IRAQ/AFGHANISTAN: ONE BULLET AWAY - BR - 01/31/11 - 02/28/11

['Aussie Rick']

I like a lot of the humour in the book, like on page 183, chapter 21, when the first reporters that are to be embedded with the Marines arrive at Camp Matilda (good Australian name).

(view spoiler)[A bus groaned into Matilda and disgorged two dozen hard-bitten war correspondents. They wore beige vests and cargo pants. Most of them were male and bearded; they looked a lot like us. We had, after all, come of age in the same parts of the world. The press wasn't there to cover anything less than a full-blown attack.

"So who are you guys with?" Gunny Wynn and I stood in line for dinner, still more than a hundred yards from the lit triangle of the chow tent door. I turned in the darkness to look at the speaker. A foot shorter than me, he squinted up at us through thick-rimmed glasses. He held his tape recorder high, like an offering. "C'mon, what unit you with? Hometown? Name? Anything? I'm so excited to be here."
I would have ignored him but for the discomfort of standing together for another twenty minutes.
"First Reconnaissance Battalion," I said.
"Oooh. Recon. You guys are special, right?"
"Only to our mothers."
(hide spoiler)]

Great story eh!

[Tasha]

The humor is there, it is really great reading!!

[Terri]

Okay people, I am back. Hubby has gone back to work and now I can get in some more reading and posting on Goodreads. Yay. Oh, well, boo to hubby having to go back to work, but YAY for me having more time for reading.

I agree with Tasha and Rick. This book is written so well and so intelligently. I am loving it. I am really pleased I have more time on my hands for reading it as I have hated only being able to read two or three pages at a time.

[Terri]

Chapter 6
(view spoiler)[ I see the book Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield mentioned quite often in relation to military men and marines. It is mentioned heavily in One Bullet Away and in Generation Kill along with other shows and books I have read.
It must be like required reading for Marines.

I own it and was actually going to read it this month. Was still undecided though. Maybe I'll read it early March.

by Steven Pressfield (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 6
(view spoiler)[ I know that I was expecting the U.S terrorist attacks to come up in the book, but when they finally did, I was really caught offguard. I had just been reading about Jim and Nate outside of Darwin and laughing. Jim and Nate had stood by the Humvee talking instead of 'taking their chances on the ground' due to Australia having 9 out of ten of the world's deadliest snakes. And wallabies that will 'grab you with their little arms and kick your head off'.
I went from being amused by this in one paragraph to the boys sitting around having a beer over the page, and this is where they first heard that terrorists had flown planes into the Twin Towers.
I felt a sick feeling in my stomach as this brought back the day I had first heard of the attack, and had raced home to see those live images of the planes on tele.
As I said, I knew this was coming. Knew sooner or later Nate would cover that event from his perspective, but even though I knew it was coming, it was still a shock. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 8, pg 70
(view spoiler)[ Delighted to have Fick draw our attention to Rudy Reyes being on the ship with him (Fruity Rudy Reyes was profiled in Generation Kill). And that Nate's favourite time of day was early evening when he used to join Reyes' conditioning workouts on the highest outside deck. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 10, pg 84
(view spoiler)[Had to laugh at the Marines calling their martial arts workouts, semper fu (a play on semper fi). :-) (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 11, pg 96
(view spoiler)[ It was a thrill to see Tony Espera mentioned for the first time on this page. (Espera being another marine profiled in Generation Kill). (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 11
(view spoiler)[ I have just gotten to the part where they are sent to Camp Rhino in Afghanistan. Now I am excited to read on... (hide spoiler)]

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Folks, you seem to be doing so well on the buddy read. You may also like to give some thought about any other book you would like to read next using this same format.

[Terri]

I have been thinking about that too.
It had crossed my mind to offer up a Buddy Read on Gates of Fire. Except it is probably more my taste than the other folks reading One Bullet Away.
It is actually linked to the modern military and the marines as it is held in such high regard by them and seems to be required reading for soldiers. I want to see why.
I like Pressfield and have had the book on my shelf long before I realised it's appeal to soldiers. Now it seems to tie in with my recent RE-read of Generation Kill (see message 47 of this thread for book links) and One Bullet away.
bySteven Pressfield

['Aussie Rick']

Terri wrote: "Chapter 6
[spoilers removed]

Chapter 6
[spoilers removed]

Chapter 8, pg 70
[spoilers removed]

Chapter 10, pg 84
[spoilers removed]

Chapter 11, pg 96
[spoilers removed]

Chapter 11
[spoilers rem..."

Hi Terri,

Good to see that you've got some time to do some reading. I loved all your quotes from the book and like you was struck by the circumstances of Nate Fink and his men hearing about 9/11 while in Darwin.

[Tasha]

For those of you who have already read , (view spoiler)[ I am LOVING the fact that we are reunited with the men from Bravo from Generation Kill. It is really cool seeing the story now from a different humvee (Fick's perspective) during their tour in Iraq. I'm enjoying reading Fick's take on what happened during that time. In GK, it was evident that Fick questioned certain orders, was instrumental in stopping some orders and even refused to comply with some orders. Reading OBA, it is interesting now to see how his doubts about certain things began and how he processed these doubts. I'm in chapter 28 and he has already helped stop a danger close attack (order) on his troops and the doubt about the motives and orders of his superiors is brewing. You don't see how he personally (internally) processed these doubts in GK like you do in OBA so I'm really enjoying reading how this all unfolds for him from his perspective. I can't say enough what an amazing guy I think he is, really brave and very caring about his men. I would feel confident and proud to follow a man like that into combat. (hide spoiler)].

Generation Kill by Evan Wright

[Tasha]

Terri, I just may be tempted to read Gates of Fire ;)

by Steven Pressfield

You led me to several VERY great reads/series so, going on past experience, I'm sure to like this one too!

[Terri]

Tasha, I hope you keep seriously thinking about Gates of Fire, because it would be great to do another buddy read with you. :-)
We seem to enjoy the same things in these modern warfare books, maybe the Battle for Thermopylae will appeal to you too.
There must be something in Pressfield's book that gets these soldiers. I have heard before that even soldiers that don't like reading love Gates of Fire.
I am thinking that there is more to it than the emotion of reading about a small force of warriors going into a battle that they knew they had no chance of surviving.
There must be something in the way Pressfield has written it.

GK:
I am looking forward to seeing Fick's leadership in Iraq with the Recon Marines, due to the exact reasons you outlined below.
I have seen certain events through the eyes of Evan Wright from Rolling Stone magazine, now I want to see it through Nate Fick's eyes.
I can't wait. :-)

Rick,
Chapter 6;
(view spoiler)[ there was something stirring about knowing these guys were here in Australia when the attacks happened. I was proud that our fellow Aussie's (Darwinians) gave Fick and Jim a lift to their ship during the bedlam that followed the news. (hide spoiler)]

by Steven Pressfield by Evan Wright

[Terri]

Chapter 13 pg 117;
(view spoiler)[I found the few lines of a Rudyard Kipling poem that Staff Sergeant Marine quoted to Nate Fick to be quite interesting.
I had not heard of it so had to look it up. It is called The Young British Soldier. A bit hard to get the head around in places because Kipling has written it heavy with slang.
http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnL...
(hide spoiler)]

['Aussie Rick']

Hi Terri, its a classic line oft quoted by many military men when referring to Afghanistan! I will have to check out "Gates of Fire", I don't read very much fiction now-a-days but this may tempt me as well :)

by Steven Pressfield

[Tasha]

Chapter 30
(view spoiler)[This thought by Fick impacted me, made me really appreciate his position as platoon commander when discussing the mission towards Muwaffiqiya. "Gunny Wynn's priority as platoon sergeant, first and always, was the safety of his men. Mine, as platoon commander, was accomplishing our mission. true, each of us cared about both responsibilities, but when the bullets were flying, one goal had to take precedence....Together, though, we had a symbiosis that combined my aggressiveness with his wisdom."

And then later after the mission was over and the ambush they had been involved in as the ambushees (in the same chapter), "I walked a fine line. As an officer, I couldn't badmouth decisions the way a lance corporal could." "At the same time, though, to smile in the face of stupidity and say something about liberating the Iraqi people or living up to the example of Iwo Jima and Hue City would neuter me in the eyes of my men. Men shrink in combat to little circles of trust: us versus them. A platoon who puts it's commander in the 'them' category is a dangerous place to be." "I learned to rely on moral authority much more than on legal authority."
This botched mission, in the dark to an unknown place, to secure Muwaffiqiya for the rest of the battalion, with the loss of one of his platoon leaders and then the officers (who weren't even in the battle) taking pictures! All this seems to be a real turning point for Fick. I can't wait to read on. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 31
(view spoiler)[the sleep and food deprevation is astonishing. I can agree that it is expected in these situations, but man, I don't even know how they can effectively function under these conditions!! The last paragraph in this chapter shows how Fick answered questions and commanded orders that he didn't even realize he was doing, he thought he was dreaming!! (hide spoiler)]

Oh, and one more thing, reading this just before falling asleep is creating a hazard to my sleeping! I keep dreaming about military things, war and soldiers! Ok, maybe the soldiers part isn't so bad ;) but the other stuff is tough to sleep thru. Anyone else sharing this experience? Along this line though, it really makes me feel for the men/women who really went thru wars. Their dreams and post-traumatic stress are much more real and intense...my dreams are just fluff compared to what they experience during and after war. I used to work in the mental health field as a therapist and had several clients who had been vets. I wish now that I had understood more of their experience. These books mentioned/read in this buddy read have really enlightened me.

[Bryan]

I liked Staff Sergeant Marine (great name). Fick was smart in letting Marine guide him through his first command.

[Tasha]

fick is definitely a smart guy, really wanting to be a great leader so learning from those he feels are good leaders. I love that about him.

[Terri]

And now I am catching up to you Tash, :-) , I can really see the leadership qualities he held in Iraq, coming through in these early days and I can see why some of them came about.
Captain Whitmore? I think I spelled that right. (I haven't the book at hand so can't reference it). Was the one to train Fick to question orders. Did he see the beginnings of a First Recon officer in Fick back in the beginning? After all, if any officer in the Marines has the freedom to question orders - to a small degree - it is a First Recon marine.

Rick, please give Gates of Fire some consideration. It might help push Tasha into reading it if more than one reads it with me..lol..:-) and more than one is all the more interesting too.
No, i all seriousness, I don't want you to read it just so Tasha will join us. I would just like some people to read this with. Especially people who have an interest in military books.
I think it would be interesting to see how Pressfield made this book so relevant to the modern soldier.
And although it is fiction, it is based on a true story/battle, so...it's kind of not toooooo far off a non fiction if you think about it...lol! :-D

Bryan, I like Staff Sergeant Marine too. He is very witty and droll. :-)

by Steven Pressfield

['Aussie Rick']

Hi Terri, I love reading about the early battles of Antiquity and love accounts of the Battle of Thermopylae so I will try and find a copy of the book and have a browse through it to see if it grabs me :)

In regards to Nate Fick question suspect orders I found the following account on page 339, chapter 36, quite interesting and shows what can happen if you let a bad order or decision sit un-challenged.

(view spoiler)[This is about the search of the suspect amusement park that was cut short after a request for an extension:

"The next morning, another recon platoon was diverted from its mission and found dozens of surface-to-air missiles in the buildings we'd bypassed. There were signs that others had been removed, possibly the night after we were in the park. Over the coming months, when insurgents downed Army helicopters, killing dozens of soldiers, I couldn't help but wonder if the weapons had come from the cache at the amusement park. Treating Suhar had been a costly decision. I was learning that the choices in war are rarely between good and bad, but rather between bad and worse. (hide spoiler)]

Although in this case Fick had to make a decision between an operational order and a humanitarian and moral necessity, which was the correct decision?

[Terri]

I am still on Chapter 17. I'll have to wait for a bit before I can read your spoiler. :-)

['Aussie Rick']

Hi Terri, sorry about that, but I bet your enjoying the book and won't take long to get there!

[Terri]

You got that right. :-) I am definitely getting some pages under my belt now.

[Tom]

The book Gates of Fire: An Epic Novel of the Battle of Thermopylae is on the Marine reading list, I imagine it is part of thier culture.

by Steven Pressfield

[Tasha]

Aussie Rick, I read that part where you qoute that spoiler from page 339. (view spoiler)[you can feel Nate's struggle with wanting to help that girl and his desperation to get that mission done before sunset. His morality won out as he couldn't leave her behind. And then he forever wondered about what they didn't get to check. (hide spoiler)].

I have finished! Kind of sad to let it go because I really enjoyed getting to know Fick and hearing his story.

(view spoiler)[The last chapter, the afterward, was emotional reading, for me. The whole chapter was heart-felt and I wanted to find something to highlight and discuss, but the entire ending was emotional. I feel sad for the struggle he now has and hope that since writing this book some of it has dissipated, but I can't imagine how. His experiences, combined with his humanity, will probably nag him for the rest if his life.

His visit to Antiem, with his struggle to justify the good along with the bad, left me with a smile. In trying to resolve his time in war he says:"I took sixty-five men to war and brought sixty-five home. I gave them everything I had. Together, we passed the test. Fear didn't beat us. I hope life improves for the people of Afghanistan and Iraq, but that's not why we did it. We fought for each other. I am proud." (hide spoiler)].

One more thought I had about the rest of the platoon (view spoiler)[after Fick decided to leave the marines and the rest of the platoon went back to Iraq with a new leader. I just wonder how those men felt after having had such great leadership in Fick, they all survived and made it back home, and then having to return to Iraq with a new leader. I know they all worked well together and trusted each other, but they had to "trust" this new leader somehow. I wonder if Morel was more of a "moral authority" leader or more of a "legal authority" leader.

The camaraderie of these men is astounding. It is obvious that they develop this out there, but it still impresses me. (hide spoiler)]

Great story, so glad it was told and that I had the chance to read it!!

['Aussie Rick']

Hi Tasha, I felt the same way when I finished the book, that's why I went back and started to re-watch the DVD "Generation Kill" so I could sort of re-connect with the characters and get a different perspective of Nate Fink, as he was seen by his platoon members. Its quite interesting watching the DVD again having read the book, very enjoyable.

[Terri]

Gosh, how weird is it to get to a stage in the book where you are suddenly reading about Ferrando (Godfather), Colbert, Pappy etc... it is very surreal to have these guys enter the picture in another book. It is as if they should belong in Generation Kill.

It was a weird moment when they all appeared along with their Humvees and I am suddenly reading 'Hitman One this is Hitman Two' and all the other familiar call signs..

And yes..Fick was right
Chapter 18
(view spoiler)[ Mattis' call sign 'Chaos' is very cool. The coolest call sign, especially for a man of such rank. If I ever needed a call sign, I was see if that was taken :-) (hide spoiler)]

Up to Chapter 19 (if you haven't read 17 and 18 do not read)
(view spoiler)[ The Recon training nearly made ME panic it was so hardcore. The swimming training that Fick did..wow..that was some pretty serious stuff. They nearly kill these guys in an effort to condition them to heightened levels of fear and panic.
And the SERE training they did. Being dropped into the (fake) Bosnian countryside. There is no way in Hell I would have survived being shoved in the two foot deep, two foot wide timber coffin. That would have broken my mind. Especially on the heels of being confined in the tiny block room where you can hardly move out of a crouch. *shudder* (hide spoiler)]

[Terri]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Hi Tasha, I felt the same way when I finished the book, that's why I went back and started to re-watch the DVD "Generation Kill" so I could sort of re-connect with the characters and get a differen..."

The guy that played Fick in the mini series was terrific in his role.
Whilst the real Fick and the fake Fick do not resemble each other, I expect their temperaments and presence, as depicted in the mini series, were bang on the money.

P.S

Tom,
If you are still out there?
Would you consider reading Gates of Fire with us here in The History Book Club?


by Steven Pressfield by Evan Wright

[Tom]

by Steven Pressfield

Does not fit into my normal reading - but i am curious and probably going to read it at some point. Hopefully I will be able to find the time to read it with you, trying to get a copy to check it out.

[Terri]

Tom
(and anyone else thinking of joining the buddy read)

Going to post the buddy read to start on March 1st and go two weeks. Hope you can fit it in, Tom.

[Terri]

I hate it when you read a book in bed at night and you see all these points that you want to share on this thread....and then by morning, as I bring the book to the laptop, I can't remember what those points were....
I'll try and remember though..

Chapter 26 and don't read if you haven't read Generation Kill as this is a comment relating the same event in the two different books;
(view spoiler)[I found it interesting that when Fick questioned the 'danger close' orders, that he states that it was the other end that decided to can the order.
In GK, Evan Wright writes that the reason the order was canned was because Encino Man (unamed CO in One Bullet Away) didn't use the right command codes for such a mission.
In Fick's account of the incident, Captain Whitmor was in the command centre when the call for a mission came in and he personally axed the order because he saw how ridiculous it was.

Interesting to read these two differing accounts of the danger close incident. (hide spoiler)]

[Terri]

Chapter 26;
(view spoiler)[. wowzers. Hold onto your seats for riding through Al Gharraf. That was nerve wracking. It was nerve wracking when I first read about it in Generation Kill, but for some reason, I found Nate Fick's account more exhilarating.
Maybe it was because I have been in Colbert's vehicle with him as Walt goes down. And as they exit the town and sink in the sabka.
Of course, I don't mean literally 'in the vehicle' hehe. I am not bonkers. I mean that when you read a book, a good author has you 'there' like a spectator. Having been a spectator/fly on the wall, in Colbert's vehicle in GK and now to be a spectator at the back of the line in front of Jacks and his mean grenade gun. Phew, what a ride.
If anybody buddy reading with us hasn't read Generation Kill then I highly recommend that you do. The two different perspectives is fantastic insight.
>Evan Wright

(hide spoiler)]

[Tasha]

Terri, I knew something was off with that Danger Close order from one book to the other but I wasn't sure exactly what it was, I just knew the account seemed different from what I remembered from GK. Thanks for clarifying it! You are always good for the details :)

[Terri]

That's me, 'Detail Girl'. :-D

You'll just have to watch the mini series all over again won't you.

[Tasha]

Hahaha...

[Terri]

Chapter 27 page 242-243;
(view spoiler)[
This quote is from the end of chapter 27. They have stormed the airfield and shot up the kids herding camels. The kids were evacuated to RCT-1's field hospital. Fick has gathered his platoon together to talk to them about the incident.
quote;

"First, we made a mistake this morning,"......
"Second, I need you to compartmentalize today." I told the guys to tuck the experience away in their brains, way back there with their wives and their girlfreinds and their dogs. It wouldn't help them survive tomorrow. I needed every one of them to learn from it and put it away.
"Third, no second-guessing and armchair-quarterbacking." We made fast decisions all the time. Sometimes we were right, and sometimes we were wrong. We couldn't hesitate tomorrow because of a mistake today. That could get us killed. Come what may, we were a team, and we'd stay a team.

Sometimes, Lt Nate Fick is so intelligent and such an incredible leader, that it takes my breath away. I really felt that speech. And I found the words I underlined to be very poignant. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 27, page 243;
(view spoiler)[
Same page as the speech in my previous spoiler. Nate has talked to the men about the incident and has ended up alone in his humvee;

The events of the day overcame me all at once, and I struggled to breathe without crying.
As darkness fell over Qalat Sukkar, I sat alone in the dim green light of the radios. I felt sick for the shepherd boys, for the girl in the blue dress, and for all the innocent people who surely lived in Nasiriyah, Ar Rifa, and the other towns this war would consume. I hurt for my Marines, goodhearted guys who'd bear these burdens for the rest of their lives. And I mourned for myself. Not in self-pity, but for the kid who'd come to Iraq. He was gone. I did all this in the dark, away from the platoon, because combat command is the loneliest job in the world.

My heart wept for Nate Fick as I read this.
And you know, sometimes I can't help being a woman, a nurturer. I wanted to climb into that humvee cab with Lt Nate Fick and hold his hand or hold him tight. I felt like, if I was there, I would need to nurture and console him.
Of course, you boys who are reading this will know that there is no place in war for the nurturing instinct of women. So, I would have to fight down my urge to hug Fick, and instead, climb into that cab, give him a pat on the arm, and a twinkie from my MRE. :-)
(hide spoiler)]

[Terri]

And I forgot to mention this bit from Chapter 27, pg 237;
(view spoiler)[
quote;

An Air Force A-10 Thunderbolt attack jet stood on a wingtip, its pilot looking down at us. He flashed over so low I could smell his exhaust.

What a cool visual Fick gave us there. (hide spoiler)]

[Terri]

Quote Tasha from a few posts back;
Tasha wrote: "Oh, and one more thing, reading this just before falling asleep is creating a hazard to my sleeping! I keep dreaming about military things, war and soldiers! Ok, maybe the soldiers part isn't so bad ;) but the other stuff is tough to sleep thru. Anyone else sharing this experience? Along this line though, it really makes me feel for the men/women who really went thru wars. "

I had a couple military dreams the other night after reading OBA for far too long before going to bed. I would like to say that like your dreams, soldiers were there and they were a plus side to the dreams..but it was not one of those sort of dreams. *wink* It was actually quite a disturbing dream about getting shot at by the Iraqis and having nowhere to hide.
I just kept running and trying to hide in the sand. :-( Lucky the b#$t%$ds weren't a very good shot and I am damn fast at digging holes.

['Aussie Rick']

Terri wrote: "Chapter 27 page 242-243;

This quote is from the end of chapter 27. They have stormed the airfield and shot up the kids herding camels. The kids were evacuated to RCT-1's field hospital. Fick has g..."

Twinkie's can solve a lot of problems! Well put Terri, I enjoyed those last few posts and its been interesting in seeing what things you and Tasha pick up on that we guys miss, very instructive!

[Terri]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Twinkie's can solve a lot of problems! ..."

As can hugs. :-)

[Tasha]

Terri, for some reason I missed your full post on message 83, specifically your spoiler regarding chapter 27, page 243. That was one of the times I really felt for Fick too. Away from his men, he probably would have loved a comforting hug, but I think your pat on the arm and the twinkle would have done wonders! His job really was a lonely place to be.

As a woman, I totally get your need to nurture which makes me think just now how it is for women fighting out there. Does anyone know of any accounts written by women in this area?

[Terri]

I wonder too if there are any military female accounts out there. And I don't mean the kind of female that's going to stick her foot on a pile of naked Iraqi's and stick her thumb in the air.
Women warriors. Noble women warriors.

P.S I am guessing that you had a typo before...and that you didn't think I wanted to give LT Fick a pat on the arm and a 'twinkle'.
I was thinking a little less twinkle and a little more cream filled baked goods.
Probably not an appropriate place for 'twinkle'.

[Tasha]

Hahaha, twinkle!! What the h*#% would a twinkle even be?! I write from an iPad and it is constantly auto correcting, often wrongly if I don't do a thorough check, so yes, definitely meant twinkie. (it just did it again, I had to fix it...annoying).

['Aussie Rick']

Hi Terri,

Here are two books that may interest you covering females serving in the US armed forces:

by Kayla Williams
Review:
"Williams’s war memoir is just one in a string that originated from recent U.S.-led forays into the Middle East, and its uniqueness comes from its female perspective. Critics agree that Love My Rifle is no deep piece of literature. Instead, it’s a shocking, on-the-ground view of one military woman’s experience in Iraq. Williams spares no details about the stress of combat, the questionable treatment of Iraqi prisoners, and her scathing opinion of the U.S. administration, though she never explains why she enlisted in the first place. As one of only 15 percent of women employed by the Army, Williams possibly overplays the sexual harassment she suffered—or so claim a few of the more suspect male reviewers. But the story’s not over: Williams can be called back to duty any time." - Bookmarks Magazine

by Kirsten Holmstedt
Review:
"Holmstedt started studying the experience of women marines when she lived near Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. Her research became a master's thesis in creative writing and the most up-to-date discussion of women in the current war. Unblushingly in favor of women in combat, she doesn't whitewash their experiences or exaggerate their achievements. Their male colleagues aren't universally accepting, but many of them admit that the women are performing effectively; since 20 percent of the troops currently in Iraq are women, they must. Following the tradition of American soldiers before them, they say that they are "just doing the job." That is, they are flying F-18s into enemy ground fire, driving Hummers and trucks that may be ambushed at any moment, and playing invaluable roles in intelligence operations and in the nation building that is one of the more positive aspects of a seemingly interminable and frustrating conflict. Nearly 500 female soldiers have been killed or wounded in Iraq. Invaluable as well as readable." - Booklist

[Terri]

Tasha,
I figured a 'twinkle' may involve a handful of fairy dust.

Thanks for those books Aussie Rick,
I had no idea that there was anything like them out there. I am definitely going to try and find these books for reading in the coming months. (Not March and April though, I 'spects they will be full up). :-)

P.S I am dying from jealousy of people who own iPads. I want one so bad it hurts.

[Tasha]

Thanks for those book recommendations. I'm going to look them up too.

[Terri]

I am really getting some pages read today. It is raining and I have nothing much to do but read. I am on calving watch. Have some cattle in front paddock due to calve. One dropped today, but I can watch them from the veranda with binoculars.

A real note of interest for me here;
Chapter 30;
(view spoiler)[
back at the start of this thread. My first spoilers included some remarks about this quote from Chapter 3;

Marine's need to know one another's jobs. "That includes you and your platoon sergeant," he added. A new lieutenant and his enlisted second in command had to share their responsibilities. Too often, Fanning said, platoon commanders focused on the mission while platoon sergeants focused on troop welfare. "Each of you has to do both".
'From that afternoon on, I accepted the rules and lived by them.

Imagine, then, my surprise when I read this in Chapter 30, page 265;

Gunny Wynn as platoon sergeant, first and always, was the safety of his men. Mine, as platoon commander, was accomplishing our missions. True, each of us cared about both responsibilities, but when the bullets were flying, one goal had to take precedence. Leadership instructors who said naively that the two could coexist had never been in a gunfight. Each of us, on his own, would probably have fallen victim to natural impulses. Together though, we had a symbiosis that combined my aggressiveness with his wisdom.

There you are. Proof that the man that trained to be a soldier back in the States, was becoming a different man on the battlefields of Iraq.
He was evolving beyond his training, to become a leader of his own making. (hide spoiler)]

[Tasha]

Terri, I noticed that second qoute you wrote about above regarding his understanding what it really meant to be a leader in this (any) war. It stood out for me too.

[Terri]

Not much further for me now. Only 20 pages to go.

I can't remember the last time it took me this long to read a book. I am used to reading between 70 and 100 pages a day. That usually translates to one book every 3 1/2 to 4 days.
With One Bullet Away I have been a bit short on time and it has taken me about 4 weeks. Crazy. :-D

[Bryan]

I was interested in Fick's reaction and reasons relating to Tora Bora. So I looked at:

George Tenet

Donald Rumsfeld

They both confirm that Tommy Franks did not think it was worth the cost to bring in U.S. troops in such a remote and dangerous region for the possibility that Osama Bin Laden was there.

[Terri]

Bryan wrote: "I was interested in Fick's reaction and reasons relating to Tora Bora. So I looked at:

..."

I can only imagine the overwelming feelings the Marines had at the thought of going into Tora Bora. Hostile and dangerous though it was, I could understand Fick's disappointment.

[Terri]

Well, I have finished. But if anyone is still reading the book please continue to comment on the thread. I and others will always come back to chat with you all about the book.

Don't read unless you have finished the book;
(view spoiler)[
I have a few random comments about the book and Fick's story.
In comparison with the story told in Generation Kill:-

NO mention of Captain America (nickname of a dangerously unstable Captain profiled in Generation Kill).
I guess Fick thought that man had copped enough as a result of Generation Kill. To mention his behaviour in this book would be like kicking a man when he was down.

Ferrando. I found it interesting that Fick protected Ferrando from negativity in this book.
The platoons disgruntlement with Ferrando's leadership was not reflected in any way in One Bullet Away. In fact, Fick spoke of him with only respect.
I think perhaps, however, that he may have been protecting Ferrando. On one occasion he told a completely opposing story to Evan Wright.
When the camel herder kids were shot by Trombley as they approached the airfield.
Evac was requested for the boys and the request was denied. Fick tells the story that Ferrando was asleep and it was Major Bellini (spelling wrong I know)..that denied the evac request as acting command while Ferrando was sleeping. He said he "wouldn't wake Ferrando up for this".
Fick states that when Ferrando woke up he immediately requested the evac.
As Evan Wright tells it. Ferrando personally declined the request repeatedly and only gave up when he saw how the boys sufferd.
So, which story is true?
Well, considering Godfather/Ferrando spoke to Evan Wright face to face about the incident and explained why he had at first declined the evac request, then I think perhaps there was more grounding in Wright's telling of the incident than Fick's.
When I read the One Bullet Away account of this incident, that is when I realised that Ferrando's integrity was, to some extent, being protected by Nathaniel Fick.

Okay, that's all for my Generation Kill comparisons.

To the rest;
In the end. I realised a few things about Fick that hadn't come across during his service.
Perhaps he was too emotional to be an officer.
He was well loved by his men and he was a good leader. That is true. But could this man have mentally survived the loss of one life under his leadership?
I know that in the closing of this book, Fick explained that he feared losing men and that was a contributing factor of his retirement from the marines.
But what would have happened in the field if he had lost one man? Or more? Would he have fallen apart on his men in the field? Would the platoon's morale have suffered?
I really think that he may have fallen apart.
Look how he suffered when Patrick got shot in the foot.
Not a serious or life threatening wound, and yet Fick agonised to an extreme over it.
What would have happened had there been a serious casualty or death?
I am not sure that he was as great an officer as I first assumed. A great man, yes. There is no doubt in my eyes that Fick is a great man and shows intelligent leadership abilities. But there were chinks in his ability as an officer. And I think he knew this.
Aren't the best leaders and officers the one's that can absorb loss while maintaining strength of will? Not take things so personally.
Rationalise, not internalise?
Humanise and then dehumanise when it was a requirement for his emotional survival?

When Fick returned home he fell apart. The strain and stress of his short deployment had torn his emotional fabric so asunder that for a long time he could not function.
What would have been his state of mind if he had done a full tour? Or more than one? What would have been his state of mind if he had lost men or had men seriously harmed.
I think he knew he could not cope with that and so he retires. A great man still. A warrior still. Intact still.
(hide spoiler)]

['Aussie Rick']

You have presented some very interesting and valid comments in your final summary Terri. I think Fick would still have been able to operate if his platoon suffered casualties just due to the fact that that is what his training was all about, plus he had the support of some very good NCO's. However would he have been the same leader and person, that is another question.