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What does Auri know?
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Alright, I'm going to attempt to explain why I think Auri could be Lyra. Bear with me. Auri seems to know magic. There are runes warding the entrance to the Underthing. When Kvothe tells her he's looking for a place to put his blood because someone's trying to find him, Auri immediately understands what he needs and why. She has a magical object that gives off a blue light. Kvothe has never gotten a close look at it but it is much smaller than a sympathy lamp. If Auri is not a former student, how does she know/have these things?
She is strangely elusive. Elodin says he's been trying to talk to her for years. However, he and Kvothe are the only ones at the University who seem aware of her presence. One night, Auri tells Kvothe she went out on top of things and saw Elodin. When Kvothe asks if Elodin saw her, she smiles and says, “Nobody sees me.”
When Kvothe offers to bring her shoes, she tells him she doesn't go out on tops of things in the winter. If she doesn't leave the Underthing all winter, how does she feed herself? Does she procure food magically or does she not really need to eat?
After the fire in the Fishery, Kvothe worries about Auri and brings Mola to see her.
“There was a big fire. A lot of it went down the grates. Did you see it?”
“Holy God, yes,” she said, her eyes wide. “It was all over, and all the shrews and raccoons were running everyway, trying to get out.”
“Did any of it get on you?” “Did you get burned?”
“Oh no. It couldn't catch me.”
“Were you close to the fire?” “Did you breathe any of the smoke?”
“Why would I breathe smoke?” she replies as if she had a choice.
So it's raining fire in the Underthing but the fire can't catch Auri and she doesn't inhale any smoke? She lives underground and Kvothe has no idea how she feeds herself. She lives there for years and no one notices her but Kvothe and the Master Namer. This does not sound like a normal human. Of course, if she is Lyra she would know the name of fire and could control it. If she's dead or... not exactly alive anymore she wouldn't need food and she wouldn't need to leave the Underthing. She could easily live there unnoticed.
In addition, Auri has very proper table manners and she won't wear secondhand clothes. She always keeps herself clean, despite living underground. To me, this suggests she is not a commoner.
It seems like Auri has a very sad past. She comes to Kvothe's room after the plum bob and comforts him.
“I know,” she said. “You have a stone in her heart, and some days it's so heavy there is nothing to be done. But you don't have to be alone for it. You should have come to me. I understand.”
Her sad past appears to be linked with the Amyr. The only time Kvothe makes Auri cry, he asks her about the Amry.
“You look like an Amyr,” she said. “Kvothe is one of the Ciridae.”
“Auri, how do you know about the Ciridae?” Auri runs away and Kvothe follows. “I don't like telling,” she said softly, her voice thick with tears.... The light in her hand showed smudges where she'd been rubbing away her tears. It was the first time I'd ever seen Auri dirty.”
Kvothe apologizes and Auri tells him “You are my Ciridae, and thus above reproach.” She touches his chest and says, “Ivare enim euge.” Kvothe translates this later on when he finds the same words written in Gibea's book. He says it's an archaic usage of Tema that means for greater good. Why would Auri speak an archaic version of Tema? Is she that old or just closely linked with the Amyr?
Lastly, Auri tells Elodin “If your name is getting too heavy, you should have Kvothe give you a new one.”
Help me out, guys. Can anyone kill this theory?
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As for Auri being Lyra, I don't buy it. Auri lives in the underthing for an undetermined amount of time, Kvothe notes that she knows her way around easily, if she saw smoke/fire etc, she could easily find somewhere safe and she has also been noted to be spritely, quick and can get away in a pinch. The underhting is HUGE, I find it easy to believe she escaped. The ciridae thing is the question, how does she know it? She didn't speak fluent Tema or anything, she used the 'one' phrase that they were related to which is also noted down in a book and who knows how many other pieces of literature.
As for the Key, Coin and Candle. Has anyone in the 4C NOT heard of Taborlin? Auri is like a child in a lot of ways, why wouldn't she want to bring a bit of that magic story into her life with her new friend? As for 'How does Auri have those things'? She is crawling around underneath a huge set of buildings that have been housing the greatest minds wielding magic for a long time. I'm sure a few glowing coins slipped into the cracks over the years, it could be one of those things Kilvin has - technology lost to them.
Puppet and Auri seem similar to me and we know he is cracked. He likes puppets and has learnt to see the true way of things in a quirky way. Auri likes being neat and tidy and having proper manners and acting like a noble. That idea doesn't convince me but I could probably believe it if it went down like that.
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What makes you choose Lyra specifically?
Manda: Nice research. A lot of the reasons you posted are the same reasons I feel like she's not a former student. I think the answer that fits your theory a little closer is the Auri=Princess Ariel theory, which meshes with some of the points you raised.
Chris wrote: "If she's cracked or other it's interesting, it makes me want to know who she was, who she is, how she cracked, what happened, etc."Chris, I will say this for your position. It is certainly the most mundane theory. And that alone is enough to eliminate it from consideration, in my opinion.
Why Lyra? For one, Auri’s connection to the Ciridae is really strange. Why does she have such an emotional reaction? The Amyr seem linked to the Chandrian, and thus to the story of Lanre and Lyra. It’s possible the Amyr were created in response to Haliax’s betrayal. I know, I know… theories upon theories. But who else would burst into tears upon mention of the Ciridae?The other big thing is Auri’s deep well of sadness. Lyra does have a name that would weigh heavily on her. I know that this isn’t an airtight theory by any stretch but it’s one I can’t seem to shake.
I’m glad you brought up the moon, Amber. There was a second part to my post that I ended up deleting because it was getting too muddled and unwieldy. The moon is mentioned an unreasonable number of times in the scenes with Auri! Once I started paying attention, it seemed rather ridiculous. And, of course, if Auri is the moon it would be pretty funny that Kvothe gives her a name that means sunny.
I'd like to here more of your Moon angle, MAnda.
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While it's got nothing to do with this thread, I wanna toss out that Roderic is kind of the most boring solution to the whole Kvothe Kingkiller question. It's also the right one. And ultimately the most satisfying. So I guess I'm saying that might be an odd reason to dismiss a possibility.
And, despite that, I agree. Kvothe calls "cracked student" on everything he doesn't understand. Paternalistic little d-bag.
The most significant refutation of Manda's Lyra theory is that she's supposed to be dead. I've seen a few creative ways around that, and I like the bathos of her name making her sad. Of her hiding out as a frail girl in the remnants of an old city. There's just not enough connective tissue at the moment.
On the other hand, I think you struck gold in there. The stone in your heart is a secret that grows heavier unspoken. Auri’s suggestion about Elodin’s name, if it gets too heavy and all, doesn’t just recall the bit from Teccam. It’s self referential. Her name is her secret. It had grown too heavy until Kvothe relieved some of the burden.
Pat's been fairly adamant about Auri not being important to the plot, but that might be the beginning of figuring out what she's actually for besides giving Kvothe a few human touches.
thistlepong wrote: "While it's got nothing to do with this thread, I wanna toss out that Roderic is kind of the most boring solution to the whole Kvothe Kingkiller question. It's also the right one. And ultimately the most satisfying. So I guess I'm saying that might be an odd reason to dismiss a possibility."I find it odd that you assume I am making a blanket generalization.
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Both are constantly surrounded by this motif.
Which interstingly (IMO) is something that also surrounds Haliax.
And even Kvothe now that I'm thinking about it. But anyway, both Denna and Auri are mentioned with the moon more often than anything else I can remember.
I'm pretty sure that almost for certain, the Amyr were created in reaction to Haliax/Lanre's "betrayal". Remember the story of Myr Tarinial in NOTW. Selitos makes the Amyr in response to Aleph's Angels because he refuses to forget the burning of his city and not take retribution upon The Chandrian. (If that is in fact true, it's another folk story...so I'm sure at least bits and pieces are correct)
Anyway, the only real refute is what Thistlepong had to say, she is supposedly dead, and I have to say, her being dead seems pretty important to the story. It's basically the driving force behind Lanre/Haliax' existance, no?
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Anyone know how the hierarchy of the Amyr was actually set up?
I think it interesting Auri dubs Kvothe "MY Ciridae" but it could also just be part of Auri's personality.
What I'm curious about, on the subject of the Amyr, is why Nina is more terrified of the depiction of the Amyr in her dream/drawing than the depiction of Cinder and Haliax?
Bill wrote: "What I'm curious about, on the subject of the Amyr, is why Nina is more terrified of the depiction of the Amyr in her dream/drawing than the depiction of Cinder and Haliax?"That is interesting... I haven’t considered it before- I've just started my fourth reread and will pay particular attention to that scene.
@Amber- The founding of the Amyr is the second part of Skarpi's story about Lanre, Lyra, and Selitos. But is it true? Also, Haliax believes Lyra to be dead or sealed away from him somehow. But we are missing a part of Skarpi's story because Kvothe comes in late. Perhaps Selitos succeeded where Lanre failed and Lyra was resurrected. Maybe Lyra was devastated by what Lanre had become and helped Selitos found the Amyr. @Servius The moon is mentioned a million times in the Auri scenes. I will try to do as Amber suggested and count the number of mentions in my next reread but it is a lot. It also says that Auri likes to come out on nights when the moon is no more than a sliver or obscured by clouds.
@Thistlepong In one of your earlier posts you were discussing how long Elodin has been trying to talk to Auri. He says years but does not specify how many and you were skeptical that “the most impressive Namer of a generation spent a decade failing at anything.”
But Kvothe lures Auri out with music. Can't you imagine him playing while she creeps closer and closer? It makes sense to me that he is the one to entice her out of hiding.
Auri even chides Elodin when he doesn't bring a gift for Kvothe.
“Kvothe has brought music,” she said sternly, “which is for everyone.”
Manda wrote: "And, of course, if Auri is the moon it would be pretty funny that Kvothe gives her a name that means sunny. "Remember now, Kvothe only thinks it means sunny. I highly suspect this is one of the many cases where he gets the true name right by accident.
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Both enticed by music to leave a place the feel is safe.
Plus Auri doesn't give out her name freely.
I think what busted that for me is there is a scene when the moon is full and Auri is out, I think it's actually when they share the meal with Elodin. Which in my world, pretty much nixed the idea she could be Ludis.
Anywho - I agree, its hard to say what peices of any story are correct. I know a lot of people feel Skarpi's are the most accurate, but I can't say I'm in that camp, especially with Denna's conflicting song.
Makes things really frustrating actually.
@Bill - Maybe Nina felt more fearful of the Ciridae because she felt she was protected from Haliax and Cinder due to the talisman Kvothe gave her. Which she believed to be real.
Another possiblity is that the Amyr were disband for being over zealous and that incident is more historically fresh than Haliax and Cinder, who have been considered myth for possibly thousands of years during current times.
Thats all I can think of for now. Plus, the Ciridae are a bit freaky lookin' from what I imagine.
I hope someone has read this in the book too so I know I am not dreaming. Did Auri give Kvothe a wood ring? I know Maer' s wife gave him a wooden ring to show she despised him. I feel this is the Kvothe/ lockless/ connection. I feel his mother was the sister Meluan lost to a Rue. Also, what was in the letter that Meluan gave Kvothe?
Did I miss it of was it never told?
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The contents of Meluan's letter were never explicitly revealed.
What was different with the wood ring Meluna gave Kvothe and the one Auri gave him? Any theory's on where Auri got her ring? What was the significance of the ring gaven to K from Meluna?
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I can't say what sort of difference there are in the appearance of the two rings but I think Auri mentions finding hers in the Underthing. Her is a freely given gift, I can't remember what she says goes with it now. Maybe it was a secret? (as in the ring holds secrets, not that no one knows...that was confusing)
DISCLAIMER: may want to self verify that though, this all just out of my memory and likely mixed around with other bullshit. I can only say the Meluan bit for sure.
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Given a lot of people like to imagine she is a princess.
That would just tickle me to death.
Chris wrote: ""I also suspect she uses sympathy to negate the binding runes keeping the grate closed in the abandoned courtyard when she needs in/out." I doubt this, you can't use Sympathy to counteract Sygaldry..."I thought this was the case too, but in WMF when Kvothe breaks into Ambrose's room... "I finally managed to puzzle out the sequence of wards as I heard several sets of footsteps in the hall. I broke my mind into three pieces and focused my Alar as I pushed against the window. My hands and feet grew cold as I pulled heat from my body to counteract the ward, trying not to panic as I heard a loud thump as something heavy struck the door.
The window swung open..." which implies that the ward/sygaldry can be overpowered by sympathy I think
This is totally crackpot but a part of me has always wondered if she could be Lyra. I know Lyra is supposed to be dead. Lanre tried to bring her back and failed. But what if his efforts trapped her somehow? Could Auri be a spirit who has become more and more corporeal after Kvothe named her?