The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion
This topic is about
Jude the Obscure
Thomas Hardy Collection
>
Jude the Obscure: Week 2 - Part Second
message 51:
by
MadgeUK
(new)
Mar 30, 2011 12:17PM
I don't think he could have been all that drunk if he recited The Apostles Creed in Latin! :) Brits have always been a pub going lot so Jude is conforming to the norm. The Temperance Movement was in full swing in Hardy's time so maybe he will introduce something about that later.
reply
|
flag
Mod
LOL! Too funny, Madge! I can remember at one point as a young fellow when I struggled reciting it sober...
message 53:
by
Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.), Founder
(last edited Mar 30, 2011 02:21PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
"a species of Dick Whittington whose spirit was touched to finer issues than a mere material gain"I've not googled this, and just wondered if someone can shed some light on this 'Dick Whittington' comparison for me.
Christopher wrote: "Probably a stupid question (I'm good for a couple of these with every group-read discussion;-), but very early in Chapter One of "Part Second" Jude is described as"a species of Dick Whittington who..."Haha well I never heard of it either, so I did decdie to google it, and it is a folktale from the 15th century
http://www.longlongtimeago.com/llta_f...
The legend of Dick Whittington was appenretly based off of an actual person
http://london.allinfo-about.com/featu...
I'm apparently more inclined to remember trivialities like things I memorized, including one passage in Hebrew, when drunk than things that actually matter like names or self-censorship.
Mod
I have to think that the notion of ghosts somehow was at the same time comforting and maybe disquieting to Hardy. I don't quite know how to explain it, but I know that family was important to him, and that the whole concept of death clearly intrigued him. I think that Hardy was taken with the notion that the 'spirits' of the deceased were somehow aware of what was going around them after their passing. In his poetry, there are plenty of examples of very tender, and some quite macabre, moments where Hardy, or his poem's protagonist, basically have encounters with spirits.
As Jude is first prowling about the dark streets of Christminster, and he actually becomes aware of himself as a sort of "self-spectre"--
"He drew his breath pensively, and, seeming thus almost his own ghost, gave his thoughts to the other ghostly presences with which the nooks were haunted.What an interesting bit Hardy portrays there. And then again in just a few more sentences, Hardy chills the reader with--
"The brushings of the wind against the angles, buttresses, and door-jambs were as the passing of these only other inhabitants, the tappings of each ivy leaf on its neighbour were as the mutterings of their mournful souls, the shadows as their thin shapes in nervous movement, making him comrades in his solitude. In the gloom it was as if he ran against them without feeling their bodily frames."I'll tell you that on reading this, at least for me, I get the sense already that Christminster may not end up being the 'end-all' for poor Jude; and, in fact, this seems to be a quite bleak and foreboding experience for him.
I also thought it quite profound when Jude had the revelation that the cathedral restoration stone-mason work--
"...was a centre of effort as worthy as that dignified by the name of scholarly study with the noblest of the colleges."But Jude immediately rejects the notion for the ideal that carried him to Christminster in the first place. He will use the work only to further his goal of getting into school.
"Jude the Obscure"--
"He was a young workman in a white blouse, and with stone-dust in the creases of his clothes; and in passing him they not even see him, or hear him, rather saw through him as through a pane of glass at their familiars beyond. Whatever they were to him, he to them was not on the spot at all; and yet he had fancied he would be close to their lives by coming there."Jude really is obscure, isn't he?
After having read pretty much everything Hardy has written, another thing that really jumped out at me was how Hardy's male protagonists upon first meeting their female counterparts tend to put them on a very lofty pedestal. When Jude first spies Sue working away in the Christian warehouse, he thinks to himself--
'A sweet, saintly, Christian business, hers!'I can think of Clem Yeobrough's initial reaction to Eustacia Vye; or Gabriel Oak's first impression of Bathsheba Everdene. Of course, Alex d'Urberville's reaction to Tess is not like this, but Angel Clare's certainly is. Just an interesting observation though; and perhaps it illustrates something that men do even subconsciously--i.e., the whole "Madonna-Whore" thing.
In Chapter Three, I just loved Sue buying the 'pagan' statues, wrapping them in 'leaves' and sneaking them into the Christian city and her Christian house! Loaded with irony!
Did any of you discuss Sue's reading of Swinburne's "Hymn to Proserpine" whilst glancing at the statuary she's purchased? While not one of my favorite Victorian poets, I have always been interested in him as he ran with the Pre-Raphaelite crowd (e.g., especially the Rossettis, Dante Gabriel and Christina). To me, the implication of that quotation reinforces Sue's attraction to her pagan statuary, i.e., she doesn't give a fig for the organized religion of the Christian faith. So, what does Hardy want us to think about Sue working in the Christian warehouse, and living in the Christian boarding house? In my opinion, that line from Swinburne is a bleak assessment of Christianity--
"Thou hast conquered, O pale Galilean: The world has grown grey from thy breath!"If you're interested in reading the entire poem by Swinburne, "Hymn to Proserpine" you can find it here http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/s...
Jude's receipt of the letter from the Master at the College was about as devastating as could be for the poor fellow, and his chalked scribing on the wall the quote from Job--
"I have understanding as well as you; I am not inferior to you: yea, who knoweth not such things as these?"was very moving to read. Jude, himself, sums it all up at the start of Chapter Seven
"He saw himself as a fool indeed."
Bill wrote: According to the narrative, he has only done it when he got really down. Which may explain both why he stays away from the pub at other times, as well as how important the second clause of that last sentence in part 2 really is:..."I do not think that drinking only when he is down constitutes alcoholism, now there is the chance that his drinking may grow worse as his problems grow worse, but Jude seems quite capable of not drinking when he is not depressed, and while alcoholism may be induced or worsened by feelings of despair, generally with alcoholics there is no ability to control ones drinking, and it does become a habit of every day life. Jude seems only to turn to it in moments of extremes in his life.
Mod
What makes Hardy so interesting and important to me is the ability to read, re-read, and re-read again, and continue to turn up new and fascinating points to ponder and discuss.
Bill wrote: "Silver wrote: "I do not think that drinking only when he is down constitutes alcoholism..."Of course it doesn't constitute alcoholism, Silver.
I really hope I wasn't understood to have said such..."
It seems to suggest that Jude believes he could avoid drinking altogether if in fact he thought there was some spark of goodness in his life, if he had any hope either in the possibility of having comfort from Sue, or of achieving his desire for education.
As you have already mentioned, it does not seem based on what is within the text that Jude is a regular/casual drinker, and I do not think he likes his bouts of drinking, I think turning to drink is a source of shame for him, but it does serve as a mode of escape from his life when he feels there is nothing for him to look forward to.
I also find it interesting that it seems to be that Arabaella was the one whom first introduced him to alcohol, I do not believe he had ever drank before the first time in which she had taken him to the pub during their dating, so I wonder, if Arabella had not first exposed him to drink, would he had ever thought to turn to it on his own.
Silver wrote: "Christopher wrote: "Probably a stupid question (I'm good for a couple of these with every group-read discussion;-), but very early in Chapter One of "Part Second" Jude is described as"a species of ..."I did mention our Dick Whittington in my introductory post folks and had warned Bill that Jude might 'turn and turn again'!
Great post Chris - you raise some interesting points, one of which was Hardy's interest in ghosts:-The Victorians were very interested in ghosts and there were a lot of investigations done into 'appearances' in Hardy's time. Hardy went to seances and lectures about such things, which fascinated him. In an interview late in his life he said 'when I was a younger man, I would cheerfully have given ten years of my life to see a ghost – an authentic, indubitable spectre.' When asked if he had seen a ghost he said:
'Never the ghost of a ghost. Yet I should think I am cut out by nature for a ghost-seer. My nerves vibrate very readily; people say I am almost morbidly imaginative; my will to believe is perfect. If ever ghost wanted to manifest himself, I am the very man he should apply to. But no – the spirits don’t seem to see it!'
The phrase you quote 'He was a young workman in a white blouse, and with stone-dust in the creases of his clothes; and in passing him they not even see him...' reminded me of our earlier conversation about moving from a hamlet to a town. In Marygreen Jude would have been a solid (stonelike) figure known by everyone but in Christminster he floated like a ghost, unknown to anyone, yes, 'obscure'.
Perhaps we should be on the lookout for more about ghosts and spirits in Jude.
You also mention Swinburne in relation to the pre-Raphaelites Chris and they, of course, introduced the genre called 'fairy painting', another Victorian fascination with the supernatural, as illustrated in Ferdinand Lured by Ariel by Millais:-
http://www.abcgallery.com/M/millais/m...
http://www.netplaces.com/ghost-huntin...
message 62:
by
Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.), Founder
(last edited Mar 30, 2011 07:51PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Also, I think the reference to Swinburne, Millais, and the pre-Raphaelites was fascinating; and I have to believe that Hardy was incredibly familiar with their poetry, works of art, and the supernatural. As "Jude" was written late in the Victorian, to me it seems certain that Hardy must have mined nuggets from that movement. Just as we shall soon see that he had quite an infatuation and interest in the poetry of the second generation English Romantic poets.
Wonderful links too! I especially love the Millais painting, "Ferdinand Lured by Ariel". Boy, does that keep in the theme of ghosts. I just love it when we find these links and connections as we are reading these wonderful novels! What I mean to say is that it completely makes sense to me now, after you've pointed these things out; but without all of you, many times I would not make these connections. Discovering all of these not only enriches my overall reading experience now, but makes me an even more careful reader as I try and find these kinds of linkages and connections in future books that I read.
Mod
You know, Madge, I do remember that come to think of it. I think that's why when I read it on the plane the other day to Tucson it jumped out at me. What an intriguing little folk tale. I think it amazing too, that Mayor Dick Whittington actually managed to survive the changing of a monarch too. You know, "Off with his head!" and all of that business!
Mod
"
Oh, there is such a wonderful story about that particular painting too, Bill. Dante Gabriel Rossetti's girlfriend (and artistic muse), Elizabeth "Lizzie" Siddal (later his wife), was Millais' model for the painting. Millais had her reclined in a tub of water that he tried to keep warm with candles heating the bottom of the cast-iron tub. It was winter time, and apparently it didn't keep her warm at all, and the poor woman caught nearly her death of a cold. Lizzie's father tried to get compensation from Millais for her medical bills.
Here's a great little biographical bit from Wikipedia about Lizzie Siddel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabet...
Chris wrote: 'I have to believe that Hardy was incredibly familiar with their poetry, works of art, and the supernatural.'Yes, they would have been 'all the rage' when he was writing Jude. Lizzie Siddel's is a tragic story - very Hardy-like:(.
Ophelia is an appropriate image here Bill, very ethereal, like Sue. Sue is described somewhere in Jude as 'phantasmal, bodiless' and as 'a sort of fay or sprite'. (Fay is another word for fairy.)
Chris wrote: 'Discovering all of these not only enriches my overall reading experience now, but makes me an even more careful reader as I try and find these kinds of linkages and connections in future books that I read.'Yes, I always read with such images and ideas in my mind, learned from earlier reading, and the Victorian era is such a rich period if you bother to delve into it. The authors themselves delved into history too, as the copious Notes at the ends of their novels often show.
We may stray Bill but we always get back to the straight and narrow:). (Well, nearly always:D)Love the quote, perhaps Millais had it in mind too.
What does everyone think about Jude's request that Sue meet him at Martyrs Corner, or whatever it was called, and her subsequently calling across the street that she would not meet him there for the first time in her life? What did it seem their opinions of those men were? It seems Sue at least had some.
On looking back, I was confusing it with somewhere else where Thomas Cranmer was mentioned.
Here is a photo and some info about the Martyr's Memorial in Oxford which Hardy was referencing. Note that it is also a landmark of the Oxford Movement, which I have mentioned earlier:-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs&...
Is Jude a martyr to his cause, given that he has been unable to embark upon the university education he so desired? Saint Jude, supposedly the first cousin of Jesus, was a martyr too and the Catholic church calls him 'obscure' (his manner of death is unknown) and he is the Patron Saint of the Impossible:-
http://www.penitents.org/sisco_Simon_...
Sue is portrayed as a virgin like figure, devoid of sexual desire and in this she conforms to the Victorian ideal of chaste womanhood. Is she another kind of martyr? In his 1912 Preface to Jude Hardy mentions that a German reviewer had reviewer had described Sue Bridehead as 'the first delineation in fiction of. . . the woman of the feminist movement - the slight, pale "bachelor" girl - the intellectual- ized, emancipated bundle of nerves that modern conditions were producing... '.
I doubt this is true but she does seem to be a precursor of 'the New Woman'. Hardy had correspondence with several high profile contemporary figures working to better the role of women, like Millicent Fawcett and Grant Allen who wrote a great deal about The Woman Question. So it may be that he saw in Sue a martyr to the cause of The New Woman. He wrote to his friend Florence Henniker that 'Sue Bridehead and marriage are the very impulse of he novel, not an afterthought.' These were big questions in the 1890s and, of course, women today are the beneficiaries of the fights which were going on then.
Background: I have just found rather a nice website with photos of various scenes from Jude and other Hardy novels which I have put in the Background folder.I have also posted some relevant poems in Poem for the Month.
I was re-reading some pages bearing in mind your comments and I have a maybe silly question. In the scene when Jude sees Sue the first time in the church, it says "Jude sat watching her pretty shoulders, her easy, curiously nonchalant risings and sittings, and her perfunctory genuflexions, and thought what a help such an Anglican would have been to him in happier circumstances."What does it mean? Is it another example of Hardy's irony? Does Jude think of her as a faithful worshipper while he fails to see the perfunctoriness in her gestures during the rite?
I think he is contrasting Sue with Arabella who was not a churchgoer and who was more 'earthy', less graceful than Sue. As yet I do not think Jude sees Sue's more pagan nature, her perfunctoriness.
Mod
And then contrast this ideal with Jude's current desire to become a minister too. Personally, I think this is another illustration of Jude's inherent naivete.
Christopher wrote: "I think Madge is absolutely correct here. Jude still has this idealized vision of whom he believes Sue Bridehead to be. [Sidenote--Don't you just love the name Hardy gave Sue? "Bridehead"]And th..."
Jude seems to repeatedly think his life will be better or he will be happy if he does X thing. I wonder if he will ever learn better.
testina_blu wrote: "thought what a help such an Anglican would have been to him in happier circumstances."What does it mean? Is it another example of Hardy's irony? Does Jude think of her as a faithful worshipper while he fails to see the perfunctoriness in her gestures during the rite? ."
I think he is thinking back to before Arabella, when he had dreams of being a clergyman, and thinking that if he had met Sue first she would have supported him along this path rather than, as Arabella did, diverting him from it.
That's a very good point Everyman! Can you refer us to the chapter you are thinking of?
Mod
I haven't read all of this post, so if I put my foot into it, please forgive me. During the Victorian age, spiritualism was coming into fashion. People were really trying to connect with ghosts and understand possible other worlds. So much so, in fact, that many Victorians (including Dickens) became fearful of the dark. Just a little trivia I picked up along the way. Not sure where though I believe it was a PBS special on Dickens.
Yes, we had mentioned spiritualism Deborah but not that nice little point about Victorians being fearful of the dark. It must have been very worrying for them when streets were so badly lit, or not lit at all(:. Do you remember too folks, that Dostoevsky was complaining about spiritualism in Russia when he was writing Brothers K so it was a European obsession, not just a British one (probably an American one too). Post-Darwin a lot of pseudo-sciences sprang up which dabbled in the supernatural, formerly the preserve of the church.
It was American as well.
Oh sorry Bill - the online book I was quoting from doesn't have Part Nos and is sometimes confusing. I will delete and repost later since I spent a lot of time on it. Thanks!
Mod
Deb, I am sure that I have mentioned this somewhere, and maybe here in the "Jude" background resources, but A.S. Byatt wrote a fascinating novella that explores just the themes you referenced. It is in a volume entitled, Angels & Insects, and is a wonderfully quasi-spooky tale about seances, romance, Victorian poetry, and directly plays off of Alfred Lord Tennyson's close relationship with his best friend, the late Arthur Henry Hallam. Hallam died of a cerebral hemorrhage at the age of 22. As I recall, Hallam was intending to marry Tennyson's sister, Emily. Anyway, Byatt's tale, "The Conjugial Angel", is a good one. It is combined with the Byatt's other novella, "Morpho Eugenia" which is also a shockingly surprising story. I highly recommend both!
Mod
I just ran across this posting again, and I meant to respond to it earlier, Denae. First, my apologies for my tardiness. Secondly, I think this is another illustration of Sue's discomfort--almost a preternatural discomfort--of all things 'organized religion'. In Sue's words,
"What I meant was that the place you chose was so horrid,--I mean gloomy and inauspicious in its associations..."This speaks volumes to me about where Sue is coming from with respect to organized religion. The operative word being "organized".
Christopher wrote: "Denae wrote-- "What does everyone think about Jude's request that Sue meet him at Martyrs Corner, or whatever it was called, and her subsequently calling across the street that she would not meet ..."So it seems like a discomfort with all organized religion or a specific discomfort with that particular aspect, namely the rampant murder of people for "heresy" in the Tudor era? (Other eras too, of course, but this happened in the Tudor era.)
Christopher wrote: A.S. Byatt wrote a fascinating novella that explores just the themes you referenced.Yes Angels & Insects is a good book to recommend with respect to the Victorian fasination with the supernatural. A S Byatt is a modern author who constantly references historical themes and people. She is a good example of the advantages of reading Introductions and background material because a lot of the time you would miss what she is getting at if you don't, or find what she writes far less comprehensible. The Children's Book, for instance, is chock full of references to the actual lives of the Bloomsbury set, including a notorious paedophile, which you would entirely miss if you hadn't done some delving beforehand.
Chris wrote: So it seems like a discomfort with all organized religion...I think with the Oxford movement Chris. Sue laughs at Jude's admiration for the leading lights of that organisation:-
"Why must you leave Christminster?" he said regretfully. "How can you do otherwise than cling to a city in whose history such men as Newman, Pusey, Ward, Keble, loom so large!"
"Yes--they do. Though how large do they loom in the history of the world? ... What a funny reason for caring to stay! I should never have thought of it!" She laughed.
Jude's comment about the landlady vandalising Sue's pagan ornaments is also such a reference: "Too Catholic-Apostolic for her, I suppose? No doubt she called them popish images and talked of the invocation of saints."
The Church of England at this time was in the throes of a split because Newman, Pusey and others were trying to lead it back to pre-Reformation catholicism. The 'low church' CofE people and the non-conformists (Methodists, Baptists etc) regarded the images displayed in catholic churches as pagan. Here I think we are seeing Hardy liken the Oxford Movement to gothic revivalism and the CofE to earlier, plainer ways. (cf Chapter 1 where 'a tall new building of modern Gothic design, unfamiliar to English eyes' had replaced the original church, 'hump-backed, wood-turreted, and quaintly hipped'.)
There is another gothic reference in Chapter 4:-
'..and they went along up a hill, and through some prettily wooded country. Presently the embattled tower and square turret of the church rose into the sky, and then the school-house. Phillotson is 'thin and careworn' with 'a slightly stooping habit', and he wears an old-fashioned 'black frock coat' - a very gothic description. This, I think, signifies some 'gloom' to come. And it again highlights the difference between the old church with its square Norman turret and the gleaming spires of revivalist Oxford/Christminster. Jude it seems is embracing romance of the Oxford Movement (as Hardy briefly did) while Phillotson is still immersed in the old CofE ways. Sue, of course, is outside of both.
Everyman wrote: "I think he is thinking back to before Arabella, when he had dreams of being a clergyman, and thinking that if he had met Sue first she would have supported him along this path rather than, as Arabella did, diverting him from it."Madge, Chris, Everyman: thank you for your answers, it's more clear now!
Mod
Deb, I am sure that I have mentioned this somewhere, and maybe here in the "Jude" background resources, but A.S. Byatt wrote a fascinating novella that explores just the ..."
Thanks Chris. I'll add them to my list. A book by Sarah Waters called Affinity talks about spiritualism in that time period as well. It's a quirky but fun read.
Everyman wrote: "...So for Hardy's purposes, I don't think Apollo is included because of any connection with love per se, but because he was the personification of young manly beauty."Seemed to me a surprisingly strong image, especially alongside Venus, of the type of love Hardy was not afraid to confront, but which Victorian conventions required him to do obliquely!
Christopher wrote: "What an interesting bit Hardy portrays there. And then again in just a few more sentences, Hardy chills the reader with--'The brushings of the wind against the angles, buttresses, and door-jambs were as the passing of these only other inhabitants, the tappings of each ivy leaf on its neighbour were as the mutterings of their mournful souls, the shadows as their thin shapes in nervous movement, making him comrades in his solitude. In the gloom it was as if he ran against them without feeling their bodily frames.'"
One of the really neat things about these discussions is how differently each of us sometimes reacts to the same passage. Rather than a chill of fear or foreboding here, I had a sense of excitement, of passion, on Jude's part, as if almost an expectant oneness of the present (and his future) with the past.
I know my reaction was colored by just having finished Margaret Drabble's The Red Queen, where even the modern Dr. Babs Halliwell is attended by sprites concerned for her well-being. Drabble's treatment of modern spirits and their presence in our lives (at least our imaginations) was one of the most convincing I have yet encountered in literature -- not as heavy handed as in Allende, Márquez and the Latin American traditions, but more in line with my own sometimes sense of awareness of those who have gone before or who seemingly protect (or, less frequently, to menace) without evidence of corporeal existence.
My edition has the following note about Hardy and Newman:"The man whose mind contracted could be John Henry Newman, who famously converted to Catholicism in 1845; 'Hardy's attitude is so completely opposed to that of Newman, that the novelist does not even seem to have been able to comprehend his adversary's position' (Timothy Hands, Thomas Hardy: Distracted Preacher? [New York: St. Martin's Press, 1989], p. 97).
Sir Robert Peel (1788-1850), "the Corn Law convert," was, like Dick Whittington, a character that attracted my curiosity."...a British Conservative statesman who served as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 10 December 1834 to 8 April 1835, and again from 30 August 1841 to 29 June 1846. Peel, whilst Home Secretary, helped create the modern concept of the police force, leading to officers being known as "bobbies" (in England) and "Peelers" (in Ireland) to this day. Whilst Prime Minister, Peel repealed the Corn Laws and issued the Tamworth Manifesto, leading to the formation of the Conservative Party out of the shattered Tory Party."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Peel
"The Corn Laws were import tariffs designed to protect corn (grain) prices in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland against competition from less expensive foreign imports between 1815 and 1846. ...their abolition marked a significant step towards free trade. The Corn Laws [had] enhanced the profits and political power associated with land ownership.
"In Britain, the word corn was a generic term for cereal crops such as wheat, oats and barley."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_Laws
Mod
I couldn't agree more! And I absolutely see your point with respect to your interpretation of this particular passage too. I am going to go back and revisit that entire scene again for myself.
Christopher wrote: "...I am going to go back and revisit that entire scene..."And you heightened my awareness of words like those I bold below:
"The brushings of the wind against the angles, buttresses, and door-jambs were as the passing of these only other inhabitants, the tappings of each ivy leaf on its neighbour were as the mutterings of their mournful souls, the shadows as their thin shapes in nervous movement, making him comrades in his solitude. In the gloom it was as if he ran against them without feeling their bodily frames.
I was also impacted in reading this scene by the lighting used in the new release of the Jane Eyre film, which seems to try to create a sense of a world before electricity was available.
(You apparently framed your comments just as I was slightly editing my original post. No major change in meaning, however.)
message 95:
by
Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.), Founder
(last edited Apr 05, 2011 02:34PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
First, did you like this new Jane Eyre adaptation? I haven't seen it yet, but I'm chomping at the bit to see it. I have heard very good things about it from those who've seen it here locally too.
Finally, you bring up an interesting point about Hardy's use of those words. Whether it is the sound of wind through the heather and swales of the Egdon Heath (The Return of the Native), the moaning of the breeze through the freshly planted pine seedlings (The Woodlanders), or the sounds of the raging storm late at night in Two on a Tower, Hardy seems so incredibly adept at melding the sounds of the landscape with the feelings and emotions of his characters. That connectiveness, or tissue, that binds his characters to the landscape, and in the case of Jude in Christminster to the cityscape, is always so important to a Hardy novel, short story, or poem.
Christopher wrote: "First, did you like this new Jane Eyre adaptation?..."Yes, I did like it, at least the film, if not the adaptation. I have encouraged my friends to see it, comparing it with Masterpiece Theatre quality. I last read Jane Eyre in 1992 if I believe my notes, so I can't really speak to the adaptation. There is a link on the film in the Victorian board, and I have found most of the comments so far pretty compatible with my own impressions. As I have said elsewhere (book review), Rochester has never been a hero in my reading of the man, so that flavors my reaction to the story. Did love the scenery -- that alone was worth the watching. Also, the lighting, once I grasped what was happening.
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...
Thanks for your word usage comparison with other Hardy novels.
Lily wrote: "My edition has the following note about Hardy and Newman:"The man whose mind contracted could be John Henry Newman, who famously converted to Catholicism in 1845; 'Hardy's attitude is so complete..."
Lily wrote: '....Hardy's attitude is so completely opposed to that of Newman'
Thanks for this Lily. I find it a strange observation because Hardy, together with his ' close friend Henry Moule, 'flirted' with Tractarianism for awhile and as quoted in my post 3 above he was thought to be 'consistently High Church, with regular attendance at the Tractarian service at Stinsford constructing an indispensable part of the Hardys’ family life and consequently exerting a major influence on the future writer’s memories and imagination...'.
Thanks for the background to Sir Robert Peel and the controversial legislation he introduced regarding the repeal of the Corn Laws, which was triggered by the need to free up more food for Ireland, where a potato famine was raging. Landowners resisted in the House of Commons what they perceived as an attack on their interests. Peel's Conservative Party would not support him, and the debate lasted for months. Eventually, in June 1846, with support from the Whigs and the Radicals, the Corn Laws were repealed. On the same day, Peel was defeated on another bill, and resigned. He never held office again.
His great contribution to British politics was indeed the creation of the 'Peelers, forerunners of the Metropolitan Police Force.
That is a very beautiful passage which you quoted at 106, especially 'the tappings of each ivy leaf on its neighbour were as the mutterings of their mournful souls'. A very gothic passage.
The sense I got from the notes was that Hardy didn't turn against Newman until Newman converted to Catholicism -- there were a couple of other passages that I didn't bother to copy out, but I had gone back and re-read because I had been confused the first time through. At least, that's my best understanding at this point.
Mod
The Pine Planters
Marty South's Reverie
II
From the bundle at hand here
I take each tree,
And set it to stand, here
Always to be;
When, in a second,
As if from fear
Of Life unreckoned
Beginning here,
It starts a sighing
Through day and night,
Though while there lying
'Twas voiceless quite.
It will sigh in the morning,
Will sigh at noon,
At the winter's warning,
In wafts of June;
Grieving that never
Kind Fate decreed
It should for ever
Remain a seed,
And shun the welter
Of things without,
Unneeding shelter
From storm and drought.
Thus, all unknowing
For whom or what
We set it growing
In this bleak spot,
It still will grieve here
Throughout its time,
Unable to leave here,
Or change its clime;
Or tell the story
Of us to-day
When, halt and hoary,
We pass away.
***
If you've read Hardy's beautiful novel, The Woodlanders, you'll most certainly recognize this scene. Again, I think the thing to focus on here is the connection Hardy makes with his characters to the landscape. It is ever so evocative, at least to me.
...that Hardy didn't turn against Newman until Newman converted to Catholicism...Yes, that may well be the case. There were many who went along with some gentle 'catholicising' of the CofE, bringing back old rituals etc., but who baulked against full conversion and feared a return to Rome. Newman went for it hook-line-and-sinker and has recently been made a Saint in acknowledgement of his services to catholicism.
My feeling with Hardy was that he liked the pre-Reformation rituals of the church, just as he liked the ancient rituals associated with country life - May Day, Harvest Festivals and the like. Whilst welcoming the new he was nostalgic for some of the old ways. Like many of us:).
The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910
Books mentioned in this topic
The Woodlanders (other topics)Jane Eyre (other topics)
The Return of the Native (other topics)
Two on a Tower (other topics)
The Woodlanders (other topics)
More...
