Did you like the book?

[bee]

everyone gave it bad reviews....what up with that??? just because it wasn't possible for vamps to get prego...? it's her book, even though she said they couldn't and they did, it's her desicison, she made up all the rules in this book, so why did everyone freak when bells got pregnant? seriousley, it's not like they're real and this can really happen...

[Lebbano]

Im tired of repeating myself, read the previous posts that ask the exact same questions.

[Toni]

Honey, there's a reason people are giving it negative reviews. The easiest way to learn why is by reading them. Mystery solved.


@ Saved By Grace

Hon, there are so many holes in the canon thanks to this book, it's ridiculous, and it actually goes beyond the pregnancy. For one thing Jasper was ridiculously out of character. He's ready to attack her over a finger cut but then she's gushing blood and he's just fine? Someone made a list of the inconsistencies created in the canon thanks to this book, but I'd have to find it.

Just know that the pregnancy was only at the top of a long list of things wrong with this book.

[Toni]

@ Saved By Grace

This is why I'm believing the rumors that this story either had very little or no editing. I mean, isn't that their JOB? To patch up and fix inconsistencies or at least help the author do so?

[Jessica]

so everyone so concerned about Bella getting pregnant because meyer wrote that vampires couldn't get pregnant, well if you payed attention bella wasn't a vampire when she got pregnant she was still human, she wasnt a vampire until after she had the baby, so she could still get pregnant and meyer never said anything about male vampires not being able to make a human pregnant. also i remember reading in the book on page 126 bella thinking about how it would be possible, that page pretty much explains how it was possible for bella to get pregnant. i think that everyone making such a big deal about this obviously didnt pay very good attention well reading and are getting mad over something stupid

[Toni]

@ Jess

Edward WAS a vampire, and originally, Meyer had both sexes as being infertile, meaning female vampires can't become pregnant and male vampires can't make females pregnant.

I remember the explanation too, mainly because it was half-assed, and did nothing to dismiss Meyer's previous remarks.

Also, thank you for continuing the fine tradition of insulting the intelligence of readers by insisting that the only people who didn't enjoy this book are idiots. It NEVER gets old...

[Kat]

Jess, the problem (among other things) with what you're saying here is that I'm NOT mad. I'm actually pleased.

Not because there were flaws in the book, which there were. That's unfortunate. But because I've found a delightful community where most people can debate these flaws maturely and intelligently.

[Toni]

@ Helkat14

Agreed! I like debating, comparing and contrasting. I don't understand why the assumption is that the reason we do this is because we're angry and or bitter. Can't we just like discussing things?

[Sara]

This book is kind of strange. I dont like that they didnt have an all-out battle at the end. Oh well i geuss. I now now the meaning of the last book cover...
Check Mate
i really liked Breaking Dawn it was pretty cool

[Sabrina]

I dont think it deserves the rep it wass given. Many peope have been dissing this book. I liked the end because noone got hurt and you met another half vampire. But ive got a ? Why didn't jacob leave?

[Toni]

@ Saved By Grace

Don't worry, you make perfect sense. That sort of thing gets me heated, too. It's really conceited to make the assumption that someone is too "stupid" to appreciate just because you like it, especially if the questions being raised are intelligent and articulate in nature. How is that stupid?

[Saya]

Because Meyer has stated in her Personal Correspondence that vampire bodily fluids are dried up and that the only thing running through their veins, salivating their mouths, and wetting their eyeballs is their venom.
The ability to conceive does not rest solely on the potential of the female, it also rests on the male. Edward should not have any semen in him with which to impregnate Bella.

[Sarah]

@Sara

The book cover does not represent a checkmate. In order for that to happen there has to be a king who has nowhere left to go. SM has stated in an interview after the book came out that the cover represents Bella and Bella. The red Bella in the back was the more timid and shy Bella and the queen in the front is the new strong Bella.

As for the "battle" at the end. In the same interview, SM said that she wanted it to be a battle of the minds not physical strength. She said that there was no way the Cullens and other vampire covens would ever win a battle with the Volturi because the Volturi are so powerful. So, she had to do it with a mental battle.
This is all lame in my opinion because why did she spend half the book with Bella working on fighting and using her power to shield everyone? They had planned out their strategy of using Bella's power to shield everyone from Jane and company's powers long enough to attack. It was pretty convincing to most readers that they stood a chance. In my mind, SM was just filling space on pages and rambling because in the end it was all for nothing. For her to say that it would never have worked just diminished the need to have half the story even exist. This is why several professional reviews and reader reviews have stated that the ending was very anti-climactic.

By the way, the interview I am referring to is the several part video clips you can watch on EW's website.

[PandaRanda]

@Saya

Semen is made up of citric acid, free amino acids, fructose, enzymes, phosphorylcholine, prostaglandin, potassium, zinc, probably some other things and of course, sperm, which are sex cells. It doesn't actually have water in it to begin with, but after the semen has been ejaculated it first becomes jelly-like, then after 5-40 minutes it will become watery. Scientists believe that this process helps the sperm get to the eggs in a woman. But if it leaves the male but doesn't end up in a woman, then I'm guessing the enzymes break things down the stuff in semen to produce the water which evaporates and eventually causes the semen to dry up. The sperm/sex cells are still present but probably dead, that's how forensic scientists can find out if the semen is yours or not..if you're a guy. So when all the other things "dry up" or magically disappear, whatever they do when a vamp goes hard, is it because the enzymes become super and break up all the other substances in the body leaving the cells to go hard? But even so, the sperm will still be there, like all the other "hard and dried up cells" in a vampire.

So technically Edward still has the gametes (sperm) in him. How he got them into Bella and whether they can still impregnate her is a whole separate problem yet to be solved, but he's still got the stuff...unless...he got rid off them by himself...do you think Edward did? I wouldn't like to believe so...but you never know...

I'm not quite sure on what exactly venom consist of, but it's probably different depending on the type of venom. Anyway if everything else dries up in a vampire how come the venom is able to stay nice and runny and wet? Is it a by-product created from the blood they drink? If so, perhaps that's how they keep the venom running, because it can't dry up all that quickly, after all vampires are cold and aren't able to perspire and such...so if that's true for venom, perhaps (and I'm just speculating here, not saying this is what Stephenie Meyer had in mind...) it's a similar process for Edward's "semen", maybe it's a by-product of the blood he drinks, and if so, he can keep it from "drying out" by regularly drinking blood, which he does. Stephenie Meyer said most fluids are gone, not all...semen one of them? And it shouldn't dry out all that quickly either...since there is no way for anything to really escape his body unless he secretes it through his saliva...or his ya know...XD But how do all the other fluids in their body's dry up then? Is the burning some super-heating process that pretty much boils out everything from your body then leaves your cells to change and go hard? So after this process...if new fluids (like blood) enters your new vamp body does that mean it can't dry out anymore...since the stuff can't escape? Unless out your mouth, eyeballs, ears, anus etc. But they don't go toilet or perspire...and I doubt it seeps out their ears and eyeballs...so out their mouth...as venom? So all the blood they drink becomes venom/semen/something? Cause it can't be broken down and used as an energy source since all the cells in their bodies are dead (unable to conduct cellular processes like respiration) and the proteins, (i.e. enzymes) acids, chemicals etc. are all "dried up" so how exactly does the blood become any use to them/change/whatever it does? Does it just sit in them then...ferment? Wait can't do that either cause there's nothing in them that can cause it to ferment! Oh well, whatever...must be magic, right?

It won't be human semen either anymore...since apparently all the cells in his body get an extra 2 sets of chromosomes when he goes vamp...which means his gametes should get another set of chromosomes, no? Oh...but they're meant to be dead...so they shouldn't be able to move and swim on up to Bella's eggs...but then he, Edward, shouldn't be able to move...since you need live cells for that process to work too! Science makes no sense when it comes to vamps! THE TWO JUST CAN'T COINCIDE!!! AHHH! I guess my biological knowledge isn't intense enough to try and figure it out...but uh, surely it's enough to show that science and vamps just don't work...so my point is why are people still trying to put the two together? Stephenie's fault huh?

[Penny]

PANDARANDA, you totally make me laugh.

So yeah, how can something thats dead even have two extra sets of chromosomes? They are dead! DEAD! Vampires aren't another species, they are dead! So if anything they should just have 23 sets of chromosomes that are dead. Why they walk and talk makes no sense (scientifically speaking of course). If it was all just magic, then I'd totally be able to accept this story (well, not totally, the imprinting on fetuses is just gross and there is a whole other list of stuff that's just too stupid for words but, I'd be able to accept the whole vampires can have babiez thing).

[Daibreak]

Wow, it's amazing to me that so many have gotten caught up on all the small details of the book and made it ruin it for them. I read each book, one right after the other (took me about 8 days to complete the whole series), and although I can't deny that Meyer's writing style is a bit sophomoric, I think that for the most part, the story is without major inconsistencies or loop holes. Meyer has created ENTIRELY NEW ideas to the hundreds of vampire/werewolf mythologies and legends, and has done quite well, in my opinion. To compare the facts of the mythological realm that Meyer has created to those already assumed or created by Stoker, Rice or even Joss Whedon is unfair and a little illogical. Meyer's theory has drifted more towards that of the Blade Triology in that she has not assumed like others that vampires are dead necessarily (in the Blade saga, vampirism is considered a disease for which there is a cure - like anemia) but have been created as counterparts to humans. In book 1 she even references that when Bella asks where the vampires come from. Edward (I believe) tells her that he likes to think that they came from the same place as humans did, which implies that they are living and different (which allows the chromosome theory to make complete sense).

If you get a chance to read the books one right after the other and have very little time between them, I think you'll find that the story flows better. Certain details get forgotten over time when waiting for the next book and since I had no time in between, I think the series was much more compelling for me than it may have been had I been forced to wait between books.

Creating a whole new world in one's mind is not easy - applying rules, ideas, and theories to that world is a matter of balance and attention to detail for which I think Meyer did quite well, maybe not flawlessly, but then again, she's only human, right? :P

[Penny]

I don't know how they could not be dead. They don't even have hearts that beat. Their organs don't function. All things that Stephenie states in order to make "sense" of her vampires. They don't need to breathe. All they do is drink blood and even if they don't drink blood, they don't die because they are already dead. They are dead or undead--like zombies--Dead humans. If they were a species of their own, they could breed with each other. The few times they have made children from vampire on human sex, they don't even make whole vampires, they just make half-vampires. No, not a species.

Stephenie should have left the science alone, especially since she doesn't know how to back it up. Or she should have done some more research in order to make a believable scientific explanation. She didn't need to write a bible length explanation but she could have tried harder. And yes, I really do think she could have done some more research. Most authors do their research before they write a fictional novel. She introduced the scientific explanation, she needed to back it up.

I did read the first three books in 5 days, last year. They were fabulous (although pretty silly as well, but I still LOVED them). This book wasn't even on the same level as the first three. It was just--ugh, there aren't any words to describe this book.

[Lori]

I'm reading BD a second time. Slower this time. I'm noticing things that I didn't the first go round. It seemed like things happened so quickly during the first read, now I'm finding that things happened OVER time. Does that make sense? I don't know. I liked the book the first time I read it, but I'm liking in a lot more this second time through. And, I don't know, maybe the not-rushing-through-it is helping some. I would suggest a second read - however, if you are hell-bent on not liking it, don't bother.

[Shannon]

I've given some thought to a second read. However, I've done such a good job of repressing it that I'm afraid if I re-read and still hate it I'll have a harder time getting over it. Also, I'm not sure if the problems I have with the book will go away upon a second reading. They might just stand out all the more. I think I'll steer clear.

[Penny]

I've re-read some of the Jacob chapters, in order to get a better feel for Leah Clearwater and I noticed a few things that I didn't notice the first time around. Pretty interesting read. But yeah, totally not going to read the rest of the book, anytime soon--probably never again.

[Brooke]

hey aunt lori!

[Brooke]

i agree, im reading it a seconed time to, and everything is so much more depht than i thought it was.

[Lori]

One thing that I missed in my first read was the fact that Bella and Renesmee truly bonded. They had time to bond. Bella just sort-of jumps ahead three months and we miss all of that. But she mentions it. I read so fast the first time, that I was under the impression that so much was happening so fast that Bella never really got to know her daughter. I guess during that time Bella also had time to get used to the idea of Jacob imprinting. Another interesting thing I noticed was Alice's note left with Sam. When she writes "It's the only way for us" I think she was talking about ALL of them, not just her and Jasper.

[Shannon]

I think I'm probably right not to read it again. Those things just won't change my opinion about the book. Too much went too wrong, too fast. I'm glad you're enjoying it more, though.

[PandaRanda]

@Daibreak

Oh, it didn't ruin it for me, it's just made it so much more fun simply because there are so many people interested in arguing about it. I'm still relatively pleased with the book, just going on believing that the whole book is magical and that science doesn't come into play at all...like ignoring the chromosome thing and other ridiculous sciency things added into it for fun. I'm just sick of people saying "Vampires can't make babies! It's scientifically incorrect!!" Well duh vampires themselves are scientifically incorrect. Hah!

[Moira]

I agree, it's all fantasy and you can't use real science to back up any of it. That being said... how come Carlise, with his 300+ years as a scholar and medical doctor didn't have a clue that Edward could knock up Bella while she was still human?

[PandaRanda]

*scowls* But you can't just say "It's all fantasy" because those avid Breaking Dawn haters aren't taking that for an excuse! So you have to talk about science....except it just doesn't make sense since it is fantasy...T_T Ah phooey. But yeah...maybe he was hiding under a rock for those 300+ years...

[Kat]

Panda - "Because it's fantasy" WOULD be a valid excuse for supernatural phenomena if it wasn't inconsistent with the science used to explain those things. For example, I accept the existence of vampires "because it's fantasy." I don't accept chromosomal deviations "because it's fantasy," because if you're going to start to explain something with science you can't just stop half way through and call it magic. It's either science or it's fantasy, but it can't be both.

[Shannon]

Yeah, what Helkat said!!!!

[PandaRanda]

That is my point, that science and magic don't cohere, therefore you can't have them both. =P Stephenie Meyer made the mistake of putting science into her "fantasy" book, like the whole messed up chromosome idea...but I still don't get why the existence of fertile vampires is wrong, but the existence of vampires is okay...what I'm getting is that people can't accept the vampire baby idea because it doesn't make scientific sense (semen being fertile and able to swim on up and make Bella pregnant), and my point is, well duh neither does vampires! That's all, I still don't agree with the chromosome thing though...that was totally unnecessary...but oh well. =P

[Melinda]

I'm just curious to know how Panda would've had the whole story end?

I thought it was perfect to bring a child into the story that would bind both werewolves and vampires together which ended up saving them all. It just made sense to me though the whole imprinting thing bothered me at first. In the end I was completely satisfied and I just love Renesme. Who cares how it happened. There are a lot of things in real life that we can't even explain.

[PandaRanda]

I liked the ending, I'm definitely pro-Breaking Dawn, my argument is against those who don't like the idea of bringing a child into the story that binds both werewolves and vampires together...

"But I still don't get why the existence of fertile vampires is wrong, but the existence of vampires is okay."

Sorry if I'm confusing you. I also agree with some of the stuff said against Breaking Dawn, as some of their arguments make plenty of sense...but overall, I still like the book, regardless of how inconsistent it can be, because it doesn't bother me. I just enjoy a good debate. =P

[Lori]

I'm not finished with reading the second time, but my feelings overall are different. I am considering all four books more closely than I did before. I have come to 'my own' conclusion about Bella and her choices. I think that in New Moon Bella and Jacob fell in love (unbeknown to Bella) and in Eclipse she had to make a choice. But I don't think what she had to choose was "Do I want Edward or do I want Jacob?" I think what she had to choose was "Can I have Edward with Jacob still in my life?" She had already chosen Edward. She just needed to decide how she could live without Jacob in her life as well. (Does this make sense?) So she made her choice. She decided that she could not have Edward and still have Jacob in her life. Do you all remember that miserable night after breaking ties with Jacob?
I think that Edward is Bella's Best Love while Jacob is her Best Friend. Best friends are the ones you can do anything with. Bella had that with Jacob. She didn't have that with Edward, for obvious reasons. Now, in BD, she is having that with Edward. They finally have the complete relationship that most married couples have. Their Best Love and their Best Friend in their companion. I am loving that about this book.

[Kat]

Panda, I think I get what you're saying a little better. In response, I think it IS possible to write a book about fertile vampires. The way to do that would be to NOT spend the first three books having one vampire lament her infertility:

ROSALIE: Bella, you should stay human because you might want a baby someday and us vampires can't have them.

BELLA: No, I love Edward. Not babies. I choose Edward instead of babies.

ROSALIE: But you see, vampire bodies have no growth and development and thus our reproductive systems don't work.

(This would be an awesome time for Carlisle to speak up and say that this isn't true of guy vampires for some reason.)

BELLA: Whoa, I'm pregnant!

EDWARD: (Does not accuse her of sleeping with Jacob. Instead does what absolutely no guy in this situation has ever done and assumes that everything he knows about science is somehow wrong.)

ROSALIE: (Never mentions how unfair it is that guy vampires apparently still do have working body functions)

CARLISLE: (Never clarifies this.)

BELLA: I guess I don't have to choose between Edward and babies, thus weakening the plot. Hey Edward, I thought you had no bodily functions, so how could you impregnate me?

EDWARD: No, we never have that conversation.

BELLA: Oh, my bad.

[Lori]

*laughing* A LOT

[Penny]

@ Helkat14, what you just posted is full of win. Way to drive the point home.

[Lori]

I do think that Rosalie took out her frustrations about male vampires being able to procreate on Edward. She wasn't always on the best of terms with him, I don't think, but I have a feeling that her bitterness in BD stemmed from that particular fact.
I think she may have Jan Brady syndrome: Edward, Edward, Edward

[Penny]

Hey Helkat14, I just realized that you did that in the same style of Shinga from livejournal (btw, thanks for the link to that parody, it was amazing). I've been wanting to beg Shinga to do a parody of the other books, especially Breaking Dawn, but I'm pretty sure she'd never do it.

Anyway, I think you should do it. Write up a parody! Please. I would greatly appreciate it (as would many other people, I am sure).

[Kat]

Haha, you're totally right Penny. I so didn't realize I was even doing that...I guess it was the subconscious influence of the master :-)

However, I'd be happy to write said parody, as long as it was appreciated as humor and not a serious critique of the book :-p

Lori - you may be right about that, but if so, it should have been overtly stated. It was hinted that Rosalie's frustration with Edward came from the fact that he never admired her.

[Lori]

I agree that it was hinted that she was just mad about him not admiring her as everyone did, but she also says she "never liked Dr. Cullen or his wife and her brother...(Edward). It had upset me that they were all more beautiful that I was, especially that the men were." She didn't like him even before she was changed.

[Sara]

Most science is based on fantasy, or some people think. However, I think that the weird chromasome thing was based on actual science. But thats just me.

[Kat]

Sara, I didn't really follow that. Want to clarify?

[Leslie]

I hope there's a follow-up book where Renesme has a liger for a pet.

[PandaRanda]

@Helkat14

As to what Sara might be going on about, ever heard of polyploidy? (Yay another bio lesson! XD)

Polyploidy

Humans are diploid creatures, meaning for every chromosome in our body, there is another one to match it.

* Haploid creatures have one of each chromosome
* Diploid creatures have two of each chromosome
* Triploid creatures have three of each chromosome
* Polyploid creatures have three or more of each chromosome

It is possible for a species to produce offspring that contains more chromosomes than its parent. This can be a result of non-disjunction/mutation, where normally a diploid parent would produce diploid offspring, but in the case of non-disjunction/mutation of the chromosomes in one or two of the parents, produces a polyploid.

Polyploidy is responsible for the creation of thousands of species in today's planet, and will continue to do so. It is also responsible for increasing genetic diversity and producing species showing an increase in size, vigour and an increased resistance to disease. End bio lesson.

So yeah, not quite the same, but a similar concept. Polyploidy happens during gametic mutation, followed by sexual reproduction, however it can also occur due to abnormal cell divisions, including cells that are not gametes. Which may explain how vampires end up with more chromosomes (like during their burning changing process...where I guess, due to high levels of radiation/something, all the cells drastically mutate) and subsequently their hybrid offspring end up with extra chromosomes.

Okay...still doesn't explain why it happens, maybe just because of the changing process? But, so I get why hybrids might end up mutants with a different chromosome count...being hybrids and all (zorse, liger etc., does that mean hybrid baby is sterile O_o?) and because she's different than normal humans and is still alive, so she actually still uses the information on her chromosomes to code for cell functions ect. Being different from normal humans obviously means she has very different genetic codes in her cells, so yeah, +1 for polyploidy in hybrid baby. But like...why the heck do vampires need them? They're dead...they don't use chromosomes, because their cells aren't working. There's pretty much no logical reason as to why they get more chromosomes. The only reason is to create mutant, hybrid babies. Does it happen just because changing involves extreme levels of radiation (huh, burning? Makes sense...maybe) and mutagens? Weird...ah...that's disappointing still haven't figured anything out. Phooey.

[Amber]

I really enjoyed the Twilight series. They are fun books full of hope and love. I did think breaking dawn was a great book, but I thought it ended a little to "Happily ever after". I'm not saying I wanted everyone dead, but it was all very PERFECT!!

I still love the books and will read them over and over again!

Amber

[Kerri]

For me, Bella getting pregnant is a minor issue (but an issue nontheless). These are my reasons why I didn't like, Breaking Dawn and feel that Eclipse is a better ending to the saga:
1. I was creeped out by Jacob imprinting on Renesmee.
2. The name Renesmee is horrible (if I were Rene and Esmee I would just say give the child a better name!)
3. The ending is anticlimactic, no real fight scene since that is what the book builds up to (Eclipse at least has a decent fight scene and the good guys win).
4. All the characters, even the bad guys, get a happily ever after (The Volturis just walk away unscathed and continue to be despots, they should at least be stripped of their power, seriously if Bella's power is so great the Volturis should be more afraid of the Cullen Clan and just drop a bomb on them, or something)
5. The point of view changes which is jolting-- although, Jacob is entertaining and it's funner to be inside his head than Bella's, it's inconsistent, there is no precedence, so why would you do it?
6. And last but not least, Bella's vampire skills are weak--I'd rather have the power to influence people... oh the things I could do...
(I thought of a 7th reason, but it's too mean.)

I have no interest in seeing the movie, and I think it's just dumb that they're making it into a 2 parter because there really isn't much to fill.

[Kerri]

Saved By Grace wrote: "I like debating. I don't like it when someone assumes that I didn't pay attention. I know I haven't read the book, but I HAVE read basically all the reviews about it, spoilers online, every discuss..."

I totally agree. An author can't and shouldn't break the rules for the world that they create. It confuses the reader, and invalidates their own writing.