The Extra Cool Group! (of people Michael is experimenting on) discussion
Off-Topic, but Goodreads-related
>
Negative Comments
date
newest »
newest »
I'm going to be a bit persnickety here and split semantic hairs. Let's define "negative" comments. To me, expressing polite disagreement with a reviewer's point of view isn't negative, or doesn't have to be. "Negative," to me, connotes something which would arouse bad feeling. My hope is that disagreement, expressed appropriately, would not arouse bad feelings. Personal attacks, on the other hand, would. So when we say that certain reviews invite negative comments, i.e., vitriolic and attacking responses, my reaction is that I've read reviews which were quite provocative and were taken personally by readers. Who is responsible for that -- the reviewer, or the readers? It's a bit gray for me, but I mostly think that it's a bit ridiculous to take someone's review personally unless they singled you out by name as a target. The fact that an anonymous stranger didn't care for a book you happened to like is not about you. It's about differing tastes, which is what makes things interesting.
I hate snobby elitists. I'm so much better than them.
MyFleshSingsOut wrote: "I hate snobby elitists. I'm so much better than them.";-)
for instance, Khaya spells the color grey as 'gray.'
that really rubs me the wrong way.
I don't want to be a colorist here, but grey should always be spelled with an 'e.' No matter what those American editors say.
Philip wrote: "So, did I respond appropriately or not? How should I have responded? I was tempted to go for snarky in return, but I can picture that backfiring on me in the long run. Help me out."
Philip, I thought your response was fine. I suppose it depends on why you're writing reviews, but unless it's because you're looking for confrontations I can't see where being snarky in return would be a good choice. Opinions aren't facts and your critic is entitled to his. Although I thought his comments were a little harsh, I guess maybe that's a risk you take by putting your thoughts out there.
I'll tell you what I really think sucks though and that's teachers having to buy materials with their own money. That, to me, is inexcusable.
Thanks Michael. Yeah, the comments were pretty harsh, but on rereading the review it was pretty harsh as well - though I tried to direct it at the book itself, and the way it was marketed.I better clarify though, I didn't have to buy the books. I've just been trying to organize a classroom collection to supplement what we have in the library. I'm one of the lucky ones. My block gave me like...$350 to buy books that were grade level, good, and cross-curricular. The administrators give us supportive, free environment in which to teach, and positive feedback on what we need to do to accomplish our common goals of education. I've seen, and worked in districts where that's not the case, so I'm counting my blessings. : )
Hah, you wanna see negative comments blurring into ad hominem attacks? Check out my review of American Psycho, if you have two hours to spare. Only i don't recommend it, it's ugly!http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
this is one of the most absorbing threads on a book review that i've seen on GR. and i'm still reading it, actually. its all so fascinating! i loved your first comment back to the first commentator.
Hey Mark, thanks - not to bang on about my own stuff - BUT! - when you've done with that thread the whole thing springs back into life herehttp://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
Mod
So, I then got in a fairly heated argument, where I was explaining in a way that was probably pretty mean, my reasons for thinking it was a lame ass-wipe of a book....god, I can't even help it, apparently...while others were getting offended, and asking why I had any write to say whether the writing sucked or not.
I can't remember how the whole thing ended, but that's probably the most heated argument I've been involved in on here. Everything else has stayed friendly, and the only troll I've had bowed out of the exchange pretty quickly.
i must be especially golden-sweet, or more likely not widely read at all, because i've never had any trolls. i've only had one bad argument in a group. it was with a few people at once, i eventually took it off-line but then they brought it right back into the group, finally the moderator had to step in. they just went batshit, totally insulting, because they felt i was calling an author out as a child molester. which really wasn't the case at all. saying someone has a problematic engagement with child molestation is different than saying that person actually is a child molestor in real life. but the dumbasses just wouldn't let that point sink in, it was like they were related to the author or something, and couldn't deal with any form of criticism. i'd say things like "i'm sure he's a swell guy but i hate how he always has to use molestation as a shock tactic" and then they'd respond with comments like "people like you who intellectualize everything are disgusting, you need to get laid more" or "from the picture of the author he looks like a very nice, chubby guy and not a molestor at all". it was all very frustrating. and funny too.
some of my own irritable comments on various threads & reviews have gotten push-back, but more in the form of debate than just trashing.
i've read troll comments in other reviews, of course. i think. for me a troll is someone who just makes a lame, short, almost pointless attack and then just takes off. sometimes i wonder if the troll comments i've read were made by the reviewer's friends, because i've made some asshole comments here and there to my own friends' reviews (real life friends, that is). that's just how i talk to my friends outside of GR i guess. its such a lucky thing to be my friend in real life, such awesome benefits like ongoing asshole commentary!
Michael wrote: "I got in a fairly heated, fairly long-lasting argument about the book Twilight in this debate group I used to be mildly active in. I thought the thread was specifically for Twilight haters, so I w..."*sshhh* You have to be careful - the Twilighters are everywhere.
@ Mark's comment #73: Whatever. You're just an idiot that doesn't know anything. Of course you've had trolls you idiotic idiot. You're just a fanboy.There. I am now officially your first troll.
@ Angel: I had the same thought. Michael'd better watch his back. (Not from me, mind you... I didn't particularly like the book either... but from them...) Somebody could write a pretty suspensful book about Twilight fans.
You mean like Twilight fans are the real vampires, sucking the joy out of reading and infecting young women with their virus?
Young women? Who are you kidding? It's spread so much farther than that! The women at work look at me oddly when I say things like "Um...I prefer my vampires to be adults. Ones who don't glitter." Then they laugh and say "Oh, you're so funny!" as if I couldn't be serious. I think I need to be careful walking to my car at night...
My best troll story happened on the comment thread for Tender Buttons. I can't stand Gertrude Stein, and wrote a snotty, three-sentence review stating that fact. Someone called Ashley, who has since deleted his comments, just attacked me in the comments, calling me stupid and immature and then for some reason (because I guess he couldn't think of enough things to say about my actual review), he started insulting my Shakespeare reviews as well. I fought back, naturally, but tried to at least sound mature and level-headed (although the name "sugartits" may have been written by me at some point.) Then Ashley called me a twatfritter, and things escalated from there.The best part was that, after exchanging insults and angry comments, out of nowhere Ashley suddenly apologized to me for attacking me, and explained that he'd read my review when he was having a very bad day and needed to pick a fight. It was a nice, albeit perplexing conclusion to the best troll fight I've ever had.
The link to the review is here
http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
but sadly Ashley deleted all his comments after he apologized. You can still see my responses, though, and several loyal Goodreaders coming to my defense.
Wow... sugartits and twatfritter... that's some mud.Things have escalated on my thread. There were many clever tactical maneuvers on both sides... Thanks for the the advice, but I may end up deleting the review and starting over... and throwing out the last shred of goodreads integrity I have. : )
I don't think deleting a review and starting over shows a lack of integrity...it can be a good move. I don't know the particulars though.
Philip wrote: "@ Mark's comment #73: Whatever. You're just an idiot that doesn't know anything. Of course you've had trolls you idiotic idiot. You're just a fanboy.There. I am now officially your first troll..."
yeah! my innocence has been taken away!
mark wrote: "yeah! my innocence has been taken away! "And the rest of us watched...I feel so dirty
yeah! my innocence has been taken away! Mark, I am starting to suspect you of being one of those guys who pretends to be innocent in hopes of being seduced. Or trolled.
it is an old game plan, but also a tried and true one!
The only negative comment I have about my GR experience is that I've seen how one sniping, passive-aggressive person can change the dynamic of an entire group. Nothing to be done about that, I guess, but it's sad to watch.
Fuck you all. This thread sucks. Negative comments? Shut the fuck up. You all have smelly family members. You yourselves also emit unpleasant odors. I do believe you all perform lewd acts with your pets. I have also heard that many of you have been struck with something called an Ugly Stick. A reliable source informs me that you are all highly undesirable both sexually and when it comes to basic companionship. You are lonely and also stupid and gross. You have poor taste in the arts. Your political alignments make vomit rise into my throat. Each and everyone of you regularly masturbate to footage of car accidents because you are mentally unwell. I am superior to you all in all ways, even in my humility, which is ranked as King Shit of Humble Mountain by all of the most respected academic journals of humility.
MyFleshSingsOut wrote: "Fuck you all. This thread sucks. Negative comments? "A excellent and valiant effort - but I think you forgot to include slurs regarding ancestry and choices of significant others. Or perhaps you left those out in a bid for post-modern minimalism.
Your abominable choice to feel sexually aroused in ways that fall outside the hetero-normative paradigm is another thing I dislike about you people. Also, your family tree emerges from regions and gene pools that I find to be inferior to the regions and gene pools which I hale from. Not to mention that your cultural traditions generally wouldn't be fit to wipe the anal cavity of my proud cultural traditions. I'd ask you to lick my boots if I didn't think you'd steal them, but since all of your ancestry bespeaks thieving impulses coursing through your veins I'll opt for simply spitting upon the undulating throngs of you, with little care for differentiating you as unique individuals.
Angel wrote: "*breaks into wild applause* Well done!"I agree! Well done indeed, MFSO.
MFSO, I remember when I first encountered you on gr, there were some prickly threads...you and brian, and who was that army guy with the gals in Jamaica? Bill?wild stuff.
but yeah, I remember some fights. of sorts.
Yeah, brian and I fought on a thread of his. He deleted all of it though. I mostly try to stay out of heated discussions now just because it's so predictable how it's going to pan out and it makes me feel like I'm getting ulcers when frustratingly trying to get certain points across, etc. etc.
Caveat here: I am using the impersonal 'you' here.I respect that people get excited about things that are important to them, but I'm all about respecting others. To go onto someone's review thread and to attack them personally for their thoughts on a book is wrong. I don't agree with personally attacking a writer or making insults or slurs against that person either. If you want to say why you don't agree with their review, nothing wrong with it. But I think it needs to end when things get less than polite. You are highly unlikely to change someone's mind about something by yelling at them and telling they they are stupid for not agreeing with you. All it does is make them angry and more obstinate. If you can't disagree with someone politely, I think it's time to walk away.
I do get offended when people get on my review threads and try to act like I'm stupid for having an opinion. Opinions are varied with each person. They are not right or wrong. If someone did come on my thread and disrespect me, I would happily delete their comments.
I wasn't referring to this group in my comment. Now you've hurt my feelings, but that's OK. I feel your pain and see that you're only trying to get attention. Hope Michael's taking notes.
Wow, MFSO, you sounded uncannily like my flatmate talking about non-Germanic races/cultures!
amazing posts today everybody.i have to say, i copy and pasted a couple of them to word... that way just in case someone edits them i'll always have them and be able to plagerize them when insulting someone. (so props MFSO)
MyFleshSingsOut wrote: "I was joking."No. You can't have been. Sounds too intellectual and high-brow - and everyone knows AI is just not funny. You might have been a bit crabby, though, and are of course exempted and excused.
Of course you are correct, sir. Only the highest of brows kicks off a soliloquy with "Fuck you all."
Interesting question. I have skipped past the last two pages and in no way intend to reopen a dead argument.I want to make one point and then respond to the question.
The term "troll" is about picking a fight, i.e. trolling/looking/searching for a fight. Many of us have engaged in trolling behaviour at various times for various reasons, but that doesn't make you a troll. A troll trolls all the time and is unremorseful. Trolls are rude people most of the time. Nice people are rude sometimes, but still not trolls.
Now to answer your question.
I think twice about leaving a negative comment. If I think I can engage in a friendly discussion I might. If I am just cheesed that a person negatively reviewed a book that I loved, or loved a book that I hated, and I am overcome with a desire to set them straight I bite my tongue.
Really this is the same policy I (and most of us I suspect) use across all forms of social media and in real life situations.
E.g. When I am at a social gathering (or online)and someone does something that I find completely contrary to my beliefs, I certainly do not pick an argument. I would lose friends very quickly if I lectured another mum on the negative impact of starting solids at 6mo while she sat feeding her 4mo Farax, or expressed disgust when they tell me they are using a CIO technique.
I am still an outspoken person, I just am not a rude person and the two shouldn't be confused.
A few months ago, on my reviw of The Name of The Wind somebody posted a comment that was so full of vehement personal nastiness that the GR police removed it. They also removed my response, which I tried to make sound reasonable, but was really just an attack on the commentor's intelligence wrapped in a calm demeanor.What I found really interesting was the person had apparently created that GR profile for the sole purpose of posting that one nasty comment. I understand that people do this from time to time. I just find it incredibly immature, not to mention insecure and cowardly.
I've seen this happen all too often.Unfortunately, many times it's the author him or herself doing that.
Yes, very cowardly.
Autocorrect get the better of you there? :P
The Extra Cool Group! (of people Michael is...
Books mentioned in this topic
The Name of the Wind (other topics)Tender Buttons (other topics)
The First Tycoon: The Epic Life of Cornelius Vanderbilt (other topics)
The Stars My Destination (other topics)
His Dark Materials (other topics)
More...
of course it is. One should expect that if one writes reviews for the public eye. The trick in writing negative comments is in the tone, and of course, in not attacking the reviewer. To stick with the ideas in the reviews and to attack them...if one feels one must. for whatever reason--
I don't mind a good argument. discussion. I try to stay away from personal attacks.