The History Book Club discussion
AMERICAN DEMOCRACY - GOVERNMENT
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BOOK AS A WHOLE - FINAL THOUGHTS -LEGACY OF ASHES
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Finished the book today. Good read, but not too enjoyable because it felt so depressing.Observations/conclusions:
1) The CIA should have spent much less effort/time/funds on "exciting" covert ops and much more on intelligence gathering and analysis.
2A) US political leaders fail to understand most of the non-Western world. The CIA has contributed to that failure, but I think it reflects a failure of Americans in general to understand the non-Western world.
2B) The CIA can't get enough people who speak relevant foreign languages. I wonder if European intelligence agencies have that issue? I am under the impression that Europeans know more languages than Americans.
3) Lots of serious leadership failures related to the CIA. Not just bad directors, but an almost total lack of presidents that understood, clearly communicated with, trusted, or cared about the CIA especially it's intelligence. When your boss doesn't pay attention to your work it sends the message your work doesn't matter. When you feel your work doesn't matter then most people put less effort into their work and the quality suffers.
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I feel similarly to the way you do.
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How did you feel about the book itself?
What a perfect way to end the study of the CIA. All the mistakes,ineptness of the past seems very inconsequential with the news today. Knowing of past errors,it is remarkable that the agency still finds the way to work. The success of their foritude should be praised. Remarkable!
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I agree with you Mary.
Mary, well said! I liked this book very much and found it complex and interesting, informative, and more than a little depressing and disturbing because of the numerous failures, whether it be failed direction, execution of mission, or formulation of strategy. But the events of the last 24 hours point out that there is a lot we don't know, and won't know, that leads to huge success. Our government, flaws and all, still finds a way to work.
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I read this was a team effort with other agencies like the NSA, not to slight the CIA, but you wonder if the author would be so optimistic ;-). He does seem pessimistic, understandably. I learned a lot from this book, no doubt. I'm glad I read it because it gave me a view into a world I didn't know too much about.
It was depressing and he beats the same message of failure through the whole book, though. I also would have liked more context and he seemed to pass through things like the Church Committee and how it affected the staff over at the CIA without mentioning it at all or just a sentence or two.
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I am glad I read it, learned a lot and it prompted more questions, but we are never really done learning or reading. I would not have picked this book otherwise but someone urged me to participate and I am glad I did.
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And what an ending; it could not have been scripted better.
All you need is the Hollywood sunset and scene ;-)
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I really liked the book too. It was depressing to read about the ineptness, waste etc involved. But then when you see the events of this past weekend you remember there is another side. I really wish there was another book that didn't have this author's obvious bias, but as has been discussed here many times, the good stuff often doesn't get published. Will also be interesting to see if the "new command" will make any difference. Hasn't seemed to have helped before. Good, informative read overall.
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I think that Leon Panetta and Petraeus (military) had a lot to do with this weekend's mission. So if this is their initiation, I think they succeeded in introducing themselves.
I think I also learned a lot from this book although I wasn't pleased with what I learned.
Overall I rate this book as a worthy read - I will give it four stars for Goodreads rating. And thanks for all the other info provided by all of you.
I continue to be hopeful that we can be more effective and avoid abuses of the power we now wield in the world while protecting ourselves and others.
I made other comments after the last chapters too but I found this a mind opening read and think it was a good choice for us
Vince, great final comments and glad you participated. It was not something I would have picked up on my own but the reading experience was enhanced by participating in this forum.
Alisa wrote: "Vince, great final comments and glad you participated. It was not something I would have picked up on my own but the reading experience was enhanced by participating in this forum."Yes Alisa
I have generally found that my readings are enhanced with this group -
So thanks to all the folks starting - but not ending - with Bentley that make it work.
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I also found it helpful reading and discussing this book here on the forum.
There are always those moments when all of us are reading and maybe were shocked by what we read.
We could somehow share, discuss and bring these moments into perspective which is sometimes hard when reading by oneself without the benefit of being able to bounce ideas, reactions and perceptions off of each other.
Everybody's background also contributes greatly to the experience I think and adds additional historical information that all of us most likely would not have had alone.
The group read of this book was totally rewarding and challenging. I read the book more closely. The inclusion of outside sources was an added benefit. But the best part was the comments of the group. Thank You!
Mary wrote: "The group read of this book was totally rewarding and challenging. I read the book more closely. The inclusion of outside sources was an added benefit. But the best part was the comments of the ..."Glad you liked the book and discussion; it was good.
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When every member contributes and adds their perspective, it makes for a very rewarding discussion and we all learn from each other.
This is a SPOILER thread so folks who are just reading this book for the first time should probably stay on the weekly non spoiler threads so that they do not encounter spoilers.
However, for those folks who have already read the entire book and who would like to have expansive or side discussions, this thread is that place.
This thread may and/or may not be moderated depending upon where the moderator is in their own reading,
However, at the very least at the end of the book, folks might want to add their comments as to how they liked the book here. If you want to go at your own pace and complete the book at your own rate; this is a spoiler thread where you can post anything about the book at all. This is also a place to post your "Final Thoughts" about the book.