Did anyone else just not "get" this book? Showing 1,151-1,174 of 1,174

[Sarah]

Seth wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Seth wrote: "It's not a question of my superiority, or not. The "Catcher" has survived this long because it is significant, and that's why we still talk about it. A world of pure orgi..."


No problem! It's just important to recognize why a book is important even if it's not really a personal preference. I'm not the hugest fan of Catcher but I do understand why it's important!

[Seth]

I'm really sensitive to this because I work at a pizza joint with a couple of guys who see themselves as aesthetes and say the stupidest things about the greatest bands willy-nilly, not to mention movies (my subject). Thankfully, they are both too good for TV, and haven't ruined that for me!

I'd be curious to know why you didn't like "Catcher" but I also realize it's definitely a book for teenage boys not girls, unless they are tomboys, and even then who knows. It really is a stream of consciousness story, and that's not everyone's bag. Almost nothing happens, except the anxiety builds the closer it gets to seeing his parents, and telling them the bad news that he has been expelled from another prep school. But this is subtle, and Holden never sees them, just his kid sister Phoebe who is the angel of the tale, and one of the only memorable characters aside from Holden and his reeling mind. I wrote a really good blog about it.

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...

[Sarah]

Seth wrote: "I'm really sensitive to this because I work at a pizza joint with a couple of guys who see themselves as aesthetes and say the stupidest things about the greatest bands willy-nilly, not to mention ..."

Well, I guess there are a few reasons. First of all, I read Catcher nearly two years ago and therefore maybe need a refresher on it since I have grown a lot intellectually in those two years. Secondly, I feel that maybe Catcher is outside the range of literature that I usually gravitate towards and that's really a factor working against it in the long run. I simply do not know enough about the time period it came from (in a book sense, specifically the movement it came from) to really appreciate it. If you look at my list of books you will notice that the trend for me is to read works that are much, much older (I can't emphasize "much" enough!) and it's becoming such a frequent thing that maybe I could consider it an area of specialization at this point. But that does impact the way I see other novels.

I also think that knowing more about Salinger would help. I've heard that even people who don't like Catcher tend to like some of his other works, so I am keeping that in the back of my mind.

[Seth]

Yeah, I guess you are reading books from the 19th century, or earlier, a pre stream of consciousness world. I started off with Steinbeck, Hemingway, Fitzgerald, and just sort of inched my way through the 20th century. I also focused largely on U.S. Literature, even though that was considered dorky when I went to college.

You can forget Salinger for now. Maybe try Virginia Woolf's "The Waves," or "The Sound and the Fury," by Faulkner, both classic 20th century works that really evolved literature and yet seem completely linked to the past in a way that Salinger doesn't.

[Sarah]

Seth wrote: "Yeah, I guess you are reading books from the 19th century, or earlier, a pre stream of consciousness world. I started off with Steinbeck, Hemingway, Fitzgerald, and just sort of inched my way throu..."

Gotcha, thanks for the recommendations. They have been duly noted! I appreciate it. My focus has largely been on British lit for quite some time now with a bit of everything (if we're talking country origin) sprinkled in between. I've read a good deal of Steinbeck and I've actually read all of Fitzgerald's works ( I have a love-hate relationship with his work, let's just put it that way) and I admit that I ought to read more Hemingway sometime.

Seems like my personal literary journey is taking me backwards rather than forward, seeing as my study has been largely medieval for a couple of months now! Ha ha.

[Seth]

Klaudia wrote: "I don't understand what there's to "get." It's a work of fiction. Holden is slowly going insane, and he's the stereotypical rich child who is sent to boarding school and whose parents are distant. ..."

Great take, Claudia! Holden was a rich kid and the world was just slipping through his fingers. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if a character ever existed like this before, but I'm sure there were some ne'er do well English dandies roaming the pages of Trollope, but that was different than someone in post war America, with no royal heritage.

[Seth]

Sarah wrote: "Seth wrote: "Yeah, I guess you are reading books from the 19th century, or earlier, a pre stream of consciousness world. I started off with Steinbeck, Hemingway, Fitzgerald, and just sort of inched..."

Keep going backwards, and stay true to your passion. That's what Holden would tell you to do.

[Karen]

Seth wrote;
"You can forget Salinger for now. Maybe try Virginia Woolf's "The Waves," or "The Sound and the Fury," by Faulkner, both classic 20th century works that really evolved literature and yet seem completely linked to the past in a way that Salinger doesn't"

These two books you recommend are much more difficult stream of conciousness novels than TCITR is, in my opinion. Especially if one is used to reading pre- modernist literature.

[Seth]

Karen wrote: "Seth wrote;
"You can forget Salinger for now. Maybe try Virginia Woolf's "The Waves," or "The Sound and the Fury," by Faulkner, both classic 20th century works that really evolved literature and ye..."
I suppose Faulkner and Woolf are more difficult stylistically, but I think part of the problem with " Catcher" is that people read it thinking it 's going to be an easy YA novel, the one to top all others, and then it comes off as weird, so that readers "don't get it."

[Karen]

Seth wrote;
"I suppose Faulkner and Woolf are more difficult stylistically, but I think part of the problem with " Catcher" is that people read it thinking it 's going to be an easy YA novel, the one to top all others, and then it comes off as weird, so that readers "don't get it."

I agree, and will never understand why TCITR was marketed as a YA novel, just because the protagonist is 16 years old

[Justin]

George wrote: "Melissa wrote: "Referencing Paul's comment about a classic standing the test of time, I find myself wondering what makes a book a classic? And why? I picked up "Moby Dick" recently expecting a roll..."

I think you're percentages are off. I thought it was closer to 40% story and 60% sidebars.

[Thomas]

About 5 years ago I was giving a ride to a high school friend of my daughter. He was having problems with his parents who were divorced and felt alone in his family. We started talking about TCITR and he told me that it was one of the few books that he actually felt attached to, that was telling a story that he felt meant something to him. It was a book that he loved and read several times. So the question becomes, if a book is telling a story for certain people can other people put themselves in their place and appreciate it too?

[Anisha]

Can someone give a justification for the title of the book

[Thomas]

It's fairly simple. If you read the book there is no question but it is explained in wikipedia if you didn't read the book.

[Hannah]

I had to read the book for a summer English project and found the narrative style stuffy and pretentious. The idea that children are innocent and need to be protected was particularly grating -- it only makes sense if you buy into the children-as-becoming-people frame of thought.
I found Holden unsympathetic, which is different from unlikable (though I thought he was that, too). His actions were incomprehensible to me. When I read Sweeney Todd, I understood Todd and was able to emphasize with him, even if I didn't agree with his actions. I didn't like Todd, but I enjoyed the story; it was exciting, funny and full of complex characters. I cannot say the same of Holden. He is uninteresting, not amusing and not sympathetic. He is generic, to the point that I couldn't bring myself to care if he was happy or safe. He wasn't real to me, and that's an important quality to making a book coming alive.

[Lorraine]

Hannah wrote: "I had to read the book for a summer English project and found the narrative style stuffy and pretentious. The idea that children are innocent and need to be protected was particularly grating -- it..."

You have expressed what has been nagging me about why I didn't like or care about Holden. He is generic, so he wasn't real to me either. Thank you.

[Sherrie]

Wow, that's interesting. I loved that book. Holden is typical in some ways that most teens are typical: rebellious, not being focused on school, trying out adult roles.
I found him fascinating. You do realize this was written in the 40's? So whatever seems normal today was not in that time period.
But to each his own, I guess.
Peace,
Sherrie
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Her husband made a video for her novel. He wrote the song too. You can go to her Home page to watch it:
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[Sherrie]

Jess wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "I read it to see what all the fuss was about and I still have no idea. All I got out of it was a teenager whining about his life and college and girls and how everything sucks. I ..."
He's a giant, flaming hypocrite? YES! Just like we all are at that age. But Salinger was ahead of his time as he wrote this at a time when everyone pretended kids were either prefect or belonged in Jail. My dad was a teen during that time & poor kids were treated like crap. I really like that Holden's family was rich, but he rejected all their snobbery. He really cared about people, but as is typical of boys, even today, he didn't want to show that side of himself. He only showed it with his little sister that he loved very much & his brother who had died.
I think this book IS a classic as do others as it is taught in school. I taught it in 11th grade, but did not understand a thing when I read it as a 9th grader. I was just too young & unfocused at that time. (Also, I didn't really read it; my mind kept drifting to my own problems.)
Thomas, I agree that kids with problems would get a lot out of this book. The popular one today is "The Perks of Being A Wallflower."

[Sherrie]

Very well said, Jess! Thank you for taking the time to explain a very complex character. ;-) <3
I can tell you, for sure, none of the people I knew as a teen were that complex. If Holden were real, he would have grown up to be an artist of some sort. All those feelings would have to go somewhere and hopefully, make this world a better place.
It has been said that Holden was a young Salinger. This has to be true to some extent, in order for Salinger to portray him so well. And most of us know what happened to good old JD, right?
I am enjoying this discussion immensely. I wish I had been able to generate a conversation like this among my Juniors when I taught this book many years ago.
I did give extra credit to those who went to see "Girl Interrupted," which I thought was a good comparison of a female in a different, but similar, time period. Susanna Kaysen's story was a memoir and it made me happy that my family wasn't wealthy. At that time, girls were not allowed to be sexual, outspoken or have a career other than a housewife.
Anyway, I guess I'm getting way off-topic here.
Thanks for a good discussion, folks!

[Madeline]

Charlotte wrote: "I read it to see what all the fuss was about and I still have no idea. All I got out of it was a teenager whining about his life and college and girls and how everything sucks. I don't understand w..."

in my opinion, because it was edgy and forward thinking for it's time, what was needed for certain people in a certain time, like many 'classics'. it was controversial because it was about a teenager, using language teenagers then used.

[Madeline]

Angelo wrote: "I just finished reading it a couple days ago. Personally, I think it's a great book. However, it's easy to see why people don't understand why it's such a classic.
It's from a teenagers point of vi..."

i was a lonely teenager. i was isolated and cynical. books were my friends. I read this as a teenager. i still thought it blew and that Holden made it nearly unreadable.

it's supposed to be about innocence and growing up--holden being isolated and thinking everyone is 'phony' and craving a kind of straight forward innocence in a complex adult world is a bit of childishness i think he's meant to get over. that he's meant to realize everyone is as confused and lost as he is, and that's why they're 'phony'. that innocence is something that goes up and down and all around through out your life, like the carousel. Holden is insufferable because he's whiny and misogynistic and immature, and he doesn't seem to really get past any of that throughout the course of the novel.

Holden was never really the reason to read this novel. People were blown away by a teenaged protagonist talking like an actual teenager, and the themes of the book are solid. the edge is gone, it hasn't aged well. that's why people don't like it, not because people can't relate to 'isolated' Holden.

[Cosmic]

Madeline wrote: "it's supposed to be about innocence and growing up--holden being isolated and thinking everyone is 'phony' and craving a kind of straight forward innocence in a ..."


This isn't what Salinger said. I think that those that tell us what a book is supposed to be are afraid that we will come up with some other interpretation and find out a different interpretation. Remain curious. Don't let school or "education" rob you of the ability to think. If their interpretation just doesn't fit then perhaps "they" are wrong!

It definitely didn't convince me!

[Madeline]

Cosmic wrote: "Madeline wrote: "it's supposed to be about innocence and growing up--holden being isolated and thinking everyone is 'phony' and craving a kind of straight forward innocence in a ..."


This isn't w..."


I don't believe in authorial intent or education authorities as the be all end all of what a book 'means', I was presenting my personal reading. For future reference, I would take your position/critique more seriously if you offered an alternate reading of your own.

[Cosmic]

Madeline wrote: "it's supposed to be about innocence and growing up..."..."


I must have not understood where you got this idea from. Please explain.


You wrote:
"For future reference, I would take your position/critique more seriously if you offered an alternate reading of your own. "

Since the alternative reading is contained in Cliff Notes I don't have to give that to you. In my opinion, you already understand that position. (In fact in reading what you wrote i think you did a very good job trying to make that fit the meaning of the book!

"that he's meant to realize everyone is as confused and lost as he is, and that's why they're 'phony'. that innocence is something that goes up and down and all around through out your life, like the carousel."

But why we're they playing Smoke Gets In Your Eyes on a carousel?

This was one of the first questions that i asked myself on my second reading of the book. So i looked up some information around that song.

At the end of WW2 Glenn Miller was flown to Abbey Road Studios to do some recordings of songs that they were going to play back to the Germans after the war. This was one of those songs. Glenn Miller died afterwards crossing the ocean. I believe there are other references to Glenn Miller in the book besides this song.

Another reference that you may not have noticed in the section of the carousel was to the hat that Holden was wearing. Clearly you can tell that the hat has a symbolic meaning. He turns out one way or the other way, depending. He even tells us early in the book that the hat is a "people shooting hat." I believe the literary reference for this "hat" is the book Bambi. I have linked this, because I am not talking about the movie that Disney made to totally obscure the meaning of this book to Hunter story. This book was banned by Hitler. Written by a Zionist Jew after WW1. And is considered a political allegory. Disney said that because of the adult content they had to change the story. I highly recommend you read it.

I found that Cliff Notes didn't help me understand The Catcher and so i started reading the different books mentioned in the Catcher for answers. If you are interested in this approach I would suggest The Thirty-Nine Steps

Although not mentioned as a book, but as the film, he did take symbols from this book and make them part of The Catcher. Especially where Holden talks about "getting a good good-bye."

I feel that you may have thought I was trying to attack you. That was not my intent at all. My interest is in discussing the book not attacking people.

Thanks for writing me back!