Struggling Writers discussion
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The 5 Stages of Dealing with Constructive Criticism
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Haha this is great! And perfectly describes it!
Haha thanks. I randomly thought of this the other day while thinking about my old psychology class.
Although I get more anxious than angry. ^_^
Although I get more anxious than angry. ^_^
XD hahaha
I agree with every bit of this, for I myself have felt all five stages. No one likes to hear tough critisism, that's for sure. They want their work to be bright and wonderful and for everyone to love it. When someone comes in pointing out everything thats wrong, it crushes our happy little dream.In the end though, we realize that critisism is in fact what we NEED in order to become better at our craft, and that the person critiquing the peice is only trying to help. Writers are very close to their work, and we just need to learn to accept the feedback, good or bad, and grow.
Yep. Definitely. I have to agree. Though crushed dreams aren't fun. They stink. I somehow skipped some of the steps, but eventually came to number five. I still feel torn though.... *small sob*Sorry, it's still a bit raw.........
But this helps. In a weird sort of way. It tells a lot about the stages and what you might feel when someone give a bad review of your work.
Now all we need it a guide on how to avoid all of the other steps and skip to Step 5!
I like constructive criticism, because it can make me better at what I do. I, for example, recently learned that I use too many adverbs. I've been proud over describing people's emotions and subtleties in the settings, and was very surprised to find that it irritates some people. I went through the material and rewrote half of those sentences, and had to reluctantly (see, there I go again) admit that it became better.Personally, I think that reviews are a different matter. Nothing appeals to everyone, I don't think anything CAN appeal to everyone, and reviews are extremely subjective. Some books that bore me to tears are very popular, and the other way around.
Some readers won't like your material, others will love it. There isn't a thing to do about it, but try to remember that someone not liking what you/I/we wrote doesn't necessarily make it bad.
:-)
Good advice. And that's probably helpful to a lot of people. Especially ones who've given up on their writing or are giving up their writing just because of one bad review.
Sam wrote: "Good advice. And that's probably helpful to a lot of people. Especially ones who've given up on their writing or are giving up their writing just because of one bad review."I agree, very good advice Maria. I can get a ton of wonderful reviews and then its that one bad review that sets me in a bad mood all day. I have come to realize that I can't give just up on my writing, and more importantly, myself, because one person out of twenty didn't like my story.
It's great! I already like criticism anyway.
That's great! That's exactly what I feel when my sister takes a look at my writing and says, "Aby, this is crap."
A good karate chop to my writing always made me feel like in the end, I'll become a better writer. Even if I don't agree with the person. It's great to have multiple perspectives from everybody.
Normally I go through the anger (at myself mainly), and depression bits. Acceptance is a hit and miss thing with me. Sometimes it's easy, and sometimes she has to knock me down a peg or two.
Scarlet wrote: "Sam wrote: "Good advice. And that's probably helpful to a lot of people. Especially ones who've given up on their writing or are giving up their writing just because of one bad review."I agree,..."
And isn't it funny how all those positive reviews build confidence a little, but the one bad review really gets to you.
Yeah I know right? It sucks :( But I have to keep on believing in myself, because ultimately, I can't please everyone.
Yeah. But it's really... ugh. It just kills you. Not literally, 'cause obviously we're all still here. But it kills you on the inside. And is it just me, or do you guys also hate it when the criticizer just breaks you down without pointing out the good things of the writing and doesn't use constructive criticism in their review?
Ingrid wrote: "Maria wrote: "Scarlet wrote: "Sam wrote: "Good advice. And that's probably helpful to a lot of people. Especially ones who've given up on their writing or are giving up their writing just because o..."Well actually its good that people point out punctuation and whatnot. If you're going to be published you must know how to properly structure and compose a piece.
Sam wrote: "Yeah. But it's really... ugh. It just kills you. Not literally, 'cause obviously we're all still here. But it kills you on the inside. And is it just me, or do you guys also hate it when the critic..."Yeah I hate that! Ive had that happen once or twice. Those were gloomy days, thats for sure!
Sam wrote: "Yeah. But it's really... ugh. It just kills you. Not literally, 'cause obviously we're all still here. But it kills you on the inside. And is it just me, or do you guys also hate it when the critic..."Oh yes, I hate that. It makes me think, "Wow, am I relly THAT bad?"
I have a theory; some people seem offended when something isn't exactly to their liking, and just write the first thing that pops up in their heads. The idea that it could hurt someone, or that they would sound more credible themselves if they were more diplomatic, never even cross their minds. Others, I think, write terrible things because they think it makes them cool, or something...
There's a thread in the Amazon Discussion forums called, "My Bad Review," that has helped me over some bumps. It's filled with horrible examples of what authors have to go through, and funny enough, it helps to see that it happens to everyone. (I also found a couple of books I really liked in there, they were the quite opposite of everything the reviewer said, LOL!)
I know right? And I hate it when someone just says "Wow, well that chapter really didn't have a point." And I'm like ready to tear my hair out because of course it does have a point, and they would know that if they read more. Sometimes its hard when you think, oh hey everyone likes this, and then there are those couple people who dont, and thats what really ruins your day. It sucks.Really? Maybe I should check out that forumn..I know everyone has to go through it and the author cant please everyone, but I bet that would help me to see that I'm not the only one who has to deal with it.
I went into the depression when I realized my first draft of Fires and Fantasy sucked. Badly.
Ahahahahaha, you just made my english teacher telling me I have horrible editing skills ALL THE BETTER!!!
Hm. Read Annie Lamott. EVERY first draft sucks. Nice use of the stages of grief.Amazing that many MFA students still don't get this.
I have to add, though--positive comments highlight what the writer does well and how this can show them how to transfer those skills to weaker areas. Positive comments can be incredibly powerful, and I think a lot of us lose track of the insightful positive comments.
Yeah. So stop staring at the keyboard and trying to create something perfect the first time and just verbally spew.
Push through girl. Even if you hate that chapter, push through it. It will probably all change by the next draft anyway.
Wow. Haha I started to get email updates for this thread again. So funny, I forgot all about this. ^_^
Alex *Believers Never Die* wrote: "Wow, that's EXACTLY how I feel about constructive criticism! But what I hate even more is when you ask someone to read over something or to give you tips and they just say, "I really liked it!" or,..."Agreed. Writing groups are key to perfecting the craft of writing. As well as writing regularly, and giving up the ego just a bit. Even JK Rowling was rejected. No one is perfect right out of the gate.
I have heard so many stories of writers being rejected, of agents rejecting because they had a bad day, all sorts of crazy things. I recently heard Solomon Jones, a writer out of Philly, and he talked about how when he gets rejections, it drives him to work harder. He wants to prove himself. Great way to turn a negative into a positive.
Agents actually rarely give any criticism--it's a form rejection--unless they think you and your work have potential! So if an agent does anything but send you a form, don't be discouraged. Take it as a big compliment!As for people you have asked to look at your work, this is more a note for the critiquers than the critiqued, but remember positive feedback--pointing out what WORKS in a piece, remembering to frame your feedback in terms of what the person was trying to do, not what you want them to do if you were them--that's really important.
To the critiqued, remember asking another writer to critique you is often your harshest audience. We tend to pick each other apart compared to what a reader who picked your book up or downloaded it would do. The criticism can be good for you still, but just keep in mind writers can be really blunt with each other.
I always give my work to my husband, I have no idea why because his reply is always, and I mean always....'that was great honey!'. Really? Even I know it is crap, but thanks anyway. Then I decided to give it to my Mom, and she was all about the grammar!!! Mom, the story is what is important, I know there are grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, just give me some story enhancing criticism....alas, this was not possible, she couldn't get over my grammar!! On to the next best people in my life, my friends...off it went to them, still waiting for some criticism, and it's been about a month!!! It's not that long of a story, a couple of days, max, if you are a slow reader!! So.....where to now?????
I am so damn lucky. My mom's a writer. My brother's a writer. I have a good friend who is a writer--they all give me good feedback. Even my dad, because my mother broke him in to how to give a good critique years ago. And my mom doesn't have any room to talk about writing "something bad."
Okay I just read this whole discussion, first i want to say I really like the five steps and CicadaGrrl you are so lucky. I can mabey get my mom to read somthing and give feedback that helps (non grammer feedback), my dad says its good or sounds good, my brother ha no way no how, my friends give decent feedback but not really. So you are really lucky.
Totally. And I know it. Growing up in such a writing friendly family, with writing friends, really makes this life much easier for me.
I've done a lot of critiques and editing for other authors and also been on the receiving end.I came up with a couple of things on my own about critiques
1) Never take it personally. This may be your baby and you think it's beautiful. The truth is it's wrinkly, has a squashed face, and babies need to fill out a bit before they are beautiful.
2) When writing powerful scenes- Think of it as a firecracker...sometimes they go BOOM and other times they fizzled and crackle (read duds)
3) The critiquer is giving their honest opinion. What have they got to lie about? But remember opinions are like @** H**** everyone has one. That's why you use more than one.
4) Never use your family as a critiquer...they are over critical or too nice. Either way, opinions of what your family thinks is going to hurt you. While I may run scenes by my husband and family, I never ask for them to read the whole novel while writing.
5)Never put all your eggs in one basket. Use several different critiquers. If several say the same thing...there is something you need to go back and look at.
6) Do not argue with the critiquer. It serves to tick them off and make them swear off reading anything else you write.
I tend to balance good and bad with all critiques. There is always something good in what you read and allows nit picks. A total negative crit, is useless.
Just my two cents.
I find your two cents very worthy and I actually use some of those.
This topic has been archived as of 5/5/2013.
Here's a bit of a comedic spin on the thoughts of a writer when accepting constructive criticism.
Stage One: Anger
The writer becomes angry after viewing a comment. It comes off as a little more of an insult than anything. They may become angry at themselves or angry at the person who left the comment. This person basically degraded everything that the writer has been working on.
Stage Two: Denial
The writer tries to cope with the idea that they are actually right and this person is wrong. After all, they must be jealous or think they know everything in he world--when really, they don't. Therefore, why should such comments mean anything.
Stage Three: Bargaining
The writer starts to think about a lot of "if only" ideas while trying to deal with the mess that they have created. For example, if only I had proof read this or if only I wrote this idea before Twilight came out and so on.
Stage Four: Depression
The writer eventually realizes that the criticism is all right and that they undoubtedly suck at writing. There's no point at going on. Maybe they should start a new story since obviously there's so many problems with this one.
Stage Five: Acceptance
The writer realizes that this person is only trying to help them out. Some of the pieces in the criticism are extremely useful while others, not so much. In the end, it all comes down to them as a writer to pick through such results in order to create a stronger piece of work. But no matter what, there will always be something wrong with their writing.