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PRESIDENTIAL SERIES > 1. POLK ~ INTRODUCTION, PROLOGUE, KEY DATES AND CHAPTERS 1-2 (xi - 36) (02/07/11 - 02/13/11) ~ No spoilers, please

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message 1: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
KICKOFF DAY - FEBRUARY 7, 2011

Hello Everyone,

February 7, 2011 is the first day in the kickoff week for Polk: The Man Who Transformed the Presidency and America by Walter R. Borneman.

This begins the first week's reading in our new Presidential Series group discussion.

The complete table of contents is as follows:

Table of Contents

List of Maps p. xi
Introduction: Dark Horse, Bright Land p. xiii
A Prologue in Two Parts p. xv
Key Dates in the Life of James K. Polk p. xxi

PART ONE-The Man

ONE: Old Hickory's Boy p. 3
TWO: Carrying the Water p. 19
THREE: Tennessee and Old Tippecanoe p. 37
FOUR: The Last Defeat p. 52
FIVE: Hands of Texas p. 67
SIX: A Summons from Old Hickory p. 84
SEVEN: Baltimore, 1844 p. 94
EIGHT: "Who is James K. Polk?" p. 111

PART TWO-The Conquest

NINE: Making Good On Texas p. 133
TEN: Standing Firm on Oregon p. 150
ELEVEN: Eyeing California p. 170
TWELVE: Mission to Mexico p. 190
THIRTEEN: "American Blood upon American Soil" p. 202
FOURTEEN: 54 40' or Compromise! p. 216
FIFTEEN: Too Santa Fe and Beyond p. 233
SIXTEEN: Mr. Polk's War p. 253
SEVENTEEN: Old Bullion's Son-in-Law p. 269
EIGHTEEN: A President on the Spot p. 286
NINETEEN: Securing the Spoils p. 300
TWENTY: The Whigs Find Another General p. 316
TWENTY ONE: Homeward Bound p. 331
TWENTY TWO: A Presidential Assessment p. 345

EPILOGUE: Sarah p. 358
Acknowledgments p. 361
Notes p. 363
Bibliography p. 396
Index p. 405


Syllabus

Polk: The Man Who Transformed the Presidency and America by Walter R. Borneman

Week One - February 7th - February 13th -> Introduction, Prologue, Key Dates, Chapter ONE, and TWO p. xi - 36
INTRODUCTION: DARK HORSE, BRIGHT LAND, PROLOGUE IN TWO PARTS, KEY DATES, ONE - Old Hickory's Boy and TWO - Carrying the Water

Week Two - February 14th - February 20th -> Chapters THREE and FOUR p. 37 - 66
THREE - Tennessee and Old Tippecanoe and FOUR - The Last Defeat

Week Three - February 21st - February 27th -> Chapters FIVE and SIX p. 67 - 93
FIVE - Hands Off Texas and SIX - A Summons from Old Hickory Old Hickory

Week Four - February 28th - March 6th -> Chapters SEVEN and EIGHT p. 94 - 132
SEVEN - Baltimore, 1844 and EIGHT - "Who is James K. Polk?"

Week Five - March 7th - March 13th -> Chapters NINE and TEN p. 133 - 169
NINE - Making Good on Texas and TEN - Standing Firm on Oregon

Week Six - March 14th - March 20th -> Chapters ELEVEN and TWELVE p. 170 - 201
ELEVEN - Eying California and TWELVE - Mission to Mexico

Week Seven - March 21st - March 27th -> Chapters THIRTEEN and FOURTEEN p. 202 - 232
THIRTEEN - "American Blood upon American Soil" and FOURTEEN - 54 40' or Compromise!

Week Eight - March 28th - April 3rd -> Chapters FIFTEEN and SIXTEEN p. 233 - 268
FIFTEEN - To Santa Fe and Beyond and SIXTEEN - Mr. Polk's War

Week Nine - April 4th - April 10th -> Chapter SEVENTEEN p. 269 - 285
SEVENTEEN - Old Bullion's Son-in-Law

Week Ten - April 11th - April 17th -> Chapter EIGHTEEN p. 286 - 299
EIGHTEEN - A President on the Spot

Week Eleven - April 18th - April 24th -> Chapter NINETEEN and TWENTY p. 300 - 330
NINETEEN - Securing the Spoils and TWENTY - The Whigs Find Another General

Week Twelve - April 25th - April 30th -> Chapters TWENTY, TWENTY TWO, EPILOGUE, and ACKNOWLEDGMENTS p. 331 - 362
TWENTY ONE - Homeward Bound, TWENTY TWO - A Presidential Assessment, EPILOGUE: Sarah, and ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

The assignment for this week includes the following segments/pages:

Week One - February 7th - February 13th -> Introduction, Prologue, Key Dates, Chapter ONE, and TWO p. xi - 36
INTRODUCTION: DARK HORSE, BRIGHT LAND, PROLOGUE IN TWO PARTS, KEY DATES, ONE - Old Hickory's Boy and TWO - Carrying the Water


We look forward to your participation; but remember this is a non spoiler thread.

We will open up threads for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers.

This book is being kicked off on February 7, 2011. This will be the first week's assignment for this book.

We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle.

A special welcome to those who will be newcomers to this discussion and thank you to those who have actively contributed on the previous Presidential Series selection. We are glad to have you all.

~Bentley

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

Polk The Man Who Transformed the Presidency and America by Walter R. BornemanWalter R. Borneman



message 2: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig Here we are again. I'm looking forward to people discussing this book. Polk is one of these presidents we don't learn much about in school except for the Mexican War.

The author begins the book with Polk losing his second try at being elected governor of Tennessee. However, the next year, he becomes president. Was he a dark horse candidate? Maybe not.

Polk is a protege of General Andrew Jackson. They have similar things in common: the area they were born and both moving to Tennessee to end up in the law and politics. After growing up in North Carolina and going to the University of North Carolina, Polk ends up in Tennessee clerking for an attorney, then becoming clerk of the TN Senate. It was a great way to learn how the legislature operated. He met the likes of Sam Houston and David Crockett.

Apparently, Jackson knew the Polk family and also knew Polk's future wife, Sarah Childress. He marries Sarah in 1824, two years after he is elected to the state legislature. He supports the sale of land for public education and voted for Jackson to become U.S. Senator.

Chapter 2 explores a little more the connection between Jackson and Polk as both move up in their political careers. In the summer of 1824, Polk is elected to the U.S. House for the first of seven terms, very impressive. It was in this year that the House had to decide on president between Jackson and Henry Clay. Clay hoped to use his large influence to make himself the winner. Clay dislikes Jackson to the point that he got Kentucky his home state to vote for John Q. Adams. It was seen as a "corrupt bargain" as Clay became Adams' Secretary of State. It would haunt Clay forever.

Jackson immediately prepares for a run in 1828. Meanwhile, Polk supports Jackson's bid while building a friendship with the General. Once Jackson is in office in 1829, Polk supports Jackson's policies against the National Bank, territorial expansion, lower tariffs for the South, and slavery. Polk wanted to be Speaker and Jackson helps him win the post in 1835. However, it was at the expense of fellow Tennessean John Bell. Even in their own home state, Jackson becomes the focus of political division as seen as Jackson's own hand-picked successor for president, Martin Van Buren, loses Tennessee in the 1836 elections.


message 3: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig What are your first impressions of Polk?


message 4: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Feb 07, 2011 06:30AM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Firstly, I thought that he was cut from the same cloth as Jackson but in a way; he was a bit more refined or polished (or became more so). He also seems to be quite ambitious. But it is early.


message 5: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig thanks, Bentley, some good insights there. Polk doesn't seem to have Jackson's temper either, which got him into trouble. This is a good thing.


message 6: by Bryan (last edited Feb 08, 2011 05:43AM) (new)

Bryan Craig Here is some information on our cast of characters this week.

Andrew Jackson was the most popular man in his time. This is good to remember since the author argues that Jackson helped Polk's political career. We have a few giants here.


message 7: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig Andrew Jackson:

Andrew Jackson, seventh President of the United States, was the dominant actor in American politics between Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln. Born to obscure parents and orphaned in youth, he was the first "self-made man" and the first westerner to reach the White House. He became a democratic symbol and founder of the Democratic Party, the country's most venerable political organization. During his two-term presidency, he expanded executive powers and transformed the President's role from chief administrator to popular tribune.

Jackson was born in 1767 in Waxhaw, South Carolina, to Scotch-Irish immigrants. He fought as a boy in the Revolutionary War, studied law, and in 1788 moved west to Nashville. In 1791, he began living with Rachel Donelson Robards, whose husband had abandoned her. They were formally married after her divorce in 1794. Charges of adultery arising from the episode dogged Jackson's later political career. After serving as Tennessee prosecutor, judge, congressman, and senator, he won fame as a major general in the War of 1812 with smashing victories against the Creek Indians in 1814 and the British at New Orleans in January 1815.

Jackson's triumph at New Orleans quickly became the stuff of legend and made him America's greatest military hero since George Washington. In 1818, he led an army in pursuit of Seminole Indians into Spanish Florida, touching off an international furor. After Spain ceded Florida, Jackson served briefly as territorial governor and then as a senator, representing Tennessee, from 1823 to 1825. In a confused, four-candidate presidential race in 1824, Jackson led the popular and electoral vote but lost in the House of Representatives, through the influence of Speaker Henry Clay, to John Quincy Adams. Jackson challenged Adams again in 1828 and defeated him in a campaign which centered on Jackson's image as a man of the people battling aristocracy and corruption. Jackson easily defeated Henry Clay in 1832.

Jackson's presidency defined itself in two central episodes: the nullification crisis and the "Bank War." Jackson took office amid mounting sectional acrimony over the "American System" program of fostering economic development through transportation subsidies and through protective tariffs on imports to aid American manufacturers. Many Southerners believed these policies promoted Northern growth at their expense. Jackson curbed the American System by vetoing road and canal bills beginning with the Maysville Road in 1830. However, in 1832 the state of South Carolina declared the existing tariff unconstitutional, null and void. The state took steps to block tariff collections within its borders. Though he favored a lower tariff, Jackson acted quickly to uphold federal supremacy—by force, if necessary. In a ringing proclamation, he declared the Union indivisible and branded nullification as treason. Congress reduced the tariff in 1833, defusing the crisis.

The Second Bank of the United States was a corporation chartered by Congress to provide a national paper currency and manage the government's finances. Like Thomas Jefferson, Jackson believed such a bank to be dangerous and unconstitutional. In 1832, he vetoed a bill to extend the Bank's charter beyond its scheduled expiration in 1836. Jackson's veto message counterposed the virtuous plain people against the Bank's privileged stockholders. The next year Jackson moved the federal government's deposits from the Bank to state-chartered banks, triggering a brief financial panic and prompting the Senate to censure him in 1834. Undeterred, Jackson launched a broader assault against all forms of government-granted privilege, especially corporate charters. His Farewell Address in 1837 warned of an insidious "money power."

Jackson's Bank War and its populistic, egalitarian rhetoric shaped the platform and rhetoric of his new Democratic party. (His policies also arguably helped trigger a financial panic in 1837, which deepened into a severe depression.) By casting himself as the people's tribune against the moneyed elite and their tools in government, he introduced an enduring theme in American politics.

He also carved out a stronger role for the presidency. Jackson replaced many government officials on partisan grounds, inaugurating the "spoils system." Catering to his core regional constituency of Southern planters and Western frontiersmen, he condemned antislavery agitation, favored cheaper public lands, and strong-armed Indian tribes into removing west of the Mississippi. In a confrontation between Georgia and the Cherokee Nation, Jackson backed state authority against tribal sovereignty and refused to protect Indians' treaty rights despite their recognition by the United States Supreme Court. Jackson wielded executive powers vigorously, defying Congress, vetoing more bills than all his predecessors combined, and frequently reshuffling his cabinet.

Strong-willed and sharp-tempered, a fierce patriot and rabid partisan, Jackson was always controversial, both as a general and as President. He personalized disputes and demonized opponents. In a notorious episode, Jackson broke open his first Cabinet and forced a rupture with Vice-President John C. Calhoun by championing the character of Peggy Eaton, the vivacious and controversial wife of the secretary of war. Yet behind Jackson's towering rages often lay shrewd calculation of their political effects.

Jackson secured the presidential succession in 1836 to his faithful lieutenant and second vice president, Martin Van Buren. He then retired to The Hermitage, his cotton plantation near Nashville, where he died in 1845.
(Source: http://millercenter.org/president/jac...)


message 8: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig Henry Clay:

Senator and a Representative from Kentucky; born in the district known as “the Slashes,” Hanover County, Va., April 12, 1777; attended the public schools; studied law in Richmond, Va.; admitted to the bar in 1797 and commenced practice in Lexington, Ky.; member, State house of representatives 1803; elected as a Democratic Republican to the United States Senate to fill the vacancy caused by the resignation of John Adair and served from November 19, 1806, to March 3, 1807, despite being younger than the constitutional age limit of thirty years; member, State house of representatives 1808-1809, and served as speaker in 1809; again elected as a Democratic Republican to the United States Senate to fill the vacancy caused by the resignation of Buckner Thruston and served from January 4, 1810, to March 3, 1811; elected as a Democratic Republican to the Twelfth and Thirteenth Congresses and served from March 4, 1811, to January 19, 1814, when he resigned; Speaker of the House of Representatives (Twelfth and Thirteenth Congresses); appointed one of the commissioners to negotiate the treaty of peace with Great Britain in 1814; elected as a Democratic Republican to the Fourteenth Congress (March 4, 1815-March 3, 1817); seat declared vacant by the governor of Kentucky, “caused by the acceptance of Henry Clay to sign a commercial convention as minister plenipotentiary to Great Britain”; elected in a special election as a Democratic Republican to the Fourteenth Congress to fill his own vacancy on October 30, 1815; re-elected as a Democratic Republican to the Fifteenth and succeeding Congress (March 4, 1817-March 3, 1821); Speaker of the House of Representatives (Fourteenth, Fifteenth and Sixteenth Congresses); elected to the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Congresses and served from March 3, 1823, to March 6, 1825, when he resigned; again served as Speaker of the House of Representatives (Eighteenth Congress); appointed Secretary of State by President John Quincy Adams 1825-1829; elected as a National Republican to the United States Senate on November 10, 1831, to fill the vacancy in the term commencing March 4, 1831; reelected as a Whig in 1836 and served from November 10, 1831, until March 31, 1842, when he resigned; chairman, Committee on Foreign Relations (Twenty-third and Twenty-fourth Congresses), Committee on Finance (Twenty-seventh Congress); unsuccessful presidential candidate of the Democratic Republican Party in 1824, of the National Republican Party in 1832, and of the Whig Party in 1844; again elected to the United States Senate and served from March 4, 1849, until his death in Washington, D.C., June 29, 1852; lay in state in the Rotunda of the U.S. Capitol, July 1, 1852; funeral services held in the Senate Chamber; interment in Lexington Cemetery, Lexington, KY.
(Source: http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/...)


message 9: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig John Bell:

a Representative and a Senator from Tennessee; born near Nashville, Tenn., February 18, 1796; graduated from Cumberland College in 1814; studied law; admitted to the bar in 1816 and commenced practice in Franklin, Tenn.; member, State senate 1817; declined to be a candidate for reelection and moved to Nashville; elected to the Twentieth, and to the six succeeding Congresses (March 4, 1827-March 3, 1841); Speaker of the House of Representatives (Twenty-third Congress); chairman, Committee on Indian Affairs (Twenty-first through Twenty-sixth Congresses, except for Twenty-third), Committee on Judiciary (Twenty-second and Twenty-third Congresses); appointed by President William Henry Harrison as Secretary of War March 5, 1841, and served until September 12, 1841, when he resigned; member, State house of representatives in 1847; elected as a Whig to the United States Senate in 1847; reelected in 1853, and served from November 22, 1847, to March 3, 1859; unsuccessful candidate in 1860 for President of the United States on the Constitutional Union ticket; investor in ironworks at Cumberland Furnace in Chattanooga, Tenn.; died at his home on the banks of the Cumberland River, near Cumberland Furnace, September 10, 1869; interment in Mount Olivet Cemetery, near Nashville, Tenn.
(Source: http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/...)


message 10: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig John Quincy Adams:

For the boy, it was an incredible introduction to the courts of Europe and the practice of diplomacy. For seven and a half years, John Quincy lived in Paris, Amsterdam, St. Petersburg, and London. He was a student at the University of Leiden for about a year when, because of his excellence in French, he was asked to serve as secretary and translator for Francis Dana, posted as emissary to St. Petersburg from 1781 to 1783. Young Adams returned to Paris to serve as secretary to his father through the negotiation of peace ending the American Revolutionary War and, in 1785, returned home to complete his education at Harvard College. He graduated two years later.

Admitted to the bar in 1790, Adams practiced law in Boston—with surprisingly little success, considering that his father was vice president of the United States. In 1794, President Washington appointed him minister to the Netherlands, where he served with distinction. He also reencountered the woman he would marry, Louisa Catherine Johnson, the daughter of an American merchant living abroad. Adams had first met her in France when he was twelve. For months, Adams visited her family nightly, always leaving when the daughters sat down at the piano to play and sing—he hated the sound of the female voice in song. Despite his taste in music and the reservations of his father, the President, who did not think his son should have a foreign-born wife, the two were married in 1797.
Political Trials and Tribulations

After an assignment as the minister to Prussia, Adams returned home and won election to the Massachusetts legislature. In 1803, the legislature appointed him to the United States Senate—Senators were not chosen by popular vote until 1913. As a senator, he supported Thomas Jefferson in the Louisiana Purchase and was the only Federalist in either house to do so. In 1808, the Federalist-dominated Massachusetts legislature repaid his independence by declining to return him to the Senate. He then switched his allegiance to the Republican Party.

Adams's loss of his Senate seat launched the first great phase of his career. President James Madison named him the first U.S. minister to Russia, after which he was assigned to head the five-person delegation empowered to negotiate a peace agreement ending the War of 1812. The treaty, universally seen as a victory for the young American nation, was signed on December 24, 1814, and Adams was posted to the English court for two years.

With the election of James Monroe to the presidency, Adams came home to become secretary of state. He played a major role in formulating the Monroe Doctrine, which warned European nations not to meddle in the affairs of the Western Hemisphere. During his eight years as secretary of state, he built a powerful and efficient American diplomatic service.
Bitter Fight for the White House

Four men campaigned for the presidency in 1824: former Secretary of War William H. Crawford of Georgia, House Speaker Henry Clay of Kentucky, Tennessee's General Andrew Jackson, and John Quincy Adams. Crawford won the Republican congressional caucus nomination. This was a landmark election, the first in which popular vote actually mattered. Sixteen states had moved to choose presidential electors by popular vote while six still left the choice up to the state legislature. After a fierce campaign, Jackson took a plurality in the popular vote, followed, in order, by Adams, Clay, and Crawford. In the electoral college, however, Jackson had thirty-two votes fewer than he needed to prevail. Acting under the Twelfth Amendment, the House of Representatives met to select the President. Speaker of the House Clay threw his support behind Adams and gave him the election by a single vote. Soon thereafter, Adams named Clay secretary of state. It was a bad beginning. Jackson resigned from the Senate and vowed to unseat Adams in 1828.

Adams believed strongly that it was constitutional and appropriate for the federal government to sponsor broad programs to improve American society and prosperity. He backed Henry Clay's proposed "American System," envisioning a national marketplace in which North and South, town and country were tied together by trade and exchange. To realize this vision, Adams proposed to Congress an ambitious program involving the construction of roads, canals, educational institutions, and other initiatives. Lacking congressional allies, Adams was unable to maneuver most of these programs into law. Congress also blocked many of his foreign initiatives. His support of the so-called Abominable Tariff of 1828, which protected American interests but caused higher prices, cost him popularity among the voters.

By 1828, Andrew Jackson had been campaigning for three years. He characterized Adams's election as a "corrupt bargain" typical of the elitist eastern "gamesters," such as Adams and Clay. Following a campaign marred by vicious personal attacks—Jackson's wife was called an adulteress)—Jackson won in a landslide.
(Source: http://millercenter.org/president/jqa...)


message 11: by Diane (new)

Diane (dianeoliva) | 4 comments Polk by Walter Borneman Walter Borneman
The only information I had about James Polk was from watching a Booknotes interview with John Seigenthaler James K. Polk 1845 - 1849 The American Presidents Series by John Seigenthaler I watched this show back in 2004 and remembered very little about it. You can watch the show at the Booknotes website if you are interested in seeing it.
In reading the current book I noticed that James K Polk was a descendant (on his mother's side) of the Scottish reformation leader John Knox. He had some leadership/activism in is genes.
I just joined Goodreads this month and I am enjoying this in depth discussion.


message 12: by Bryan (last edited Feb 08, 2011 08:00AM) (new)

Bryan Craig Thanks, Diane. Polk was probably aware of his ancestry and it might have helped to put him in the right frame of mind for public service.

Don't forget to link the author when you cite a book. Let me know if need any help on this. Be glad to oblige :-)

The book:
James K. Polk 1845 - 1849 The American Presidents Series by John Seigenthaler John Seigenthaler


message 13: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Feb 08, 2011 03:48PM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Bryan, what is your take on the reasons that Polk appeared to be politically dead: after 7 years in Congress , two terms as the Pelosi/Boehner of the House yet he had failed twice to win re-election as governor of Tennessee? (Introduction)

Why were people willing to write him off?


message 14: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
What do you think Henry Clay would have brought to the table that Polk did not?


message 15: by Bryan (last edited Feb 09, 2011 06:49AM) (new)

Bryan Craig Bentley wrote: "Bryan, what is your take on the reasons that Polk appeared to be politically dead: after 7 years in Congress , two terms as the Pelosi/Boehner of the House yet he had failed twice to win re-electio..."

Good question, Bentley. Tennessee politics was crazy with alliances moving around. The Democrats didn't always win behind Jackson's name. So, I think that played a role in why Polk lost twice. This leads to the reason why he might have been written off: double loser on his record. It is kind of like Nixon with his loss in 1960 and 1962 for California governor. They also underestimated him.

Maybe people felt Polk's years in Congress was yesterday's news.

Anyone else have some thoughts?


message 16: by Bryan (last edited Feb 09, 2011 06:52AM) (new)

Bryan Craig Bentley wrote: "What do you think Henry Clay would have brought to the table that Polk did not?"

I think in this part of Polk's life, Clay brought a national presence that Polk does not have. He is a renowned orator, leader of Congress in the War of 1812; I think he was considered a hero...not at Jackson's stature, but a known entity.

I still can't believe how many times Clay lost the presidential election. This also says something of his stature if the Whigs keep nominating him.


message 17: by Bryan (last edited Feb 09, 2011 06:54AM) (new)

Bryan Craig What are people's thoughts about Sarah, his wife?

I posted a biography on her (Part I and will add Part II a little later) in the glossary:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/4...


message 18: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Bryan wrote: "Bentley wrote: "What do you think Henry Clay would have brought to the table that Polk did not?"

I think in this part of Polk's life, Clay brought a national presence that Polk does not have. He ..."


Yes my feeling exactly; sometimes I think in these major elections, real heroes or very well known candidates do not win; because they are so well known that they also have a well developed group of adversaries who for no other reason than personal enmity or jealousy just do not want them to attain more. This gives a relative unknown quantity the ability to achieve a status that they only dreamed of.


message 19: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Bryan wrote: "What are people's thoughts about Sarah, his wife?

I posted a biography on her (Part I and will add Part II a little later) in the glossary:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/4..."


I really liked her and thought that she had interesting looks; not ugly at all; attractive in a quiet way. Also, for that time period, she was extremely well educated and everybody respected her. I thought she would have made a great wife and was very devoted to her husband.


message 20: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig Bentley wrote: "Bryan wrote: "Bentley wrote: "What do you think Henry Clay would have brought to the table that Polk did not?"

I think in this part of Polk's life, Clay brought a national presence that Polk does ..."


So true, Clay had a lot of baggage. Polk was a fresh face, which I think helps.


message 21: by Bryan (last edited Feb 09, 2011 07:52AM) (new)

Bryan Craig Bentley wrote: "I really liked her and thought that she had interesting looks; not ugly at all; attractive in a quiet way. Also, for that time period, she was extremely well educated...

I like her too. She seems to be highly intelligent, which increases the chances of a good partnership in a marriage, even for this time period.


message 22: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Here is an interesting tidbit; Polk was the only former Speaker of the House to ever become President.


message 23: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig Bentley wrote: "Here is an interesting tidbit; Polk was the only former Speaker of the House to ever become President."

I think our author brings this up. Career tip: if you want to get to the White House, don't be Speaker.


message 24: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Exactly what I was thinking (smile)


message 25: by Garret (new)

Garret (ggannuch) Bryan wrote: "What are your first impressions of Polk?"

Thanks for all the background posts. I don't really have much of an impression of Polk yet. The author has given us a quick background and fleshed out the main characters in his political life and also gives us a good sense of place and the times. But I don't feel like I have much of an impression of Polk yet. Certainly he is a man who is capable of going against his mentors when their ideals and agendas conflict with his own.


message 26: by Bryan (last edited Feb 10, 2011 06:33AM) (new)

Bryan Craig Garret wrote: "Bryan wrote: "What are your first impressions of Polk?"

Thanks for all the background posts. I don't really have much of an impression of Polk yet. The author has given us a quick background and..."


It is a quick survey at first, and I think he is quite capable. I think he learned fast at the state level and then the U.S. House.

I was impressed by Polk when during the 1828 bid, Polk wrote to Jackson saying not to respond to the accusations made about his marriage and his violent episodes. It was smart advice.

Interesting about your comment going against his mentors. He seem to be attached to Jackson, but I think he is his own man, though.


message 27: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
I think so too Bryan; many thought he owed everything to Jackson though but I think he was shrewd.


message 28: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig No doubt and I think we will see this more and more as he gets more confidence and experience on the national scene and in TN politics.


message 29: by Veronika (new)

Veronika  Sprague (veronikasprague) So far, I love Sarah. She seemed to be the perfect match for Polk's political aspirations and personality. I can't wait to see throughout the book how their relationship develops.


message 30: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig inkworknow wrote: "So far, I love Sarah. She seemed to be the perfect match for Polk's political aspirations and personality. I can't wait to see throughout the book how their relationship develops."

No doubt, inkworknow. I think they make a great team.


message 31: by Jeffrey (new)

Jeffrey Taylor (jatta97) | 100 comments As a person Polk is most impressive. Despite his late start in educational development, Polk showed his determination in what must have been primarily his self-education even at Chapel Hill, at the time when he was a student. Polk's dedication to his campaigns despite his physical limitations is another indicator of his "stuff". Not bad for a man who became the victim of the use of water as a beverage.


message 32: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig Quite true, Jeffrey. Can you image going through an operation to remove those stones?! Wow, he is made of pretty hard stuff, I say.

I also agree, Jeffrey, that Polk has a strong determination in what he wants out of life. Let's keep an eye on this trait, because it will pop up a lot in his future.


message 33: by Katy (new)

Katy (kathy_h) I picked up the book and have started the reading. Interesting so far; I agree that I really don't know much about Polk as a man or a president. Don't recall him being a big topic in any of my US History courses in either college or high school.


message 34: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig Kathy wrote: "I picked up the book and have started the reading. Interesting so far; I agree that I really don't know much about Polk as a man or a president. Don't recall him being a big topic in any of my US H..."

I think his claim to fame in text-books is Oregon and the Mexican War, but you feel this stuff never sinks in.


message 35: by Brian (new)

Brian (regulator) | 7 comments Bryan wrote: "Kathy wrote: "I picked up the book and have started the reading. Interesting so far; I agree that I really don't know much about Polk as a man or a president. Don't recall him being a big topic in ..."

I think we need to bring back dueling as a way to solve political disputes.


message 36: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig Brian wrote: "I think we need to bring back dueling..."

No doubt a ugly way to solve the disputes, and I'm not so sure they were solved after the duel. Jackson's reputation was damaged a little by his temper. I think it would have been easier to get votes if he learned to check his temper.


message 37: by Jeffrey (new)

Jeffrey Taylor (jatta97) | 100 comments Some duels ended with both parties firing into the air. A way to relieve stress. A mode of self-expression. Perhaps they were abused as children.

Jackson carried that bullet for the rest of his life and he always felt it presence. Bad choices have consequences.


message 38: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig Jeffrey wrote: "Some duels ended with both parties firing into the air. A way to relieve stress. A mode of self-expression. Perhaps they were abused as children.

Jackson carried that bullet for the rest of..."


So true, every action does have consequences.


message 39: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Bryan wrote: "Henry Clay:

Senator and a Representative from Kentucky; born in the district known as “the Slashes,” Hanover County, Va., April 12, 1777; attended the public schools; studied law in Richmond, Va.;..."


I have a question: how did Clay serve if he was younger than the constitutional age limit of 30 at the time?


message 40: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
I also thought this was interesting in the timeline:

1847- Tours New England, the only major trip of his presidency, June 2 - July 7th

I think that is so odd for a president never to go anywhere even in his own country (smile). Did anybody else find that odd?


message 41: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
John Catron who was on the Supreme Court (and frankly I know nothing about him) said to James K. Polk:

Strike boldly; it [is] your habit, and the means of your elevation.

- U.S. Supreme Court Justice John Catron to James K. Polk, September 27, 1837


I wondered why the author found this quote so significant and what was the relationship between Polk and Catron in 1837 and previously.


message 42: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Did anybody else find the description of the surgery performed on young Polk to be ghastly. I wondered if that was the source of his continued frailty throughout life and why he drank so much water. Because of the urinary stones or stone and maybe trying to flush out his kidneys, etc.


message 43: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 08, 2011 05:45PM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
Does anybody know why Sam Polk (James Polk's father) was arrested for public fighting? What was the disagreement about?

Also, Aaron V. Brown served as Polk's law partner and best man and the author stated that he would continue to stand by him through the next quarter century of political battles. What was the nature of their relationship moving forward and how did that occur? What political battles was the author referring to?


message 44: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
I found the following quote amazing considering what it is now:

"Perhaps most significant, only about a hundred thousand Americans had lived west of the Appalachian Mountains in 1790."

And that in only 30 years the population would mushroom to 2.2 million people - wow!


message 45: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
I was trying to find some images of Washington DC in 1825 when the author described it as being barely more than a village. There were only two dominant structures: the White House and the Capitol.

Hard to believe but just 11 years before the British had torched the Capitol in 1814. And look at the landscape around the Munger drawing!

Here is a likeness of the Capitol and the after effects of that event:



"Drawing shows the ruins of the U.S. Capitol following British attempts to burn the building; includes fire damage to the Senate and House wings, damaged colonnade in the House of Representatives shored up with firewood to prevent its collapse, and the shell of the rotunda with the facade and roof missing." "1 drawing on paper : ink and watercolor" "Historical context: George Munger's drawing, one of the most significant and compelling images of the early republic, reminds us how short-lived the history of the United States might have been. In the evening hours of August 24, 1814, during the second year of the War of 1812, British expeditionary forces under the command of Vice Admiral Sir Alexander Cockburn and Major General Robert Ross set fire to the unfinished Capitol Building in Washington, D.C. All the public buildings in the developing city, except the Patent Office Building, were put to the torch in retaliation for what the British perceived as excessive destruction by American forces the year before in York, capital of upper Canada. At the time of the British invasion, the unfinished Capitol building comprised two wings connected by a wooden causeway. This exceptional drawing, having descended in the Munger family, was purchased by the Library of Congress at the same time the White House purchased the companion view of the President's House."


message 46: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
This was the view in 1800:



c 1800 A View of the Capitol of Washington Watercolor by William Birch.


message 47: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 08, 2011 06:15PM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
The Capitol was placed on Jenkins Hill:



The Capitol of the United States crowns what was then Jenkins Hill in Washington, D.C., and houses the legislative branch of government, the House of Representatives & the Senate

c 1806 Benjamin Latrobe View of the Capitol of the United States.

Thomas Jefferson came up with the name Capitol Hill, consciously invoking the famous temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus on the Capitoline Hill in ancient Rome. The building would be America's Temple of Liberty.

Here is a view before the fire started by the British:




message 48: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 08, 2011 06:18PM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
This was in 1824 so we are getting closer to what it looked like when Polk rode into Washington late in the fall of 1825:



Watercolor Presented to Marquis de Lafayette to Commemorate His 1824 Visit to Capitol. Charles Burton's West Front of the Capitol of the United States. Metropolitan Museum of Art.


message 49: by Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief (last edited Apr 08, 2011 06:22PM) (new)

Bentley | 44291 comments Mod
This was amazing too - in 1828 - there were log cabins in front of the Capitol Building:

< img src= "http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CvDCiEFbNy8..." />

c 1828 Contrast Between the Temple of Liberty and Nearby Log Cabins by John Rubens Smith. [West Front of the Capitol]. Prints and Photographs Division Library of Congress.

Source: http://americangardenhistory.blogspot...


message 50: by Bryan (new)

Bryan Craig From what I understand, D.C. was a small southern town until WWII when the government exploded.


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