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What does Auri know?
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LMAO. that would be awesome.
Rachel wrote: "But if she was Ordal, how could they see her?"Wasn't there something about powerful people being able to see them? And i imagine they can reveal themselves when they want to.
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I don't think so. She once dubbed Kvothe her personal Ciri..."
But as you said, if she saw an Amyr all angel-like with huge wings destroying someone, even if it was for the greater good, that could make her go crazy.
there is something about that stealing princess line that just occurred to me. all the things he points out from the princess to the university are listed in order. it would seem that he has already stolen the princess(es), although we don't realize it yet.
Chris wrote: "Rachel wrote: "Chris wrote: "She's someone who's gone cracked, I think she has had a similar experience with the Amyr as Kvothe did with the seven. ..."I don't think so. She once dubbed Kvothe he..."
The Amyr aren't the ones with wings. Reread the Skarpi story.
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That story with the girl sex slaves turned into him rescuing maidens from a bunch of Ogres or something weird like that...Taking this princess stealing in the literal sense is a complete mistake IMO.
and @ Chris thats the Ruach - Not the Amyr, also the Ruach are invisible to mortals (that may be important, I didnt see where it said anything about great power, but it was skim) also, the Ruach only dole out justice they dont do things for the greater good and they dont seek retribution for any deeds that occured before there sanctioning.
Amber wrote: "Yes, it is unclear who princess Ariel is. She is obviously someone Kvothe saved.The Princess part may or may not be an exaggeration.
As far as stealing Princesses from those that are Sleeping..."
I guess I just always thought that this was the story of Kvothe taking the girls from the fake Ruh troupe that has become far disambiguated from the original story. Stealing two princesses (the girls from the village) from those that are sleeping (the fake Ruh troupe were sleeping until they all started getting sick).
Even Kvothe admits that most of the rumors and stories about him are untrue (Kvothe says he starts some of them himself). I try to take a lot of the stories with a grain of salt because of that fact.
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I think Auri is a nut who may have stumbled onto something and not know even know it
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I never imagined that she was cracked. I figured she had been left on her own since she was a small child, and that's why she has such a way with words.I figured she was lost there as a child or something.
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She doesnt seem the right sort of a "cracked" to me.
But I admit, I have zero back up to that, it was just a feeling. (Which tend to be generally useless)
Amber wrote: "I sort of agree with Ions, I've never personally believe Auri was a student of the university either. She doesnt seem the right sort of a "cracked" to me.
But I admit, I have zero back up to th..."
She appears to perform sympathy, and have skill at negating Sygaldry. Both are recent inventions, so I'm not sure I agree.
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*shrug* I'm not sure how much merit the idea really has either, but I think it has some possibility to it.
I'm not sure what recent inventions have to do with it. I'm pretty certain from the description of Auri she is a pretty recent intention too, lol.either way, I love that character so I'm going to hold to my back story until I know for certain.
also, a sympathiest isn't the only one who can use a sympathy lamp. maybe she found it in the Under Thing and uses it. maybe she has over flowing with awesome power and magic. I don't know. but I'm pretty certain she isn't cracked, or a former student.
:-)
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As Elodin states, the world has lost it's edges (or corners, can't remember what he said). Auri has the craziness of a namer-gone-wrong to me. Maybe she had a dangerous life and became a namer. Why do you have to be an arcanist (I know the reasons but just go with me on this... lol)
This is great! I love reading your discussions. When Auri is with Kvothe, it makes me smile.
I think Auri was added to give Kvothe certain things he would need...ie the key, the ring etc.
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Another idea could have been to get them from Tinkers - but I think they gave Auri a storyline of her own as well that will eventually play in. I mean, Pat edits these books FOREVER so it's wouldn't be ridiculous that he added in whole parts.
He once posted a chapter he'd written in his rough draft. It was along the lines of "Ambrose does something"
That was the whole chapter outline...so adding in Auri to chapters like that probably wouldn't have been all that difficult.
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Auri and Kvothe's relationship in the story is unlike any other he builds. Auri gets to see the real Kvothe more than any other character as well. Which I always found fascinating.
Plus I think its just plain good writing. LOL.
Auri will either be dead or done with the need to live in the underthing by the end of the series. Perhaps her fears and trauma cured?If Kvothe is revealing Auri through chronicler, he would be exposing her sanctuary to the world at large. Kvothe would never do that.
Thoughts?
I'm about 95% certain that Auri isn't a normal human. I really don't think her issue is that she's a "cracked" student. First, she is apparently pretty young.
Second, Elodin has been trying to speak to her for *years.* Now, how old would she have been when she "cracked"? It doesn't really add up.
Third, and more importantly, the way she is described. Her hair literally floats. It's mentioned on more than one occasion. That's....not normal.
Fourth, despite living in an underground labyrinth, she is never, ever, dirty. How does she pull that off?
Fifth, how did she survive before Kvothe started sharing food with her?
Basically, my answers are all "because she's magic" of some kind or other. My secret theory is that she's actually a pretty old, more-than-human creature.
Bill wrote: "I'm about 95% certain that Auri isn't a normal human. I really don't think her issue is that she's a "cracked" student. First, she is apparently pretty young.
Second, Elodin has been trying to ..."
1. young but older than kovthe by serveral years if memory serves correct. relevance?
2. see above. she could also have been more brilliant than kvothe or just as...
3. she often meets kvothe in a windy area. -forget the name of it-
the court yard of sort where they used to send messages floating in the wind
4. plenty of water like in clinks.
5. apple tree, etc. she always brings food items to share with what kvothe brings she is resourceful. She is also described as being very skinny, under nourished.
not trying to be contrary, just not don't think your points add up.
BTW bill i really like your other posts. I just am not sure about this one.With my poor writing skills, the point i am trying to make may not hit home.
I mean no disrespect.
Ottomastiff wrote: "BTW bill i really like your other posts. I just am not sure about this one.With my poor writing skills, the point i am trying to make may not hit home.
I mean no disrespect."
Well, it's only a few short years til book 3 is out and we can resolve this little difference of opinion.
Let me add another couple points.
6. Why has Elodin been trying to contact her for years? Would he do that if she were simply another insane student? Seems doubtful to me.
7. The significance of her name. Elodin wouldn't care if Kvothe named a random cracked student by their true name, but he *does* seem impressed enough by Kvothe's naming Auri to let Kvothe into his naming class.
8. The constant references to Auri being his little moon-Fae. We know that Kvothe has a knack for getting things correct when he's not trying. My guess is that this is one of those occasions.
Bill wrote: "Ottomastiff wrote: "BTW bill i really like your other posts. I just am not sure about this one.With my poor writing skills, the point i am trying to make may not hit home.
I mean no disrespe..."
Bill, if you notice, Elodin appears to care for those in the rookery
Caring for each in a individual way. I could see Elodin trying for as long as it took to get close to Auri. Soon as he became aware of her, he could be haunting the roof tops just like Kvothe.
It seems perfectly in character that he would keep at trying to make contact.
I would like to think that Auri is the moon. One of my favorite characters. Let us hope for b3 soon!
Bill wrote: "...8. The constant references to Auri being his little moon-Fae. We know that Kvothe has a knack for getting things correct when he's not trying. My guess is that this is one of those occasions...."what does Auri mean? like Bill brought up Elodin was rather impressed with Kvothe's name for Auri. This most people agree is to do with nameing, it also shows that Kvothe understands her or at least his sleeping mind does.
Elodin has been to the fae world or is very familiar with it as he comments on the shadow cloak. this could be the conection with his interest in Auri.
this backs up Bill's 8th point that that Kvothe refers to Auri as his little moon fae. we know he is close to his sleeping mind when he named Auri the first time why not a second?
though a point against this is when he named the horse. I cant remember what he called it or how he interpreted it but it ended out to be something like one-sock. this could be similar with Auri, and his thinking of her as little moon fae could mean something completely different.
so to summaries: Kvothe thinks of Auri as fae, Elodin has knowledge of fae and an interest in Auri, Auri is an acurate nameing for Auri, Kvothe has been wrong before.
questions: why do the fae link these characters? How will this impact other plots? Does it connect in any way to Bast? or the story of stealing the moon?
When I find time I will try to supply the appropriate quotes to support all this.
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it's too bad it's not Ciaru, 'cause the currency widget implies that the aur- prefix refers to gold in that language
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Auri appears to be around 20 years old it suggests in the novel, so she is no younger than Kvothe
Students primarily enter the university at 17 or 18, however both Kvothe and Elodin entered younger. Since Elodin is the youngest to have ever entered the University we can assume Auri was at least 14 or 15 when she entered, Auri could have cracked anywhere in that time, and I wouldn't say she neccessarily had to be cracked before Elodin started trying to talk with her. But even so thats a gap of between 6 and 2 years, enough time to at least experience a true name.
Her hair could just as easily be incredibly thin, thus making it whispy. She lives in the underthing and doesn't come out in the day, her stores of vitamin E would probably be highly deficient, wouldn't be surprised if she has extremely neat and short fingernails to compliment her hair. (If you really wanted to reason things out.)
4&5 I think have been addressed by Pat himself a couple of times. Auri gets around. She goes places, she knows things, people don't always see her because she is up high usually. A perfect example is when she climbs into Kvothe window during the plum bob incident. In the story, Kvothe never shows Auri where he lives, but she is resourceful enough to have found it herself. She even talks about following and watching Elodin. I think effectually this explains her ability to locate food and water.
Six is really a matter of opinion, I agree with most that Elodin takes students who suffer from breaks with reality a lot more serious since he himself has experienced that. It seems to me he mostly wants to ensure her wellbeing. Especially after there dining together.
Seven - i took a completely different view of this scene. Was Elodin really impressed? I think thats an opinion. I always figured Elodin allowed Kvothe to join because he is obviously already using his Naming Ability but without control, which is dangerous. By allowing Kvothe into his class, he can bring Kvothe to an awareness of what he is doing and also monitor him to be sure he isn't calling true names he shouldn't with out realization. Kvothe's power needs to be tempered and anyone with great power has to know how to control it or it will control them.
I can't think of a plausible argument against your 8th conclusion, it does seem fairly direct. Though if she is fae why doesn't Kvothe see through her glamour after he goes to fae?
@Thistlepong are we sure it isn't ciaru? I thought Elodin only said it was mistranslation of a ciaru word? Though Gold and Sunny are rather similar.
Yes, you can refute or disagree with the theory on a point by point basis. But consider all of these factors together, and it really becomes overwhelming evidence that she isn't some simple "cracked" student.edit:
Point 9: She gives Kvothe a coin, a candle, and a key. Which we know are significant objects. Just a simple crazy ex-student?
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But at the same time I can see where others are coming from.
I would never suggest that Auri's predicament is simple, she is very complex and obviously, insane or not, can take care of herself. (Something that in my eyes, suggest she may not be cracked at all just as much as the way she goes about it, suggests she is)
Maybe Auri is Taborlin the Great. LOL! I don't think it technically says Taborlin was a man does it? Man, if thats only inferred that's actually sorta awful.
I'm not saying that *she* is simple. But having her be a cracked ex-University student is certainly the obvious, less-interesting possibility.Point 10: Auri's non-sensical seeming conversations with Kvothe are actually full of deeper meanings and hidden truths. (Speculation.)
Point 11: PR is clever. Perhaps a little too clever. I think Arkham's razor applies in this case. (And no, I didn't mean Occam's razor.)
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Years could easily be, like, three. So she was seventeen? Unusual but not unheard of. Elodin. Sim. Kvothe. All enrolled younger. Three years makes plenty of sense as it'd coincide with his "escape" from Haven. Note that that doesn't directly challenge Bill's broader supposition, just that portion of the proof.
I really want most of these people to be just that. People. But there's a lot of fantasy around many of them.
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thistlepong wrote: "Quick search shows Marten using male pronouns in his story.Years could easily be, like, three. So she was seventeen? Unusual but not unheard of. Elodin. Sim. Kvothe. All enrolled younger. ..."
By the same token, years could also mean 10, 20, or 30. The literal minimum is 2, the maximum is simply a number we can't calculate but could be any time from Elodin entering the University to the present time. So, a number of years ranging from 2 to likely 20-40 depending on Elodin's age.
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The reason for her being cracked could plausibly be quite intriguing actually. Her being fae is straight up, no real explanations needed for all the actions she takes, I almost find this route more boring, though I'd prefer Auri to be sane. Her being cracked, yet still seeing herself with a purpose could actually be a cool subplot. Especially since she happens to know how to get into places she shouldnt.
One thing I always thought was off about the story is she shows Kvothe a secret way into the Archives, but he never bothers to ask if she knows anything about the 4 plate door. Coincidence?
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Amber wrote: "I don't know if her being cracked is the less interesting route."
Except, cracked students are a dime-a-dozen at the University. Fae creatures who give out magical artifacts are much less so.
thistlepong wrote: "Sure, dealing in raw numbers 2-* is possible . I was just trying to put it in context: at least Elodin's time at the University, probably his post crackin' life. The theoretical maximum drops to..."Well, there's nothing to say he couldn't have looked for her before, or after, his time being cuckoo. So, I would object to the "probably" part.
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Would a cracked student handing out trinkets in the faen world be more compelling?
Elodin is just another cracked student if you want to get down to it and yet he still holds an immense amount of mystery. The same can be said of Puppet.
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I pointed out that it didn't damage your theory. I merely wanted to remove a variable that's frankly annoying. The most impressive Namer of a generation spent a decade failing at anything?
Amber wrote: "Fae creatures who give out magical artifacts are a dime a dozen in the fae. That doesn't make it any less interesting when we go there though does it?Would a cracked student handing out trinkets..."
Well first, when I say she's giving out magical artifacts, I mean she's giving out magical Artifacts, D&D style. I'm talking one-of-a-kind items that appear out of stories, specifically Taborlin the Great's coin, key, and candle.
Also, according to the internets, I give you point, what, 11? 12?
In any case, Auri=Princess Ariel, who Kvothe saves from a barrow king. Supposedly the Ariel is pronounced "Auri-el" on the audiobooks.
Point 13: Auri is assumed by Kvothe to be an ex-student. I think one of the underlying motifs of the series is what happens when you rely on assumptions, and so I think that we can safely assume that whatever Kvothe assumes is incorrect. Yes, I see what I did there.
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Auri is described as a thin haired malnourished waif when we first meet her. Utterly dissimilar to the other Faelings we see.
She shows no particular antipathy for iron or copper. Both known to irritate the Fae.
The entrance to the Underthing is barred by sygaldry requiring one or both of the above. Which she must operate and may have etched.
She has a Vintic accent, Cealdish habits, and a Commonwealth address. It's all mundanely quotidian.
Someone pointed out this is all Kote telling a story as well. The key, coin, and candle are pulled from Cob's story in chapter one. Anyone hoping to compare hirself to Taborlin would wanna toss that in there.
All but the last need to be reconciled with any vaguely magical suspicions.
Well, I should clarify that my main position was not to prove that she was Fae, but that she wasn't an ex-student. Leaving open other possibilities.
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D'oh.
I have also considered the possibility that she is not a studen at all. Mola doesn't seem to recognize her and she is an Elthe. So has been at The University for at least...what, Four Years or six?
Maybe we should factor that in to the calculations for Elodin? Mola seems to know other students like Fela and even Devi, so it seems she may have known Auri, especially if she had EVER been admitted to Haven.
Amber wrote: "I could have swore your main point was to prove she was magical in nature....obviously I took this out of context.D'oh.
I have also considered the possibility that she is not a studen at all. M..."
Yes, I think she's magical somehow. No, I don't think she's an ex-student. And it doesn't look like she's Fae either. But there are realms of possibilities left over.
The big question is will he find a dragon shout at the end of the barrow?
Said it in another thread, as for her being cracked, I was playing with the idea that she was the one Ambrose made dissapear. Not my idea anymore, I'm sticking with that she isordal, she's not cracked just so innocent.