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Who Are Your Most Hated Fantasy Characters
message 51:
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Bets
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Apr 15, 2011 02:44PM
I only count it (albeit erroneously) because most of the people who read it count it as fantasy. This matters because it skews the market for us. On the bad side, it leads to more shit like that being published. On the upside, when the general public likes fantasy, we get more fantasy.
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I think a positive of the whole Twilight craze is that it is getting younger people interesting in reading. Iam now in my thirties and some of the books I read when I was a pre teen are pretty cringe worthy now that Iam older. My reading tastes matured as Iam sure some of the Twilight fans will too. I personally don't get the craze myself but I think Iam too old to. But I also don't like to bash the series too much because I don't want to discourage anyone from reading. The fans of Twilight today might grow into fans of more adult tradional fantasy tomorrow.
Re-reading A Game of Thrones....I realized today that I forgot to mention Viserys. Ugh.
I'm thinking...because as soon as I saw the heading Thomas Covenant leapt to mind. I'm hoping to be more original if I give it some thought.As for Wheel of Time...I hated the entire "battle of the sexes" motif more than any given participant. At one time or another I was ready to pull my hair out over most of them.
Chris wrote: "Re-reading A Game of Thrones....I realized today that I forgot to mention Viserys. Ugh."I was just thinking that a little bit ago while reading, Chris! Great minds :)
Oh I hated that character! Every time I read Viserys mention "the dragon" I almost cringed. Unlikable and the flatest character in the book. Another character I hated was Boromir & Faramir's father from Lord of the Rings. I forgot how mad he made me.
Viserys deserves a beating and all, but I don't really hate the guy
Ala wrote: "Viserys deserves a beating and all, but I don't really hate the guy"It's hard to hate someone (view spoiler)
Eneida - spoiler maybe (Red Wedding comment)? I haven't read it in a while so maybe not, but better safe than sorry...
@Denae: that may be it. He already got what was coming to him, and then some.
@Eneida: Frey's house, Frey's fault.
and every single Frey should pay
@Eneida: Frey's house, Frey's fault.
and every single Frey should pay
Ala wrote: and every single Frey should pay"Can we pretend that godawful excuse for a reviewer over at the NY Times and any editors who let her publish this are Freys? Pretty please? /rage
Don't even get me started on that piece of shit article. *face stabs reporter*
Woah...uh...that article deserves it's own thread.
eta: I'm not starting the thread, but someone else feel free to :P
also, holy shit this review made me rage.
eta: I'm not starting the thread, but someone else feel free to :P
also, holy shit this review made me rage.
Ala wrote: "Woah...uh...that article deserves it's own thread.eta: I'm not starting the thread, but someone else feel free to :P
also, holy shit this review made me rage."
done
I logged in to rate is a 1 and it wasn't able to post my rating. I then wrote a scathing review of the review which also wasn't able to be posted.
Fuckers.
Fuckers.
Wow, you guys are super upset! Ummm, have anyone seen it yet? Maybe the TV show doesn't do the book any justice. I know that the TV show The Stand made me throw up in my mouth with the awfulness that it was.
Prince Joffrey. i'm a fan of interesting, well-developed, richly characterized villains. or stylish, witty villains. or villains who are so alien, so strange, that you could never guess their motivations. he is none of those things. his one-note villainy becomes irritatingly monotonous at times, and is perhaps the only flaw in SOIF (at least so far, i'm only 2 awesome books in).
MrsJoseph wrote: "Wow, you guys are super upset!
Ummm, have anyone seen it yet? Maybe the TV show doesn't do the book any justice. I know that the TV show The Stand made me throw up in my mouth with the awfuln..."
In all honesty, it doesn't look like that reviewer watched it yet either.
The problem isn't that she's bashing the show. It's her reasons behind it, which are pretty much idiotic.
Ummm, have anyone seen it yet? Maybe the TV show doesn't do the book any justice. I know that the TV show The Stand made me throw up in my mouth with the awfuln..."
In all honesty, it doesn't look like that reviewer watched it yet either.
The problem isn't that she's bashing the show. It's her reasons behind it, which are pretty much idiotic.
I don't like the character of Thomas Covenant much, but I right love the series. I think parts of the story benefit from you not sympathizing with him, as well. It's all about how you use it, really.
As for my personal choice, that's a toughie. When I think of characters I hate, my mind just jumps to 'A Confederacy of Dunces' so immediately that I cannot really think around it and find others. And that isn't a fantasy novel. I guess I can go with a blanket statement: if they were a character in Marked, they are - without a doubt - despicable human beings/vampires.
As for my personal choice, that's a toughie. When I think of characters I hate, my mind just jumps to 'A Confederacy of Dunces' so immediately that I cannot really think around it and find others. And that isn't a fantasy novel. I guess I can go with a blanket statement: if they were a character in Marked, they are - without a doubt - despicable human beings/vampires.
Ala wrote: "MrsJoseph wrote: "Wow, you guys are super upset! Ummm, have anyone seen it yet? Maybe the TV show doesn't do the book any justice. I know that the TV show The Stand made me throw up in my mouth..."
I've seen that initial few minutes that HBO made available and her review does seem as though she did not watch even that. It wasn't the sort of thing where she attacks the show as an adaptation of the book, she attacked the entire concept, book and show included.
I was PO'd that she claimed that only men read fantasy. I guess I grew a penis when I wasn't looking... :-(
oh my gosh, i could not stand that protagonist of Confederacy either. ugh. i couldn't finish that novel because the protagonist was so aggravating, and that is the only time that has happened to me. the main thing i took from that novel was a lot of empathy for the protagonist's much-reviled mother.
I ... don't think I'd better read this article. I'm feeling pretty mellow (and unmasculine) today.
mark wrote: "oh my gosh, i could not stand that protagonist of Confederacy either. ugh. i couldn't finish that novel because the protagonist was so aggravating, and that is the only time that has happened to me..."
Yes, I had this problem as well, though I had to read it for a high school assignment so I did end up finishing it. The protagonist in particular was just so grossly unlikable, and I get that this was the point, but it just didn't work in that book. I think in books where I don't like the protagonist, I can still like the book if there are sympathetic supporting characters and an interesting story. But I could barely stand ANY of the major characters, and the story wasn't really to my liking.
Yes, I had this problem as well, though I had to read it for a high school assignment so I did end up finishing it. The protagonist in particular was just so grossly unlikable, and I get that this was the point, but it just didn't work in that book. I think in books where I don't like the protagonist, I can still like the book if there are sympathetic supporting characters and an interesting story. But I could barely stand ANY of the major characters, and the story wasn't really to my liking.
I actually don't hate Fritz from Assassin's Apprentice, but it is just a problem I have with him. The problem is just that if he is going to be an assassin of any sort, I am just biased to expected him not to be the Hero of the book, at least not a good guy, but an antihero. The reason is that my perspective of Assassin is that they are always going to be on the evil side one way or another. So it is ironic that Fritz is actually an assassin.
What are you saying Kevin? i didn't understand that comment.
I have to agree with Kevin. As a job, none can really get more evil than an assassin don't you think? I mean, when your whole job is to kill people quickly and quietly, it's not exactly puppy dogs and rose petals. And truly I don't see Fitz having the proper persona for the job except the fact that he always seemed malleable to me. Like he wasn't ever finished growing due to his childhood. And that he was still impressionable in all the wrong ways. He never seems to make his own mind up except in the negative. He isn't my favorite character either. Although I must say that I do love Robin Hobb's writing in all her other series's
I have to disagree with you Kelly, Fitz is one of my favorite characters, because even though he makes mistakes, he is still a good guy, he is honorable, loyal and a trustworthy person.
Kelly wrote: "I have to agree with Kevin. As a job, none can really get more evil than an assassin don't you think? I mean, when your whole job is to kill people quickly and quietly, it's not exactly puppy dogs ..."Could not agree with you more, Fitz is too nice of a character, makes too many mistakes, mostly does not work along to be considered to be an assassin.
Grant wrote: "Fitz."Sorry, I missed spelled his name.
Perrin. Wheel of Time. "I know I'm strong, I have great power, but 'grumble, grumble" I don't want it. I don't want to be a leader "grumble, grumble.' Thirteen books and he is doing the same thing. "Smashes head into wall"
The kid from Boneshaker. He's not evil or anything, just so damned annoying that I want to shove him into a cuisanart.
Terry wrote: "Perrin. Wheel of Time. "I know I'm strong, I have great power, but 'grumble, grumble" I don't want it. I don't want to be a leader "grumble, grumble.' Thirteen books and he is doing the same thing...."LOL and can you believe he's one of my favorites from Wheel of Time? Of course I'm only three books in so far.
Perrin annoys the crap out of me sometimes, but I can't say I hate him really.
I like Perrin but it's about time he stopped dreaming about the village life and faced up to his responsibilities.
I loved Ignatious! A Confederacy of Dunces is on my faves list. I don't LIKE him at all, he is atrocious, but that's the point.
Waylander was an assassin and he was a hero. Maybe a bit of a antihero but still he did good for the sake of good. I haven;t read the Fitz books but I love Waylander and he makes a great hero. Sometimes the best hero is the one you weren't expecting.
Waylander is a favorite of mine also. He's a man who is forced to look at his life and see the ruin he's wrought. He then not only turns, but accepts responsibility for his actions (which were actually a reaction to a tragedy in his own life) and becomes a hero. One of my all time favorite characters.
I heart Waylander. :-)
CicadaGrrl wrote: "Valerie wrote: "I was fine with Jacob until Eclipse, when he randomly turned into a douchebag. However, there wasn't a single moment when I didn't want to drop-kick Edward off a cliff. I thought he..."I have only seen the first twilight movie and haven't read any of the books and i was wondering why a 108 year old is still at high school? doesn' anyone else think this is strange? the guy is a powerful 108 year old vampire he can do whatever he want, but he is going in high school and dating teenagers ? come on that's ridicoulus.
Machavelli wrote: "CicadaGrrl wrote: "Valerie wrote: "I was fine with Jacob until Eclipse, when he randomly turned into a douchebag. However, there wasn't a single moment when I didn't want to drop-kick Edward off a ..."This (and the twinkling) is what made me decide finally not to read the books. A lot of places show that Edward & Bella are in an abusive relationship - I can't do that...it creeps me out:
From here: http://vampirely.wordpress.com/2009/0...
The Twilight Saga and domestic abuse
This probably won’t be funny, so tl;dr for those of you who want laughs: Bella just fell down the stairs, Edward loves her okay he loves her she just makes him mad sometimes. Also, Twilight is serious business.
I know I make light of this a lot, but I wanted to break it down, point by point. From what I have seen so far, the Twilight series is about abuse, plain and simple. Edward is an emotional batterer, and Bella is constantly and persistently victimized by his actions. What makes it sad is that the author herself seems to have no idea that she was writing about an abusive, codependent teenage relationship. If she knew, I have a feeling she would have at least attempted to address some of the issues caused and raised by her characters and their relationships with each other.
This issue is somewhat personal to me. I have been in relationships with manipulative, and, at times, emotionally abusive people. I, like many people, also have friends who have a history of abuse. Because of this, you would assume that Bella would be a sympathetic character. This would be the case, were I not aware of the intent behind the writing. The relationship, despite its obviously harmful characteristics, is displayed as romantic. Edward, fans of the series say, is chivalrous, protective, and honorable. He opens doors for Bella. He’s sweet and thoughtful. He’s noble and caring. The creepiest part of all of this is that the justifications fans create for Edward and Bella’s actions are eerily similar to what victims of abuse tell themselves while they try to cope with their harmful relationship.
Let’s get a little deeper and dirtier with some examples. The symptoms of abuse are easy to find online, I am referencing the list found on HelpGuide.org.
Abusers use the following tactics to remain in control of their victims:
1. Dominance. Abusive individuals (for example, Edward Cullen) need to exert control over their partners. By say, making their decisions for them (“Bella, please just do this my way, just this once.” Or, the “memory tampering” in chapter 17 of Twilight. Or dragging her to the prom in the epilogue), and expecting to obey without question (the whole of chapter 18 when Bella attempts to argue with Edward). Further example of this can be found in the fact that Edward refuses to let Bella drive, and their carefully constructed “rules” on what physical conduct is acceptable and unacceptable, rules which often come to Bella’s detriment.
2. Humiliation. An abuser will do whatever they can to make you feel bad about yourself, or “defective” in some way (i.e. Edward’s conversations with Bella through much of Twilight revolving around the fact that she is an idiot for being with him, she can’t survive without him, etc.) The idea is that you are the crazy one, and if you believe you’re worthless and can’t find someone else, you won’t ever leave. Bella makes comments in Twilight and early on in New Moon to the effect of “I am too plain and boring for Edward, I don’t deserve him.” This is the product of naturally low self-esteem, and, in realistic characters, the fact that her lover calls her an idiot whenever he can.
3. Isolation. The abuser needs their victim to be dependent on them, and will often try to do this by cutting you off from the outside world. Edward seems to perpetuate this less on his own, as Bella readily throws herself into it. She has no actual friends in the series beyond Edward and his sister, Alice. Her only social activity is working at the local sports store, if you can call that social. She is willing to isolate herself from her parents as well, if it would mean getting to spend eternity with her abuser. You could argue that Edward is manipulating her into this (I mean, really, there’s nothing bad about being a vampire).
4. Threats. Abusers will threaten violence on their victims in order to exert further control. In the Twilight series, this is a little more subtle and insidious. Edward warns Bella that he could hurt her, that he could lose control at any moment. In chapter 8 of Twilight, he admits to having murderous thoughts regarding the ruffians Bella was accosted by, to further illustrate how dangerous he is. Even more shocking, he tells Bella later that he wanted to kill her when they first met. Every chance he gets, he “warns” her that he could murder her at a moment’s notice. Worse, his attempts at “saving” her often end in physical harm coming to her anyway, such as the James “conflict” and Bella’s birthday party in New Moon. Bella learns to make excuses and quick stories for the bruises, cuts, and broken bones she sustains, in a rather unsettling mirror of an abuse victim’s behavior. That’s not to mention Edward’s vague suicidal threats, should anything happen to Bella.
5. Intimidation. Abusers will often try to scare their victims into submission. Edward in chapter 13 of Twilight, jumping around, smashing trees, showing off how fast and strong he is, in an attempt to make Bella frightened of him. Do I really need to say more?
6. Denial and blame. Abusers are very good at making their own excuses for their actions, and shifting the blame. Again, this is a little more subtle in the Twilight series. Edward blames his behavior on being a vampire, on having to resist human blood, and on having buried his humanity for so long. In a supernatural setting, it’s hard to say that these excuses are not justified, but they are still excuses. Bella, again, readily assumes the blame for anything bad that happens to her as a result of Edward’s actions. Edward will occasionally make the token effort to convince her this isn’t the case, but there are a few times where she shoulders the blame unhindered. Edward has also told Bella that if she gets hurt, he’s going to blame it all on her. He also seems to think that if she kisses him too hard and he eats her, that’s going to be her fault as well.
Abusers will also exhibit signs of remorse after periods of abuse, entering the “honeymoon phase” of the cycle. They will make it up to the abused in whatever way they can, in an attempt to keep the victim with them. They may say “I’m sorry I hurt you,” when what they mean is “I’m sorry I hurt you, because I might get caught.” This creates further conflict in a victim who would otherwise leave the relationship–”when he’s not making me feel like garbage, he’s very sweet.” Edward writes songs for Bella, and offers to buy her expensive gifts. Then he refuses to let her drive and warns of the threat of violence if she open-mouth kisses him.
Bella, as well, exhibits signs of someone who is abused. She accepts the blame readily when terrible things happen, especially when it was through no fault of her own. She suffers mysterious injuries, and will have elaborate tales for how she sustained them (“I fell down the stairs and into a window”). She has incredibly low self-esteem, and considers herself lucky to be with Edward. She is always ready with an excuse when Edward begins to treat her coldly, hurts her, or otherwise emotionally abuses her.
Abuse, whether it’s physical, emotional, or sexual, is a real issue. It can be insidious, as the abusers are often very good at hiding their behavior from others, or even convincing others that they should be excused from what they do, due to everything from a bad childhood to a bad day. Emotional abuse is unfortunately the most ignored, as it leaves no obvious bruises or scars. Victims will assume that since their partner has not put them in the hospital, there is no abuse occurring at all. Seeing it occur so blatantly in Twilight, a book that is shoved down the throats of young girls as a model romance, honestly makes me scared. Watching others defend the story with the same reasons and excuses abusers and their victims would use doesn’t just make me scared. It makes me sick.
But it’s just a kid’s novel about vampires. It’s not that big a deal.
I like your post Ms Joseph.I too think the attitude teens have about dating violence is in a crisis mode. I do foster care for teen girls and it is amazing the stuff they will put up with in the name of having a boyfriend. Just the other day one of my kids was trying to convince me that the Eminem song Love The Way You Lie is about a good guy with a bad girlfriend...
As long as our society keeps making a point to teens that they need to be in a relationship and they are nothing with out one, this thought process will continue.
I found this post interesting. I actually have a problem with most of Bella's relationships in the series. Also I really don't like how Edward sneaks into her bedroom every night. Not a good message to send. And the way her & Edward treat her father! I have a problem with the father trying to get her to date Jacob but on the other hand she needs to be treated like a teenager living at home. By the way Stehanie Meyer's other book The Host has even more abuse.
wow mrs joseph, what a review. incredibly interesting and thoughtful.if you haven't already, you should turn this into an actual review of the book. seriously, please do it! a review this interesting must be shared!
Maggie wrote: "I like your post Ms Joseph.I too think the attitude teens have about dating violence is in a crisis mode. I do foster care for teen girls and it is amazing the stuff they will put up with in the..."
What?? Somebody help the children.
MrsJoseph wrote: "Maggie wrote: "I like your post Ms Joseph.I too think the attitude teens have about dating violence is in a crisis mode. I do foster care for teen girls and it is amazing the stuff they will put..."
I know-it's crazy
It's definately not a new problem though. I know it's an extremely popular book but I don't think Wuthering Heights is romantic. Heathcliff is a jerk. Darcy from Pride & Prejudice elitist snob. The book Jane Eyre is one of my favorites but again a guy you wouldn't want your daughter marrying. And I already mentioned Romeo & Juliet earlier.
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