Dune: Part 3 (The Prophet)

[Jeff]

Comments on the third section of the book here.

Just arrived, myself. Completely forgot the random jump in time between parts.

[Jeff]

Water of Life and the Bene gesserit -- this is the partr of the book i really don't understand, mainly because of the huge time lapse, I think. The bene gesserit were busy planning for and preparing the way for the kwasitz haderach ages ago. did they do it without the benefits of the lines of reverend mothers? The Fremen were indoctrinated by the b.g. before even arriving on Arrakis. Had the water of life been known before then? Spice obviously was, or such travel would have been near impossible.

[David]

I am currently 50 pages into this section. It is getting kind of vast and mystical. I hate to be a bummer but I don't think it is living up to the promise of the first section. I also am totally bored by the Harkonens. They are just plain villianous and nothing more. Not much more substance than cartoon villains a la League of Doom to the Superfriends. Yawn. I find myself rushing through to get back to Paul and Jessica.

I am hopeful there is some light at the end of the tunnel.

[David]

I finished Dune a few days ago. Overall, despite my bitching most of the time, I enjoyed it.

With Ben (StatSig) not liking the archaic sexual politics, I can't wait for a)his response to the end and b)when he reads that Baron Harkonnen is gay. It's like to drive the point home that he is a sniveling, evil bad guy, just throw in that he's gay, that will get the point across. Thanks 1960s!

On a side note, I'm having a similar experience with a book I am reading now by Gogol, Taras Bulba. It is amazing (I'm absolutely giddy over anything by Gogol) but it is sooooo antisemitic. Lots of talk about those dirty Jews and their money grubbing and sub-human ways.

I'm neither gay nor Jewish, but it just makes you cringe to read these old prejudices presented as though that's just the way it is. But, I can easily look beyond all this (and I prefer my copy of Huck Finn to retain all of its original language, tyvm). It's actually weird and/or jarring to me when movies or books apply modern morality to historical settings. It's anachronistic.

Anyway, that's a tangent. I'm just saying, I noticed it, but whatevs.

In the end, Dune was mostly what I want from "brain candy" sci-fi. Though, with most fantasy/sci-fi I've read, it's super serious, super melodramatic, super flat characters, and super un-ironic. Even the Gogol book I'm reading was engaging, witty, and downright personable and chummy in its tone when Taras Bulba had to shoot his son point blank in the face. Like, Dune's Paul is not someone I would ever want to hang out with. He's kind of vapid and melodramatic. I guess he's been through a lot, not being betrayed by your son who defects to Poland for a girl only to come back and fight your own Cossack family a lot... but Paul's been through a lot.

I hear other books in the Dune series are a far cry from this original. I am not compelled to read more in the series. I do want to see the 2000 mini-series if that ever comes to DVD/Blu-Ray and I will probably see the new theatrical release, if that ever gets made.

[Jeff]

I'd only take one issue with this critique, and it's certainly not germane to the series...

"it just makes you cringe to read these old prejudices presented as though that's just the way it is."

...sadly they may be old, but they're certainly not anachronistic in much of the world.

[David]

Sadly, you are very right. California spoils me a bit, though even CA is not entirely the tolerant and open armed Utopia that we think we are.

But I didn't mean I think Dune must reflect an enlightened morality or sexual political backdrop that reflects where we are now. Though it smacks a bit of pre-fem-lib '60s, it can do whatever it wants in its made up future.

What feels anachronistic to me is finding today's sexual landscape or sentimentalities in historical movies or books. Dances With Wolves is the only thing I can think of right now, but there are thousands of instances.

[Ludesfactor]

Finished this today. The ending is a quick tying up, no reflective summation, no repose.

This was my third reading and I found that I understood things so much better having those two previous reads plus the game Dune to fill in some of the details. The only chapter that partially left me scratching my head was the Baron's conversation with Hawat in part 3.

[Jeff]

I'd say be willing to actually give the Ecological Appendix a go. It's the best of the lot (that I bothered reading, admittedly) and is a focused extract of the part of the book we both didn't hate.

[David]

I totally hear everything Ben is saying. I did really like the setting and the political backdrop. So, I get why the book/series has fans.

Even the larger idea of the story is strong.

It is just all undermined by the horribly flat characters, uninteresting melodramatic style, jilted and random pacing, primitive sexual politics, and is overall mostly kinda dull.

But I also didn't hate it despite all the bad things I have to say about it. Arakis is a fascinating world. The spice mining, worms, mentats, and many more things were really nice ideas and intriguing.

So, I'm glad I read it. I'm just not compelled to continue the series.

[David]

I tossed a coin and started A Game of Thrones. I was about 20 pages in when I noticed how intensely you all have been drooling over the sequel to Name of the Wind and started kicking myself a bit. If I get through AGoT quickly, I might dive into NotW right away.

[Jeff]

Goo wrote: "I tossed a coin and started A Game of Thrones. I was about 20 pages in when I noticed how intensely you all have been drooling over the sequel to Name of the Wind and started kicking myself a bit...."

Sadly, AGoT really doesn't end. It's more like the first chapter...

Also, I really, really suggest you and Ben don't look into Herbert's The White Plague. The overarching concept is a terrorist who designs a virus that kills only women.

[David]

This forum really needs thumbs. That was funny, Jeff.

[Jeff]

Dr. Ben wrote: "Thanks for the warning. To be honest, though, I don't see myself reading any Herbert in the future after this."

But, but... there's that awesome one about mind-controlling cheese!

Yes, really. The Santaroga Barrier

Sci-Fi can bring up a lot of interesting themes. But Dune is definitely more about the idea than the stories. I think the best way to desribe it is Herbert took a perfect haiku and tried to make it into a sonnet. Too lengthy and not the right form anymore.