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The Count of Monte Cristo: Ch. 26-35
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Silver
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Apr 01, 2011 09:28AM
For discussing chatpers 26-25 in The Count of Monte Cristo, if you have not completed these chapters be aware there may be spoilers here.
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Thanks Marjorie. I'll have to rent that one, I was just debating which version to watch.
It's not a perfect version (they mucked with a few things), but it's certainly a lot closer to the novel than the Cavaziel swashbuckler.
Seems like they always have to muck with things, when will they learn? Maybe I'll watch both for comparison purposes (if I can resist my stack of books long enough for that)
I dunno. Movies have the excuse that the novel is long, and they have 2-3 hours only. Not sure what the excuse was with the mini-series - though they did change or leave out far less (if my memory is serving me).
I was a bit disappointed when Dantes gave the diamond to Caderhousse, I thought he should have given it to Morel, and though he is doing something to help Morel out, I still do not think that Caderhousse deserved the diamond. What do you think of Dumas's message about the way in which the evil prosper, while the good suffer? Though the innocence of Caderhousse is questionable, he is less evil than Dangler's, Fernand and Vilifort. And I think Caderhousse has suffered more of a guilty conscious than they have.
But what is Dumas saying about the world in the way in which those who are guilty were favored by fate and fortune, and those who were good, and honest, have all fallen into ruin.
Perhaps he is testing Caderousse?
I think Dantes gave the diamond to Caderousse because he saw it as a mere trifle, something with no value compared to people's lives, especially after the cruel events that were related and that shocked him (most of all, his father's death). And of course, Morrel's purse he bartered had for him a greater value.Silver wrote: But what is Dumas saying about the world in the way in which those who are guilty were favored by fate and fortune, and those who were good, and honest, have all fallen into ruin."
Up to this point in the novel, it really seems that the guilty prosper. But we still don't know the background stories of Danglars, Villefort and Fernando in detail, so there could be some shadows to their "prosperity", for example, we have just learned that Mercedes didn't love Fernando and theirs was not a happy marriage.
So far Dumas didn't tell anything about God, Fate or Justice, except that while in prison Dantes found and lost his faith. I think the author has not yet given his opinion and will let us, as his characters, see only the events as they unfold. We and them can't say if there is a much greater design, so maybe something of the kind will come up further.
On a total different perspective... I found that Dantes's judgement of Mercedes was too harsh. A man could have found meanings to survive without trouble in the same predicament, but a lonely woman, with no profession and no relatives, who had lived till that day out of "charity", had no many choices. She was desperate, all alone after old Dantes's death, and starving for affection. I guess that if she killed herself out of desperation, Edmond would have been much less sad.
I did enjoy some of the chapters within this group, but did find that there was a lot of drawn out rhetoric that one could really tell this was a serialization designed to have the reader return for a weekly dose. I particularly like Chapter 30 and 35 which seemed again to get to the meat of issue (at least to me) and where again the Count got to become the central figure.
Silver wrote: "I was a bit disappointed when Dantes gave the diamond to Caderhousse, I thought he should have given it to Morel, and though he is doing something to help Morel out, I still do not think that Cader..."I think Dantes knows much about Caderousse, and knows that he is a greedy man. Based on what we know of Dantes, I don't think he would give a very valuable diamond to Caderousse if he (Dantes) didn't see it as a form of revenge on Caderousse for his involvement in his imprisionment. Dantes is not one to give charity to the unworthy, which Caderousse, despite his remorse, is still unworthy. Dantes probably didn't know the extent of the horror the diamond situation would cause, but I think he hoped it would cause havoc in some way if Caderousse was an unchanged person, or would be a great blessing if he was, infact, a changed man.
Silver wrote: "I was a bit disappointed when Dantes gave the diamond to Caderhousse, I thought he should have given it to Morel, and though he is doing something to help Morel out, I still do not think that Cader..."It is almost as if they (the evil ones) have made a pact with the devil. Dantes now seems like a kind of omnipresent spiritual being after emerging after a ten year span as truly the Count. What does everyone think of the references to his being vampire like? I also found it strange that the only pleasure Dantes seems to find is in hallucinations brought on by drugs. Dantes says that drugs cause "the boundaries of possibilities to disappear."
I think that everyone has made some good points. I particuarly like the idea that Dantes gave Caderousse the diamond out of an act of spite more so than an act of charity. And in thinking about the character of Caderousse I can see the way in which the diamond may truly act as bringing more misery in his life than acutally granting him prosperity. Because of his greed and his cowardice, it is true that he probably will not use the new found wealth to improve his life and do good and will not likely find actual happiness in it. Instead of being grateful for the chance, he will likely squander it and simply end up wishing he had more. He may even end up blowing it all and fall back into poverty with the memory of his lost fortune. testina wrote: So far Dumas didn't tell anything about God, Fate or Justice, except that while in prison Dantes found and lost his faith. I think the author has not yet given his opinion and will let us, as his characters, see only the events as they unfold.
Caderousse speaks of God and fate to Dantes "the Priest" when he talks of the way in which Dangerls and the others who were the most guilty and the most evil in thier actions and plotting prosper, while himself in his opinion "an honest man" has fallen into poverty and also the way in which the truly good Morrel has become impoverished.
It is true that we have not really seen the stories about Dangerls, Villefort and Feranand and so while it seems through what Caderousse has said they have all gotten what they want in life, and are fortunate, we may discover that there is something of an ominous cloud hanging over thier fortunes and perhaps things will not turn out to be as they first appeared.
Marialyce wrote: What does everyone think of the references to his being vampire like? I also found it strange that the only pleasure Dantes seems to find is in hallucinations brought on by drugs. Dantes says that drugs cause "the boundaries of possibilities to disappear."
I am not sure if I see Dantes has being "vampire" like per sae, though the idea of him being "The Count" is an interesting one, and there are some parallels that can be made, in the way in which he does live, or at least retreat to this cave which can be seen as akin to a coffin, and has all this wealth, and symbolically he has come back from the dead. I never thought of it in that way before but on reflection it is an interesting thought.
I did find the Sinbad the Sailor story to be a rather odd and interesting one. In taking up that fabaled name, and creating that strange mysterious paradise, with the drugs and hallucinations, it does make him seem as something of an ethereal being, and the way in which he travels around secretly gaining knowledge through his many different disguises makes him have this all knowing quality to him.
Though I am not quite sure what to make of that chapter within the book, and what it adds to the overall story, and in that whole episode with Franz, what is Dumas trying to convey to the reader, and was that chapter added in in part as a way to stretch out the story longer, in considering what has been said earlier about his being paid by the word. Presently I cannot see how that will fit into the rest of the story or enhance it, but perhaps something in it will be revealed as I continue to read.
I agree, Silver. I, too, am not sure where this chapter were going as to their overall contribution to the story. I was also intrigued by the often mentioned pale skin, another vampire type reference. Are we to assume tat the Count does not travel in daylight, or that he is infrequently outside? Do all his snares for those who wronged him take place in the night? The whole thing has taken on a sinister tone as I wonder if the planning for revenge has colored the Count's character for the worse.
Marialyce wrote: "I agree, Silver. I, too, am not sure where this chapter were going as to their overall contribution to the story. I was also intrigued by the often mentioned pale skin, another vampire type referen..."The pale skin reference was an interesting one. At first I thought it was just because of his being in the cave, but than unless it is true that he never comes out at night he would not necessarily be pale, but he had spent a considerable long time locked away from any sunlight.
The idea of him only traveling around at night does have a very sinister tone to it. On the one hand one cannot truly feel sorry for Danglers, Fernand, and Villefort, and does want to see them pay for what they have done, and Dantes is naturally sympathetic in the suffering he endured at their hands. You cannot altogether blame him for his vengeance, and it is hard not to root for him, but on the other hand considering the sneakiness of his vengeance. Disguising himself, and the vampire like allusions around him, it does not really paint the picture of Dantes as being truly this figure standing for justice, but it puts a darker slant on his own actions.
I also find it curious that we are now being told the story of a bandit called Vampa, in which people are afraid to venture outside at night because of his legend.
I just finished chapters 34 and 35 and I can really see what you mean about the vampire references now which are made quite distinct within these chapters. There are certainly lots of imagery within these chapters that seem to be direct allusions to the story of Dracula. During the scene in which Franz and Albert are having lunch with Dantes, and it is mentioned how Dantes himself does not touch his food, if I recall there was a scene like that within Dracula as well in which Jonathan Harker was dining with Count Dracula, and he makes a note as to Dracula not actually eating anything while he eats.
And than the description of him while watching the execution, and how color seemed to rise in the cheeks of Dantes at the sight of the blood.
I also found it interesting that his teeth were compared to being like the teeth of a jackal, because jackal's are animals that are associated with death. They are scavengers who feed upon corpses, and Anubis is the jackal-headed god, who is associated with dealing with the dead. And I believe Anubis is one of the figures present when the soles of the dead are weighed to judge their virtue.
I think jackals have also been associated with Satan as well.
Dumas is making a great deal of the paleness of Dantes....as though the imprisonment has made an indelible mark on him; emphasising a physical counterpart for the moral and spiritual difference. It's like the incident back in chapter 21 (yes I know we've passed beyond that but it seems linked!) where he had his hair cut and looked almost aghast into the mirror at his eyes which now seemed melancholy and exhibited 'gloomy fires of misanthropy and hatred'. But to get back to the chapters in question. The description of the execution, and its opportunity for the discussion of death and revenge that it offers Dantes and Dumas, is suitably dramatic and shocking. The two young witnesses are seemingly quite affected by the sight. Hard to think of execution as a great spectator sport, but still, other times, other customs I suppose.
What I did want to say about this section concerns narrative technique rather than character though. I found it much harder going than the earlier parts of the book (not just because we have left the drama of capture and imprisonment behind, I'm sure). I enjoyed the sections where the story was told from Dantes' perspective; the narrative had a drive to it, there was a shape and form to the story.
The imagination is almost film-like as we see Dantes' bringing the ship to harbour with so much skill in chapter 1, and then the whole novel is centred round him, even though we switch scenes to Villefort and Danglars.
But the perspective seems to have shifted. Dantes, Sinbad, the Count, seems to be a character in someone else's story now, and I'm not so enthralled by the story of two pretty undistinguished young men that we are currently involved in. Recalling some of the early comments about Dumas being paid by the word, I have found myself thinking 'padding' at some of the episodes.
But enough of such misanthropy....actually, I still want to know what Dantes is going to do.....how he 'rewards' the villains who betrayed him; if he is corrupted by his own quest for revenge, or even consumed by it; and how Dumas fills another 700 pages with the revelations! That all keeps drawing me back to the reading.
Stephen wrote: "Dumas is making a great deal of the paleness of Dantes....as though the imprisonment has made an indelible mark on him; emphasising a physical counterpart for the moral and spiritual difference. It..."I really liked that scene as well, in which he is seeing the change of his visage as he looks within the mirror, and well seeing himself for the first time since he has been imprisoned. I do think that the sort of transformation "rebirth" of Dantes is quite an interesting part of this story.
It is rather symbolic how he does emerge both from the darkness of his dungeon, only to be plunged into the water which can be seen as almost "womb" like I think, as well I think it can be linked to a journey to the "otherworld" and he arises from this as a transformed man, not just in his appearance, but he has shed away that naivety or goodness with his youth.
It is also interesting how it seems he has gone through this symbolic, death-like journey to reemerge as seemingly being something that is indeed not quite human or more than human. He has become this "Vampire" or this "avenging angel" He is figures of myth in the associations of "The Arabian Nights" which seem to surround him.
I myself was less than enthralled with the story of Franc and Albert, and I do wonder just who or if this whole adventure of theirs is going to connect to the rest of the story, or if this section is just intended to paint for the reader a picture of Dantes, or if this section is just going to be filler as a way for Dumas to extend the story longer.
I love Dantes relationship with Monsieur Morrel (another father/son relationship?) Morrel thought highly of Dantes and offered him the captain position. After his arrest, it is he who tried to get Dantes his freedom. But now it is Morrel who has fallen on hard times. It is Dantes turn to help his dear friend out. In the midst of all his financial tragedy and losing his last ship- the Pharaon, Morrel displays his character when he learns that the crew was safe, "Morrel raised both hands heavenwards with a sublime look of resignation and gratitude." Dante, unnoticed in the corner, views the loyalty of his crew and the love of his family, and puts his plan into place to save his beloved friend. I have to say I was completely engrossed in the book when Morrel put the gun in his mouth and thank God his daughter cried out you are saved!
Regarding Calderousse, I think that Dantes was giving him the opportunity to confess his wrongdoing by not coming forward with the truth after Dantes was arrested. But Calderousse gives into his greed. Dantes gets the information about the others that he needs, as well as gets Monsieur Morrel red sack.
Why does the author constantly make references to vampires? Just an idea . . . In 1819, John William Polidori published (in New Monthly Magazine and Universal Register), "The Vampyre" inspired by the life and legend of Lord Byron. It was hot and began a vampire craze for this type of genre. Could it be that when Dumas published this book 25 years later (from 8/28/1844 to 1/15/1846) in a similar format, that knowing that this genre was very popular, Dumas decided to incorporate vampire references to Dantes?
Carol wrote-- "In 1819, John William Polidori published (in New Monthly Magazine and Universal Register), "The Vampyre" inspired by the life and legend of Lord Byron."John Polidori was the older brother of Frances Polidori Rossetti, the mother of Dante Gabriel Rossetti (one of the founders of the Pre-Rapahelite Movement) and the great Victorian poet, Christina Rossetti. Their uncle, John Polidori was Byron's secretary, and was present at Lake Geneva when Byron wrote The Prisoner of Chillon and Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein. He committed suicide, by ingesting poison, in 1820 because of gambling debts. Literary connections fascinate me supremely.
Thanks Christopher, I wasn't aware of the connections. I'm new to Victorian novels and am enjoying this read.
Silver wrote: "During the scene in which Franz and Albert are having lunch with Dantes, and it is mentioned how Dantes himself does not touch his food, if I recall there was a scene like that within Dracula as well in which Jonathan Harker was dining with Count Dracula, and he makes a note as to Dracula not actually eating anything while he eats."I wasn't focused at all on the vampire references - yet another reason I'm glad I discovered this reading group. I had interpreted the Count's avoidance of eating with his guests in relation to the "Sinbad the Sailor" moniker and the whole Arabian nights motif. As I recall, in the Arabian Nights stories it frequently comes up that you are not supposed to break bread with anyone whom you intend to kill. At least, that's how I remember the tales 40-50 years later.
Bob wrote: As I recall, in the Arabian Nights stories it frequently comes up that you are not supposed to break bread with anyone whom you intend to kill. At least, that's how I remember the tales 40-50 years later..."Though I haven't read the Arabian Nights, now that you mention that tradidtion sounds somewhat familair. I think I may have come across something similair to it before in something else I have read, or perhaps in a movie.
The Hindus were not allowed to eat with the unclean (meaning us). I am not sure that this tradition still holds true however.
The theme of revenge which a number have referred to is interesting me. There is the debate - or at least the opportunity for Dantes/Count to put his view - at the execution in which he urges suitably lurid punishments for horrific crimes. I'm not taking a view on this by commenting on it here (though of course I do have a view!). But it seems to be preparing some ground; and opening up narrative possibilities of revenge. And I just know that if the revenge is as horrific as Dantes is now suggesting he would like to make it, part of me will be cheering as I recoil. And maybe that is the question Dumas is posing.
Im speculating, of course.
Like Stephen, I was wondering where Dantes was going with the whole discussion about just punishments. It sounds like he plans to plot a terrible, lengthy vendetta against the three men who were responsible for his imprisonment. Given that Mercedes is married now for a long time, I don't see how Dantes can seek revenge against Ferdinand without hurting Mercedes and her children. It will be interesting to see how this unravels.
He is out for blood for sure with those who have wronged him. He is such a changed man from when we first met him. Does anyone feel that he is turning evil himself?
Dantes is definitely losing his innocence. He seems to have a "Robin Hood" like character where he supposedly helps those in need.
Dantes years of imprisionment and the years after certainly have changed him, and I would say, not for the better. He is vengeful and bordering on cruel. Perhaps Dumas is commenting on how seeking revenge can lead us to become very much like our persecuters: cold, calculating, and ruthless?
I'm hopeful Dumas will bring this full circle because it doesn't seem like Dantes is going down a good path at the moment!
I feel the many illusions to vampirism sets the stage for more evil doings.Vampa, a real villain type has such a close association with Dantes. His name, plus his coming out at night, also has that vampire feel to it.
I do feel that there has been a lot of "fillers" to the story particularly in this section. I, too, wonder where the new characters will go with the story. I did like that Mercedes did recognize Dantes and that in all her actions has let us know that she has never stopped loving him or has ever forgotten.
Stephen wrote: "Dumas is making a great deal of the paleness of Dantes....as though the imprisonment has made an indelible mark on him; emphasising a physical counterpart for the moral and spiritual difference. It..."Stephen I agree with all of what you've said and appreciate the insight....after those last two chapters...I'm a bit dismayed....I find the Dantes/Count/Sinbad hard to follow and find my mind wandering....I guess I will continue on...but 700 more pages...yikes...I hope the story gets back to being a bit easier to focus on and follow.
Marialyce wrote: "I feel the many illusions to vampirism sets the stage for more evil doings.Vampa, a real villain type has such a close association with Dantes. His name, plus his coming out at night, also has th..."
I've never thought of these connotation before and this is a wonderful discussion. I'm not taking part in it but I've been checking through the thread since they started. This is one of my favourite classics. Something about the character Dantes: I don't think he has a center. Him possesses so many identities suggests that he lacks a true center/identity for the time being. He lost his innocence too early and in the worst manner he changed from Blake's "The Lamb" to "The Tyger" too quickly.
I think most of you are already aware of the fact that Dumas based this novel on a true story. I'm going to add it as spoilers because the plot is so similar to the one in the novel.
(view spoiler)
