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How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe
SFU: What about that ending? (SPOILER ALERT!!!!)
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Alfredo
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Dec 11, 2010 06:33PM
I think it has a perfect mistake as a clock ticks inside the time machine, where time, we've been told, doesn't pass. But then I really hated this book. Didn't find it funny or interesting at all...
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I curious what you mean by perfect mistake? Time doesn't pass inside the TM-31, but wouldn't the technician operating it would need to know the time/date outside the machine so they could arrive at the desired destination.
The clock isn't the problem, but that the protagonist and TAMMY talk about the time passing at the same velocity as outside ("the longer 40 seconds of my life). Earlier in the book they carefully explained why this doesn't happen. That's what I mean by "perfect" because the contradiction is not with any real science, but precisely with the science in the book!Stephen wrote: "I curious what you mean by perfect mistake? Time doesn't pass inside the TM-31, but wouldn't the technician operating it would need to know the time/date outside the machine so they could arrive a..."
That's a good point. Do you remember where it says time doesn't pass inside the TM-31? I also seem to remember a place where he says time has a thickness and that it takes time to travel through time... another possible contradiction?
Yes, it raises questions too! Like how much time does it take to go say to a year in the past? A month, six month, two years? Each answer raises its own set of problems!Stephen wrote: "That's a good point. Do you remember where it says time doesn't pass inside the TM-31? I also seem to remember a place where he says time has a thickness and that it takes time to travel through ..."
The time machine is a metaphor for writing. Within the time machine (the book), time doesn't pass, because any time you look at page 30, it is always the same time for the character in there, but for the writer and reader time does pass.Alternatively, the inside of the machine could have a space-like relationship with the rest of the universe, so while time does pass inside the time machine, it only has meaning with relation to what's going on inside the machine, and does not affect Yu's worldline relative to the outside universe.
Sean, your second paragraph makes sense if you agree that the text contradicts itself. I still don't agree that the text contradicts itself because I haven't found the passage saying that time doesn't pass inside the TM-31. In fact Yu says the exact opposite; even talking about how years can pass for him, but his landlord sees him almost every day in his chronology.Your first paragraph does not compute. When fictional Charles Yu tries to skip pages bad things happen. Meaning, I guess, that although he can move through time with certain restrictions, he cannot exist in more than one place at a time; the only time that he can exist is the space between his future and past(I'm assuming the quote in the book about the present being fictional is fact).
Sean, you never said if you liked the book?
I have not read the book yet - BUT - just to let you know. Saying, "What about that ending? (SPOILER ALERT!!!!))IS a spoiler !
(like saying, "Didn't you like the trick ending in that ghost movie Bruce Willis was in?")
... that is why it says ALERT!!!!Stan wrote: "I have not read the book yet - BUT - just to let you know. Saying, "What about that ending? (SPOILER ALERT!!!!))
IS a spoiler !
(like saying, "Didn't you like the trick ending in that ghost movi..."
-refer to loc737 for us Kindle folks-When he was referring to time not passing, that was during the part where he kept the TM in P-I gear. (Present Indefinite) Time still passes inside, but remains in the same moment on the outside. (like the outside world is paused)
The amount of time that passes inside the TM relative to the time that passes outside the TM varies, depending on which mode the machine is in. When parked, actual:TM time ratio is 1:1. When in P-I ratio is 1:indefinite. When traveling, the ratio would differ between which direction you were traveling -X:1 backwards, X:1 forwards.
This is like trying to figure out why Jabberjaw sounds like Curly.
`This doesn't jibe with me. If he was parked then he had arrived and it was the time. If he was just waiting to get out, then getting out before the other he arrived was a way to get out of the loop (better than the one he took in my opinion). Of course, this is a moot point, since it is related to my problem with time travel. It doesn't make sense, because it can't happen (except forward at a constant speed).Josh wrote: "-refer to loc737 for us Kindle folks-
When he was referring to time not passing, that was during the part where he kept the TM in P-I gear. (Present Indefinite) Time still passes inside, but remai..."
I love some books, I hate some books. That's the word I would use. The book didn't accomplish anything for me. I didn't like the time travel as book writing metaphor, I didn't find the jokes funny. As for the father and son relationship... I thought it was cartoonish. But, as you said, everyone has their own opinions. That's just mine...
A lot of the comedy of this book comes from references to other science fiction works. I can see how it wouldn't seem funny, especially if you havn't seen/read the work Yu was referring to. Was this book deep? Not really. Was it cartoonish? Perhaps. Was it off on some of it's time travel theory? Probably. Was it a good, interesting book? Absolutely.
Disagree. And I doubt the problem is that I haven't seen/read the science fiction references. I wouldn't recommend this book at all.Josh wrote: "A lot of the comedy of this book comes from references to other science fiction works. I can see how it wouldn't seem funny, especially if you havn't seen/read the work Yu was referring to. Was thi..."
I'm liking the book. I think the primary reason comes from the following:1) what I want SF&F to do is open up the world: give it more potential, make it more wondrous and strange. (This as distinguished from detective fiction which seeks to discover the truth and close the breach, and asks what price our souls will have to pay to accomplish that.)
2) I believe that we use the same mental 'systems' to build stories that we use to construct our everyday coherent reality.
Given that, Yu does a good job of playing with 2) to accomplish 1), imho. My view of stories is admittedly not the common view which probably explains why I like the book more than seems to be the norm.
Stories about stories that I like -
>Tantric Buddhism - time and phenomena emerge from the mouth of the dragon/goddess all mixed up and partially formed and we sort it out to construct our world.
>Nietzsche - we live one life over and over in Eternal Return so we better make choices that we'll want to re-experience for-bleeping-ever.
>Jung - our personal stories open up into the big stories that channel human meaning.
>Modern neuroscience - even perception is synthetic
> Brian Eno - art is rehearsal as we navigate through imaginal space working out the implications of possible futures.
*SPOILER*Other than the clock ticking debate, I also found the ending to be a bit rushed. He spends pages viewing his past, finding the clues to his father. The in about 5 pages, he finds him, reunites him with his mom, marries the girl and finds fulfillment in his life. I felt a little bit cheated. Kinda like the 99% of the story line was in P-I and the last 1% was in "normal" time.
Good observation. I didn't realize it until I read your comment. But I think you are right, and that was part with my general dissatisfaction with the ending and the novel.Corey wrote: "*SPOILER*
Other than the clock ticking debate, I also found the ending to be a bit rushed. He spends pages viewing his past, finding the clues to his father. The in about 5 pages, he finds him, ..."
