? Or am I wrong? because I just saw her question in the other thread. If so, do you want to message her to take a look into this thread? I may not understand the picture since I have not been online much this week?I like K's suggestions for different RL Stevenson books -- I wondered that myself.
I guess the whole question of which are good starter books for Victorian fiction is debatable. And then it depends on the reader. If a person is well-read in books of other eras, other genres -- other substantial literature -- a book like Little Dorrit would be absolutely no problem. I am back more with Alex's original question of what introduces a reader to Victorian era themes, etc. without being too intense of a story in one direction or another.
I can't remember if Jekyll & Hyde is in epistolary form, and my wife stole my Kindle so I can't check. Argh. I love epistolaries, personally. I think they're a really interesting way into storytelling; they allow for all kinds of experiments with narrator unreliability.Everyman, good point that Doyle & the best-known Stevenson may be accessible but they're also not perfect examples of Victorian themes. I hadn't thought about that.
Sarah, you're right, Jx has no idea she's spawned a big discussion somewhere else. I'll drop a note in whatever thread she was asking in.
Anna wrote: "@ Alex- If you were going to read The Canterbury Tales would you read them in Middle English or a contemporary version? I only ask because I've read the original, or at least a cleaned up version o..."When we read Canterbury Tales in high school, it was an interlinear version - the original every other line with a modern verse translation.
When I had it in college, it was in Middle English.
That sounds like the way to go, Susanna: you can often work your way through the Middle English, but not always. (I can't remember if I ever answered that question: I read them in Middle English, but I was much better at that in college. Can't do it now. Tried recently.)
Yeah, I liked that interlinear version, and still have it. I would read the Chaucer, and when I got to a "say what?!?!" bit, would look down below to the translation.I doubt I could do the ME version now, either; though we have that, too. Our teacher in college loved Chaucer, which helped, as she wanted us to love Chaucer, too.
I had a spectacular teacher for a course that focused exclusively on the Canterbury Tales. She was one of the best professors I've ever had.In fact, I just found and emailed her to thank her.
Anna wrote: "A Christams Caraol is an excellent introduction to Dickens. I always forget about it somehow. I love Marryat, and she's very readable. I solemnly vow to try to read Stevenson again this summer. Is ..."Just flipped quickly through my copy or Jekyll/Hyde. I don't see any evidence of it being in letter form.
Anna, are we discussing the same Marryat? Mine's a HE. ;) Frederick. (I see that there was a Florence, the daughter of Frederick, whose works I have not read. You?)
Anna's previous mention of Marryat in the Top 5 Vic Novels thread was Florence Marryat. If you have time, Anna, I would love for you to give us a little more info on this author and Frederick too, if either you members have it?
Hmm. I'm now intrigued to discover Florence Marryat. What was the name of the book Anna put in her top 5?We love Frederick at our house, he holds a prominent position on our shelves where we keep our "blood & morality tales, or rather, adventure books for boys." Neither of those terms are mine...Anyway, he's rather irreverent, sometimes (okay, often) dreadfully politically incorrect, and perhaps even outdated. But he's hilarious and in most of his books his boy hero has to learn to be a man the hard way: mistakes and such. But he does learn to be a man. He wrote a few great books for children (Children of the New Forest & Masterman Ready) but mainly I think his audience was probably men (young & old). Some of his earlier stories/novels can be a little crass, he got better at making his point without so much crudity as he matured as a writer.
I am surprised that I reviewed so many of them. Nothing special, but you can read them here (I think, if the link works;)
http://www.goodreads.com/review/list/...
Mr. Midshipman Easy is probably the easiest book to still find in trade paperback, all of the others I own I've had to buy either as used, very old collectors copies (I'm cool with that) or as new reprints (often FULL of mistakes!!)
Good luck. I'd love to hear if anyone else enjoys him.
K, sorry if you've already said this and I missed it: if I was going to read one book by Frederick, which one should it be?
Alex, Oh, that's SUCH a hard question! I did mention Mr. Midshipman Easy earlier mainly because it is way easier to get than most of the rest. But it is fantastic. The Husband and I were just recalling how much we loved the mentor figure, O'Brien. This is all I wrote in my review: "Watched/listened to my husband chuckle all the way through this one. Also noticed he put it down one night in the very last chapter because he said it was basically a point by point analysis of why Socialism doesn't work, and he was too tired to take it in that night. He wanted to tackle it in the morning." Does that make you want to read it or not?
However, probably my personal favorite is "Jacob Faithful," (by the by, the whole time through that book I was reminded of Dickens--and then found out that Dickens was a huge fan of Marryat. Makes sense. Their sense of humor is quite like.) And then my husband thinks his favorite is "Percival Keene."
Not much help, am I?
Yes, Susanna, the 12 did like Captains! Great book! Thanks!
Okay, Mr. Midshipman Easy goes on my list: I'll break the tie by going with the one Wikipedia tells me is his best-known. He's early, huh? That was 1836, before the big Victorian explosion.Thanks!
Victorians!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Blood of the Vampire (other topics)Puck of Pook's Hill (other topics)
Captains Courageous (other topics)
The Light Princess (other topics)
The Princess Bride (other topics)
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Excellent recommendation. ..."
I never enjoyed the Little House on the Prairie tv series and didn't think it captured the sensibility of Wilder's books -- and I was child at the time thinking that. I just think the series came at the height of the 1970s drama trend and it just played up every possible drama point. Maybe it did help kids read the series more and become acquainted with good books and a little social history.