Creative Reviews discussion
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Michelle wrote: "Hey! My name is Michelle and I recently started a book review blog to stop my slow descent into madness during the exam period. Even experimented a little with CSS to make it look pretty.I'd love ..."
Hey Michelle! I agree with Cambria, the wolf is so beautiful! I LOVE wolves so now I must stalk simply for the fact that you love wolves too *hehe*
~Annabell
http://www.nerdalien.com/
Mod
Thanks Jenn, so far all of my clients have been really great, I so a lot of work with my authors and generally develop a decent relationship with them. I absolutely love my job!! Thanks for the well wishes. :)
@ TC First time author or aspiring authors don't always know certain aspects of writing a book. I think I've had to deal with one writer who didnt appreciate my critique of her novel. I had another author, who's book I liked, that I reviewed, get snippy about why I liked the book because I had compared it to Shakesphere's work and that was meant as a GOOD thing *shakes head* It was weird lol. For the most part, I've dealt with authors who get where I'm coming from. But I did have to deal with editor once who was not very nice person.And I agree, its not about HOW you decide to be published, its about the fact that your novel should be FINISHED and at least have the basic editing done cause readers will notice.
LOL you just gotta go with what you feel is right for you when it comes to taking classes. And I'm with you, I can spot mistakes but if I like the novel I'm reading I can ignore them until I'm done and just enjoy the book.
Mod
You need to invest in your work if you want people to take it seriously. If publishing houses could get away with bringing a few people in to edit their books prior to publication and save the money on us editors, they would in a heartbeat. We are not cheap, but we are worth our weight in gold when we point out a flaw in your book that would have killed it completely. I have seen many indie books that would have been FANTASTIC if they would have paid for an editor, but ended up being good, or pretty good because they extra "spark" was missing that an editor would have been able to help inspire.
You can usually find 'cheap' editors out there, but you have to remember also - you get what you pay for. Your editor should want to work with you one on one if you are getting content editing done...it is critical. (I'm stepping off my soapbox now...LOL)
Agree with all of that! Difference between ODS original draft and finished draft is huge. In my book (pun intended) editors are key to a polished book. Imho, in order to be a valid alternative indie-pubbed books have to actually be *more* harshly edited than trad-pubbed, and have to be better, because there is this perception that indie / self-pub = vanity pub.
Every time a bad indie book is released it's a step backwards for all the others who actually did put in the effort, whereas every professional-standard indie pulls the others up a little bit. We are, as indie authors, all in this together, and we owe it to ourselves and each other to do it well.
(Not to mention basic business sense that if it's good it will have a long shelf-life but if it's rubbish it probably will not).
Indie authors don't tend to have much in the way of spare money and you can only invest what you have, in which case I would say that talented amateur editor is def better than nothing as if the book sparks enough interest you can always come back and get it edited more expensively later. (The other thing I have yet to work out is whether editors know what's acceptable in both American and UK English, and edit accordingly, or tend to be location-specific? Any thoughts on that one?)
Annabell, someone was OFFENDED by being likened to Shakespeare?!!! Y'know, if it was suggested that my work was similar to someone known across the world as one of the best playwrights of the last 500 years, and whose sales account for a substantial amount of the classics shelf FIVE CENTURIES after being written - well, even if I didn't love his stuff as much as I do, on a mercenary point I might not be entirely dischuffed!!!
JAC
Amy wrote: "To respond to so many of you who have been talking about POV, grammar and punctuation....There are many authors out there who do not know the first thing about rules of the English language. Unfort..."Who exactly were you speaking about that has no knowledge of comma use-er-puncutatuon and grammmar, missy? hmph.
LOL. jk. although, I admit it prob was me. Ain't no shame here. hehehehe.
But at least I knew enough to hire an editor to fix my stuff.
Editors (at least goo ones anyway) are not cheap but the money is worth it. It would be like going out and buying a BMW but never having its oil changed or washing it.
I sincerely beleive that if you want to get the most out of your manuscript that you have to find an editor who is good and who is willing to debate of a single word change with you.
PLUS...as a writer you cannot proof your own stuff. You just can't. You know the characters and story like the back of your hand. Sure, thats great but sometimes its a problem. SOmetimes you write things in such a way that assumes the reader knows as much as you do. They don't. its the writers job to make sure they do. and the editors job to point out where it wasn't done right.
My editor pointed out lots of little things that I was like "Oh yeah." (and okay sometimes she points out things that make me want to smack myself for not seeing at all the first 50 times i read the book)
J.A. wrote: "Agree with all of that! Difference between ODS original draft and finished draft is huge. In my book (pun intended) editors are key to a polished book. Imho, in order to be a valid alternative ..."
Interesting point about the location of editing and the different countries....I would think that a good editor would realize where the book is coming from and take that into account but if she or he stumbles across a phrase that is sctrictly from one country then they should suggest an alternate phrasing...not because the first phrasing was necessarily wrong but just to give the book a wider reach. I think any good editor would make it his/her business to understabd where ever the book is coming from.
I can't imagine getting upset of being sompared to Shakespeare but hey, you can't make everyone happy. Some people only see the negative.
And for the record I think Indie authors should be treated the same as the big publisher authors. No matter who is publishing the goal should be the same: a great book that the writer can be proud of.
Mod
JA - I really do agree with what you said about the indie authors who publish their unedited manuscripts. There is a reputation out there that self published authors and indie authors aren't as good as traditionally published authors. I didn't start the rumor, so don't shoot the messenger. Part of this reason is that many of these authors are in a hurry to see their work out there in the mass of published books, or they are too vain to believe their manuscript could be any better, or they trusted their 'free' help (friends, family..etc) to 'edit' their work.
When this happens, people who are willing to give indie authors a shot see these types of messes, and it reaffirms the stereotype of the indie author. All authors should hold themselves to the same standards, it doesn't matter how the manuscript gets to the public: traditional, indie, or self pub.
This is YOUR work, and you are representing YOURSELF and your TALENT. If you put out a great plot line but crappy style, content, and your plot is full of discrepancies, or it comes along as drab, people are not going to see the part of your talent that really shines...your creative side. The editors are there to really bring forth that talent, and let the rest of the world see it.
And Cambria - Goofball, I was NOT talking about you!! LOL
Yeah, sure....scuse me while i get out the vodka....LOL
J.A. wrote: "Agree with all of that! Difference between ODS original draft and finished draft is huge. In my book (pun intended) editors are key to a polished book. Imho, in order to be a valid alternative ..."
LOL! @J.A. Yes, a writer who's book I read and reviewed had been offened I had the nerve to compare her book to anything, even Shaksphere. I had also said there was a resemblance to Twilight in certain aspects, maybe that didn't help haha! If someone said my book or short story or poem manage to sound anything like Shakesphere I would be thrilled! They could say a bunch more horrible things and I would still only remember that one comparison!! lol
~Annabell
I think there's two reasons why Indie authors are so misunderstood and somewhat looked down upon. 1) Because so many Indie authors publish their novels without a good edit. They write it and think that's all it takes. Not realizing one draft of a novel is known as a ROUGH DRAFT not an END product. 2)Because Vanity Publishing is known as Indie Publishing. There's a small difference that separates the two (as far as I know). Vanity is another word for Self-Publishing whereas Indie is mostly e-books. I may be wrong about that but that's how I've come to understand them.I think all writers, whether indie or self-published or commerical published or aspiring should all be treated the same. With respect and supportive criticism. Editing has to be done regardless of how you choose to publish your novel. I think Indie authors need a little bit more work only because they don't have a huge publisher flipping the bill.
As a writer, your work is what speaks for you. If its sloppy, if you never took the time to get over your pride and take a really good look at your work, a reader will notice and dismiss it quickly. A good writer knows that asking for help is a strength, not a weakness.
~Annabell
Annabell,there is a bit more of a diff than that.Vanity publishing refers to publishers who advertise for authors, tell them their MS is superb and the best thing EVER and then charge the author to publish it. Because the vanity press usually is paid by the author they have no interest in selling the book so they just bung whatever's in the MS into some shoddy binding, churn out 5000 of them (or however many) and then give them to the author to get rid of. The results are often unreadable.
Self-published refers to people who publish their own stuff; it ranges from basically whatever they had sitting in Word that day, to people like myself who go to some trouble to produce something of quality that's worth selling.
Indie publishers covers basically anyone who's not a big publishing house, from the small presses to individuals like me.
Problem is that all these terms overlap like a Venn diagram, so decent indie books that have been self-published get lumped in together with ones like the one the SFWA put together where they got a different writer to write each chapter with no knowledge of what went on in any previous chapter or what the characters were called. It was a kind of competition to write the worst bit of lumpish prose imaginable, and they came up with some corkers. Then they added formatting errors and typos and sent it to a vanity press who gushed about it in terms that made it clear they hadn't read it, and charged them megabucks to print it.
That's the impression that we have to fight against; and it's an issue that trad-pubbed authors don't have though some trad-pubbed books are extremely badly formatted for Kindle as well.
That's why we have to be better than the norm; because we have a negative impression to counteract. Alas a lot of trash still gets put up there. Still, in 5 years time the trash will either have sunk or have been replaced with new trash, and if mine is still ticking along doing a couple of books a week, at least I'll know people are reading it.
Hmmm; am I ranting again? Bad habit when tired.
Moving day tomorrow...
JAC
@JAC That's what I've read about vanity publishers. Have never read anything good about them. There are MANY scams surrounding vanity publishers. I think that's why there's so much negativity surrounding self-published and even more so, Indie authors. People just assume it all means the same thing and Indie authors are either being scammed or committing scams.And I agree, a ton of trash is being published far too easily. There are way too many books that should have gone through better editing and some completely rewritten before released. It's because publishers (mainstream really) are searching author's work more for trend because it's easier to make a profit than for the actual talent a writer possess. There will always be trash but readers to a good degree are able to tell the difference bewteen something that's worth paying for and spreading the word about then something that simply falls into the new popular hype.
LOL ranting is fun ;)
I HATE moving days because of all the packing and then unpacking and putting stuff away. Very tiring. But then its nice to have everything in a new place and set up. New beginning =)
Best of luck to you! Try not to kill anyone by dropping a box full of pans on top of them lol!
Thanks!Well box of pans might give em a headache - it's when I accidentally let go of my end of the sofabed halfway up the stairs, that can cause......irritation, shall we say...?!
Gonna be unpacking for WEEKS! At any rate will probably drop offline for a few days, unless I surf while commuting (assuming I stay awake)
Talking of which, past my bedtime again and another 0430am call tomorrow....
Catch you later peeps - have an excellent day!
JAC
OpenBookSociety.com wrote: "I think there's two reasons why Indie authors are so misunderstood and somewhat looked down upon. 1) Because so many Indie authors publish their novels without a good edit. They write it and think ..."Well said. A writer know that asking for help is a strength not a weakness. :)
Hi meagan! Thank you for your link!!! Nice to see you on here!@JA- I really dislike moving!! Good luck and try not to drop a sofa bed! Lol.
@Cambria Thank you!@JA Good luck tomorrow with moving! I hope if you do drop the sofa it's not on anyone's foot or head LOL!
Meagan wrote: "Here's mine http://readersquest.blogspot.com/I normally review young adult and pultizer books. I also do reading challenges. I'm slow on updating so don't be shocked if I update at least once o..."
Heyaz Megan! Nice to meet yaz! Thanks for sharing!
I have a blog also in case you want to check it out and join: http://www.nerdalien.com/
Please stop by and visit.http://worldstodiscover.com/Storyteller
http://www.insidethebooks.com/
and on twitter
@WTDiscover
@LabyrinthsDoor
@InsideTheBook
J.A. wrote: "Agree with all of that! Difference between ODS original draft and finished draft is huge. In my book (pun intended) editors are key to a polished book. Imho, in order to be a valid alternative ..."
I know that it is a huge frustration to me, as a reader (and as someone trained to use proper grammar, spelling, punctuation, POV, word usage, etc.), to read something that has been poorly edited. If I knew to whom to speak, I would contact him or her and BEG them to use me as an editor rather than whoever did the poor editing job ... And I would be willing to do it for books - give me copies of any of the books published I want, and I'll edit for you :-) Heh.
As far as English vs. American English - I read a lot, so I know a lot of both usages - more than most Americans, I'd say.
Sooooo ... anyone need some editing done? ;-)
Katy
On the subject of UK vs US spellings, terms and so on, I don't really mind which an author uses as long as they are consistent and use one of them correctly!I used to contact authors (at least the indies) and politely point out there were some errors and ask if they wanted details to correct, they all very happily accepted but I got to a point where I got fed up doing it for free.
TC wrote: "On the subject of UK vs US spellings, terms and so on, I don't really mind which an author uses as long as they are consistent and use one of them correctly!I used to contact authors (at least th..."
Who said "free"? I said I'd do it for books ... ;-) LOL Although if I have the opportunity, I'm not above pointing some stuff out when I can; I just didn't have an opportunity until recently.
@TC You got it. Be consistent and be correct!!
Hey girls I just played a game of blog tag on my blog!I tagged a few of you:
Annabell
Kat
Kayleigh
Angel
Cassie
Natalie
Check it out and play to:
http://theunlockeddiary.blogspot.com
Ok so while there are millions of blogs out there, I wanna throw my hat in the ring too! However, I am having some issues figuring out how to get it up and running, I created an account on blogger and want to personalize it but it's only giving me the option for their lame templates. I also want to spotlight pics and links of indie books and trailers too. Can someone pleeeaassssee help?!?!?
Well jenn, first off congrats on the new yet to be formed blog! My blog is only a couple weeks old and it was a lot for me to get up. Lol. I am very unsavvy with computers. I also use blogger. About the templates....if u want a prettier one than the few they offer u can download a template to your blog. Just type in "blogger templates" into google and abour 5 million will come up then just search for one u like then download it to your computer. Then go into your dashboard and go to i think the setting tab then u hit "edit html" then u download your template there. Be warned that i had to go through like three templates before i got one that would actually download to my blog. :) but there are tons out there. Then you can go into to the widgets and choose what u want on your page. I put up a follower button and all stuff. I am still learning about that too. The best thing i did for posting was to actually do one and see what it looked like with the preview button. Cause then you can just go back in and hit different things and see what happens when you move it around! Hope this helps and any other questions feel free to ask....i might know the answer but if i dont someone else around here will! :)
I have a test blog on blogger, just for fiddling with the code and seeing what happens before I mess with my real blog. Some of the templates need a lot editing on blogger before they will actually work. That and my fiance is working on an all new template for me so it's a testing ground for that too. :)And OMG I can't believe I missed this conversation on editing when I started it lol. I posted then hid, I'll be honest. Usually when I state my opinion on that it's like let's line Jenn up in front of the firing squad today. It's nice to see I'm not the only one wanting to jump on the soap box about that topic. I have finally found a group of people who get it and it's really really nice to be here :)
Okay I stopped in to get the link to Blogging 101 because I know I signed up for some statistic thing they recommended and I can't for like life of me remember where.
A test blog is a really good idea Jenn! I actually have a wordpress blog by the same name as my blogger one because when I was setting up a blog I couldn't decide which to use....blogger was easier for me so i stuck with it and now i can't figure out how to delete the blog on wordpress. LOLI am glad you found a group of people that can talk about editing with you Jenn. I think this group is good because we all have diverse opinions but in a way we are all in the same world so we still get what each other says....
its a good place to be. :)
Hi there, how happy I am to have stumbled upon this blog rendez-vous! Last night I was just blogging about some interesting material I stumbled upon in researching my current book. I also like to blog about what I'm reading for inspiration, whenever I need a mood boost. Here's mine: www.the-reading-list.com
Hi Leslie I am now following! Your blog looks really great!
Cambria wrote: "My blog: http://theunlockeddiary.blogspot.comIt is pretty basic but it works. :)"
You've got another follower! Your review of Unearthly has intrigued me. Will have to check it out...
My blog is http://www.darksideofthecovers.com and I'm focusing on reviewing steampunk, urban fantasy, and paranormal romance. The blog itself is still so newborn it's mewling...if anybody drops by and has input to offer, I'm quite open. :) I'm also on twitter, @bjdarkside
I'm looking forward to connecting with other bookworms around the world!
I love me a hot wereolf that eats vamps!! I am noe following and I have "liked" your FB page. Your blog Rocks and I love love the quote at the top!! Any girl who like a werewolf is a friend of mine!!And thanks for the follow....Unearthly is totally worth the read!
My most fav book is
and
I am going to be doing a bug review of both those books toward the end of summer and maybe a giveaway because the third book comes out Aug 30 and I CANNOT wait!
So stay tuned.... :)
BJ wrote: "Cambria wrote: "My blog: http://theunlockeddiary.blogspot.comIt is pretty basic but it works. :)"
You've got another follower! Your review of Unearthly has intrigued me. Will have to check it out..."
I'm following you as well BJ. And I love the layout of your blog!
Cambria wrote: "I love me a hot wereolf that eats vamps!! I am noe following and I have "liked" your FB page. Your blog Rocks and I love love the quote at the top!! Any girl who like a werewolf is a friend of mine..."Mmm. Werewolves. It's gotta be that whole inner-beast thing...self control is so damn sexy. :)
JenLR, thanks! I've followed you on google and twitter. :)
Cambria wrote: "I love me a hot wereolf that eats vamps!! I am noe following and I have "liked" your FB page. Your blog Rocks and I love love the quote at the top!! Any girl who like a werewolf is a friend of mine..."I *thought* I just posted a rather witty little response about sexy werewolves. Now I do not see it. So I'm posting again. :D (Which will make me look mildly nuts if they both show up...)
I liked Interwined, but haven't read Unravelled yet. I need to, though...
BJ wrote: "Cambria wrote: "My blog: http://theunlockeddiary.blogspot.comIt is pretty basic but it works. :)"
You've got another follower! Your review of Unearthly has intrigued me. Will have to check it out..."
BJ, your blog is pretty darn cool! Following yaz! "where werewolves eat vampires, the fae have fangs, and clockwork creatures kick zombie ass…" Love it!
You can check mine out at: http://www.nerdalien.com/
~Annabell
BJ, your blog is pretty darn cool! Following yaz! "where werewolves eat vampires, the fae have fangs, and clockwork creatures kick zombie ass…" Love it!You can check mine out at: http://www.nerdalien.com/
~Annabell
Right back at yaz! :) Love your steampunk post, btw!
Leslie wrote: "Hi there, how happy I am to have stumbled upon this blog rendez-vous! Last night I was just blogging about some interesting material I stumbled upon in researching my current book. I also like to..."Leslie, I love your blog! It feels so, I don't know, calming. New follower!
Come check out my blog!
ink-kaja.blogspot.com
Hey all! So I just started my very first blog.
Its all about Indie books, if you could check out, that would be great.
Remember it is my first time so please be gentle ;)
PS. Thanks for the help Cambria!
http://indiesupporter.blogspot.com/
I'm following you Jenn!! Great job! ;-)
Cassie wrote: "I'm following you Jenn!! Great job! ;-)"Yay! My very first follower! I can't thank you enough!!!!!!!!
Creative Reviews
Books mentioned in this topic
The Finkler Question (other topics)The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (The Chronicles of Narnia, #2) (other topics)
Unraveled (other topics)
Intertwined (other topics)
The Superiors (other topics)
I'd love ..."
Hey There Michelle!! I love your blog! You had me at the wolf!! My fav. :) is there a way to follow without going through email?? I usually follow through FB or my google account. I have a igoogle homepage and all the blogs i follow are on it. Makes for easy access. LOL.