Outlander Series discussion
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A Breath of Snow and Ashes
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Mrsbooks
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May 05, 2014 05:34PM
Keep reading. You won't be disappointed. It does resolve itself. :)
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The "no matter where they are" makes me worried.
Well, I am about 12% through this one, man there is alot going on! Its been great! I must say, my my Roger and Bree keep getting sexier all the time. In FC it was a bunch of Jem crying and ruining the moment(s) for Rog and Bree but now they are getting more alone time. I am really seeing their relationship grow stronger now.Makes me happy for Roger and Bree.
Oh god, I just got to the part where Jamie rescued Claire. My god that was so beautifully written, I was just enthralled. I got to see a side of Jamie I never knew, the warrior Jamie. I was just amazed, I cried the whole time.
gertt wrote: "Vanessa Eden wrote: "Oh god, I just got to the part where Jamie rescued Claire. My god that was so beautifully written, I was just enthralled. I got to see a side of Jamie I never knew, the warrio..."Wouldn't you?
I don't think it was out of character. I see it as a more primitive protective male thing. Rogers wife was raped and now his mother in law. What did you want Roger to do? Try and talk Jamie down?
Gertt is right. First, she never said that she was upset that Roger did it. Just that she was surprised because he wasn't born and raised in a time where crime was handled with execution. He was raised in a world where the police were called and a different kind of justice was served.Also, Roger himself was affected by his actions at that point. Because it was out of character and shook him how easily he could be led by his baser instincts. It's good, because that's how you survived back then, especially living in the wild.
When I read the account I had the distinct impression that Roger was uncomfortable with doing and didn't want to but also felt the necessity of it. Its been a while though since I read it.
I'm just going to put this question here because I haven't read Moby yet and I don't want to happen upon spoilers in those threads. But why is it called Moby? WIMOHB or WOHB? There are various different acronyms to use but MOBY doesn't make sense to me.
I think she shortened WIMOHB to MOHB and it just became phonetically MOH-B... MOBY. I know she blogged about it... let me see if I can find her explanation.
I hate to say it but I am annoyed with Fergus.I understand that he was afraid for Henri-Christian because he didn't know what kind of life he would have. Also, it brought him unwanted memories of France. I feel sorry for him, I really do but I feel worse for Marsali.
I just feel that it was unfair for Fergus to leave her with a new baby (with deformities) and a house full of babes at home while he mourned.
He told Claire he felt useless and yet he was needed. I am sure that he was in a deep depression and I can't blame him, but his family and wife needed him.
I'm sure Marsali was having a hard time as well and he made it no better.
I really feel bad for the guy, but I feel annoyed as well.
Oh, and poor Ian and his baby. That was so sad and so beautifully written!
It continues to drive me mad that Bree with all her engineering thinking doesn't once think of making a handle to attach to a tool that Fergus can use his hook with! Rake, hand plow, broom... They all just need an attachment in the middle with a hole in it!
MJ wrote: "It continues to drive me mad that Bree with all her engineering thinking doesn't once think of making a handle to attach to a tool that Fergus can use his hook with! Rake, hand plow, broom... They..."That's a good point. Also, Claire is a doctor and certainly she could have used some therapy for him as well as make tools for him to better function in his activities of daily living. I know that's more of a physical therapy thing but as a nurse, which she was, she had knowledge of that.
And Claire had firsthand experience with Shellshock/PTSD from the war. Not to mention the men she must have worked with who had lost limbs. It just bugs me!
I agree Fergus could have done more. And slot of what you said about Jamies 'debt' to him and male mind set is in play too. But I understand how he went from being fairly vital to Jamies 'business' in a city environment to feeling relatively useless in a farming one. Claire was also limited... I guess other than her he al knowledge (if she had anything relevant at the time - basics like St Johns Wart for moods and the like), she was left with counseling... Which wasn't really the done thing in either time. But that she didn't attempt something was always a bit strange to me. PTSD had been around forever really under different names (soldiers heart, irritable heart, Shellshock - during WWII), she def would have had patients suffering from it in the war, even if we count out the likelihood of her stumbling across any when she became a dr. Not saying she would have fixed the problem or even helped 'that much'... but she didn't try anything. Also, given what we know of her thru the series, it struck me as odd that she never thought of trying to find a way to help him with tools etc... Even if only to suggest it to Bree of Jamie. When BJR broke Jamies hand, first thing she did was hand him a 'physio' ball made of leather strips... But she never gave a second thought to anything like that after she'd been a dr for 20 years?
Made for a better story with Fergus flipping out, and not everyone's perfect... Not even fav characters... But it just seemed too far out of character for it to have never come up.
gertt wrote: "Claire had to be careful of what she did medically. She was already considered a 'witch' because she was different. If she did anything that was not obviously known at the time, she could have bee..."She made ether and penicillin; I don't think making a few tools with small adjustments would cause anymore attention to come to her than she already had.
But I agree, Fergus was more urban and farm life wasn't really his forte. I really do think he cared for Marsali, but couldn't get past his pride to be there for her.
I think Claire making people fall asleep and cutting them open while alive through surgery is definitely drawing attention to herself. If she can do that, she can help Fergus. What I don't agree with, and yes, I understand that times are different, its just that if it were me, I would be unable to not speak to Fergus about growing up and being a man and helping his wife. He considered those things to be women's work and beneath him and where he couldn't do the actual "men's work" because of his hand, his wife got stuck doing it all. I would have unleashed a world of verbal pain onto him. I'd have been unable to contain myself.
This is of course after unsuccessfully trying to reason with him.
Mrsbooks wrote: "I think Claire making people fall asleep and cutting them open while a live through surgery is definitely drawing attention to herself. If she can do that, she can help Fergus. What I don't agree..."
Amen, sister.
I think LJG sent Claire the stuff to MAKE the ether herself. Wasn't something that was available then... But he also sent Bree the stuff to help her make matches too... So I may be confusing the two.
She made 'super alcohol' from the stuff on the ship that was almost killing the alcoholics who couldn't leave it alone. I Just found the bit in the book... Chapter 20, search PHLOGISTON LJG sends her vitriol like you said, but Claire said it will be ether when she's finished with it.
MJ wrote: "She made 'super alcohol' from the stuff on the ship that was almost killing the alcoholics who couldn't leave it alone. I Just found the bit in the book... Chapter 20, search PHLOGISTON LJG sends..."
Haha, yeah I would...which is my point I guess, reading it made me frustrated. I know Claire talked to Jamie to talk with Fergus but I can't remember if that was about not helping his wife or running away after the birth of his deformed son and facing that. Either way I wouldn't have kept my mouth shut. Not with Fergus.
MJ wrote: "She made 'super alcohol' from the stuff on the ship that was almost killing the alcoholics who couldn't leave it alone. I Just found the bit in the book... Chapter 20, search PHLOGISTON LJG sends..."
Thank you for clearing that up.
I think, in Claire's defense and being in the medical field; she knew Fergus would be a non compliant patient because he was a non compliant husband and was always leaving Marsali alone to fight her own battles: when you have a non compliant patient you simply leave them to their own decisions and move on to take care of a patient who needs and wants your care. She was the doctor of many patients with little to no help and simply couldn't waste time on a patient, I.e. Fergus, who doesn't want help anyway.
I agree 100% Vanessa.What was up with Jamie letting Fergus getting away with his laziness,Jamie was always quick to chew anyone else out he saw acting like a jerk-I really never cared much for Fergus but he would probably be a pretty scary character in the 1700s to any women that he felt threatened him.
Kathy Anne wrote: "I agree 100% Vanessa.What was up with Jamie letting Fergus getting away with his laziness,Jamie was always quick to chew anyone else out he saw acting like a jerk-I really never cared much for Ferg..."I kinda wondered why Jamie didn't say more. Marsali was after all, his step daughter. I am sure if Roger was acting like that Jamie would chew him out. I also was a little annoyed with Ian when he told Marsali that Fergus was grieving and he would come back; like him grieving was a good enough excuse to skip out on his family. Marsali was grieving too, but she couldn't allow herself to go through the process of grieving because her husband skipped out on her and she had to hold down everything. What good is he to her besides sucking her nipples when she was in labor. Screw that!
gertt wrote: "I think Jamie had a protective attitude with Fergus because 1) Fergus was used by BJR the same as Jamie and 2) he gave his hand for Jamie's safety.I never thought of Fergus as being scary or a th..."
I think that is the heart break of it all. We know the good in him and the pain. We also can see the love Marsali and Fergus have and that's what makes it hard to hate him.
Vanessa Eden wrote: "Kathy Anne wrote: "I agree 100% Vanessa.What was up with Jamie letting Fergus getting away with his laziness,Jamie was always quick to chew anyone else out he saw acting like a jerk-I really never ..."Yes this!
And when I say I would have to speak with Fergus, I wouldn't feel the need as a paitent/doctor. I would feel the need as a friend, to both of them.
I get why Jamie was protective and lenient with Fergus. But I also feel it was a sign of the times. If his wife had done those things it would have been a whole different story.
gertt wrote: "And do you think it would have done any good to speak to Fergus? Claire was very outspoken, I'm sure if she felt it would help she would have confronted Fergus or asked Jamie to. And, confronti..."
Doesn't change what I would have done. Those out comes are what if's and possibilities. No one actually knows what would have happened if Fergus was confronted with a bunch of common sense because Diana didn't write it that way. Knowing myself well and because I loved the 2 of them, I would have taken the chance and hope for a good outcome.
Fergus doesn't seem unreasonable. He just seems like a typical man back then. He didn't look at his wife's needs as those that should come before or at least equal to his own.
I was thinking of it more as 'talk' than 'confront' Fergus. He was struggling with a lot... For a long time. Offering him a not judgmental listener (not to mention modern ear - although granted, 50/60's aren't exactly know for their psychological leaps and bounds), might have helped him make some adjustments. Even though he wasn't exactly a 'metro man' of the times. Been a while since I read it, but aren't the only things we hear about is 'he's being an unhelpful sulk' and 'Jamie found him ready to do harm'? There just didn't seem to be any effort into addressing the problem. And I get the whole 'mans family's his own business thing', but Claire and Bree rearly held their tounge... And I can't imaging with all Claire's experience that she wouldn't have tried at least once or twice. Even to give Marsali some pointers or ideas to raise herself if they didn't want to bring it up with Fergus themselves. Again, I do realise that 21st century psychological thinking is interfering with my opinions... but SOMETHING should/would have been done in their relatively tight little group.
At times it doesn't feel like Claire and Bree are from the future at all lol.
gertt wrote: "Vanessa Eden wrote: "I think, in Claire's defense and being in the medical field; she knew Fergus would be a non compliant patient because he was a non compliant husband and was always leaving Mar..."I believe Fergus loves his family and would do more if he did have two working limbs. I don't think he has a mean bone in his body. I think that he just doesn't know how to handle his feelings since he did not have encouragement when he was young until Jaime. He truly liked cities and felt good about himself when he was in the cities. Marsali married him sooner or later she would have figured out that Fergus had to leave for awhile to fix things in his mind. you know go to the man cave or whatever.
gertt wrote: "Lori wrote: "Ok, I'll keep reading, but she owes me a good love story for Ian or Bobby!!!!!!..."I think she's working on a love story for Ian, with Rachel. And he did have Emily.
Lizzie and the..."
I thought it was actually funny and something that WOULD happen as I am an identical twin too and we share just about everything. Why choose when you have them both.... laugh out loud. And i believe they all needed family support because they were so out of their element.
Well, I am about done with this book. I anticipate that I shall finish it Tuesday and will begin ECHO. I am kinda going to be sad to see this boom end. It has been wonderful and full of awesome events; it reminds me of the pace of the first 3 books: full of suspense and fast. I hope I like ECHO.I will update when I finish this book and let ya know my thoughts.
But I have to say I grew to love love love Ian in this book. What a great character!
Just finished ABoSaA and started ECHO. I loved ABoSaA. It reminded me of the earlier books with it non stop action and romance. I loved Ian and I can't wait to read more about him! Just love love loved this book!
Ahh Vanessa---Im about half way through Written in my Own Heart's Blood. Its fricking awesome...so you have another great book to look forward to!And her Lord John series is also very entertaining!
(And have you seen the graphic novel of Outlander? Wooo that's pretty hot)
I have the exile and it is awesome! I haven't had much time to read ECHO because of family issues ( my mom and father in law are sick). I hope this weekend I can really divulge myself in reading and kinda escape a little.
I am glad you're liking MOBY. I have it in my study just waiting. I can't wait to start reading it! Are ya liking the series on Starz?
I think it's fine! Can't wait to see more!( I am ignorant and old....what is MOBY?)
Written in my own hearts blood...is MOBY....oohhhhhkay :)Thanks for the heads up!
Arabella wrote: "Written in my own hearts blood...is MOBY....oohhhhhkay :)Thanks for the heads up!"
I was confused about it being Moby too. But I guess MOHB when you pronounce it, sounds like Moby so it caught on. I think that's just confusing though lol.
Arabella wrote: "Reading is the best escape!"That is the best thing I've heard in a long time. Sooooo true. It gets me away from problems of everyday life- my "get away"..
Vanessa Eden wrote: "Just finished ABoSaA and started ECHO. I loved ABoSaA. It reminded me of the earlier books with it non stop action and romance. I loved Ian and I can't wait to read more about him! Just love love l..."I agree, BOSNA is my favourite book in the series so far!
When I finish an Outlander book, I like to go back to the prologue. I assume most of them are in Claire's voice since she is the dominant POV. But this one talks about God, time and mortality (ashes to ashes, dust to dust). It makes me think about Roger, and his embracing faith -- but it also makes me think of Jamie and Claire as they think about their morality. They don't act like middle age people for sure, but they are beginning to think about what will happen when they will be gone. I think about faith in journeys, and how each character perseveres despite some harrowing adventures and the dangers of every day life. For such a short paragraph, it does touch on a lot of themes. That's why I love these books!
Bosna is my favorite book in the series so far. It has more humor to it and I absolutely love Ian in this book!
I am going through my second read of the Outlander series. I can't tell you how much I am understanding things better. I think the first time I listened to them, and her books, at least the way I listen to audios, is not the way to go. Even if some person does not seem important in this book, lo and behold, the next book he/she may play a pivotal role. I really got a lot more out of voyager and DOA. I agree FC is not a favorite, but it does tie into the other books. The one thing I don't understand about ABOSAA is who are Gerald and Neil Forbes? I know they are lawyers and I believe it was Gerald that asked Brianna to marry him and she wouldn't. Didn't he even try to force her hand in some way (can't remember) that was when she went after John Grey and tried to get him to blackmail him. Anyway, is Neil and Gerald the same person, father and son, brothers or what?
This book started out slow for me and I got distracted reading other books for a while but now I don't want to put it down! I'm about 70% through it. Just read the part where Jem has to have his head shaved (view spoiler)
Outlander Series
Books mentioned in this topic
Outlander Kitchen: The Official Outlander Companion Cookbook (other topics)The Outlandish Companion (other topics)
The Outlandish Companion Volume Two: The Companion to The Fiery Cross, A Breath of Snow and Ashes, An Echo in the Bone, and Written in My Own Heart's Blood (other topics)
