Jude the Obscure: Week 5 - Part Fifth

[Lily]

One aspect of Jude's and Sue's lives as Hardy presents them to his readers is the lack of sustaining relationships, either in their young lives or in their adult lives. It is almost as if their young lives did not adequately alert them to their needs for such and their choices in their adult lives tended to alienate what could have been available.

I am not certain Hardy particularly wanted his readers to (always) sympathize with his characters, but I think he did want them to understand that this is what life is like for some people. Perhaps even to understand in relatively non-judgmental ways.

I think one can look at the story and see all sorts of points where it could have moved in "happier" directions. But that is not the story Hardy gave us to consider.

[MadgeUK]

But that is not the story Hardy gave us to consider.

Very true Lily, that was not the story he wished to tell and it was, of course, his downfall as a novelist:(.

I guess the lack of sustaining relationships might come from them both being from failed marriages/relationships themselves? This would be in keeping with the Eugenics arguments which were popular in Hardy's time and, of course, to later psychoanalytical ideas. Both Freud and John Bowlby for instance, wrote of the relationship between maternal loss and children who later commit suicide, or try to do so.

[Jan]

Precisely. You said that so well, Lily. These people didn't have access to self-help books, psychiatrists, psychologists,anti-depressants,social workers, The Power of Positive Thinking, supportive parents and extended family, aunts, cousins...cousins? ...well, apart from eachother! Even in our modern era, when we do have more possibilities for help, the prevalence of depression would suggest that it's pretty hard to overcome even with all these advantages.
Now I do think that Hardy overdosed on tragedy in this final part of the book and I'm certainly glad that I didn't read it when I was young, as I'm sure I would have hated it even more than I hated Tess at that age.
Nevertheless I totally agree with your point that Hardy is saying that this is what life is like for some people. And I think he is questioning the blaming fingers of Victorian society. As well as painting a picture of their life. And like any great artist, there is much that can be seen in his work. And many possible interpretations.

[MadgeUK]

Well said Jan. Yes, he did overdose on tragedy but the Victorians loved morbid melodramas such as this and I have wondered whether he did so in an effort to make the novel more popular but that idea backfired and his readership just concentrated on the 'immorality' of it?

[MadgeUK]

I am worried that we are now discussing Part Sixth stuff here? Can we continue there?

[Lily]

Jan wrote: "Precisely. You said that so well, Lily. These people didn't have access to ....supportive parents and extended family, aunts, cousins...cousins? ...well, apart from each other!"

Thanks, Jan. It did take me a few rewrites and I am not sure I've made clear my underlying concerns yet. But, will let these sit for now.

Your comments weren't exactly shabby either. I especially like .

Nevertheless I totally agree ... that Hardy is saying that this is what life is like for some people. And I think he is questioning the blaming fingers of Victorian society. As well as painting a picture of their life. And like any great artist, there is much that can be seen in his work. And many possible interpretations.

Jude felt he had to move away from the guild that could have supported him. Sue couldn't get work. Even bar buddies melted away as they found their solace solely with each other. Sadly, Father Time even became a rather perverse obsession for them to raise, rather than much of a source of some joy and fun. But I will go to Part 6 as Madge suggests to continue some comments.

[Deborah, Moderator]

I'm kicking myself. I've been stressed and overtired so I cannot concentrate and read ;-(. I'm behind when I'm usually right on the money. Maybe tomorrow while I'm cat cuddling at the rescue group.

[MadgeUK]

Have a good cuddle and return refreshed tomorrow Deborah:).