The Extra Cool Group! (of people Michael is experimenting on) discussion
Pertaining to the project
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Has GoodReads changed the way you read?
message 51:
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Jessica
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Dec 18, 2010 06:24PM
oh yeah, book sales like that are terrific. My library had one recently--I came away with a box of really interesting looking books for $5.
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Jessica wrote: "oh yeah, book sales like that are terrific. My library had one recently--I came away with a box of really interesting looking books for $5."Library sales are great too, but my local sadly throws out all the good ones & replaces them with Mills & Boon.
Mod
Wow, where? No, don't tell me. My wife will beat me if I buy bags full of books when my shelves are already full, and they're very, very full. That sounds like quite a find, though.
University library sales....heaven in a hall.
Velvetink wrote: ".I miss the spontaneity & being able to walk into a store with no destination. Now every purchase seems pre-planned.I felt like that till I found a 2nd hand store that sells books by the bag load..."
I just realized how freaking redundant that last part sounded. WTF is pre-planned? That's like saying "I want to have QT time."
Anyway, my local-& awesome-UBS sells boxes of random books sometimes for $5. I'm always tempted to buy a mystery box-o-potential-goodness but like Michael, my fiance would rough me up. I'm the reader in the family & my bookshelves already take up at least half of our bedroom. Hell, when he's not home I use his side of the bed as a temporary bookshelf. No unplanned purchases for me. *tear* *tear* *snot bubble*
LethalLovely~Punch the Bitch You Hate Today! wrote: I use his side of the bed as a temporary bookshelf:) this is possibly why I am currently single.
LethalLovely~Punch the Bitch You Hate Today! wrote: "GR has made browsing damn near obsolete for me. I love that GR has opened me up to so many different authors & series & FRIENDS WHO READ-yay!-but I admit, I miss the spontaneity & being able to walk into a store with no destination. Now every purchase seems pre-planned. "
I didn't realize it until I read this, but the same thing has happened to me. I rarely if ever go to a bookstore with only a vague notion of what to get and having an "oooh, shiny!" random book-buying moment anymore.
Everything I buy now is just what's on my TBR, which is just filled with recommendations from people here.
I need to rectify this. I love those random buys that end up being pretty good/great reads.
I didn't realize it until I read this, but the same thing has happened to me. I rarely if ever go to a bookstore with only a vague notion of what to get and having an "oooh, shiny!" random book-buying moment anymore.
Everything I buy now is just what's on my TBR, which is just filled with recommendations from people here.
I need to rectify this. I love those random buys that end up being pretty good/great reads.
random reads happen for me from the various swap shops around where I live: in the local cafe, at the dump (!), and at my college(workplace)...all have swap racks for books. It's fun. I've picked up some great books I'd not have read otherwise. and some semi-duds...but that's okay too.
Jessica wrote: "random reads happen for me from the various swap shops around where I live: in the local cafe, at the dump (!), and at my college(workplace)...all have swap racks for books. It's fun. I've picked u...""at the dump" reminds me that you can pick up great books at freecycle.com (you need to join your nearest group online). It's a global enterprise to rid the dumps of landfill.
I myself buy all my books 2nd hand from Amazon (i.e. the many 2nd hand sellers that use Amazon). It sounds like you guys also don't buy new books. How are all the authors & publishers making any money if even bookworms like us don't buy their stuff new?
I buy most of my books new. I like to save them and reread and they don't always last long if I buy a beaten up used copy. Sometimes I find really good ones though and do grab them used.
Once upon a time in a land far far away lived two people with an expanding library. One day they decided the library was too big and they refused to store any more books.At that point I stopped buying books. Lugging around a library in a suitcase means you spend more money on excess baggage than the books.
Paul wrote: "I myself buy all my books 2nd hand from Amazon (i.e. the many 2nd hand sellers that use Amazon). It sounds like you guys also don't buy new books. How are all the authors & publishers making any mo..."New books are fantastic - love the smell of them & feel bad I can't support writers by buying new, but on a disability pension just have to go with 2nd hand & I also think of all the trees being cut down to produce them. I do buy some new books (for special occasions,birthday etc.) but really really have to WANT them badly.
I buy new books for authors I really want to support, generally from Amazon. I use BookMooch & PaperBackSwap for the rest. I'd like to support them all, but the money just isn't in the budget.(Does buying a second hand book on Amazon help the author? It might because it is a sale, so helps their stats with the publisher, I would think. Does anyone know?)
it helps in the way you mention Jim, not in royalties, but at least in finding readers and in possible reviews...
Mod
as an author, I am happiest to have readers. While royalties are great, even with 3 books (in my case), they don't amount to that much. So...knowing folks are reading my books--whether from libraries, on loan, 2nd hand shops, or new sales--is what matters most of all.
Oh no, I always build more shelves, or occasionally move to a larger house.
Michael, you have way more will power than I do. I just can't resist buying more books too often.Paul, I'm not moving again - ever. My daughter is old enough to leave home, so there is that option. Daughter or more books...? Tough decision...
;-)
There was an outcry (and petition) from established authors some years ago against Amazon, due to the fact that it listed one's books from second hand vendors right where it listed new books, thereby potentially cutting out the opportunity for any roylaties due to authors (assuming purchasers went for the cheaper 2nd hand option). Independent press authors, however, felt differently as Amazon provided worldwide distribuition of their books whereas previously it was very, very difficult to get hold of small press authors' books.E-books, on the other hand, not only reduce the aftermarket of authors' books as you point out, but the royalties suck or are virtually nonexistent.
Brian wrote: "I love it when I find some personal little notation in a used book. It makes me wonder about the life of the book, prior to my ownership. My copy of Tomorrow's Money used to belong to a library in ..."I like this too, except when there are too many notations, like in a book used for a class...too distracting then for me, too much the former owner's book and not mine...
I thought ebook royalties were up with some publishers, Jessica. Sheesh, they have to earn a greater profit margin. (I know, I've seen publishers say they don't, but I don't believe them.)
The royalty per book is smaller with ebooks than with print books. At least with my pubber.
I thought I read an article last year where one of the major publishers had gone from 6% on print to 10% on epub because a bunch of authors said that since there weren't any hard manufacturing, transportation or return costs, the publisher was getting a bigger profit. Makes sense to me.
well just goes to show you--with my publisher at least, any extra profit is not going to the author.
I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe it's time to unionize.;-)
Goodreads has definitely added a more intentional decision to share my opinions and thoughts which adds to the experience. Before, if asked I would share what I though but otherwise, rarely. An unexpected change is that Goodreads has helped me let go and pass books on to others instead of keeping them since I have recorded my opinions and don't need the book to remind me what I thought.
The side conversation about used books etc is also interesting to me. No easy answers, the author and publisher certainly deserve to profit from their hard work but I also know, if it hadn't been for used/passed on books, finances would have limited me to only what the school/library provided for most of my life and during most of my children's early years. A free society is highly dependent on literacy of its people.
I buy both new and used. I am very impatient and when I want to read a particular book I may look online or hit a couple of used bookstores, but usually I run down to the local new bookstore and grab it if it is on the shelf. Also, the last few months a big fraction of my book reading is titles chosen by two monthly book groups I attend. As a result, I am often under a bit of a deadline as far as acquiring a current month's reads. I also collect books, and there I mostly buy used from antiquarian shops. After all, with any authors or subject areas I collect I already have anything that is, or recently has been, in print. Of course when anything new comes out I usually order it in advance or buy it the day of publication, but the focus of the hunt is usually on books that are way out of print and hard to track down.
I would have thought the idea of "hard to track down" books has been obliterated by Abebooks or Alibris! they have nearly everything. However, they're all scalpers - so maybe it's still worth looking in actual real bookshops...
Goodreads has helped me embrace new authors. I literally re-read 75% of books I've been reading since college for the last 15 years but I've finally broken out of that habit. I definitely have friends on goodreads that I pay attention to when they are reading and liking a certain book. I haven't re-read a book in two years, and that's saying something!
The way I read... not really. It's changed the way that I announce to the world what I've just read. :) Although GR has been great for keeping my "want to read" list under control, and makes it really easy to add a book once I've seen a good review. GR has also changed the way I think about a book after I finish it-- I process a lot faster now so that I can write a decent review (although so far, I haven't developed that skill very far).
Velvetink wrote:I felt like that till I found a 2nd hand store that sells books by the bag load..."
I. Love. Those.
I agree with everyone else in the sense that yes, it has opened me up to a zillion more books and I have a community of people who actually want to discuss books and obssess over them like I do. This is very exciting because I don't really have this in real life!But I haven't seen anyone mention (I did start to skim the comments a little) another way I feel Goodreads has changed my reading...it makes me doubt my own opinion!! I've rated a bunch of books since recently joining. Sometimes when I have books I really love getting low ratings and reviews (from members who seem well-read and articulate) it makes feel well, a little, out-of-it. What did I miss tht was so awful? And the same goes for the reverse situation. I almost feel stupid. I know that's silly but I guess there is this feeling of wanting to belong and if I think their reviews and favorite books are interesting, I don't want them to see me as some idiot because of some very different opinions. I realize this sounds very self conscious, maybe because I just joined. But then, this is a good thing because if I did like or dislike a book and that seems to go against the grain, I now need to learn to articulate my case better and really analyze the book, which I think is fun. But really....am I the only one who will read a smart, funny review that is totally opposite to their opinion of the book and thinks, "Oh, I must be wrong". Simply because they've proved their point so well, it makes me question my feelings about the book! Which although I do want to be a little less unsure, I think is ultimately a good thing and will make us all better readers.
I know I'm rambling but this also kind of goes with point. I find it so hard to rate books. I think it is totally two different things to rate a book based on your enjoyment of it versus the actual literary merit and skill of the writing. Sometimes I enjoy books I know to be total crap, and sometimes I find it hard to get into some classics but clearly I can see the value in those. Does anyone else feel conflicted when rating a book? Do you rate on enjoyment, or I guess I will say sheer talent/skill? For example, I love the book I am Charlotte Simmons, by Tom Wolfe. I gave it five stars, but it gets ripped to shreds on here because the author is out of touch and uses stereotypes (among other issues people have with his writing). I totally see that but I looooved reading the book. I could read his ridiculous descriptions forever but I can see that he could've made better choices....but ahhh does that matter if you couldn't stop reading? Sorry this is so long, thoughts anyone?
I think the number of stars reflects our enjoyment of a given book, so 5 stars from you makes sense on that particular book.That said, it's also true that everyone uses the star rating a little differently, sometimes explaining their system on their profile page.
The beauty here is that a book does receive such a wide range of reactions, and the point is simply to explain in your review why your reaction was what it was.
@Megan,My advice: Learning from other's opinions is a good thing, feeling "stupid" or "out of it" is another. I learned the hard way, I will rob myself of enjoyment if I overthink those ratings/reviews. Here is what I've learned so far.
1. Ratings - Ratings are very subjective and 3 is technically not the center. Technically, giving a "1" means it was ok and "3" means "Really liked it" but not everyone rates like that. I suspect most people rate 3 as so-so with the degree they like/dislike the book deciding how far from 3 they go. Lack of consistency renders the numbers somewhat meaningless but people love doing it so it is a necessary evil. Isn't realistic for a book for entertainment, a children's picture book, and a book for information to be rated on the exact same criteria anyway.
2. Opinions opposite of your own - Never forget you are the expert when it comes to your taste. Life would be horribly boring if we all liked the same thing. Take what you can of value from their opinion, ignore the rest. Mob rule, popularity, and group-think aren't always right, sometimes I am.
3.Wanting to belong - Understandable, most people feel that way, even if they don't say it aloud. One thing I do is regularly look at others who review the books I have on my list. (Click Explore, books, scroll down to bottom and click "Recent reviews of my books"). I click "Like" on those that make good points about the book in a responsible way, whether they agree with me or not. I don't read all reviews (especially book report style ones), but it helps me feel more connected to people as I start seeing the same names.
4. Writing Reviews - Practice will make all the difference. What reviews really help **you** find enjoyable reads and get more out the book? Emulate those as you develop your own style. Don't forget to click Like when the review helps you in some way. It encourages others and you might make a friend!
Hope this helps.
Megan, I think when your opinions differ from the crowd, that is a good thing. I often feel that "what am I missing" feeling as well, but don't give in to the easy conclusion of "I must be wrong"."what am I missing" = there are other perspectives that are equally valid, and isn't it interesting that these people appreciated this aspect (or did not like this aspect) when I disliked/liked that same aspect?
"I must be wrong" = unhelpful, since there are no wrong opinions.
I do like it when other people's opinions make me re-think my opinion, but it's a balancing act. If I didn't enjoy it, I'm not going to change my opinion just because others enjoyed it. At the same time, their opinions might provide insight on a different way of enjoying the book. Maybe I went in with the wrong expectations? Maybe this genre just doesn't do it for me in general? etc.
Megan,Reviews make me doubt my opinion too and I've been on goodreads for years. I get antsy when I read a book that is a friend's favorite or they read one of mine that there will be weirdness when we disagree. I'll even admit that I've been kinder on my star ratings a time or two than I would otherwise because of it (but only by a star; I'll justify 3 stars for a 2-star read but not more). When I read The Boy With the Striped Pajamas I had friends that hated it and friends that loved it and it stressed me out to rate the book. I could see both passions and considering both sides averaged it out to 3 stars for me. (Cheryl, I don't see how 1 star is "ok" and 3 stars "really like it". That doesn't leave room for disliking a book and splits the books you love between 4 and 5 stars, skewing the ratings even more favorable than the suggested I star "didn't like it" and 3 stars "liked it" that I try to abide by).
Sometimes I'm not sure what to rate a book either. There's so much that goes into a "good" read, both enjoyability and literary merit as you mentioned. I think of it as a score card and you balance out all the aspects to a certain rating. For ex, I ended up giving Twilight 4 stars because I did enjoy it despite laughing at myself for it. Horrible writing and messages and plot holes, but she's a great story teller and I can see why people get obsessed with it so that skill carried more weight and brought up the four stars. That's what the review is for, to explain how you came to your star rating and why. I probably think about my ratings way too much :).
Hi Cheryl -"Technically, giving a "1" means it was ok "
I can't agree with that since then you'd have no option if you really hated a book. 1 star ratings are used for people's most distressing book experiences, in general, I think! And 1 star reviews are a lot of fun.
Megan, I try not to let my opinion be swayed by the fact that many other people feel differently from me. It's hard at times, but as one savvy poster said, you are the expert on your own tastes. I try to keep that in mind. I don't care for most literary fiction, and it's not because I don't like to think. I just don't care to spend my time on what is offered in this genre. I like escapism. I like reading for enjoyment, and that's where I focus my energies. I pay attention to my friends' ratings and moreso, their reviews, because that tells me so much more. I have friends that I am 100% guaranteed that we will disagree on books, but that's okay. The world is full of variety and it would be boring otherwise. My rating system is as follows:
5 stars: I loved this book!
4 stars: I really enjoyed this book but I wouldn't marry it.
3 stars: It was okay, and I was kind of disappointed with it.
2 stars: I did not like/enjoy this book. I wouldn't read it again. I was massively underwhelmed/disappointed.
1 stars: I hated this book. It was a disturbing experience, and I want my time spent on this book back.
I have to remind myself that 3 stars is a good rating to some of my friends. I used to be disappointed when I would see that friends would rate books I loved as three stars, but I came to realize that 3 stars is a good rating to some. I have friends who rate books very similarly to me, and I've learned to interpret their ratings pretty well. With those friends, I probably wouldn't buy/read a book they gave 3 stars, and certainly not less, unless I really wanted to for my own reasons.
Thanks everyone for the feedback! I've really enjoyed each of your thoughtful responses. Good to know I am not alone in over-analyzing everything. I think I have a better grasp on how I will rate things from now on and interesting to see everyone's system. I see that it really has to completely differ from book to book and what I want to get out of that specific experience. Thanks again!! :)
I wouldn't say Goodreads has changed HOW I read, but it has certainly impaced WHAT I read. The more friends I find myself following, the more books I find myself discovering that either would never have jumped out at me in the local Chapters, or simply would never be physically stocked there.
@ Megan, thanks being brave and bringing up the issue, it has been interesting.
5: a perfect novel4: an excellent novel. i'd read it again.
3: a good novel. lots of great parts. far from perfect.
2: a fair novel. some interesting parts. overall, probably forgettable in the long run.
1: a poor novel. wouldn't read it again. or maybe so awful, i would.
mark wrote: "5: a perfect novel4: an excellent novel. i'd read it again.
3: a good novel. lots of great parts. far from perfect.
2: a fair novel. some interesting parts. overall, probably forgettable ..."
Yes, but what makes a novel perfect or excellent?? Those adjectives could go a lot of different ways...
it is an entirely subjective version of perfection or excellence, of course. but one i try to be objective about it!
if not objective, at least consistent--;-)
"consistent" is probably the better word to use in my original sentence, objectively speaking.
short answer - yes.GR has definetly changed the reading experience for me. Books used to make me feel good. Now they really have an experience where I read a book so that I can interact with others. I read more slowly an consider my opinion of the book so that I can write a well-written review and add well-thought comments to other reviews.
I have also noticed that I am less satisfied reading something that I consider sub-par. I find myself analysing what I think is wrong with the book, again so that I can write a good review and compare that review with others.
I have also found myself reading books that I would not normally have read, books that are very much outside of my usual genra choices. I definetly respond to a book with more interest if a friend has reviewed it favourably.
Cass wrote: "Books used to make me feel good"HAHA. You're like a walking anti-advertisement for GoodReads ;).
